Muff's Modules & More

[chimologic]

just wondering, since no one seems to have heard anything since that very brief message from Peter G. in the yahoo group a few weeks ago and have not heard of anyone getting their pre-order modules here.

There is a few things from them I want if I can get them through big city music or some other distributor...

[richard]

No. I at last got a message from Plan B today, though not from Peter himself. Seems he has someone else he trusts onboard to help with the problems. Its a small but hopeful sign - of course there's a lot of repairing trust to be done in the next weeks. We'll see. My fingers are crossed. I rlove the Plan B modules and I really want to see them survive,

I'll tell you if and when my very late module arrives

Richard

[tragedybysyntax]

I'm sure everything is fine. Everybody's just freaking out because he's trying to move into a new house. We are like fucking crack fiends arent we?

[jonkull]

I got one as well. Funny that I was told on Feb. 7th that my M32 was "ready to ship" yet was told today (45 days later) that they haven't even been built yet. What a bunch of bullshit.

[tragedybysyntax]

wow.... no shit? here was my email this morning.

"Hello, my name is Jennifer and I am Peters better half. Please understand that Peter and I just flew back from Connecticut three weeks ago and have been extremely busy with finding a house to move into. We found one and have just moved in this weekend . As-well, Peter had just moved his office location the day before he left for Connecticut and it takes time too get things back in order.

The good news is I am going to help him with getting his office back into shape and organized. After all, I am a woman and can get away with nagging him.

Certainly, the work he needs to do for you is priority. However, you are not the only one. There were 27 pre paid orders recieved. These things take time to build. We will get to yours as soon as possible now that things will be settling down. Btw, dont believe all the rumors you hear cause they are not true...

So sorry about all of this. You have got to believe me when I say it was unavoidable.

Ty,
Jennifer"

pre paid? uhm...... how's that shit when i thought the deal was... u pre-ordered then they would follow up? heh... oh well. I've since ordered 2 of the flight of harmony joysticks for my euro instead.

[flippantminister]

this is good news. he has 2 of my modules for repair, and i have heard nothing from him since late january. i'm patient, but with all the lack of activity, i was beginning to worry.

[jonkull]

I got the same email only with the following:

"These things take time to build. I believe they are at number 17 or 18 and yours was 22 in line. Which means yours will be done sometime this week and will be shipped imediately after that."

Which is funny because I recall a post on the yahoo group where he said the only people who were charged (and paid) were the first 10 in line. So how could I be one of the first 10 and be #22 at the same time.

"The first ten are ready, in test as of late yesterday afternoon and
doing splendidly. As always with thefurst run I leave them on
overnight. If I arrive at work today only to find the Noisebug
complex has burned to the ground then I know there's a problem, Houston.

The first ten people who placed reservations have been contacted for
payment arangements. The rest will be contacted as those units march
further down the line."

This was posted on the Plan B Yahoo Group on Feb 10th.

Edit for quote.

[dougcl]

PlanB is definitely not "all growed up now." I just hope that they decide to hang in there and not throw in the towel out of frustration and overwork. All of this would be mere complaining if it weren't for the fact that people have paid for "in stock" modules at the top of Feb and are still waiting for either cash back or goods. Right now I figure my order has about a 50/50 chance of going into AH territory and becoming a charitable donation.

I just received two M10's from Big City (shipped immediately), both labeled 3/10/2009 and "Sam" so they are making modules. Both are perfect and my only lament is that I can't figure out how to get both into my system without giving up something vital. Keep up the good work Sam whoever you are!

[jonkull]

[Johnisfaster]

how unprofessional is it to email someone 2 months later and use the excuse that you were moving into a new house so you couldn't get around to sending their product out? and on top of that they made a mildly sexist comment if you ask me. no I'm not offended by it but to me it reflects poorly on a companies image.

I always thought ableton live was a shining example of professionalism, have you ever seen them emailing people to say "sorry we haven't sent your boxed ableton live out yet, we've just been dealing with so much crap right now. and women nag a lot, am I right fella's?"

here's a little idea.... buy a house on your own time.

[Gordon Cole]

no actually what ableton did when they fell behind getting live 7 out was send a voucher out to people for credit towards another purchase, which I'm still sitting on and will use when I upgrade to 8.

They were also really easy to talk to by phone.

[mono-poly]

plan-b vouchers

[Gordon Cole]

[Johnisfaster]

[Babaluma]

sounds just like the extremely poor personal excuses brice d. hornback used to give me about my psim.

we all have personal problems, but we don't all accept money in advance off of the synth community.

[Johnisfaster]

[beta]

as much as it hurts to say this, it appears as if yes plan b is pretty much dead in the water. that last email sent out only solidifies it for me. i can't believe he would tell us, his customers, something is ready for sale, accept payment, and then 45 days later have his girlfriend send an email saying , "oops, we bought a house and have more important things going on. by the way we never actually built that thing we said was ready to ship." peter was already threading on shaky water, and i think this fiasco has finally sunk plan b for good. hopefully, he'll prove us all wrong, but being how he's in his fifties and still hasn't gotten a clue, he probably never will. sad, but true.

[bloplop]

I concur and suggest that those with grievances read up on the recent thread on Analogue Heaven. It appears one member is in fact going ahead with legal proceedings.

Please, anyone that has tried to purchase goods through paypal and hasn't received them, use the dispute reporting process. I believe you have 45 days from the date of sending payment to report a dispute. This kind of behavior has gone on for too long.

[e-grad]

Just have realized that Plan B is no longer on Noisebug's "We're authoriezd dealers" of Access to Waldorf list.

[NV]

[jonkull]

[dougcl]

Look new people joined up just to make one post! Welcome!

[swordsect]

make it stop

[swordsect]

edit - sorry

[jonkull]

Huh?

[dbch]

this is not the first time plan b has taken a lot of money and failed to deliver. that might have something to do with why he lost his german dealer...
i'm sure it'll pop up again with the modules back to being hand made by peter, it's hard to kill a company when it's down to one or 2 people.
unfortunately he has a pretty long list of people in the same boat as you guys reaching back to the days before the EAR group when he was trying to the milton off the ground. hopefully things will work out for you guys.

[Montag]

Whatever their problems are, I just hope they pull through and get the Zero Cases and Mini-Miltons out. I need those now!

[deastman]

As much as this situation sucks, lets all try to keep in mind that Plan B makes a fantastic selection of modules. I have a bunch of them, and have never had any technical problems with the ones I bought. The big difference is, I bought all of mine through Analogue Haven and Noisebug, who both remain professional and upstanding as always. I don't want to see Plan B shut the doors, I want a Model 32! I put in a "reserve" for one but have not prepaid. The way things are going, I'd probably just wait until they are actually in inventory at a *dealer* such as Big City. I really feel for all of you who have put down money and apparently been mislead. Lets just hope that Peter pulls himself together and gets back to the business of building and shipping modules ASAP.

[beta]

by the way, you guys and gals don't even want to know the kinds of people peter has building his modules. a friend of a friend worked for him when they were in pomona and apparently just about everyone working for him had no experience whatsoever. which is cool, you know, people can learn, but according to my buddy these people were learning with modules that were being built for customers. personally i wouldn't want some random person walking in off the street buidling my module, no matter how bad ass it might be. from what i've heard it seems as if plan b pretty much has the worst track record for quality already, but after hearing what goes on there i'm suprised it's not a lot worse. just wanted to throw that out there. people deserve to know this kind of stuff. i originally decided to keep this stuff to myself, but with all these recent going on's, it seems about high time for people to learn the truth.

