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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

New ALM - 'SID GUTS' - SID Chip based module
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules  
Author New ALM - 'SID GUTS' - SID Chip based module
ALM
ALM are pleased to announce ALM003 - the 'SID GUTS'. Here is the info (pretty much all ripped from the web page);



"The MOS Technology 6581/8580 ‘Sound Interface Device’ chip, aka the ‘SID’, was the sound generator chip used in the Commodore 64 home computer – the greatest selling home computer of all time. The SID, by the means of 3 wavetable oscillators, a real analogue multi mode filter, an ADSR and various cross modulation options, provided the soundtrack to a generations gaming and perhaps many peoples first exposure to real sound synthesis. The SID’s unique musical aesthetic has lasted well beyond the lifetime of the C64 re-imagined in standalone products such as the SID Station and with in the computer via sophisticated software emulation.

The SID GUTS now takes the legendary SID chip and tailors it into the eurorack modular environment. By use of a real SID chip the classic sound is taken in a new direction with the levels of direct and voltage control only a modular system can offer.

The SID GUTS provides a single ‘SID Voice’ to your modular. The charm and authenticity of the original sound is preserved with no attempt to ‘clean’ or reduce noise in the SID audio output."

The SID GUTS supports to following SID chip features via modular control;

-1volt per octave control of a ‘core’ SID oscillator 0-5v input (with tunable offset covering 8 octaves in total)
-Direct and voltage control of oscillator wave shape selection (Pulse, Triangle, Square, Saw).
-Filter switchable between 4 modes - 12dB/Octave HP , LP , BP & Notch (HP+LP).
-Direct and Voltage control (with offset) of Filter cutoff and Resonance.
-1 volt per octave control of second SID ‘modulation’ oscillator.
-Direct and voltage control of modulation oscillator ‘type’; ring modulation, sync or none.
-Direct and voltage control of pulse wave pulse width.
-External audio input.

The SID GUTS does not support the following SID features;

-Remaining 3rd oscillator (Inflexibility due to shared output and impact on module size+cost.)
-ADSR (its buggy and pretty rubbish really.)

Other features include;

-Support for ALL SID chips (6851/8580) & SwinSID chips.
-All settings non volatile.
-Audio output and input at modular levels.
-Designed and built in England.

Technical Specifications

Supply: +/-12V (Reverse voltage protection)
Current Draw: ~50 - 200ma (dependent on SID chip used)
Size: 12 HP
Depth: 30-40 mm (with heat sinks installed)

Please note vintage SIDs are a very old technology - they run pretty hot and pull a lot of current. You want a case with plenty of airflow and available power. I recommend the use of SwinSID's to avoid such issues!

Video



Availability

There is an initial factory built run of just 50 modules available in next few weeks. THESE DO NOT INCLUDE A SID CHIP, SIDs must be user supplied !!! SIDs are easily inserted on the rear of the module. Expect retail pricing on these 50 to be around 300 GBP each.

This 'early bird' release will then be followed in the future by a Thonk DIY kit release with all related material open sourced. The module was intended as DIY - it is all through hole and built from readily available parts. Pricing on this will be decided nearer the time.

EDIT:

Draft manual: http://busycircuits.com/docs/ALM003-manual-draft.pdf

More stuff inc soundcloud demos: http://busycircuits.com/alm003
kdjupdal
Nice feature set.
Can you also stack the oscillators to make a two-oscillator voice?
jbartee
Awesome! Is the initial run of 50 going to be available via distributors or are you selling direct? If direct, how / when can we reserve or pre-order one?
crookedtapes
you made my day.

Can I preorder ?
xonetacular
Very cool looking and clean module. Sounds good too.
ALM
I dont plan on selling direct but if people want to pre-order then PM (or better email) me and lets see if we can figure something out. Thanks!
DSC
Tasty! love
waveglider
Real nice implementation of the SID on this. applause
I might have to put my SidStation up for sale to buy one or two of these!
Monobass
its so awesome to have that PWM in a modular...
Hainbach
Ohhhh, I still have an old C64 at my parents. How would I get about removing the SID? Is it difficult?
waveglider
All you need is a philips screwdriver to open it up and remove the RF shield.
The chips are all socketed so easy to pry up and out of the motherboard.
Hainbach
And would a Doepfer P9 be cool with the module? My C64 is an older brown model.
jbartee
waveglider wrote:
All you need is a philips screwdriver to open it up and remove the RF shield.
The chips are all socketed so easy to pry up and out of the motherboard.


For the actual chip removal, I'd also highly recommend an IC extraction tool. They only cost like $5.00, can usually be found at radio shack, and are a lot less error prone than wiggling a chip out with a flathead, especially on larger chips like the SID.
mckenic
applause

Exciting times!!!
Kudos too for doing a DIY release although the factory run is too good looking to ignore!
burnn_out!
A little pricey considering the voice has to be sourced but I'll take the bait
Nullsleep
Been looking forward to getting my hands on one of these ever since I saw it demo'd at Control back in April. The time has come twisted
mckenic
burnn_out! wrote:
A little pricey considering the voice has to be sourced but I'll take the bait


I don't know really... no final fixed price yet but even so, there is nothing like this around AFAIK. The only other things I could think of that would be similar would be the SN Voice or the rare as hens teeth Pokey.Synth.

Just my opinion (and Im broke!) tho!
desdinova
Hoping ~300UKP ends up ~300USD, not 450+. Want two but getting at least one. Between this and Pam, ALM is eating up all my fun bucks. It's motherfucking bacon yo
burnn_out!
mckenic wrote:
burnn_out! wrote:
A little pricey considering the voice has to be sourced but I'll take the bait


I don't know really... no final fixed price yet but even so, there is nothing like this around AFAIK. The only other things I could think of that would be similar would be the SN Voice or the rare as hens teeth Pokey.Synth.

Just my opinion (and Im broke!) tho!


Mutable edges. I'm still going for it. Already bought the 6581 chip. Man I'm a sucker for lofi chiptune sounds( I own edges and a translatron) Dead Banana
mckenic
I kinda know what you mean - I want two also!!!

But if it were $300 (approx £191) everyone would buy em from the US....
mckenic
Yeah I need a Translatron & Edges soon too!
What a BRILLIANT time to be in to this stuff!!!

It's peanut butter jelly time!
anselmi
errr...initially I was very excited to finally somebody make a SID module but after hear the results I think that although it sounds good it lacks a lot of the SID personality...I mean the most characteristic stuff...it sounds more or less like a more standard oscillator

I don´t saying it can´t sound like one expect a SID sound but maybe you have to add too much extra stuff to get the classic arpeggiation trills and stuff like that

the noise sounds authentic but one can get close even with the MFB dual LFO S&H out clocked at audio rate

maybe I´m missing the point on this, and the purpose of this module is not recreate the classic SID personality in euro but use its synth engine as a different texture...I dunno seriously, i just don't get it
jonne74
As soon as I heard the noise, it brought me back to pretty much every game I ever played on the 64. Lovely.
Monobass
anselmi wrote:
errr...initially I was very excited to finally somebody make a SID module but after hear the results I think that although it sounds good it lacks a lot of the SID personality...I mean the most characteristic stuff...it sounds more or less like a more standard oscillator

I don´t saying it can´t sound like one expect a SID sound but maybe you have to add too much extra stuff to get the classic arpeggiation trills and stuff like that


Nah you really don't at all, I was really surprised how little you need to do to get there. You have to remember that the arpeggiation trills etc never were part of the chip, rather the character comes from the way the chip responded to that type of CV.. and this responds in the same way in how it chews through it. Remember that programming resources for actually sequencing the thing were always limited in the first place. So i found it really can't help but do its thing even if you're just throwing fast but smooth wild lfos at it, that crazy stepped arpeggiation that's so distinctive just flies out. I think its perhaps as much to do with limitations in the baud rate that the SID will happily accept being addressed... as the actual sound engine. The previous demos posted show that better than the new video.
phono1337
Can't wait thumbs up
vurma
Oh that wonderful PWM! I just sold my breadbox + mssiah to see this wonderful creation! Horray!
tiny333
This is not a post
ALM
anselmi wrote:
errr...initially I was very excited to finally somebody make a SID module but after hear the results I think that although it sounds good it lacks a lot of the SID personality...I mean the most characteristic stuff...it sounds more or less like a more standard oscillator


Really? seriously, i just don't get it Even the PWM ? the noise ? and the ring mod and sync sound are very unique to the SID.

anselmi wrote:

I don´t saying it can´t sound like one expect a SID sound but maybe you have to add too much extra stuff to get the classic arpeggiation trills and stuff like that


Basic appeggiation trill will an LFO, drum hits quickly sequencing the wave shape etc. Its more fun than hard trying to create 'classic' sounds.

