Muff's Modules & More

[laserpalace]

I've been thinking about getting a beauty case to house video modules for a while now. Outside of the Analogue Solutions VD-01, does anyone know of any other euro video modules. I think it would be great for live performance, this video has been pretty inspiring : http://vimeo.com/7517418

(obviously not looking for anything as complex as the Rutt Etra)

[thermionicjunky]

http://www.lzxindustries.net/

[giorgio]

http://www.lzxindustries.net/

[laserpalace]

Thanks for the link, these look pretty amazing! Now to sit and wait...

[numan7]

Mine should be arriving next week!!!!!!!!

Will throw together a quick demo and post to youTube and embed here the night they arrive... can hardly wait!!!

[giorgio]

i never heard prices on these modules? what price scale are they on?? i'd very much so like to get into this stuff as well, all the circuits over at the experimental television center look so rad. they have kool synths too from what I understand.

[MrDys]

Individual module prices have yet to be released. Lars is only selling complete systems (at a reasonable price--I'll let him chime in if he wants to say how much) for the first run.

[laserpalace]

that would be great numan7! I'm curious as to what these are going for as well, seriously considering building a euro just for video synthesis.

[lizlarsen]

Hi everyone -- nice to see this thread pop up!!

[lizlarsen]

Oh, and don't forget Dave Jones is planning to release his modules too! http://www.jonesvideo.com

He's just updated his website. Dave's system uses a different approach than ours, which means our system and his will complement each other very well, and both offer unique uses and workflows.

Looks like the year for modular video synthesizers!

[Cat-A-Tonic]

[laserpalace]

so excited that these are being made, thank you Lars!

[lizlarsen]

[bubblesound]

Hi Lars - it's really great to see this finally coning out. i can't wait to play around with tommy's. congrats on this. i know it's been a LOT of hard work. the demos i've seen so far have been really great, a little quiet.... great job and best of luck with this.

[giorgio]

this stuff all sounds so amazing. i don't know a lot about it, but I am looking to get into more video art and this looking like the way to go for that real feel.


better start saving up now

[lizlarsen]

David -- thanks so much. It's been pretty much nonstop work on this since I last saw you in Texas! We'll get some audiovisualization-focused clips online soon. I need to get access to a bigger Euro system in order to really demonstrate some more complex synergistic patches! Hopefully these initial system owners are gonna go nuts with the clip uploading though, very excited to see what everyone does.

Maybe "voltage controlled" will be a new indie film subgenre by 2011.

[daverj]

My video synth modules aren't available yet, but should start being available later this summer. There will be a number of different modules based on the designs that I made in the 70s and 80s at the Experimental TV Center, and for other video artists over the years. Plus there will be modules based on new ideas that aren't at the TV Center (yet).

I haven't worked out prices yet, but video circuits are more complex than audio, and use more expensive parts, so expect most modules to be a bit higher priced than the average Euro audio module. They also use more power, so when ordering cases, always opt for the stronger power supplies.

I put up a system overview at http://www.jonesvideo.com a few days ago and hope to start adding new information there every week or two over the summer as the modules get closer to being ready.

When Lars contacted me a year and a half ago asking me how to build a video synth, my Euro video system had been under development for a couple of years but I hadn't settled on my final standard for video voltages, so didn't pass that info on to him.

Because of that when he decided to make commercial modules he ended up using voltages that aren't the same as mine. This means that some form of adapter module will be needed to pass video between his modules and mine. His use black and white 0 to 1 volt video signals (three jacks for RGB) while mine use bipolar +/-1 volt color video signals.

My system also uses stereo jacks with the "tip" of every input jack accepting standard +/-5 volt audio or control voltages and the "ring" accepting my +/-1 volt video signals. Using regular mono patch cables each input jack can be given standard signals from other Euro modules, or by using a stereo patch cable they can accept video from any of my video modules. So every input jack is a control voltage input or a video input, depending on which type of cable you use and what module you plug into it.

[lizlarsen]

Hey Dave --

The website update looks great, thanks for commenting on standards!

[daverj]

A lot of good info there Lars. It does help people to understand the differences in philosophy between the two systems.

A few details I'd like to add:

1) Signal Levels. My system also does not distinguish between CV, video, audio, etc.. Every input can be used with any of those signals. Every control input can accept video. Every video input can accept CV, etc.. The difference is that CV and audio can be directly patched in from other brands of Euro modules without needing a bank of converter modules to turn them into my video format. It does add extra circuitry in that there is a mixer/ converter built into every input. But when you go to use it you don't have to think about where the signal came from. Just patch it in.

2) Bipolar vs unipolar. While it makes mathematical sense to use unipolar for video, I found out years ago that I didn't find it as visually pleasing. If you start with a video signal that includes the full gamut from black to white and start to mix in a second one, unipolar pushes the first one brighter and brighter. When both are at full strength you are left with the bottom half of the mix. Middle grays are now pushed up to white and everything above middle gray is clipped off.