[dougcl]

Hey folks, I got a delivery notification this evening from USPS... says Plan B.

[smitty]

[suitandtieguy]

[smitty]

[Johnisfaster]

[suitandtieguy]

[smitty]

[Kent]

My two cents & weak-ass effort to consolidate these threads:


Kent On The Soap Box

[bar|none]

[edit] moving this here.

I'm new here and made the mistake of ordering my first module from Plan B direct (Option A), limited to orders in stock and ready to ship.

So where am I know with this? Not a single order confirmation, reply to my emails or voicemails. I finally filed a paypal claim.

If you come fresh to this without knowing all the history, baggage, excuses, etc...it's really much clearer.

This is unacceptable for any business with an online presence.

Why is Plan B direct still taking orders online? If they are trying to resolve the issues, then shut it down. Deal with current orders, let your resellers handle......oh nevermind. I don't really care.

There's only one Adam Henry here and it's Plan B.

[LP]

Hello boyz....My name is Jennifer and I am Peters girlfriend. I am the reason why he came to connecticut. Check it out, Peter is only one person. He moved his shop location, his home location, rescued his girlfriend, all in a matter of three weeks while still keeping his business running and trying to make everyone happy.

Obviously, he bit off more then anyone can chew. I have only been back in L.A. a couple of weeks and since I have been back, he has delivered over 100 modules to BigCity music, sent out direct orders and has continually been working on the M32's. As-well, he has been working on repairs which only he has the knowledge to do. I speak from first hadn experience when I tell you he is extremely anal and checks each and every module himself befoe it is shipped out!!!

What hasnt he done? He has done a crappy job of communicating with his customers. That is where I have stepped in. I have responded to any customers that have sent him emails and been keeping them abreast at what is going on. Some of his modules, especially his vector plotter,are extremely tedious and time consuming. we are lucky if we get one finished a day. What else hasnt he done? That one is difficult to say since I havent been here that long but I do see him needing help with restocking. It seems he falls behind but I am assuming it is related to his office move. I am going to try to help him.

I understand peoples frustrations with not recieving something you paid for. I, too, would be upset. All I can do is try to assist him and assist you. Here is my email: thelittleleeper@yahoo.com.

[deastman]

Jennifer,

Thank you for taking the time to respond in this forum. This is a relatively small community, and we appreciate you making the effort to reach out to us. However, make no mistake: at this point you need to be in damage control mode. Based on the communications I've seen so far, I'm not sure you fully grasp how badly Peter's reputation has been hurt in recent weeks.

To begin addressing the situation, I suggest at minimum that you post a weekly update on the Yahoo group regarding the status of outstanding orders and a plan for moving forward. As an example, I "reserved" a Model 32 weeks ago, but never received so much as a confirmation email. I have no idea if my "reservation" was even received, how many people are ahead of me in line, or how many months I might expect to wait before getting a response.

Peter also needs to provide an explanation for the glaring quality control issues highlighted in this and other threads. I personally have never had a problem with any Plan B module, but some of these workmanship oversights in other customer's modules are, quite frankly, unacceptable.

Lastly, there have been a series of unfortunate and embarrassingly public issues which continue to mar the good name of Plan B: repair work which was either never completed, or completed but never shipped back to customers, and now apparently an impending lawsuit. I urge you to address these problems in a timely and professional manner, so the company can move forward and begin to repair its reputation.

I believe I speak for all of us when I say that we want Peter and Plan B to succeed. I wish you well, and thanks again for posting here.

David

[Norman_Phay]

J, this is another thread here you should read:

http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3469&postdays=0&posto rder=asc&start=0

The only thing I can suggest is that you list all of the outstanding work - repairs and orders going back over the last couple of years, and complete them, starting with the oldest, and working sequentially through to the newest.

You guys have a hell of a steep hill in front of you, that's for sure.

[LP]

Regardless of what public opinion may be, we do not have the obligation of publishing a list of our customers issues. I, myself, have reviewed and tried to organize the 7 returns we have recieved from noisebug, only one of which had a letter telling us what was wrong and who it came from. We are trying to sort this out. But, in the meantime, we owe you no list or summary of our business. Because we havent replied on this forum, doesnt make the alligations true. If there is an issue with out workmanship standards, then please provide the mill standard paragrapgh which was violated because that is what we build to. This is the same standard used by NASA. The odd thing to me is that few of you have come to us directly with your workmanship issues. Yet, they hit this forum and become such a big deal. Peter has reviewed some of the points that have been brought up on this list with me. For instance, missing components. There are a few components on the model 10 and 37 for instance which have never been installed and dont need to be. You have a working module in your hand yet your making an issue about missing components?
Warped face plates....in the elf modules, so much of the metal is removed in the holes required for the components that the face plates have a tendancy to warp. However, once they are mounted, they straighten out. So, what is the problem with this?

I am here now and will personally make sure that these issues are addressed. I am sure some of your issues are just, but try coming to us directly, OK?

thank you

[dougcl]

Peter needs help and now he's getting it. Everyone should welcome this. If you can help communicate order status with individual customers, then you'll be taking a lot of pressure off of the team. This was the only issue I had with my order. Customers need to know when to expect their order, and they need a tracking number once the item is shipped. This is a lot of work, and it's good to know Peter can get back to the technical side. Unfortunately though, you are going to get a bunch of crap thrown at you.

[LP]

"Bring it on!"

[Norman_Phay]

I wasn't suggesting you make a public list, I was suggesting you make a list for yourselves so you know what order to complete your outstanding work in. Nor was I suggesting that you have any kind of "obligation" to do anything. Carrying out outstanding work in the order in which you received it seems to be basic common sense to me, that's all.

I don't like your combative attitude here much TBH, and it does not make me want to email you or speak to you on the telephone.

I see, again, people who have paid for goods long after I have being prioritised over me. I have written off the $505 I paid to your boyfriend 18 months ago and will not be contributing further to any thread online relating to Plan B. I imagine that this probably means shit to either of you. You can send me the goods if you want, or a refund. I won't be holding my breath for either. Also, please remove my name, and the link to my defunct bike shop's web page from this page:

http://www.ear-group.net/model_9.html

I wish that I had never ever heard of either Plan B or Peter Grenader.

[dougcl]

LP - Might be best to consider a high road approach and not take it personally if possible. In the end it's just money, goods and services. Whatever else is being thrown about is irrelevant. Tread lightly and remain true to your obligations and you'll succeed.

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

[dkcg]

[jonkull]

All these Plan B threads make me sad.

All I expect from any manufacturer (I'm not even talking Plan B specifically) is that I get what I pay for when I'm told I'm going to get it. That I'm communicated with if it's going to be delayed. That I get a response when I contact them. That defects are repaired in a timely manner. These are simple things that will make me a repeat customer.

Food for thought...The modular 'community' is a small one. My impression is that it's run primarily through word of mouth. It's not like Plan B, Livewire, Deopfer, etc. have millions of dollars in marketing and advertising behind them. Whether you like it or not it's forums like this (and the people that frequent them) that influence people's purchases. I've seen many people over the few months I've been a member here (and elsewhere) build their systems based on recommendations of other forum members.