The demos on soundclound are maybe more classic sounding. The vimeo demo is intentionally a basic vanilla feature overview and definitely does not show off the modulation oscillator enough which can sound fantastic.

anselmi wrote:

the noise sounds authentic but one can get close even with the MFB dual LFO S&H out clocked at audio rate


The GUTS pretty much exists because I originally wanted the SID noise sound. Im sure, the MFB, like also the A117 comes close but its still not right, too clean.... there is something about the SID noise.

anselmi wrote:

maybe I´m missing the point on this, and the purpose of this module is not recreate the classic SID personality in euro but use its synth engine as a different texture...I dunno seriously, i just don't get it


You can create the classic SID sound if you want but you can also take it in a completely different direction once part of a modular. That was more the really interesting thing for me and the motivation for spending the time getting the GUTS figured out.
zap32
I like the design.
BuxtonTheEvilBlueCat
So happy to see this! I saw you demo this at Brighton modular meet earlier this (?) year and was psyched to get one. Looks and sounds brilliant. Got two 6581s ready for action once the kits are out.
jgb
Just one oscillator out? Even though a second oscillator can be used for modulation, it cannot be output? No selecting more than one waveform mode (additional waveforms can be created by this)? Not being able to do sync+ringmod at the same time?

I am afraid that this limits the usability of this module for me, I had hoped for three oscillator fatness including the possibility to make basic chords. :(

Sorry to sound like an old whiny man, but the missing features are too much for me.
ALM
As mentioned, the multiple oscillator thing isn't so great once you realize they all go have to through a shared output and the further impact on module complexity, size, cost etc. And please keep in mind the SID GUTS is part of a *modular system* after all..

Multiple waveform mixing doesn't work well on all SIDs and for what you actually get its not worth the pain imho in well supporting this both h/w and UI wise.

Sync+Ringmod could be added to the firmware but again iirc it didn't give much at all. I will re investigate though, its not too late to add in.

Also feel free to mod the DIY kit once available to cover every specific SID itch you have old man wink
jgb
Well, three pwmd squares through the SID-filter... which starts to overload slighthly. Yummy! Or just a "Sidimoog/Minisid" sound. smile Too many fond memories of such sounds through an old TV at a volume loud enough to get parents banging on my door... hihi

But I fully understand that in order to get this done in a reasonable amount of time + limiting the costs somewhere the line must be drawn. Had I been a SW/HW-hacker I would have considered modding the DIY kit, but since I am not that... oh well.

Damn, I feel like this you kids get off my lawn when I really should be applause applause applause your effort!
dude
this project is so cool. unreal!
neilbaldwin
ALM wrote:
the multiple oscillator thing isn't so great


woah

ALM wrote:
Multiple waveform mixing doesn't work well on all SIDs and for what you actually get its not worth the pain


woah

ALM wrote:
Sync+Ringmod ... but again iirc it didn't give much at all


Dead Banana
woodster
Most definitely in for a Thonk kit when they happen.
I briefly got to see it at the Brighton Maker fair last week, but didn't really get to hear it in action.
Monobass
ALM wrote:
Also feel free to mod the DIY kit once available to cover every specific SID itch you have old man wink


That's the main point here, what's awesome is that after this initial run....

ALM wrote:
This 'early bird' release will then be followed in the future by a Thonk DIY kit release with all related material open sourced. The module was intended as DIY - it is all through hole and built from readily available parts. Pricing on this will be decided nearer the time.


So there's nothing to stop this growing/mutating. Looks like neilbaldwin already volunteered so round of applause everybody applause

Crazy amount of effort from ALM to get it this far and sounding great, and he's open sourcing it we're not worthy
jonne74
First SID arrived in mail. It says MOS 6581 2383 and Korea AH205701 on the belly side. I hope it's real and working! I have no idea if it's just a fridge magnet.

I hope Bruce Lee, Ninja and Sumo are watching over me.
pxlsndworlock
Man I'd love to see this used with the pokey synth.
Monobass
jonne74 wrote:
First SID arrived in mail. It says MOS 6581 2383 and Korea AH205701 on the belly side. I hope it's real and working! I have no idea if it's just a fridge magnet.

I hope Bruce Lee, Ninja and Sumo are watching over me.


I'm going for Wizball, Gribbly Grobbly and Crazy Comets hihi
Monobass
it's worth noting there are a lot of C64s on ebay still too. So you don't have to just buy a bare chip and pray, you can also buy the computer and try and load a game and see if it makes any noise wink
Isaiah
This sounds great!

Maybe I missed it, but there doesn't appear to be any manual control of oscillator frequencies, is that right?
So, any tuning would have to be accomplished by adding a DC offset to the 1V/Oct CV, correct?

Is the Modulation Osc off/inaudible until one of its modes is activated?
Is its 1V/Oct input normalled to follow the main oscillator when a cable isn't inserted?

Will the DIY PCB have mounting holes, or is it secured by PCB-mounted components?
I'm thinking a few of these would be interesting in Serge format.
Some of us don't speak Euro, so any chance of translation would be very much appreciated hihi
Any rough idea of the cost of the kit?

Cheers!
Isaiah
Double post.
Monobass
Isaiah wrote:
Any rough idea of the cost of the kit?


Nah not yet, the kits will be nearer to Xmas.
ALM
Isaiah wrote:

Maybe I missed it, but there doesn't appear to be any manual control of oscillator frequencies, is that right?
So, any tuning would have to be accomplished by adding a DC offset to the 1V/Oct CV, correct?


The 1V/Oct input has a 0-5v range. You can manually offset this to tune & cover the full 8 octave range. This is done via the front buttons which is explained in the soon to be released manual.

Isaiah wrote:

Is the Modulation Osc off/inaudible until one of its modes is activated?


Its always inaudible - it modulates the first oscillator.

Isaiah wrote:

Is its 1V/Oct input normalled to follow the main oscillator when a cable isn't inserted?


Nope.

Isaiah wrote:

Will the DIY PCB have mounting holes, or is it secured by PCB-mounted components?
I'm thinking a few of these would be interesting in Serge format.
Some of us don't speak Euro, so any chance of translation would be very much appreciated hihi


All PCB mounted controls.

When design files are released you can always re-layout for another format.

Isaiah wrote:

Any rough idea of the cost of the kit?


Not yet.
Isaiah
Ah! Thanks for the informative reply, and for making it open-source!
oberkorn
will the audio in work if using SwinSIDs? as far as I know they do not support this. maybe I'm wrong though.
Fortunately I have some salvaged real SIDs around from that MidiBox SID machine I never seem to find time to build w00t
ALM
Correct, external input wont work with a SwinSID.

This is also covered in the manual (but need to be mentioned elsewhere!)

I've now uploaded a *DRAFT* copy of the manual to;
http://busycircuits.com/docs/ALM003-manual-draft.pdf

It should help answer more questions.
NS4W
Could you please re-link to the sound cloud demos?
Your design is very good and consistent applause
sync24
Yo,
not read through this thread yet, i will asap.
but here's a quick vid of me messing about gettin some acid out of a proto SIDGUTS in conjunction with a couple of other modules thumbs up
cheers ALM!!!
Monobass
NS4W wrote:
Could you please re-link to the sound cloud demos?
Your design is very good and consistent applause


here's the one I did

[s]http://soundcloud.com/thonksynth/alm-sid-eurorack-module[/s]
Monobass
and the ALM ones

[s]http://soundcloud.com/alm-busy-circuits/sid-guts-001[/s]

[s]http://soundcloud.com/alm-busy-circuits/sid-guts-002[/s]
XAXAU
Great job! Still stuck in the Last Ninja mode! w00t

Personally, I´d ditch the filter to make room for more SID VCO options (the filter sounds great though) or make the module bigger!

You´ll sell a lot more modules if you make them full of options. Right now it sounds great but it´s missing too much of the SID goodness!
ALM
OK Thanks for the advice Dad.
Soy Sos
Jeeez, I don't see what the hell people are complaining about.
This thing sounds sick as hell. If you don't like it, design your own module.
Monobass
Soy Sos wrote:
Jeeez, I don't see what the hell people are complaining about.
This thing sounds sick as hell. If you don't like it, design your own module.


and for once the developer is going to give you the power to do it, so step up!
jbartee
As a longtime SID obsessive, thought I'd chime in on the 1 vs 3 osc issue.

Stacking oscillators can produce some wonderfully fat voices but it really works best if you disengage the filter entirely. Overdriving the filter with multiple oscillators can produce some very interesting special effects, but it's actually pretty limited. I think the SID GUTS decision to omit forwarding of the other oscillators to the filter / output is a pretty good decision considering how much extra space you'd need to select waveform, pitch, and enable/disable for two more oscillators.

SID GUTS is actually infinitely scalable in this regard too, since nothing is stopping you from mixing 3 (or more) of them together through your mixer of choice and then feeding that through a master SID GUTS' external in (to mimic the 3 osc -->1 filter design of the SID) or outputing each individually with 1 filter per osc, a much more flexible design than the original SID architecture and, when coupled with certain upcoming modular polyphony solutions, should allow for the creation of the first truly polyphonic SID instrument ever. (Yeah, midibox has a poly mode, but is still extremely limited by the osc/filter signal flow).
ALM
YES! we're not worthy
Nullsleep
If you want to squeeze every last bit of potential out of the SID chip, then you should probably be running a tracker on a C64.