With bipolar as you mix in that second video the blacks get blacker and the whites get whiter. You are left with the middle portion of the mix, going from about 25% to 75% gray now filling black to white. Since most video images have their most interesting information in that middle gray area, the resulting image tends to be more pleasing, to me at least.

Having the bias controls on video processing modules are very useful. Unlike audio, video can look great with the blacks or whites clipped off. But without a bias control you lose the ability to adjust the brightness of the image to be able to see the range of grays or colors that are the most interesting to you.

There certainly are times where having to adjust the brightness after adjusting gains can get annoying, but having that ability adds extra possibilities too.

Another difference between the systems is that video never passes through a passive attenuator in my system. I found out long ago that the tiniest amount of noise in a pot adds a lot of ugly noise to an image as you turn it. After a couple of years of changing attenuator pots over and over to clean up the noise they added, I started making all of my video designs with built in VCAs for every attenuator. It is simple to filter the pot noise out when the pot is simply supplying a control voltage to the VCA. That makes the pots last a lot longer before the noise is noticeable.

Another advantage of using VCAs for all attenuators is that it is a simple matter for me to design it to fade an image to black, white, gray, or anything else.

3) Colorspace. You covered the differences between the systems here quite well. I'd just like to add that there are a couple of drawbacks to each system.

The drawback with composite color video signals is that each module adds a bit of delay to the signal (all modules do this, even audio ones, but it's so small you never notice). Since the composite color synth is adding the video syncs back on before you leave the system, those delays in each module cause the colors to shift on any video going through each module. The more modules you go through, the more the color shifts. There are hue controls for the whole system and for each input (when using TBC inputs) to compensate for the shifts. But it can be a pain to constantly be adjusting those after each patch change, and as patches get more complicated you can't compensate for all the mismatched delays. You don't have that issue with the triple color space system since each signal is really a black and white signal as it goes through the modules and only becomes color at the end when you encode them.

The drawback to the triple color system is that every processing module must happen in triplicate. To mix two (color) images you basically have three 2-input mixers in parallel. To key one image onto another requires a triple keyer. So besides having to patch 3 cables per video signal, the modules also need triple the circuitry in most cases. Of course some nice effects can be created by not processing all three signals together. Running any one of the three signals through a different set of modules gives all sorts of color effects, though understanding exactly what is happening and getting the exact look you want when doing that may not always be easy.

So while adding extra circuitry, it does also allow many image manipulations not possible in the composite color system. On the other hand the composite color system allows some manipulations not possible with triple colorspace. Triple colorspace is sort of like processing stereo audio in a modular. To maintain the stereo you need to run through two sets of identical modules and set everything the same. But you can also rip the stereo apart and send them through different paths.

So, as Lars says, the two systems are quite different, and have different advantages and disadvantages. The results from each system will look fairly different, and the user experience will be fairly different. The two systems do complement each other more than compete with each other. There are some complications combining the two systems because of the differences, but it will be possible.

The other difference of course is that if you have the money set aside you can buy an LZX system today, while you'll have to wait a couple more months to get your hands on mine.

(sorry about another long post to read)

[felixer]

[lizlarsen]

Dave, those are all great points! I have a couple more comments, just to explain our reasoning behind the design decisions we made...

On converter/interface modules -- We were originally considering having double inputs or switches on our inputs for 10V or 1V signals, but decided it would clutter the system too much and add too much cost. Rather than passing this cost on to the user, which could be annoying for someone interested in a primarily video system, we decided to have the conversion modules, so that users can pick whatever they need for their setup. Also, sometimes the interface modules themselves provide useful output conditioning -- our "Audiovisualization Tools" module will offer several types of outputs (envelope followers, band-pass filtered outs, frequency-to-voltage) from a single audio input.

There are some drawbacks to the Jones stereo jack solution, although it's quite genius! For example, you can't mult a video signal, you still need a conversion module to run video out through non-video modules (or LZX modules), and you can't use stacking cables. The ease of use, however, of patching straight in, instead of through a conversion module is huge. But it's all gonna mean different things to different people, depending on their systems.

On bipolar signals and bias controls -- While the LZX modules respond to 0-to-1V CV ranges and that's the expected range for viewable video, all of our processing modules can process bipolar signals just as well. And with the switched mode attenuverters, it's like there are positive bias controls for "free". Some of our modules do include separate bias controls, such as the Color Video Encoder, and control inputs on the Video Waveform Generator.

And a general comment, philosophy-wise -- I come from a computer graphics/programming background -- so I'm used to seeing things like RGB and HSB sliders in Photoshop all the time -- so naturally the 0% to 100% triple colorspace workflow is what made the most sense to me, as well as things like mathematical blending modes like "Color Difference", (which is achievable with our Video Blending Matrix's Absolute outputs)

On VCAs -- It's worth noting that the Triple Colorspace signals without the chroma subcarrier are much less susceptible to pot noise than Composite Color. It also came down to cost -- with triple modules, that's a lot of VCAs! Our inputs are buffered with wideband video op-amps right as they enter the module, before the attenuverter, and quality components are used throughout.