More food for thought...When I was in my twenties I worked a customer service help line. I wasn't allowed to defend myself or the company because the customer was always right no matter how batshit crazy they were. I would sit on the phone while they screamed at me, try to ignore the negative comments and concentrate on the actual issues they raised and what I could do to resolve them so they'd be happy (and keep paying) when they got off the phone. I agree with what dougcl said about taking the high ground. Being confrontational and defensive is only going to make things worse. You catch more flies with honey.

[Gordon Cole]

its true it is a trombone

[LP]

...please accept my apologies. I cannot change what has already happened. I appreciate everyones suggestions. I would like to move forward and ask anyone who has any issues, no matter how old, how many times they have been brought up before, or those of you whom we have never heard from that have brought their issues only to this blog....I urge you to contact me so we can settle these problems.

I want you to understand that it was never Peters intention to cause you concern. This has been a particularly complex month and while we've not been able to address everyone's order, we have addressed many. There's no use trying to convince you of this with anything but results, so please contact me at thelittleleeper@yahoo so we can do this.

- P

[Kent]

I hesitate in suggesting this, especially as you are making positive moves toward making things right for your customers at this moment; but since we all actually REALLY DO want to see Plan B succeed in some form of long-term capacity, I'd like to suggest that Plan B hook you (as defacto spokeswoman for the company) up with an official EAR or Plan B email address.

Personally, if I were in the situation that the people with issues find themselves in, I wouldn't feel comfortable discussing business via a Yahoo account. Additionally, the term "yahoo" is something that Plan B needs to get as far away from as reasonably possible. I'm not taking a cheap shot at Plan B here; I'm deadly serious about customer perception. It would be preferable to have something official like "Jennifer@PlanB.com" or "OrderFullfilment@..." or "TheBuckStopsHere@..." so that people feel that they are dealing with an organized and accountable organization.


In all earnestness wishing you success,

Kent

Owner of three Plan B modules including a new one that I had to repair myself upon receipt from Noisebug.

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

damnit, and a trumpet doesnt look anything like a trombone

I pulled a tromboner.

[Norman_Phay]

Apologies to you all for getting snotty last night. I was fucking raging, I'll tell you.

[jtclicker]

I'm very new to the list and only joined to find info about some suppliers. After using MAX/MSP for a few years I wanted to build a modular, a large modular, to replicate the way I work in MAX.
I like the Plan B designs a lot, the philosophy and the sound. I wanted/want to build the core of the synth around plan B modules, and I was planning on spending between 3 and 4k euros just on plan B.

But here is what I've learned.
I may have to wait years for modules while reading that others are getting the same things within months.
I may NEVER get the modules.
I may be told 'pay now they are ready to be shipped' to never receive the modules.
If I have a problem it may never be resolved.
My modules may arrive with LEDs or other components missing (BTW and led is pretty important and the module isn't 'fully functional' without it - it is also darn easy to spot)
My emails may never be answered.
An ex plan B dealer is contemplating legal action for non delivery.

This is the impression I'm getting about Plan B. Jennifer, I'm glad you are trying to straighten things out, but IMO forget this stuff about being his girlfriend, and domestic complications. Who cares. If I pay for my modules using an inheritance from my mother who recently died of cancer, would you treat me any differently (not true BTW!)?
I really wish you well, I want to buy your stuff, I still may do from a distributor if I can convince myself any problems that may emerge will be resolved, but you need to realise that Plan B is operating on the fringe of legality - you cannot take money for goods and not deliver them, you cannot say' pay now they are ready to ship' when it isn't true.

I am not a Plan B customer, but I want to be, I, and others like me, are Plan Bs future, but I won't be buying anything until I see basic things like non supply of goods going back years dealt with. And BTW you have a perfect opportunity here, Norman Phay has given a specific grievance about non delivery of goods going back over a year. Are you resolving it? This stuff needs to be publicly seen as the complaints are very public and resolution would go a long way to repairing the damage. You could just go back over the posts on this forum and others and supply the goods people are waiting for

[fridgebuzzz]

Hello All,

I've stayed away from posting in these Plan B threads but after seeing what JTClicker just wrote, I thought I would share.

Full Disclosure:

1) This is my first post here although I have been reading since it became the Analogue Haven message board.

2) I am a former Plan B employee, more specifically, an intern.

In the Summer of 2006 I drove out to LA from NYC to work for Peter and receive college credit for my M.Tech degree. The company was just Peter and Tim J. at that point and we worked out of Peter's living room(exhibit A: http://www.ear-group.net/c388.jpg). I was unpaid and worked there 9-5 for about 6 weeks.

I paid Peter $700+ for module kits that I would build myself (He did this for all employees and this is the same thing Serge did when Peter worked there 30 years ago).

Almost 3 years on, Peter has not sent anything to me except stories and excuses. My requests for a refund have gone unanswered. This is the first time I am going public about this because as JTClicker wrote, it is important for Peter to tie up all loose ends from the past before continuing on with Plan B's future.

On a positive note, I wrote to Jennifer and she responded the same day telling me that she would try and straighten things out. I am hoping this is true but thought it would be a good insurance policy to share my situation with the community.

I think that the first priority for Plan B should be to refund money to all overdue customer orders including Norman Fay and others who have posted here. If the community rallies around this idea, I don't think Peter will be able to ignore the issue any longer.

[e-grad]

[Babaluma]

[mono-poly]

OMG the story's

[Kent]

Hey, Fridgebuzzz, which guy are you and which one of you had the balls to call the hottie on the pink Post-It™ Note in that photo? Are you nearer to or further from the rubber chicken?

Kidding aside; your story sadly comes as no surprise. It's one of the earlier ones and surely not the last one. There is one common denominator to all of these stories and they all are parables with exactly the same message. At this point, it has gone that one extra level lower on the Modular Synth Karma Ladder.

It's mighty revealing how Plan B had so vociferously defended itself over the past several months and everyone was still giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Plan B, if even half of the stories on all of the forums are true; the message is clear and it is as follows: All of the insanity, craziness, bi-polar action/reactions, let-downs, stress, disappointments, fraud, broken promises, outright bullshitting (as opposed to "lying" as defined by the Princeton Professor Dr. Harry G. Frankfurt) and dissolution of business ties all point back to one sole source. It is not a case of 'them'. It is 99.95% internal.

Face up to the reality and make your moves to correct this NOW. Get honest with yourselves. This new gigantic building at The Helms is going to crush you guys. The founder of Plan B needs to get 'real' and honest with his new PR/Customer Relations Manager and dish out the dirt on all of the old stories so that she can go about cleaning things up in a polite, professional & empathic manner.

There is still time to buckle down & turn things around. If I didn't believe this, I wouldn't have bothered posting.

[swordsect]

geez, this is getting really painful to read.....

[fridgebuzzz]

[consumed]

[cebec]

[Sound]

[jonkull]

[Kent]

Nah, can't be... I gave it the benefit of the doubt. Was the journey to CT a mad jaunt for some elective surgery? Nah, can't be.

Actually, he does sign all of his of his "Analog_blog" posts like that.

[Moog$FooL$]

wow!! just wow!!

i thought i'd heard it all on these Plan B stories i've been following, until i just read Fridgebuzzz's tale.

that one truly floored me!!!!



shame on P.G.

[LP]

I understand the frustration and concern that some of you have gone through with Plan-B. I am trying to move forward and handle everyone one at a time so please be patient with me. Give me some room to breath and do the job.

[LP]

Hey, Fridgebuzzz, which guy are you and which one of you had the balls to call the hottie on the pink Post-It™ Note in that photo? Are you nearer to or further from the rubber chicken?