If you want to incorporate some of that unmistakable SID sound into a modular system, and make use of the advantages that CV control affords, then this looks pretty killer. On first impression, I'd say it strikes a good balance by keeping the module small and faceplate cleanly layed out, while focusing on the more characteristic aspects of the SID -- that is, the nature of the oscillator, PWM and its filter.

And the fact that it will be open sourced after the initial run is very nice (and generous) touch. Rawk!
Monobass
Precisely the conclusion I came to jbartee, although I did give ALM plenty of devils advocacy that resembles a lot of stuff in this thread! but it didn't take me long to see the light, this is the most forward thinking approach I think.
sync24
still having fun with it -
another quick shitty-quality iPhone video:
jbartee
moar videos plz. I'm salivating over here.
sync24
thx!
i'll try and fiddle about with it again tomorrow... Dead Banana
grex
whoa this sounds pretty crazy!
el clon
Thanks for the new videos! This thing will have to fight it out with my POKEY for the heavyweight title. Rockin' Banana!
el clon
jonne74 wrote:
I hope Bruce Lee, Ninja and Sumo are watching over me.


Bruce Lee!!! I forgot all about that game! nanners
burnn_out!
So if I use a 6581 the draw is 200ma correct? Is that the same for the 8580 too? I guessing from the manual that these run too hot to be placed it a station 252 or gorillabox travel case as well. Is that right? Because neither really offer any sort of ventilation. I really want one and bought the 6581 chip but I might have to bow out if this the case. The draw and heat factors worry me..
Nullsleep
From the manual ...

Current Draw: ~50-200ma (up to 200ma with 6581/8580 SID chip installed)

So, yeah, sounds like 200ma for either of the original SID chips and probably 50ma if you're using the SwinSID.
el clon
burnn_out! wrote:
So if I use a 6581 the draw is 200ma correct? Is that the same for the 8580 too? I guessing from the manual that these run too hot to be placed it a station 252 or gorillabox travel case as well. Is that right? Because neither really offer any sort of ventilation. I really want one and bought the 6581 chip but I might have to bow out if this the case. The draw and heat factors worry me..


Come to think of it, what kind of Euro case would have proper ventilation? I have a Monorocket Lexington and a 6u Goike boat and neither of those have any ventilation. Aren't most, if not all cases, pretty closed up?
Waveformbakery
Loved the demo, sounds so "clean" smile.
vurma
el clon wrote:
burnn_out! wrote:
So if I use a 6581 the draw is 200ma correct? Is that the same for the 8580 too? I guessing from the manual that these run too hot to be placed it a station 252 or gorillabox travel case as well. Is that right? Because neither really offer any sort of ventilation. I really want one and bought the 6581 chip but I might have to bow out if this the case. The draw and heat factors worry me..


Come to think of it, what kind of Euro case would have proper ventilation? I have a Monorocket Lexington and a 6u Goike boat and neither of those have any ventilation. Aren't most, if not all cases, pretty closed up?


Some temperature data to go with the statement of possible overheating wouldnt hurt, right?
3M-10
I'm definitely in for the kit.
jgb
Nullsleep wrote:
And the fact that it will be open sourced after the initial run is very nice (and generous) touch. Rawk!


Truly agree! I was not expecting this, and am really happy about it. An expander or similar will probably surface quite soon. smile
rockwoofstone
Probably obvious, but I thought it worth checking; will the kit be exactly the same as the pre-built module, including panel?
bartleby
nice. looking forward to the kit.
SPIKE the Percussionist
Would go great with my two Ataraxic Translatrons!!
ALM
rockwoofstone wrote:
Probably obvious, but I thought it worth checking; will the kit be exactly the same as the pre-built module, including panel?


Dont expect any functional/feature changes. Maybe minor cosmetic ones.
ALM
vurma wrote:

Some temperature data to go with the statement of possible overheating wouldnt hurt, right?


Temperature data ? Overheating statement ?

I cant predict how a random 30 year old SID chip is going to behave and there is variance in how they do. They do generally run hot and they pull alot of current (thus also warming up the on board regulator(s)). Giving that heat somewhere to efficiently escape surely is a sensible and cautious thing to do, thus the advice & warnings in the manual.
Kakihara
great job! it's been many years I've been fancying to see something like that happen grin
kdjupdal
Remember, there are several revisions of the SID chip, and they all sound different. Few years ago I bought off ebay the revision which is supposed to be "best" (that is, clean sounding). Think it is R4.
Limey
jbartee wrote:
As a longtime SID obsessive, thought I'd chime in on the 1 vs 3 osc issue.

Stacking oscillators can produce some wonderfully fat voices but it really works best if you disengage the filter entirely. Overdriving the filter with multiple oscillators can produce some very interesting special effects, but it's actually pretty limited. I think the SID GUTS decision to omit forwarding of the other oscillators to the filter / output is a pretty good decision considering how much extra space you'd need to select waveform, pitch, and enable/disable for two more oscillators.

SID GUTS is actually infinitely scalable in this regard too, since nothing is stopping you from mixing 3 (or more) of them together through your mixer of choice and then feeding that through a master SID GUTS' external in (to mimic the 3 osc -->1 filter design of the SID) or outputing each individually with 1 filter per osc, a much more flexible design than the original SID architecture and, when coupled with certain upcoming modular polyphony solutions, should allow for the creation of the first truly polyphonic SID instrument ever. (Yeah, midibox has a poly mode, but is still extremely limited by the osc/filter signal flow).

+1 on what he said.
to stack voices or make chiptunes there are other devices more suitable for that. This one is for CV and i almost cant wait to hook it up with A152 and some bitcrushed LFOs.
start moving on that preorderlist Mr.ALM MY ASS IS BLEEDING SlayerBadger!
rockwoofstone
ALM wrote:
rockwoofstone wrote:
Probably obvious, but I thought it worth checking; will the kit be exactly the same as the pre-built module, including panel?


Dont expect any functional/feature changes. Maybe minor cosmetic ones.


Understood. I think I'll u-turn on my previous decision just in case - I like it as it is hihi , so I'll go for a pre-built model. I'll email you to confirm. thumbs up
bartleby
ALM wrote:
This 'early bird' release will then be followed in the future by a Thonk DIY kit release with all related material open sourced. [...] Pricing on this will be decided nearer the time.

could you give us a very rough idea of your time frame here? are we talking this year or next?
also, will these be full kits, or will there be a budget-friendly pcb+panel-only version?
Monobass
End of this year hopefully, it'll be full kits minus SID chip.
It'll probably be followed some time next year by a Panel + PCB only run too.
joshuagoran
Wow! I am really, really looking forward to this one! Especially excited that it will be a kit/DIY.

SlayerBadger!SlayerBadger!SlayerBadger!SlayerBadger!SlayerBadger!SlayerBadger!SlayerBadger!SlayerBadger!

EDIT: I also have to say that the panel design on this is among my favorites of all!!! It's motherfucking bacon yo
Limey
What model of chip is used in the democlips? 6581 or 8580?
I was thinking about this for a while and came to the conclution that the
8580 would be more suitable for modularwork since it got a more open sound to it. Any thougts on that?
el clon
Just wanted to say thanks for releasing some pre-built modules. I can't build modules and would go crazy if I missed getting one of these.
HeWhoWantsJeans
Monobass wrote:
End of this year hopefully, it'll be full kits minus SID chip.
It'll probably be followed some time next year by a Panel + PCB only run too.

Oh damn, that sounds fantastic. I have a few C64's sitting 'round that I'd be happy to pull a chip out of. hihi
cane creek
I'm looking at a SID chip at the moment 6581/4982 does that sound right ? I assumed the last 2 digits are the year of production ? 82 ? According to Wiki the chip was patented in 1983 ?
rockwoofstone
There's always the possibility that you may be looking at a fake or dubious SID - best bet is to do some detective work on the labelling, and decide for yourself whether you trust the providence of the source.

A good article here on some fake/dubious SIDs:

http://kevtris.org/Projects/sid/remarked_sids.html
rockwoofstone
If you can't find anyone reporting that this exact number is a fake or from a duff batch, then there's a reasonable chance you'll be OK. I did a quick search, and nothing jumped out with this marking, so you may be OK.
cane creek
Yes I read that article before posting, No mention of 4982 in there.

Wish I still had my commodore 64 but have no idea what happened to it, still got my Vic 20 but no SIDS in there lol
Nullsleep
The second number is in the format: xxyy

Where yy: year of production (as you guessed correctly)
And xx: the week of that year during which it was produced.
Vcoadsr
I'm now proud owner of a C64, with joystick, tape deck, power supply and a copy of 'the way of the exploding fist' all for £36.01 of eBay. Seems a shame to butcher it to get the SID chip - like a scene out of 2001 "Dave, my SID is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My SID is going. There is no question about it. I can feel it."