In any case, it's apparent how both workflows will be interesting to use together! I can envision a rack of LZX modules focusing on tons of VCOs and blending matrixes, and two output encoders feeding a Jones system for further colorization/processing and blending with external color images from cameras, etc.

Maybe it's close to time to start a Video Synthesis subforum...?

[Animal]

It's great to see this and I'm very excited to start educating myself on video synthesis.... many new words for me to learn and understand.

As well, I will mention that Laserpalace's avatar is magnificently imperious and godlike; threatening yet strangely narcotic.
I like it.

[felixer]

[daverj]

[daverj]

[gde]

[lizlarsen]

[felixer]

i'm still learning about all this video stuff so any info is welcom. maybe there are some sites/magazines/books that would make recommended reading? anything i know from the 70ies/80ies is maybe/probably outdated?
live interactive image manipulation always seemed out of reach so i didn't keep up

[lizlarsen]

I'll try to start working on some step-by-step demos and some patch illustrations along with accompanying clips very soon.

There's some good reading here...

http://www.audiovisualizers.com/toolshak/vsynths.htm
http://www.experimentaltvcenter.org/history/index.html

[amnesia]

[amnesia]

Steve Jones was Severed Heads Video Synth guy :-) great visuals back in the 80s :-), then it seems to have been used slighly in the 90s techno vids :-)

[lizlarsen]

Stephen Jones' stuff is great -- he also designed the SuperNova 12 which is owned by my friend Jeffrey Plaide -- his YouTube channel has a plethora of great content...
http://www.youtube.com/user/JeffreyPlaide

The SuperNova 12 is a pseudo-modular system, with 12 custom designed VCOs, some effects/mixer modules in a big rack along with an NTSC sync generator and a 2-input TBC Color Mixer/Keyer unit, etc.
http://www.audiovisualizers.com/toolshak/vidsynth/snova_12/snova_12.ht m

From what I understand, Stephen Jones used a Serge Modular System to supply voltages for some of his custom video circuitry. My partner with LZX, Ed, got to attend a seminar with Tom Ellard/Stephen Jones several months back where they had a few of their video synth circuits on display.

Dave, you should be able to comment on some of the more arcane machines out there, with your involvement in the Experimental TV Center! I really can't believe I haven't tried harder to make the trip up there yet.

[numan7]

[numan7]

oops - i meant "lzx arriving soon ..." above

[lizlarsen]

[daverj]

[lizlarsen]

As far as commercial stuff, there is the Critter & Guitari stuff -- it may not qualify as a modular synth, but the videoscope and cellular automata are very cool for the price --
http://www.critterandguitari.com/home/index.php

[daverj]

[Monobass]

The lack of videos showing tight modular audio and modular video integration is a little disappointing... I'd love to see some.

[lizlarsen]

My access to a bigger EuroRack system is limited. I'll do some demos with my sequencer/banana modular tonight or tomorrow. On the 27th I'll be taking the trek to Dallas for the modular meet-up party and plan to record as many cross-patched demos as possible!

I'd really like to play with a more complex controller-based patch, some joysticks and a TKB sending CV in tandem to audio and video.

If any of you are in Austin area and want to drop by with your Euro system (or want me to drop by with mine) let's try out some audio/video patching!

[numan7]

[daverj]

While not made using the new modular system, the videos at the link below were made in the 80s by Matthew Schlanger using my video synths and oscillators. A set of audio and CV modules were used to manipulate both the video and audio, so it gives a good idea of some of what will be possible with the new system. None of these videos use cameras or tapes. They are all pure image synthesis from oscillators and CV modules.

http://www.lumpybanger.com/index.html

Matthew, BTW, worked for me and for the TV Center back then, laying out PC boards, soldering boards and wiring boxes.

[lizlarsen]

Wow, Dave -- Matt's work is really incredible!!! I'll be watching these for a while.

Thanks for sharing the details on those older systems too.

[felixer]

[lizlarsen]

There's some great patching inspiration here.

http://homepage.eircom.net/~musima/visualmusic/visualmusic.htm
http://www.awn.com/mag/issue2.1/articles/moritz2.1.html

[felixer]

got myself a small 100euro camera and started doing video feedback again. wow, almost forgot how beautifull that can be. really longing for some modules now to couple that with my eurorack audiosynth ....

[Popski]

HO-LEEE CHITT!!

just staggered onto this thread.. amazing!

[opsysbug]

I did live sound for a "Video Band" called NNeng. Heres a link to some
stuff done on the Jones video gear at ETC. Look at the 1998-9
videos to see those wild osc's at work !!
Hi again David. Looking forward to your gear !!

http://www.benton-c.com/cat.htm

www.NNeng.com

Thanks to Benton C and Nacy MW-the NNeng video players.

[opsysbug]

Oh I forgot these links lead mostly to stills !!
Will try to get with Benton to post some video...

[opsysbug]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q2xvWE6Jyw

http://www.benton-c.com/nnengm.htm

http://vimeo.com/11321266 (not at ETC)

http://visualmusic.ning.com/video/nneng-xonn