...but thank-you, Kent. I am glad to know you think I am hot.

[Sound]

[Chuck E. Jesus]

oh shit!

[theglyph]

[Chuck E. Jesus]

this thread reminds me: Throbbing Gristle next month

[astroschnautzer]

WTF? This is unbelievable, I thought for a moment that mayby there is some hope for plan b but there isn`t, end of story..

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

I think there is hope.

[perky]

Call me naive, but i have hope

[Malekko]

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

man! LP told me last that I wasnt speaking for others hear and that I had no idea what I was talking about.

I dont think she truly understood at the time how vast this is, I think she does now.

[Sound]

[wetterberg]

[DGTom]

When the going gets wierd, the wierd turn pro.

[Chuck E. Jesus]

i just want to know if Peter G. is his own girlfriend at this point...

[REwire]

Plan-B may be the only thing alive at this point.

Muff, where are you??

[Karina]

[dougcl]

[Cybananna]

[Chuck E. Jesus]

[Chuck E. Jesus]

[thetwlo]

[wetterberg]

[astroschnautzer]

[astroschnautzer]

[2012]

[Muff Wiggler]

man are you kidding me? i'm not comfortable with that, an offer to counterfeit in production modules. that's illegal. please stop making offers like that on this forum, i am getting very tired of this attitude here.

[2012]

[Muff Wiggler]

they way i see it, one of the charges against Peter is that he takes money and doesn't deliver.

no-one has said it, but one way to define behaviour like that is to say that it is theft.

I'm not a judge and cannot say who deserves what in this life.

But I do know that to respond to this behaviour by becoming a thief as well, makes one not any better. So in this case concern about Peter's behaviour is hypocrisy if one is willing to stoop to the level of theft.

I'm somewhat glad to hear that your comment was a joke.

[2012]

and...,if i understand well fridgebuzzz din't even got his kits that he paid for?

so he paid 700+ US to be able to work 6 weeks for Peter lol.

[Muff Wiggler]

that's what I understand as well. It's very upsetting but I'm not willing to debase my morals over it

an eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind

[2012]

hmm yes,I think it should be clear enough now to all potential customers to avoid buying Plan-B via Granader.



swin⋅dle   /ˈswɪndl/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [swin-dl] Show IPA verb, -dled, -dling, noun
–verb (used with object) 1. to cheat (a person, business, etc.) out of money or other assets.
2. to obtain by fraud or deceit.

–verb (used without object) 3. to put forward plausible schemes or use unscrupulous trickery to defraud others; cheat.

–noun 4. an act of swindling or a fraudulent transaction or scheme.
5. anything deceptive; a fraud: This advertisement is a real swindle.


---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

Origin:
1775–85; back formation from swindler < G Schwindler irresponsible person, promoter of wildcat schemes, cheat, deriv. of schwindeln to be dizzy (hence dizzy-minded, irresponsible), defraud, equiv. to schwind- (akin to OE swindan to languish) + -(e)l- -le + -er -er 1

[Luka]

so much serious business on muff these days

[Muff Wiggler]

is there anything new to be said in this thread? I think it's important for people to be able to relate their experiences. We all use the internet to research things we are interested in, and customer/end-user experiences are valuable information.

I'm assuming we've met this need - the value in keeping this thread active is dwindling fast.

I hate locking anything, but I have to say this conversation is draining me, it's wearing me out. Really frustrating.

I feel everything that occurs on this forum reflects on me personally, I'm the guy who provides this platform. It's getting to a point where I'm very uncomfortable with all of this taking place in my house.

I don't like having a negative house.

Please everyone, regardless how you feel about Plan B, can you please do ME a favor? I think you get a lot from me in return for free.

Please, I'm busy, I'm stressed, I'm unhappy seeing this forum spend so much time on negativity.

Can we please calm down and leave this topic alone? For a while anyway?

Let's be optimistic. Let's settle down for a week. Let's see what happens. Let's see if Jennifer can help get things together.

Let's not speculate anymore, let's not bitch anymore. Let's wait and see.

If someone has some specific, topical, new interaction with Plan B they want to relate here, go ahead and post this new information.

I apologize for being a bitch, but my patience for all this is short right now, no fault of your own, I'm travelling overseas and short on sleep and worried about all sorts of complex work stuff. I don't have mental bandwidth to mitigate all this Plan B stuff.

Let's not let Peter's problems create problems for us here at our forum. This is typically a really nice and friendly and helpful place. A couple of threads don't ruin the overall vibe, but there's been SO MUCH FOCUS on these couple of threads lately, it is affecting the overall vibe, and it's upsetting me.

I don't know if I'm explaining myself well here, I appeal to the understanding and humanity that I know is inside of all of you to help me out here.

Let's leave it alone for a while, please.

Please.


Thanks.

[Kent]

2012,

I think that you have made your beliefs known to this audience. How about we all cool our jets (that's to say, "Be cool... Like 3 little Fonzies" - Samuel L. Jackson) for a while and let Plan B go about getting their legs under them & addressing the large assortment of issues at hand.

It's fairly obvious at this point that they brought these issues upon themselves. Let's wait, like Sun Tsu, & watch how they go about preparing for battle in order to attack the issues. The ball is now firmly in their court and they should be allowed some time to re-group & then develop a series of plans for restoring order to world, good faith to their customers & the end to the epic struggle of dolphin vs. tuna.

This is not a call to no longer hold the company responsible for past actions. "Forgive and Forget" is not appropriate here in a large portion of the cases.

A little breathing room, and reflection, is appropriate for all parties at this juncture.

Jah, Rastafari? Irie?

[fluxmonkey]

well said on all counts. there is a positive aspect to communities of folks sharing their experience for the common good... seems like we've done all we can or need to do in that regard. anyone considering buying from peter now has ample information on which to draw their own conclusions. it's a bad situation, and while friends warning friends helps, another 7 pages of anger and resentment (however justifiable) probably doesn't.

thanks as always for all your care and attention, Muff, it is appreciated. it's easy to have compassion for your friends, much harder for those who we don't care for--you're setting a good example. thanks for being such a hospitable host...

onward!
b

[Malekko]

In other news, i spent all evening with an M11 yesterday and it really sounds fantastic!
There are some sweet spots in that filter that simply kick ass!
It's a very unique sounding filter, and i have to say...out of my current filters..it's now one of my favorites.

I considered starting a thread about it but then though, this forum probably doesnt need another Plan B thread right now.

[chinard]

[doctorvague]

[cebec]

[humanfaculties]

I dig my m11 - particularly the bass & low-end freqs, with the res and bandwidth controls appropriately tweaked - gets quite heavy.

[doctorvague]

[bloplop]

this has crossed the line from tragedy to comedy, totally unbelievable. Now all that's left is for someone to bring Peter on one of those daytime courtroom drama shows.

"-P"

[Veqtor]

stop beating on plan b, a lot of companies have had problems these recent months but why are you expecting plan b to not have any problems?

[dougcl]

How about if we respect Muff's request and stop posting to this thread?

[Veqtor]

lock it!

[doctorvague]

[jonkull]

I don't think his post was directed at you.

[Plan B]

Hello Everyone, this is Peter.

Please aim your rocks and tomatoes at my upper extremities. lol!

Seems there are a lot of angry people here, some who have good cause, some who own the gear and are bringing new issues to fore, some of which don't own our gear, have no experience with it and are just hurling for the sake of doing that.