Looking forward to the module, will give me a new & interesting sound source.
skee
Replace it with a swinsid!
http://www.sinchai.de/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&product s_id=90
jonne74
Any news on this module?

I've got two SID chips now. Just waiting.
skee
Oops! Seems like it may be out of stock at the moment.
el clon
jonne74 wrote:
Any news on this module?

I've got two SID chips now. Just waiting.


They're doing preorders at Analogie Haven now, but I'm not sure about in Europe. AH is expecting the around mid-October.
el clon
Vcoadsr wrote:
I'm now proud owner of a C64, with joystick, tape deck, power supply and a copy of 'the way of the exploding fist' all for £36.01 of eBay. Seems a shame to butcher it to get the SID chip - like a scene out of 2001 "Dave, my SID is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My SID is going. There is no question about it. I can feel it."


Kinda makes me sad when you put it like that.... waah
Poor little Commodore.
cane creek
Asked about on Facebook and a guy a mile away offered me a Commodore 64 for £10.
I didn't realise how big the SID chips were.....


sync24
aye, it's a big fella!
cane creek
Are any of the other chips in the C64 of any use in modular land ?
ALM
jonne74 wrote:
Any news on this module?


Some delays at the factory - likely to land around mid October now.
HeWhoWantsJeans
Nullsleep wrote:
From the manual ...

Current Draw: ~50-200ma (up to 200ma with 6581/8580 SID chip installed)

So, yeah, sounds like 200ma for either of the original SID chips and probably 50ma if you're using the SwinSID.

Wow. I'm pretty tempted to snatch up a SwinSID for this, then.
bartleby
HeWhoWantsJeans wrote:

Wow. I'm pretty tempted to snatch up a SwinSID for this, then.

if you find a source for them, let us know.
ALM
Check

http://www.sinchai.de/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=90

For SwinSIDs - they are supposedly getting more stock this week.
bartleby
ALM wrote:
Check

http://www.sinchai.de/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=90

For SwinSIDs - they are supposedly getting more stock this week.

really? i emailed them weeks ago and never got a reply, so it thought they might have gone out of business...
ALM
They had some stock last week which went really quickly and I finally got a response to an email which noted more stock this week (also see front page of site via google translate).

Call them maybe ?
jonne74
ALM wrote:
jonne74 wrote:
Any news on this module?


Some delays at the factory - likely to land around mid October now.


It wouldn't be eurorack if there weren't delays at the factory. Thanks for the update w00t
bartleby
ALM wrote:
They had some stock last week which went really quickly

ah i see, will keep my eyes open.
i do have a bunch of real sids here, but i'd love being able to compare them to the swinsid, which seems to be much more power efficient...
ALM wrote:
(also see front page of site via google translate).

no need for google translate, as i'm a native speaker of german. smile
you're right, it does say there are more coming in the next couple of days.
it doesn't give a date when they put that message there, though.
anyway, we'll see.
ALM
bartleby wrote:

no need for google translate, as i'm a native speaker of german. smile


I was hoping so.. call them smile
bartleby
ALM wrote:
I was hoping so.. call them smile

i tried - they aren't answering.
that store is probably just somebody's hobby, so i guess we'll have to be a little patient with them.
phono1337


Sid Guts workout thumbs up
el clon
wow, you already got one Paul!?? damn, i have to start work now and i can't watch the video..... very frustrating thanks for posting!!
el clon
phono1337 wrote:


Sid Guts workout thumbs up


Which chip were you using? Fucking great video, by the way. SlayerBadger!
phono1337
6581 thumbs up
sync24
phono1337 wrote:


Sid Guts workout thumbs up


Top video thumbs up
i need to switch mine on again... Dead Banana
bartleby
ALM wrote:
Check

http://www.sinchai.de/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=90

For SwinSIDs - they are supposedly getting more stock this week.

they are now back in stock. i just ordered a pair.
it says 'only a few in stock' - maybe somebody is building them by hand?

[edit:] whoops - and out of stock again!
Nullsleep
bartleby wrote:
ALM wrote:
Check

http://www.sinchai.de/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=90

For SwinSIDs - they are supposedly getting more stock this week.

they are now back in stock. i just ordered a pair.
it says 'only a few in stock' - maybe somebody is building them by hand?

[edit:] whoops - and out of stock again!


IN STOCK AGAIN!
bartleby
Nullsleep wrote:
IN STOCK AGAIN!

and out again.

'drifting in and out of stock'... hihi
HeWhoWantsJeans
Heh. Back in stock! Just ordered two.

Can't wait for this module to come out. thumbs up
mckenic
Jeez!!! How did I get un-subscribed from this thread!!! very frustrating
Dont forget me ALM!!! we're not worthy

pxlsndworlock wrote:
Man I'd love to see this used with the pokey synth.


I will certainly do my best sir!
SwinSID just ordered (I think - my German is non-existent!)

Woo Hoo!
HeWhoWantsJeans
Mmm. I sure hope this module can run on some SwinSIDs, because two just arrived from Germany for me. hihi
mckenic
Got my SwinSID too despite my shite German language skills!!!
el clon
HeWhoWantsJeans wrote:
Mmm. I sure hope this module can run on some SwinSIDs, because two just arrived from Germany for me. hihi


I'm hoping the same thing. Hoping they can run on the 'real' SIDS I bought on eBay. I've had them for weeks and can't tell if they're real and working until I get the modules.
stega
Guys...

Quote from ALM on page 1...
"Other features include;

-Support for ALL SID chips (6851/8580) & SwinSID chips.
-All settings non volatile.
-Audio output and input at modular levels.
-Designed and built in England."

smile
en c rmato
I had a dream for a SID module!!!!!About a month ago I was making love to my wife donna on top of her........ hihi
HeWhoWantsJeans
stega wrote:
Guys...

Quote from ALM on page 1...
"Other features include;

-Support for ALL SID chips (6851/8580) & SwinSID chips.
-All settings non volatile.
-Audio output and input at modular levels.
-Designed and built in England."

smile

Shit yeah. Gimme a kit today!
Limey
We're ready for you Guts! This is fun!
bartleby
Limey wrote:
We're ready for you Guts!

+1
my swinsids have arrived, too.
so let's have those guts kits! smile
Vcoadsr


Received my SID GUTS yesterday from Matthew at ALM, first impressions are before even plugging it in is that it's built like a tank, really well built, knobs good quality/nice feel. I managed to have a quick 15 minute play last night and the oscillator sounds amazing when the filter is fully open, I need to RTFM to get the most out of this module but so far very happy.
Here's a crappy, shakey, jam I did (I was pretty pissed) last night of the SID GUTS.

http://Instagram.com/p/flHwY0SoC8/?autoplay=true

Many thanks to Matthew for getting me one of these shipped to me so quickly!
el clon
aw, man, i can hardly wait! It's peanut butter jelly time!

thanks for posting the video and photo. drunk or no, that video sounded awesome.
i've got 2 SID Guts on the way from Analogue Haven, traveling just 400 miles up from L.A. to Berkeley.
Shawn said October 15th, so i'm hoping they'll arrive this weekend. i haven't been this anxious waiting for a module in a long time.
phono1337
el clon wrote:
aw, man, i can hardly wait! It's peanut butter jelly time!

thanks for posting the video and photo. drunk or no, that video sounded awesome.
i've got 2 SID Guts on the way from Analogue Haven, traveling just 400 miles up from L.A. to Berkeley.
Shawn said October 15th, so i'm hoping they'll arrive this weekend. i haven't been this anxious waiting for a module in a long time.


you wont be disapointed thumbs up

if i had one bit of advice when usign it, modulate everything hihi you can get some rad rhythmic sounds from it
Monobass
bartleby wrote:
so let's have those guts kits! smile


8_)

bartleby
Monobass wrote:
bartleby wrote:
so let's have those guts kits! smile


8_)


no no no, that's what i already have!
i'm lacking guts, not sids. wink
bartleby
planning to do some 6581 vs 8580 vs swinsid comparisons once i can get my hands on two sid guts kits...

sammy123
are those swinsids ever going to be back in stock?

Monobass, am I to interpret that as thonk will stock them?
stega
bartleby wrote:
planning to do some 6581 vs 8580 vs swinsid comparisons once i can get my hands on two sid guts kits...



very interested in this...
science
Will a 6582 work with this module?
jbartee
science wrote:
Will a 6582 work with this module?


6582 is just a rebranded 8580, so yeah it should work no problem.