All are justified. Again, we've got some angry people here.

All this is good and I accept all the bad feelings which are being thrown in my direction here...but what I won't accept are insults to Jennifer who is just trying to help out and adding a function to the company which has been sorely lacking which caused this problem in the first place - trying to organize me, and your orders.

So please give her some respect, she's just trying to address the issues you're bringing to light.

I need to address some other items:

1. Jennifer doesn't exist.

We won't get anywhere if this is in question and I've got to say that this is silly. but for those you doubt, here is a picture of both of us:

http://www.ear-group.net/jennandmewestport.jpg

This was taken at the Westport train station on the way to NYC on 2/21 when we were leaving to meet Wendy Carlos in her flat in the Village. It was colder than hell that day. A note to Axel - notice I did in fact get a haircut! lol!

If you need further proof of her comments here, then give me a call at 818 568 0966 and if she's with me I'll hand the phone over to you and she can discuss this thread with you. If she's not with me at the time, I'll have her call you back when she is.

Regarding the infamous "-P":

We are on a very slow wireness network. to speed up typing, Jennifer and I both compose on my email server (Outlook) and copy/paste them into the blog text block at the end. My letters by default add the -P sign-off and my title block at the tail. Jennifer mistakingly grabbed too much and the -P was included in that paste. If you want further proof, we'll do a video - lol!

Can we drop this topic now?

3. To Astroschnautzer

OK. I've done some pretty crappy things in the last five years, but is this comment really necessary?

4. To Babaluma:

Regarding your 'fuck' comment. I charged Paul $700 dollars for modules he was to build. Although he's not yet received these, which is terrible on my part, these were less than wholesale costs...they were material costs only. He came to work for us for a school grade. He did an excellent job and I gave him the best possible grade in exchange. The modules had nothing to do with his work, it was something he and I negotiated and not part of the deal.

Regarding your comment that I lie on my datasheets - could you be more specific? Are you talking about the Model 10 elapsed time which changed when we went to the Mark II or are there other lies you're accusing us of because honestly I am confused.

5. To Monopoly:

No comment to this world-class Plan B hater.

6. To Melekko:

These are truly disturbing photographs which have caused me great concern. If I were you, I would have gone straight to the manufacturer with these problems...but I never heard from you directly, I've not seen these until reading this thread. I understand that this s about the errors I've made and the promises I've broken,...but your issues could have been fixed had you come to us with these obviously sub-standard problems.

7. Regarding my products not working:

I refer to the Adam Henry Policy, paragraph E:

E) We assume that by buying modular musical equipment you are aware of the basic operational techniques of modular synthesis. Some examples of this would be outputs connected only to inputs, inputs connected only to outputs, and proper connection (ribbon polarization) to the power bus. While our equipment may withstand instances when these guidelines aren't followed, this is an exception and we cannot be held responsible for damage which occurs due to operator error as it's not covered by our 1 year manufacturer defects warranty. If you are uncomfortable with this, please do not purchase our equipment.

In closing, there are few words I can say to excuse some of the people that I've mistreated over the last few years. There are many I haven't been so negligent with, possibly some of those may elect to post here (or not). We've fallen behind with M32 reservation deliveries...but we are shipping and a few have received them - Don Kim, James Bently, and John Chamberland being a few of these individuals, but we've not gotten all of them out and I fell in my ass communicating those delays...enter Jennifer.

The repair issue is a mess as we've received a lot without paperwork, which was fine when we were working with Noisebug as Chuck Oken was sending me periodic status letters, but when that partnership came to a close I was left with an organizational nightmare. We've sorted this out (thanks, Jenn) and we have begun once again to return these to their owners...a lot easier now that we know who's modules belonged to who.

So anyway, I'm going back to the bench, and if it makes any difference I spent most of yesterday at work pounding out M32's. I am sorry for the inconvenience I've caused and the people I've let down. We will continue as a company and will continue moving forward, I hope you will jion us.

I leave you in Jennifer's hands, very capable hands indeed.

here is goes again, this time intentionally (lol!)..

- P

[astroschnautzer]

[Sound]

[richard]

Good to hear a word or two from Peter. amidst this shitstorm he is trying to eat some humble pie and put his business back together.

As muff said, give the guy a fucking break, by which is meant "breathing space" not "off the hook" Its gonna be uphill. good luck to him.

i have a model 24,12 and 13 on the go right now - and sounding fantastic


Richard

BTW where's my goddam module Peter, promised tomorrow for the last week?! yeah, still a few little probs to sort out

[Muff Wiggler]

[Muff Wiggler]

[Muff Wiggler]

[krelnarb]

[Muff Wiggler]

[jonkull]

maybe

[jonkull]

Sorry Muff...just thought I'd give you an extra option.

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

[Kakihara]

Hello hello, my first post here but i'm a common reader that have been procrastinating to sing up on another forum for a while! ;P

So sad to hear all the stories, may here must be worried, unhappy and all and I certainly can't and won't judge anybody for that, wether it's Peter or anybody here...

However as a contribution and hopefully, as muff wants, I can say that Jennifer is real... I've spoke to her on the phone!
and as a matter of fact, iM'm real too, Felix knows me, i've helped Soy Sos once with guitar tracks messed up in a A196PLL, exchanged with Richard Lainhardt about some info of the Blindoldfreak tour (as I was part of it), bought some modules from a few different guys on the Doepfer forum, got a cyclotron from Loren Nerell, My cat Sid got a memorial on Matrix Synth in early febuary, etc... so yeah I hope this helps a bit!!

cheers to y'all and I'm happy to be here finally now

g.

[phaedra]

The first step is done, Peter was at the hairdresser and now let him work and Jennifer organize for a while, it will be the best for all sides.

[Plan B]

ASTRO SAID:

Well from the modules I own the model 15 has a fault when it says on the ear-homepage that it can track for 7 octaves with no problem, this is not true, not that I personally mind, I love the oscillator but I know many people isn`t ok with this, then the model 26 productsheet states that it is perfectly good for equally tempered portamento duties, and when sent a mail asking about this when it didn`t do it you said that it is not even designed to do this and its analog and not digital etc... also the model37 doesnt`t really track v/oct even though the product sheet says so...on the model 12, 11 and 9 I havent found any kind of advertising errors. I don`t know of more, havent tried all of the plan b products. I think you cannot denie these facts as a qualified technician that you are.

My comments:

For the record, I do not say you will get seven octaves - Following the procedure listed on the video on the model 15 page, i mention you will start to see problems at about 8 octaves. I know, this is semantics, but bottom line is it wil do seven, if you let the unit temperature stabilize before you do the cal and if you use your ears as a tuning reference. In the vdeo we do six octaves and the pot weas far from it's outer rail.

We ship at five octave calibration only because this sort of tracking is so dependent on the specific power supply voltages of each system. There's no way to set this sort of tracking without each user's specific rail voltages, so we don't try.

Re the model 26...this is exactly the same circuit used in the Doepfer system, both of which coming from Electronotes. I believe this is what I explained in the letter, no? If not, please do call this to our attention.

Re the Model 37 tracking:

Is surely does track ... for about three octaves. we do not set it up this way however for the same reasons we do not ship the M15 at 7 octaves. There are two trimpots on the M37. The one closest to the edge of the board adjusts the triangle symmetry. It is extremely important that this be set before the tracking is attempted. Get out your scope, set the M37 to triangle, sety ythe freq to about 1K and adjust the trimmer so the rise and fall are of equal value. Next ting is the second trimmer. Turn it clockwise until you're good for about three octaves. This is a modern adaptation of the TAO-1005 VCO circuit, which does in fact track to 1 volt/octave. We added the syncing to this original design which was a bit of a bitch to pull off based on how the circuit oscillates.

Remember,r the M37's first task is that of an LFO. The fact that it does go into the super audio range is a perk and the fact that it only tracks three octaves a further perk. It was dsigned though to be an LFO but can act as a sort of utility VCO...thus only three octaves - AND THIS S WHAT I'VE SAID ALL ALONG.

Hope this helps and I swear this is the last post I'm making as Jennifer will be filling in from now on.

- P

[Leisure Cove]

[Hi5]

Haven't seen this thread till recent but I will chime in as one person who has had no problems with Plan B or their modules outside of waiting for the Model 32. Peter even personally delivered a model 39 to big city with a blank faceplate just to have everything ship at one time for me as they were not in stock anywhere. I own the following modules all of which are and have been in perfect working order since day one.

model 15 = 2x
model 10 = 2x
model 11
model 12
model 13 = 2x
model 14
model 23
model 24
model 25
model 37 = 3x
model 38

This seems to not be everyone's experience but I just wanted to state that there are modules and customers out there without problems. Sure there are issues to work out but I find the modules well worth the wait and look forward to more from Plan B.

b.labycz

[droolmaster0]

I am absolutely all for giving Peter a chance to get this sorted out. I only posted here and on ah when I had reached the point of despair, and had given up on ever receiving my Milton, and ever having a promise kept. So - the deal is - sure - get it sorted out. But if I still don't receive it, I will post again.

[Plan B]

OK, I lied about it being my last post.

To Sound:

What is so 'unbelievable'? Let's skip the drama and just tell me what I've said that's so shocking. I've f'd up, Jennifer thankfully has jumped in to help get things on track on the administrative side, we're addressing this.

To Melekko:

Our modules will not short out against others they are next to in a rack. I do not understand at all where this comment is coming from but I'd love to hear which you're speaking of specifically. The new module 15's PCBs are dead equal with theledge of the board on one end, but there are no conductive materials at that edge, only the PCB FR4 material.

If you're saying the module will short if it comes in contact with another faceplate...yes, of course it will. Aluminum is conductive. f it comes in contact wth live electronics a short will occure between the points which are touching that material. I didn't invent electrons...i just use them in my work (lol!)

A question though: where did you purchase the M26 with the missing LEDs? Please send a photo as I need to dig into this. I've never tested a unit like this and I would like to see the PCB pads for the LED to verify that there's never been reflow on them. if this is the case, then this assembly made it to our finished goods without going through test and the only way that would happen if the unit you received had no knobs on it, because I personally put them on after they are tested and only if they pass test. This is the safegard we have in play to stop this from happening.

[astroschnautzer]

[REwire]

I want to add info to those wondering if Plan-B modules can be trusted. I first got a Model 15 3 1/2 years direct from Peter then 15 Plan-B modules since from AH, Noisebug and Big City Music. Never had a problem that wasn't my fault for stepping on or plugging in backwards.

I really think Plan-B is why this forum even exists. When I started in Eurorack, Plan-B was the only alternative to Doepfer, ASys and Asolutions. There's been humungous growth in Euro since then but Peter's innovation, homage to Serge and Buchla, interest by pros and inspiration to others is why Euro took over as dominant format and why everyone is making Eurorack now.

Still, after all this time, the Model 15 is the best osc I've ever heard. I can't even get a vintage osc into my system that sounds that much better or can fool me in A/B tests.

- D

[jonkull]

I believe Malekko had a Model 17 that was missing LEDs not an M26.

http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3418&highlight=

[Muff Wiggler]

[Malekko]

Peter, nice to hear from you.
In regards to your comment about taking up these issues with you, would you like me to dig up all my sent emails..or you could just search under my name Joshua holley

In regard to the M11, you have the toggle resting to the backside of a PCB, on the other side of the PCB is a vactrol. The side that you solder the vactol in is touching the metal case of the toggle...if the M11 is not racked, it will not short to ground, but as soon as it touches another faceplate from a module next to it it will short to ground. causing no audio... I fixed one yesterday and i would be happy to make a video of the other one doing what i just said, if you dont believe me.

[REwire]

[Muff Wiggler]

uh, Doepfer, Livewire, Cewjman, MFB, Plan B... yes Shawn @ AH

seems pretty crazy to me to say "Plan B is why this forum exists" but whatever makes you happy dude.

I think a look at the pics in the "Show pics of your Euro systems" thread and a rough survey of the percentage of modules represented by various manufacturers should give a pretty good idea that the momentum behind the format is a result of multiple manufacturers supporting a common format. And who got that format up and running? I think it would have to be Doepfer if you really want to say "Oh this one company is why we are all here"

but i think it's a bizarre thing to say, no matter what company you want to use inside that sentance.

[Kent]

Dan, maybe Plan B is the reason that you got into 'Euro' & that's all fine and dandy.

Outside of yourself, there are other people that started for other reasons and that's mighty fine as well. I started with Analogue Solutions & Analogue Systems & Doepfer... the triumvirate that put the 'European' into 'Euro'. I've got ASol modules that were DISCONTINUED 10 years ago.

[REwire]

No, of course Plan-B is not resposnsible for the format or many users before and after he came along. I am speaking about Plan-B being the first boutique Euro maker. Livewire was next. I remember Peter showing me Mike's prototype Frequensteiner he helped him with. I saw the first two prototype Cwejmans at the 2006 NAMM.

I've seen the sales and popularity rise after these boutique companies started getting pictures on EM covers, in pros racks and more general press and net buzz. Boutique brought Euro out of cheap modules for little fingers status.

So whether or not you wanna credit Plan-B with being the boutique starter is up to you. Would Euro be on top if it was the same three European makers only all these years?

[Plan B]

Still telling lies here:

Astro - you are contradicting yourself a bit. You say you use your ears to verify proper tuning, yet you're mentioning it being out 10 cents as a reference how badly it's out of tune and mention you're using a tuner. If you can hear this delta then you are among the elite, as the best of the best ears can only pull 5 cents. I guess you're accusing me that I intentionally skipped one of the octaves when doing the video, and I assume you're saying that octave was grossly out of tune? I cannot defend against this allogation, I will let it rest as well.

you also said:

(the m37 is secondhand experience, that is based on talk with other users, but I have no reason to suspect it is not true)

Oh...she said/he said? This is a disappointing detail which was left out of your original thread posting, yet I have no reason to suspect this was intentional.

lol!

[Plan B]

I need to clarify...i meant I am still telling lies by saying that I was signing out...i wasn't trying to say you're telling lies, I wouldn't necessarily call your comments that.

[Norman_Phay]

Peter, while you're here, can I ask some advice. I have to rather shamefacedly admit that yesterday I plugged the M10 in back to front (I was usinag a Doepfer busboard I bought) and I screwed it. The LED lights up, but it's putting out constant voltage, whcih varies w/the output knob. I replaced the 072 and 074 to no avail. Do you (or for that matter does anyone else) have any suggestions.

Like Gene, for all the immense annoyance I've felt, I do wish you success with getting it on the rails and I hope you keep it there if you do. I think plenty of ppl here do as well, actually. If your line wasn't so good and if you were a complete asshole nobody would care, I think?