In other news, I'm practically salivating over here. Cant wait to fire this thing up and patch some SID-accompanied modular videogames.
mckenic
hihi



thumbs up
science
Perfect. I think I get reminded of that fact about once every 2 years, then forget again immediately after. I've been waiting for someone to do a SID module for a long time.. this is awesome.
nono.dracula
Nice, just picked mine up from Control! we're not worthy

From my first impression of just jamming it in the shop,
wow - the filter on this thing is incredible, all modes are
really well tuned even when using the external input.
The PW is devastating - I can't wait to abuse it!
bartleby
mckenic wrote:


thumbs up

i hope there is enough room behind the sid guts panel to add a '6581/8580' toggle switch for swinsids.
(they have jumper to set which sid you want to emulate)
or you could do a little breakout for that switch, of course.
el clon
phono1337 wrote:

you wont be disapointed thumbs up

if i had one bit of advice when usign it, modulate everything hihi you can get some rad rhythmic sounds from it


i've got two Wogglebugs ready to wuzzle as soon as the Guts arrive! Rockin' Banana!

by the way, does anyone know if there's any place in North America that sells these SwinSIDs?
holovicc
Being a long-time SID programmer i'm interested in enhancing this module. The SID character coming from many other places, and these days it can produce extremely sophisticated sounds, you would not believe (way beyond than these blip-blops). Even, there are more ways to trigger a voice and all sounds different (hard restart alone is an important sid-sensation factor). Wave-scanning-tables are also super important.

I'd like to see what logic this module uses if there was a way to add new features to it later....

But i definietly want to purchase one.
holovicc
I don't see it's available in Europe! (no EU distributors list it). Can someone please give a hint?
rockwoofstone
holovicc wrote:
I don't see it's available in Europe! (no EU distributors list it). Can someone please give a hint?


This is the source:

http://www.sinchai.de/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=90

Out of stock at the moment, but if you keep your eye on it, they restock fairly frequently.
jbartee
holovicc wrote:
Wave-scanning-tables are also super important.


If I understand correctly, this should be possible by driving the wave shape CV-input from a sequencer, assuming it's responsive enough for fast changes. The sequencer becomes the table —so something like the Modcan Touch-Sequencer would allow for very complex and long tables.
HeWhoWantsJeans
I just picked up my parcel from the post with 2x SwinSIDs.

They'll be homeless until the DIY kits come out, tho. I can't wait for the kits to hit Thonk. hyper
cane creek
HeWhoWantsJeans wrote:
I just picked up my parcel from the post with 2x SwinSIDs.

They'll be homeless until the DIY kits come out, tho. I can't wait for the kits to hit Thonk. hyper


I'm also sat here with a SID chip waiting for ALM/Thonk kits Mr. Green
Monobass
met too love
jonne74
I have two SIDs also, and if they both work, maybe a kit will be my first synth DIY project.
stega
Is there a proper orientation for the sids/ swinsids?? I cant find anything in the manual...
mckenic
Appendix 1 of the manual shows it...

stega
To be more clear the swinsid is hard to tell which way is up and down...


I am guessing what is shown above is proper but not sure.
mckenic
PLEASE dont take this as gospel - its just my initial thought.

The SwinSID seems to have a notch on the PCB (Upper left of that photo) that would correspond to the notch in a real SID? TBH, Ive not even unpacked my SwinSID and looked at it yet - waiting for GUTS first hihi
stega
mckenic wrote:
PLEASE dont take this as gospel - its just my initial thought.

The SwinSID seems to have a notch on the PCB (Upper left of that photo) that would correspond to the notch in a real SID? TBH, Ive not even unpacked my SwinSID and looked at it yet - waiting for GUTS first hihi


Yea that makes sense...
ALM
Yes this is correct. Look for the notch at the end if the swinsid and align as in manual.
bartleby
ALM wrote:
Look for the notch at the end if the swinsid and align as in manual.

i'd love to! but i'll need a sid guts kit or two, before i can do that!
hihi
jonne74
Yeah, waiting here too.
woodster
I am also await this DIY Kit with much love
el clon
alas, still awaiting my two pre-built modules...... and Shawn promised he'd get em in on Oct. 15th. waah
jonne74
Delays are a key component in the waiting game hihi
el clon
jonne74 wrote:
Delays are a key component in the waiting game hihi


this aspect of modular gear always makes me feel like a kid again, even more so than when i'm playing with the stuff - the endless, "is it here yet??" feeling. i waited over 2 year for my Wiard stuff to be built, so i guess i shouldn't complain about a mere couple of weeks..... but i don't care. i WANT IT!!! cry
jbartee
Oh man. Yum. Here's my first patch after violently cutting through the packing tape and shoving this guy into my modular:



Build quality is wonderful and it feels so good to finally have this sound in modular.

One question for other owners and / or ALM: I've noticed that after the first 3 octaves or so (estimating, haven't measured it) the 1V/Oct tracking starts to drift pretty badly. Do I need to calibrate something, or is this just how it is? (or perhaps it's related to the tunable offset, which I haven't experimented with yet?). Not a big deal since it's got a pretty good useable range but I'm curious.
ALM
jbartee wrote:

One question for other owners and / or ALM: I've noticed that after the first 3 octaves or so (estimating, haven't measured it) the 1V/Oct tracking starts to drift pretty badly. Do I need to calibrate something, or is this just how it is? (or perhaps it's related to the tunable offset, which I haven't experimented with yet?). Not a big deal since it's got a pretty good useable range but I'm curious.


It should track pretty solid with maybe a tiny bit of drift at the top end. Experiment with the tunable offset and/or try a different SID chip if possible.
jbartee
ALM wrote:
jbartee wrote:

One question for other owners and / or ALM: I've noticed that after the first 3 octaves or so (estimating, haven't measured it) the 1V/Oct tracking starts to drift pretty badly. Do I need to calibrate something, or is this just how it is? (or perhaps it's related to the tunable offset, which I haven't experimented with yet?). Not a big deal since it's got a pretty good useable range but I'm curious.


It should track pretty solid with maybe a tiny bit of drift at the top end. Experiment with the tunable offset and/or try a different SID chip if possible.


Hmm. I'll try another SID and see if that's the issue. I did experiment with the offset but to no avail- after about 3.5 volts or so it pretty abruptly moves a full semi-tone out of tune, and continues to drift; offset shifts the range around as expected but doesn't modify the tracking at all. The last volt (4-5) is totally out for me.
jbartee
Okay, just replicated it on a second SID, exact same behavior.

The tracking starts drifting after 3.5 Volts, regardless of where I set the offset. To clarify: the same region that is out of tune with offset at 0 can be made to be in tune by adding offset so that the range is covered by the first 3.5 volts. The tracking problem is relative to the offset position, but absolute in terms of voltage.
jbartee
I made a short video to show what I mean. Tracking is dead-accurate until we get to 4V. If I quantize to half steps rather octaves as shown here, it actually sets in around 3.5V, and over the course of the next .1-.2 volts abruptly drifts a semi-tone out. Normal behavior, or problem? We can move to PMs or email if you'd like.



Continuing my gush-fest, non-volatile storage of all parameters is super awesome. I wish all digital modules had this.
anselmi
jbartee wrote:
I made a short video to show what I mean. Tracking is dead-accurate until we get to 4V. If I quantize to half steps rather octaves as shown here, it actually sets in around 3.5V, and over the course of the next .1-.2 volts abruptly drifts a semi-tone out. Normal behavior, or problem? We can move to PMs or email if you'd like.



Continuing my gush-fest, non-volatile storage of all parameters is super awesome. I wish all digital modules had this.


woof...I got the same issue with an early series minibrute but in all the oscillator range...pretty annoying...
jbartee
anselmi wrote:
jbartee wrote:
I made a short video to show what I mean. Tracking is dead-accurate until we get to 4V. If I quantize to half steps rather octaves as shown here, it actually sets in around 3.5V, and over the course of the next .1-.2 volts abruptly drifts a semi-tone out. Normal behavior, or problem? We can move to PMs or email if you'd like.

Continuing my gush-fest, non-volatile storage of all parameters is super awesome. I wish all digital modules had this.


woof...I got the same issue with an early series minibrute but in all the oscillator range...pretty annoying...


The weird thing is that it isn't fubar across the whole range, and it starts really abruptly. The SID's osc frequency is just controlled by digital registers, so I almost feel like this must be a firmware problem unless there's something weird going on pre-ADC on the cv input; a messed up resistor value somewhere in the analog chain, maybe. Probably best not to speculate though until ALM returns.

In the meantime, here's a more intricate SID GUTS / MM patch:
ALM
jbartee wrote:
I made a short video to show what I mean. Tracking is dead-accurate until we get to 4V. If I quantize to half steps rather octaves as shown here, it actually sets in around 3.5V, and over the course of the next .1-.2 volts abruptly drifts a semi-tone out. Normal behavior, or problem? We can move to PMs or email if you'd like.


Yeah assuming you've tried another SID (or are sure this one is good) then please do drop me an email and we'll figure out whats going on.
jbartee
ALM wrote:
jbartee wrote:
I made a short video to show what I mean. Tracking is dead-accurate until we get to 4V. If I quantize to half steps rather octaves as shown here, it actually sets in around 3.5V, and over the course of the next .1-.2 volts abruptly drifts a semi-tone out. Normal behavior, or problem? We can move to PMs or email if you'd like.


Yeah assuming you've tried another SID (or are sure this one is good) then please do drop me an email and we'll figure out whats going on.


okay, just sent you an email.
peff
I'm looking through the documentation about switching over to 8580, and i see it mentions that we should swap the 470pF filter caps out. Is there a recommended voltage value for the 22nF caps?