[Chuck E. Jesus]

[brandon daniel]

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

reWire... just stop already.

[spbaker]

In fear of being branded an Adam Henry, and since Peter is here (or Jennifer) and responding to posts I was hoping you (or Jennifer) could respond to one of my emails regarding the faulty headphone preamp and model 10 that was sent back to you on the 5th Feb via noisebug.
I'm sorry to resort to contacting you via the forum but its frustrating getting no response to at least 8 emails I have sent to you regarding this issue.
regards Scott Baker

[dkcg]

To be fair to those new here who might be reading this thinking that PlanB is only full of horror stories and QC problems...
I have over 2 dozen PlanB modules bought new, mostly from Noisebug, a couple from Peter direct, and I have no problems with my modules other than occationally a cliffjack nut is loose (easily tightened by my fingers), and a Model 10 that I may have messed up by sending a signal to the cycle gate and trigger at the same time (found out later that that is a no-no), but it still self cycles with one patch cable.

I saw Peter after work about a week ago, he was testing ASRs and Model 11's when I saw him. A couple had problems, and he was troubleshooting them when I showed up. He was also working on Model 32's...I saw a bunch of partially assembled ones that looked like they were in production. He's not sitting around surfing the web, slacking off, counting all your money, etc. He's one guy trying his best to make a ton of people happy, and hopefully he will.

Yes, Jennifer is a real breathing woman and not Peter. For you naysayers.

[theglyph]

I tried to post a Youtube vid but no luck!

The link below is how I've been feeling about this thread!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98T3PVaRrHU

[Jari Jokinen]

Regarding specs:

I have had six Plan B modules. M10, M12, M13, M14, M15 and M23.

Specs not met:
M10 max envelope time (3 minutes VS 10 minutes, as given at the time of purchase)
M13 bleed (30-50 mV VS less than 1/3 mV)
M15 tracking (Verbal description)
M23 drift rate (8 mV/second VS 2 mV/second. Drift was not mentioned at the time of purchase.)
M23 delay before drift begins (None VS 5 seconds)

I have no experience with the other modules mentioned by astroschnautzer.

[bar|none]

Weekly Inbox Summary Report.

I for one would love some action on other threads.

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

holy shit!

[theglyph]

[REwire]

[theglyph]

[Muff Wiggler]

most certainly NOT dead

[LDT]

Oh, and I ate brunch at Plan-B in Copenhagen the other day. A nice place actually. Described as "quirky beer bar":


Anyway, it is an uphill struggle for Plan-B at this moment, but my hopes are that not only will Plan-B be back and running, but also that it will in many ways become a better company. Every crisis comes with a gift in its hand.

Of course I say this only for selfish reasons as I want to order some modules when the dust have settled.

[jtclicker]

me too! I've another 5-6 weeks to wait before I'm in a position to put together my euro rack and I really want Plan B to be sorted! I simply love the designs

[fonik]

[Muff Wiggler]

I'M THERE RIGHT NOW! Took that picture yesterday.

[astroschnautzer]

[LP]

"I like many of them but I´m not going to buy your modules anymore, there are many alternatives."

There certainly are and we thank you.

[LP]

I've just had a look on the ASR datasheet and we do in fact give an indication of the drift and what causes it:

Functional Conventions

The Model 23's SMP04 high performance quad Sample & Hold chip assures accurate distribution of voltages sequenced across the output taps within 1mv. This introduces exceptional improvement on other ASR's currently available in this regard. However, in accordance with the specs of the SMP04, if a tap is held for more than 5 or so seconds the Model 23 may exhibit a slight rise in output voltages across all taps at a rate of approx. of 2mv per second.

The lessened overall time on the Model 10 I'm told has been talked about. It's due to the Mrk II changes. Peter said retrggering comes at a cost, but you can still expect envelopes up to 6 to seven minutes long on average. I've looked into this and this is much longer than most are capable of. We need to change that spec on our page, but is seven minutes bad?

Model 15 tracking - after getting the info on what exactly this is, Peter mentioned that iton par if not better than the range of most keyboards and performs like other VCOs without a range switch which allows for internal circuit changes which control the tracking. The Model 15 he said is not for everyone, especially not for those who use their keyboards as the main controller...best to stick to Doepfer (sp?) for that.

[astroschnautzer]

[chinard]

[astroschnautzer]

Yes its analog and tracking is not perfect, ofcourse. Product descriptions should however not give false information or exaggerate the functions, even if it is analog. Good that big city music has addressed this.

[jonkull]

[chinard]

[jonkull]

Yes but even the description in the link you quoted says "6.5 to 7 octaves shouldn't be a problem"

Again I don't care about tracking so much. I'd use digital if I did. However I can see how some people would be annoyed with their M15s tracking less octaves.

[chinard]

man, all this talking about oscillators makes me want to go home from work early and make some noise!

[jonkull]

Tell me about it. I've only been at work an hour and I can't wait to get home and in front of the modular.

[otherunicorn]

Observations from one of the double sided board variants I saw of this oscillator - the tempco resistor, a small surface mounted device, was under the expo transistor pair, but there was an air gap between it and and the transistors. They should be in thermal contact. The result would be temperature drift, and the symptomatic fault that tracking adjustments made at Plan-B would not be adequate for anything but the temperature at which the module was adjusted.
It might pay for people to see if theirs suffer from a similar oversight.

[LP]

Expo in thermal contact with tempco.

I spoke to Peter about this and this is a general misconception of the what he called the 'tempco/expo pairing". the goal is not that they are in contact so that heat from one bleeds onto the other, the goal is that they are exposed to the same environmental conditions, so their physical closest to one another is important to get the best possible results. this is a quote:

'They must remember that the temperature of the outside of the case of the expo converter is of little relevance. it's the temp at the chip inside the case..the transistor itself and this is never going to be the same as the outside of the case. the tempco adjusts the resistance coming from the summer which changes the frequency of the VCO,. If it sees the same temperature variations as the expo, then it adjusts the 1mv/oct going into it along with the expo's reaction to the same temperatures. The fact that I place the tempco underneath the expo is that the chip inside the case is at the bottom of the packkage, therefor these two are as close as they possibly came be. but their contct is not important and will not effect the results."

so it seems that the fact they are not touching is not going to improve things. Peter suggested that if anyone needs more information on this they should either take Electronotes volume 1 or the SDIY mail list for a reference.

[Scaff]

LP = PG ?

[e-grad]

Their physical closest is their physical contact!

BTW Given the idea Jennifer is real and new to synth circuits it's quite strange that she's contradiciting to one of the most respected circuit designer just after some conversation with P.G.

[BugBrand]

[indexofmetals]

jennifer, i've sent you a pm on this forum (doesn't appear to be read) plus an email in past couple of days regarding an adsr & v/c add-on modules that were sent back as they weren't working - can you let me know if you've rec'd them or if you need me to resend them

Richard, Isle of Man

[spbaker]

again i patiently ask you Jennifer (or Peter or any of the Plan B staff) to contact me regarding the emails and PM i have sent you over the past few days regarding the modules i have in for repair.

i find it hard to understand (and extremely frustrating) that you would defend PG's modules before contacting people with outstanding issues that you said you would address as part of helping PG & Plan B. i sincerely hope it is an oversight, but that seems implausible as richard/indexofmetals seems to be experiencing the same situation.

you can either respond directly to my emails or PM me via this forum.