A link to the appropriate 22nF Wima would be appreciated.

Thanks!
ALM
peff wrote:

A link to the appropriate 22nF Wima would be appreciated.


Mouser part num 505-FKP20.022/63/2.5 ?

Voltage wise being conservatively Id say at least 25v. Make sure the lead spacing is 5mm too.
el clon
ugh. you mean we have to do some DIY stuff to be able to use 8580 SIDs?
is that the only way to use them? i have a pair of 6581s and a pair of 8550s, and i was planning on using whichever i liked better, maybe even one of each. but this would mean no 8580 for me...
Monobass
It's subjective, but personally after hearing the 6581 and 8550 side by side in the GUTS, the 6581 was the clear winner for me.
peff
ALM wrote:


Mouser part num 505-FKP20.022/63/2.5 ?

Voltage wise being conservatively Id say at least 25v. Make sure the lead spacing is 5mm too.


Great thanks!

@el clon. the capacitors are socketed so it's is easier than swapping the sid chip :-)
ALM
el clon wrote:
ugh. you mean we have to do some DIY stuff to be able to use 8580 SIDs?


The SID chip and associated dual filter caps are socketed on the rear of the module so they can be easily switched out. Please refer to the manual for more info. Its about as DIY as putting a new module in your case.. No soldering or anything required.

The module comes with 470pf caps for the most common and whats generally considered best sounding SID chip - the 6851. The SwinSID does not require any caps. Again refer to the manual for more details.

Also having the caps socketed gives the ability to experiment with non standard value caps which can give 'interesting' filter characteristics.
bartleby
ALM wrote:
whats generally considered best sounding SID chip - the 6851.

uhm, i'm not sure that's entirely accurate.

i think that the c64 demo/tracker crowd do indeed prefer the 6851 because of some bug which can be used for some kind of sample playback hack. but from what i remember from the discussions in the midibox sid forums, most people there preferred the 8580, because its filter has a more useful cutoff range, and its overall sound was considered by many to be 'more musical' (whatever that means in this case). when i built my sammich sid, i tried both the 6851 and the 8580 and definitely liked the 8580 better.

what's cool about the swinsid, of course, is that it can emulate both chips. you can even add a breakout with a switch to toggle between 6851 and 8580 emulation.

anyway, i don't think there is any kind of general agreement on which of the two sounds better, so it might be a good idea to include caps for both sid chips with your prebuilt modules, so that people can easily decide between the two without having to source the other cap (not that it was a rare part or anything, but i suppose most people buying prebuilt modules won't like idea of having to source a single cap from somewhere).
Monobass
But those c64 demo guys don't have other filters in their systems... and the sample playback hack is irrelevant.

Personally for me in the context of the modular, it's all about the PWM sound and the different oscillator modulations, that's where the actual SID character lies frankly. The filter is nice, but it's unlikely anyone would recognise it with an external source through it. Whereas you're never going to not recognise the PWM if you grew up with it.

Also if you can source a SID chip, then a cap is easy. 8_)
bartleby
well, personally i don't have any problem with sourcing that cap. i'll gladly just take a pcb+panel (well, two of each, of course), and source all the rest.

(speaking of which: any idea when those pcbs and panels will be available?)

i was just trying to empathize with those buying a complete, pre-built module. i think they would expect their package to include everything they need to run the module with either sid version. otherwise, it would just seem incomplete, imho. (the hardsid usb modules always included sets of caps for both versions, for example)
Monobass
In the process of ordering panels and harvesting components for the DIY kit run now.

I appreciate your empathy, but it is with precisely no-one, as there isn't a 'complete, pre-built module' they all require the buyer to have the faculties to source a SID chip in the first place.
bartleby
Monobass wrote:
I appreciate your empathy, but it is with precisely no-one, as there isn't a 'complete, pre-built module' they all require the buyer to have the faculties to source a SID chip in the first place.

aw cmon, you know as well as i do that anybody can easily buy a sid on ebay. but a single cap? order a single 10 cent part from mouser and add 20 eur for shipping?!

i don't know, i just think it seems a little strange to charge 300 gbp for a factory-built module and not include that cheap little cap.

but it's not really my problem as i'm not in the market for that factory-built run, anyway. i'm eagerly awaiting the diy version.

i noticed you only mentioned kits there - no pcb+panel option as with the turing machne? (which i really love, btw)
Monobass
The focus is on complete kits and PCB sets first. That should fund another panel run pretty much immediately and I expect Panels and PCBs to be available fairly indefinitely.
bartleby
excellent!
HeWhoWantsJeans
Monobass wrote:
The focus is on complete kits and PCB sets first. That should fund another panel run pretty much immediately and I expect Panels and PCBs to be available fairly indefinitely.

Ooh. I'm giddy with anticipation for a complete kit and PCB set. hyper
ALM
bartleby wrote:

aw cmon, you know as well as i do that anybody can easily buy a sid on ebay. but a single cap? order a single 10 cent part from mouser and add 20 eur for shipping?!

i don't know, i just think it seems a little strange to charge 300 gbp for a factory-built module and not include that cheap little cap.


Wow yet again Im made to seriously question why I even bother seriously, i just don't get it

FWIW if an actual customer had a problem with missing caps (of which they havn't note) I would happily send them a set of caps free of charge no problem at all.
jonne74
Gah! Missed a small invoice from postmodular for additional postage. I can just see it - cargo plane taking off while mr postman misses it by a hair with my package in his hands. "Oh well, there'll be another flight in six weeks."
ALM
bartleby wrote:

uhm, i'm not sure that's entirely accurate.

i think that the c64 demo/tracker crowd do indeed prefer the 6851 because of some bug which can be used for some kind of sample playback hack. but from what i remember from the discussions in the midibox sid forums, most people there preferred the 8580, because its filter has a more useful cutoff range, and its overall sound was considered by many to be 'more musical' (whatever that means in this case). when i built my sammich sid, i tried both the 6851 and the 8580 and definitely liked the 8580 better.


*yawn* whatever - of course its subjective thus I didn't say 'categorically' but 'generally' going mainly on what respected friends etc prefer. The 8580 is still a *lot* more less common imho but I guess judging by your stated internet forum experience you obviously have a lot of free time on your hands and your going to argue with that also ?
bartleby
ALM wrote:
but I guess judging by your stated internet forum experience you obviously have a lot of free time on your hands and your going to argue with that also ?

uhm, no. i just spent some time in the midibox forums years ago when i was preparing my midibox sid build. that stuff isn't nearly as well documented as thonk's kits are. maybe everything has changed by now and the 6581 is all the rage now, i wouldn't know and frankly i don't care. i was just surprised by your assertion about the 6581, that's all.
let's not fight over this, and definitely let's not get personal about it. sorry if i pi**ed you off in any way, i honestly didn't mean to. sad banana
ALM
bartleby wrote:

let's not fight over this, and definitely let's not get personal about it. sorry if i pi**ed you off in any way, i honestly didn't mean to. sad banana


No worries, apology graciously accepted smile. Didn't mean to get touchy just a ton of sweat and pain went into this module and being seemingly so maligned on the caps was a bit upsetting.
bartleby
please file what i said (or what you found upsetting about it) under 'german bluntness'. i do know theoretically, that what over here most people would welcome as 'frankness' or 'constructive critisism', is often considered rude or even aggressive elsewhere. i just don't always find it easy to translate that theoretical knowledge into linguistic practice. hihi

i was honestly (and probably a little naively) just voicing my surprise and trying to point out a potential disappointment some of your customers might experience (and a simple way of avoiding that negative customer experience). you know, just my little contribution to the continuous improvement process, that's all. smile

anyway, i'm really looking forward to building one or two of your sid modules. they look great and very well thought out - and might actually replace my sammich sid. nanners
ALM
Apologies for misunderstanding. It is all peace and love here at ALM towers smile
el clon
ALM wrote:
el clon wrote:
ugh. you mean we have to do some DIY stuff to be able to use 8580 SIDs?


The SID chip and associated dual filter caps are socketed on the rear of the module so they can be easily switched out. Please refer to the manual for more info. Its about as DIY as putting a new module in your case.. No soldering or anything required.

The module comes with 470pf caps for the most common and whats generally considered best sounding SID chip - the 6851. The SwinSID does not require any caps. Again refer to the manual for more details.

Also having the caps socketed gives the ability to experiment with non standard value caps which can give 'interesting' filter characteristics.


Ok, thanks for the info. If it's as easy as installing a module, with no soldering necessary, then even I can do that.... and it doesn't matter which chip sounds best because I bought BOTH! mwahahahaha-ha-ha. twisted
The bad part is i had to cancel my order because we needed money really bad, but i'm hoping there will still be a couple of pre-builts left in the US in a few weeks... and thanks again for designing and manufacturing this beautiful module. It will be one of my favorites, I can already tell.
Limey
just making the first testrun.
it's fuckin aaaaaawesome! MY ASS IS BLEEDING
jonne74
Limey wrote:
just making the first testrun.
it's fuckin aaaaaawesome! MY ASS IS BLEEDING


Picking up mine tomorrow! w00t
jonne74
Tried some quick patching yesterday with a 6581 and it sounds amazing! The filter is really nice on this older chip. Can't wait to create some chords in Live.
el clon
ahhhh. you guys are killing me! maybe some recordings? i've listened to all the recordings and demos 20 times, new ones would be super-cool. nanners
Limey
Made a little something w00t
ALM
Very lovely applause

(The embedding in the post is a bit borked)
el clon
yeah! nanners
horstronic
Limey wrote:
Made a little something w00t


Wow!
I think I need that little monster...
Don't know if this has already been discussed but will there be kits?
vurma
horstronic wrote:


Wow!
I think I need that little monster...
Don't know if this has already been discussed but will there be kits?


One page back provides you an answer:

"The focus is on complete kits and PCB sets first. That should fund another panel run pretty much immediately and I expect Panels and PCBs to be available fairly indefinitely."
horstronic
vurma wrote:
horstronic wrote:


Wow!
I think I need that little monster...
Don't know if this has already been discussed but will there be kits?


One page back provides you an answer:

"The focus is on complete kits and PCB sets first. That should fund another panel run pretty much immediately and I expect Panels and PCBs to be available fairly indefinitely."


Ooops...
Nice! Waiting for it!
Plop
I got two 6581's left from my Sammishsid build and was planning to get up to eight for a MB6582 but I think that little buddy just went on to the pile of long term future projects screaming goo yo
Hope the lose panels and pcb's are available soon.
samuraipizzacat29
anxiously waiting to roll my own.

edit: the "thanks for sharing" was so obviously implied to me, I forgot to post it. I'm hugely happy this will be available since Midibox builds are too obscure for me.
karim
Received mine 2 days ago smile but not sure how to fix the heat sinks ?


[/img]
cane creek
Monobass wrote:
The focus is on complete kits and PCB sets first. That should fund another panel run pretty much immediately and I expect Panels and PCBs to be available fairly indefinitely.


Waiting patiently with a SID thumbs up
el clon
just plugged my 6581 SID into my second SID Guts (the best birthday present! w00t ) only to find that the chip's filter section is damaged. waah
the only other chips i have are 8580s, so i'll need to buy that little resistor or whatever it is.... lame.
does anyone have a direct link to where i can buy a couple of the parts needed to use an 8580 chip? i don't know anything abut electronics, so i rather need my hand held on this one. thanks in advance.

karim, as far as the heatsinks go, the second picture is correct. it's a very tight fit. they slide on that little metal post, like you did in the bottom photo.
ALM
el clon wrote:

karim, as far as the heatsinks go, the second picture is correct. it's a very tight fit. they slide on that little metal post, like you did in the bottom photo.


No they are both incorrect !!!!

The heatsink should encase all of the regulator body and be raised off the pcb at the top end via the little 'leg' on the heatsink. i.e;



Please refer to the manual and the little flyer than comes with the GUTS explaining this.
ALM
el clon wrote:
just plugged my 6581 SID into my second SID Guts (the best birthday present! w00t ) only to find that the chip's filter section is damaged. waah
the only other chips i have are 8580s, so i'll need to buy that little resistor or whatever it is.... lame.
does anyone have a direct link to where i can buy a couple of the parts needed to use an 8580 chip? i don't know anything abut electronics, so i rather need my hand held on this one. thanks in advance.


2 x Mouser part num 505-FKP20.022/63/2.5

or any 22nf capacitors with a voltage rating of at least 16v and 5mm lead spacing.

Also note the 8580 will 'work' with the included 6581 Capacitors but the filter response will be off. Also remember to set the jumper for 9v!
holovicc
Limey, thanks for the lovely demo! Can i ask you how you done the arpeggiating? I can hear clear intervals in the arpeggio at about 0:14.
el clon
ALM wrote:
el clon wrote:

karim, as far as the heatsinks go, the second picture is correct. it's a very tight fit. they slide on that little metal post, like you did in the bottom photo.


No they are both incorrect !!!!

The heatsink should encase all of the regulator body and be raised off the pcb at the top end via the little 'leg' on the heatsink. i.e;



Please refer to the manual and the little flyer than comes with the GUTS explaining this.


Sorry. I thought he was just holding it on there to show how he was thinking of putting it on, not meaning to actually leave it that way...
el clon
ALM wrote:
el clon wrote:
just plugged my 6581 SID into my second SID Guts (the best birthday present! w00t ) only to find that the chip's filter section is damaged. waah
the only other chips i have are 8580s, so i'll need to buy that little resistor or whatever it is.... lame.
does anyone have a direct link to where i can buy a couple of the parts needed to use an 8580 chip? i don't know anything abut electronics, so i rather need my hand held on this one. thanks in advance.


2 x Mouser part num 505-FKP20.022/63/2.5

or any 22nf capacitors with a voltage rating of at least 16v and 5mm lead spacing.

Also note the 8580 will 'work' with the included 6581 Capacitors but the filter response will be off. Also remember to set the jumper for 9v!


Thank you for the info!
karim
el clon wrote:
ALM wrote:
el clon wrote:

karim, as far as the heatsinks go, the second picture is correct. it's a very tight fit. they slide on that little metal post, like you did in the bottom photo.


No they are both incorrect !!!!

The heatsink should encase all of the regulator body and be raised off the pcb at the top end via the little 'leg' on the heatsink. i.e;



Please refer to the manual and the little flyer than comes with the GUTS explaining this.


Sorry. I thought he was just holding it on there to show how he was thinking of putting it on, not meaning to actually leave it that way...


el clon and ALM thanks! I already read the manual but it was not clear for me (picture ref inside), now it's better with this one! Great job on this module. we're not worthy
el clon
ALM wrote:
el clon wrote:
just plugged my 6581 SID into my second SID Guts (the best birthday present! w00t ) only to find that the chip's filter section is damaged. waah
the only other chips i have are 8580s, so i'll need to buy that little resistor or whatever it is.... lame.



Also note the 8580 will 'work' with the included 6581 Capacitors but the filter response will be off. Also remember to set the jumper for 9v!


thanks very much for letting me know this. i just tried my 8580s without swapping the cap and, to my surprise, they both worked great (save for the fact that the filter cutoff response was wonky, as you said). regardless of the wonkiness - it was mainly that the whole of the filter's' sweep was squashed into a small range of the knob's total travel - i really loved the sound of the 8580's filter. now i feel like i need 4 SID Guts!!

apologies to all for not recording any of my experiments, but i'm in the middle of moving and my studio is barely functioning. in fact, my modular is being packed up today, gone for the next few weeks. Dead Banana

needless to say, this module sounds fucking amazing. applause we're not worthy SlayerBadger!
el clon
ok, i couldn't resist. i made one last recording before the move...

i paired the SID Guts with my other new module - Metasonix's amazing new R-56 reverb. (this is with a 6581 chip.)

[s]http://soundcloud.com/levitating/alm-sid-guts-vs-metasonix-r-56[/s]
bartleby
any news on sid guts kits?
bartleby
bartleby wrote:
any news on sid guts kits?

bump?
ALM
Still planned but no firm ETA as yet Im afraid. I'll update the thread as soon as any news!
mckenic
thumbs up

Thanks sir!
gilesjuk
Any news?

If I miss this batch I will be really upset cry Mr. Green
Monobass
I built one last week and it works great, so we're on the home straight. No other info yet.
gilesjuk
That's great news. The SID is what got me into music and the MB-6582 got me back into electronics smile
Monobass
Bom, panel and PCB for the DIY SID GUTS are now finalised. We're getting there people!

Kit Wishlist - http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/alm-sid-guts-diy-wishlist/

mckenic
Brilliant!!!

Thank you for the info Hug

hyper
cane creek
Superb, really looking forward to this build and finally get some use out of this SID chip I've got sat here all alone thumbs up
gilesjuk
Take my money grin

Dual PCBs? gonna be a fun build. Will the open source stuff appear online soon?
Monobass
It's a very straightforward build, nothing cramped or tricky. Here's what the DIY panel looks like:

crossinger
Monobass wrote:
It's a very straightforward build, nothing cramped or tricky. Here's what the DIY panel looks like:



Yay! applause

And iirc: kit comes without SID. So it's safe to order a SwinSID in advance?
gilesjuk
Looks like the previous built version, which is good. I know quite a few people who just want the PCB so as to produce their own panel and design.

I've successfully built an MB-6582, so this won't be too bad smile

What processor is driving it all, a PIC or Amtel?

Quote:
And iirc: kit comes without SID. So it's safe to order a SwinSID in advance?


I'd order a SwinSID now as they can take a while to arrive.
Monobass
Kit Wishlist - http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/alm-sid-guts-diy-wishlist/

crossinger wrote:
And iirc: kit comes without SID. So it's safe to order a SwinSID in advance?


yep no SID... although I will have an amount of SwinSIDs available for sale as a kit option.
crossinger
Monobass wrote:

yep no SID... although I will have an amount of SwinSIDs available for sale as a kit option.


Ok, I'll consider this. One final question: next week I'm on a vacation trip to the US for several weeks (and have very limited options for internet access and placing orders). I hope I won't miss anything here. waah
Monobass
gilesjuk wrote:
Looks like the previous built version, which is good. I know quite a few people who just want the PCB so as to produce their own panel and design.


Yeah there will be loose Panels and PCBs later down the line.
bartleby
nice!

time to start a thread of its own for this project in the diy forums, isn't it?
Monobass
BUILD THREAD - https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1481338#1481338
Monobass
The DIY run wishlist is still open and if everything falls into place the kit will go on sale within the next 2 weeks.

Loose panels and PCBs will follow on after.

http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/alm-sid-guts-diy-wishlist/

mckenic
Thank you!!!
Monobass
SID GUTS Kits now in stock

http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/sidgutsdiy/
HeWhoWantsJeans
Unf. Can't wait for my kit to ship later this month.

Addendum: I really hope a SwinSID revision ever comes out that does Audio Input. I'm trying to decide if I should re-house another power supply and run a case off it's own Linear Supply just to accommodate the additional 200ma draw of a real C64 chip.

But I do have a SwinSID sitting in my possession and I'll try that first.
gwpt
I'm very excited about this kit! smile

One question:
I have 3 SID chips, the SidSwan, a 6581r4 and an 8580.

I would like to be able to switch between them. Do you know the minimum number of pins I'd need to switch to do this?
Can I get away with piggybacking the chips and just swictch the _CS_ pin to select?
Thanks smile
snufkin
hey is an expander a possibility to make use of the unused sid features ?
2mb1o
thumbs up
HeWhoWantsJeans
Unf. Just completed building my GUTS. I used a SwinSID chip, figuring the efficiency in Amperage more than made up for the lack of External Input processing (note: if they ever launch a SwinSID that does External Input processing, I'd certainly upgrade).

The build guide is extremely well written and the components are wonderfully organized. Any concerns about the lack of the 'third oscillator' are quickly diminished when you turn on the Mod oscillator and hit both V/O inputs with different voltages.
screaming goo yo
Monobass
Finally we have loose SID Eurorack panels, PCBs, Firmware chips and knob sets for sale too.

http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/alm-sid-guts-diy-panelpcbs/
ekwipt
Already sold out?

I'd like to get a fully built one already have the SID chips, how much are the original chips worth? I'd consider selling some to fund the module
el clon
ekwipt wrote:
Already sold out?

I'd like to get a fully built one already have the SID chips, how much are the original chips worth? I'd consider selling some to fund the module


i bought 4 chips last year on eBay, two 6581 and two 8580, for about $20 each.
Monobass
ekwipt wrote:
Already sold out?


Nope, sorry everything is in stock in that link I posted, I'm confused...

Are you talking about full kits? They will be back in stock in about 2 weeks.
Monobass
Last three SID GUTS DIY Kits in stock - probably the last chance to buy this year

http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/sidgutsdiy/
colorbars
Sorry to dig up an old thread, but does anyone know if panels, pcbs etc will be made available for this again?
Monobass
yep good timing, I'll have a small (and probably final for now) batch available in around 2 weeks.
cleahy
Oof, one day I'm going to get around to building mine. My backlog is so stupidly long d'oh!
mckenic
Ack - cant miss this again!
Did a teeny bit of beta testing and just HAVE to finally get my own!

Signed-up for pcb and panel notification on Thonk - is that the best way to find out when to go?
TDK
*registering interest too*
cranleigh
Also keen on this one; have a SID coming in the post and everything...
jameswalk
Hi people, I've just purchased a complete SidGuts module. It contains 2x SID cards (1x swinSID, 1x vintageSID). Apart from the documented power consumption considerations, is there likely to be much difference in sound between them?

Cheers
roqeja
SWIMSID cannot be used as a filter I believe.
Dogma
So are these available? Can I put dibs on one:)
Bluebottle
Is the SwinSID available to buy anywhere? It's showing as out of stock at Sinchai.de
colorbars
Monobass wrote:
yep good timing, I'll have a small (and probably final for now) batch available in around 2 weeks.


Is this happening?? seriously, i just don't get it
HeWhoWantsJeans
roqeja wrote:
SWIMSID cannot be used as a filter I believe.

Yep. I believe that is the main functional difference.

I have a few SID chips and I've toyed with the idea of trying one out but the hike in power consumption didn't make it worth it, to me. I've been totally pleased with my SidGUTS running a SwinSID.
Dogma
colorbars wrote:
Monobass wrote:
yep good timing, I'll have a small (and probably final for now) batch available in around 2 weeks.


Is this happening?? seriously, i just don't get it


Look all of us can get the chips if required so is this a happening thing? I have been watching the availability of these closely and I cant see there has been even a 10 module release - please we just wanna buy one so let us know if its going to happen
Arko
I am also very much after a SIDGUTS DIY Kit (Panel and PCB), registered on waitlist on thonk.

Is there any other way? Or more direct?


Can't wait, my soldering iron is hot! applause
TDK
I was lucky enough to find one built (I wouldn't be able to build it) in Italy a couple of weeks ago. Would still like another one.
ParsecWaves
Arko wrote:
I am also very much after a SIDGUTS DIY Kit (Panel and PCB), registered on waitlist on thonk.

Is there any other way? Or more direct?


Can't wait, my soldering iron is hot! applause


Whoops sorry, posted with the wrong account, this is me up here. (I should ping a mod to delete it...)
Monobass
Hello everyone waiting on the SID GUTS Panels and chips.

I will try and get the chips programmed and on sale this week. Sadly it's one of those tasks that just kept dropping down my to do list for no particular reason.

Steve
Monobass
ok I'm burning the chips now, this small batch is the last batch of SID GUTS DIY Panels/PCBs and chips that will be in stock in 2015 and possibly longer.

http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/alm-sid-guts-diy-panelpcbs/
PolarIceCaves
did i miss the knobs?
TDK
There weren't any when I ordered either.
PolarIceCaves
would any of these work? pretty nice!

http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/knobs-davies-1900h-clone-metal/

maybe the "D" shaft?
cranleigh
TDK wrote:
There weren't any when I ordered either.

doh! me too!
mats_j
I was sure I would get one of these when they became available again, but then I caught a glimpse of that new ALM video clip...
ParsecWaves
w00t ordered mine! applause

But... wait what? I can't find the knobs in the BOM. Do we have a reference?

I hope they are still available! we're not worthy
Monobass
The ALM knobs might come back but not right now, I can't promise.

The 'glimpse' in the new ALM video will not be a DIY project.

The Davies D-shaft knobs do not work with the pots in the BOM, the shafts on the pots are too small.

These knobs work, they will be back in about a week (I'm in the process of moving office... ) very frustrating - They are the same as the ALM knobs but different caps - http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/intellijel-style-knobs/

I have 3 out of 30 PCB sets left.
ZARk
Well apparently all is sold out !

I've managed to quickly order mine straight after the email notification.


A friend would also like one, any chances of the project going opensource ? Or a "pay to download the eagle files" service ?
TDK
Just picked up the ALM version off eBay France, so I'm up to two now.

It's peanut butter jelly time!

Still got other bits to buy before I get a sound though.
WIZARDISHUNGRY
https://twitter.com/busycircuits/status/637110181088722944

omg!
C14ru5
Sid Guts Deluxe, eh? Very exciting news!
Dogma
C14ru5 wrote:
Sid Guts Deluxe, eh? Very exciting news!


It had to happen....I think they got hassled about the sid guts (by people like me:) so this is very cool.....like always $$$?
KONTAKT1968
Exciting news time to start saving....chords... Mr. Green
TDK
Shame the footprint is so much larger. I have two SIDGuts, would be interested in upgrading when the full spec is released.... but alas no space to 'upgrade' what I already have.
bob the r0bot
>just spent my gear money
>SID guts deluxe announced
FUCK
NS4W
Is it available anywhere?
mats_j
NS4W wrote:
Is it available anywhere?


London Modular had them in stock when I looked the other day.
Revert
Where do/are folks buying the SwinSID chip ?
PolarIceCaves
Revert wrote:
Where do/are folks buying the SwinSID chip ?


Ebay
TDK
Watch out for fake SID's on eBay though, there are loads out there. You could do better to get a 2nd hand C64 and take the chip out.

I do have a SwinSID in one of my Gut's and it works well. What it doesn't have so much of is the background quirky noises which do add to the SID sound.
calaveras
call me the necromancer for revivifying this dead thread.

Is there ever going to be another run of the SID guts DIY?
I'm very interested in that one, as I like to DIY as much of my rack as possible.
The Guts DLX is neato, but also lots of SMT apparently. And Smeagol hates it, hates! Not sure it would ever be offered DIY right?
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