[phaedra]

Jennifer, Peter, I also asked three times in the past few days for my three modules to get a date when I will get them back. You wanted to send the package together with the paid Model 32, but this information is more than two weeks old and I was #21 (M32 order) and #18 was just in work. That have been your words. Please answer on pm or here, but answer.

[LP]

Scott, Phaedra, Richard,,,

I've contacted some of you in personal emails and will continue to do this today. Sorry for not getting back to all of you instantly, I came into work with Peter to do this but he kidnapped me to help finish the Model 32's instead! We've got 15 on the verge of shipping after his work last weekend. For the record, the rest of them will be distributed by Big City Music and those of you who placed reservations will be contacted by them and your reservation will remain in play.

I would prefer not to address everyone's issue in this forum. While it's our business, it's not everyone else's and out of respect for Mr. Muff I'd like to keep it that way. Please give me a couple of days to review these with Peter and I will get back to each of you.

Along with the Vector Plotter's there is one Wave Splicer that I made last week (..and it worked, yay!) which went off to Big City Music. You'll know if you get it because I signed the back of the faceplate! I like soldering a lot.

We've shipped 112 units to Big City Music since I've arrived in Los Angeles and will be throwing a lot more their way once the large ordr of PCBs arrive.

[GCF]

[LDT]

Check the forum header: cats and modular synths, but mostly....

[Leisure Cove]

Good one, Muff.

[D/A A/D]

Wow, I go away for a few weeks and the world falls apart...

[spbaker]

ok rant warning, if yr gonna cry and say "why don't you just leave them alone" you may want to stop reading, but after a year of Plan B frustration and anger I feel I have earned the right to say my piece. Mr Muff, I am sorry for this to happen on your wonderful forum, but please know that after this post I will post no more about Plan B and will get back to my usual programing of positivity and joy

[SynthBaron]

[Norman_Phay]

Hey Jay.

I was going to email you about something (unrelated to this thread).

Fuck if I can remember what it was though.

[SynthBaron]

synthbaronATdenonvillDOTcom if you want.

[SynthBaron]

But really, how many years has Peter had to get his shit together? Comon.

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

[Gordon Cole]

[NV]

-=- pl4y t3h tr0mb0n3 -=-

[richard]

I am amazed that nobody said "no they're not dead, they just smell funny!"

I've been waiting for days, what's wrong with you people?


Richard

[VanEck]

Welp, I just got back my Model 9 after being in repair for 2 months... and the 4th channel still does not work.

Thanks for wasting my time.

Plan B is definitely dead to me and our band.

[Sound]

[Sound]

[astroschnautzer]

[Reese P. Dubin]

PETER,

Save your business and soul, and start offering your deisgns AS KITS.

This should be pretty obvious at this point. It seems that the build quality is dodgy at best, and anyone on staff should never CELEBRATE the fact that a module they just finished ACTUALLY WORKS.

There is a huge market desire for PlanB modules, and you can obvioulsy not fill the orders that you take. Put this shit out as MOTHERFUCKING KITS ALREADY. I will do a better job at night after work putting these together for myself than a kid who is learning to solder on the job, and is under palpable pressure to GET IT DONE.

Sure you want to maintain control over your designs, but soon they will be as consigned to the dustbin of history for lack of ability to satisfy the most basic customer needs. Take Blacet as an example, finished modules are available alongside beautifully organized KITS. The price is not that much less than finished work, copyrighted scematics come with the kits, and i cant say I have ever seen a black market version of any of John's designs.

Also thanks for NEVER returning any of my emails from the times when i had hoped to start building a PB system, you saved me a load of heartache.

ON WITH THE KITS

MM

[tragedybysyntax]

this is so sad..... I want that new model 30 or whatever triple digital osc. Sounds gnarly as shit... but I would never buy anymore plan b stuff at this point. Done.

[Moog$FooL$]

[Leisure Cove]

+1 for the kits idea.

I would buy a Plan B kit in a heartbeat, provided there was an active Troubleshooting forum (ala Curious Inventor, BYOC) or readily available customer support (ala Paia, Blacet) in place as well. Both of which are doable!

Plan B kits-- everyone wins!

EDIT: I mean kits in addition to fully-built modules. I'm in favor of all manufacturers offering their modules in kit form. There is a serious lack of Euro-format kits out there!!

[LP]

Because I am a woman? You guys should be ashamed of yourself.

[parasitk]

Wait what.

[Malekko]

[Gordon Cole]

[Gordon Cole]

[Gordon Cole]

[Sound]

[Plan B]

Scott.

I am sorry if my three sentences were not enough to cover the business at hand, especially given they ended with 'your modules will ship Friday'. You asked for a response to your email, you got one and you complain further...plus you're discussing the contents of a private mail sent to you in a public forum. And who exactly has a long road to travel before they're good again? Please remind me because honestly I am confused as this is unacceptable on all counts...but it doesn't matter does it...you're not the one being judged in this tribunal...I am, right? So you can say anything you wish. I apologize for forgetting the rules.

But of all your statements, it's a assertion that Jennifer is unqualified to solder which has me giggling hardest. From which point of expertise are you speaking down to her? How do you know she isn't qualified, how do you know she hasn't before, where does your authority come from in this matter?

I am questioning if it would be better if I just return your goods unrepaired as it's clear you are doubting our ability to repair them to your satisfaction. Since you're so into public humiliation, I am asking for a public apology to Jennifer for your short sighted comments and we will complete your repair once it is received. To me this seems like the best solution.

Synthbaron: I think you have already forfeit your qualifications to speak about unfair transactions. It would be best if you not touch the subject now.

We are happy to take part in a constructive exchange with our customers. This thread has eclipsed that and we are done with it. Free free to talk amongst yourself if there is any possible topic that hasn't been covered in this thread, but if it remains a tribunal, then do it alone.

- P

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

[parasitk]

[phaedra]

[Plan B]

Van Eck,

I have repaired one Model 9 in the last three months. It was for Prometheus Burning. It was returned four days after you sent your return address so we could do that (assuming this is you). It was in our shop for exactly three week and two days, not two months as you mention (again assuming it was you). The channel four jack was replaced for you, this s the only problem it had and it worked when it shipped back to you. You need to understand that Cliff jacks are touchy and many plugs don't work properly with them. Try others. We have received no email from you since March 20th, it had no mention of this problem. Regardless of what may seem the best method of communication, coming to public forum is not it, but I'm glad I was able to help you make your point to the group.

[det3]

[Plan B]

DET,

Jennifer arrived in Los Angeles on Sunda, March 22. Your assuming that she has not undergone solder training and I'm questioning how to got this information.

And for clarification, I said our rework methodology followed MIL STD guidelines, nothing more. Your observations are unfounded. For your information we spray our bins with antistat materials. Those who handle CMOS use wrist wraps. Static sensitive parts are kept in nickel plated bags in their storage bins until they are inserted into PCBAs.

Your analysis of the photo of the Model 32 is an exercise in poor forensics. Your assuming the board was on, you're assuming the Pepsi was open and uncapped, your making a point it would be worse if solvent was in that vessel. For information sake, we don't use solvents as our solder is water soluble and this is what we use for cleaning.

The trash can analogy is over the edge. And if it helps, these aren't french fries, they're chips from the Mexican restaurant which was on the next bloc - lol!.

For six years while employed by various firms as an engineering tech and further as a manager at Fairchild, Tandon and Western Digital, my sole purpose in life was standards qualification. First with UL, then a companywide ESD program for both Fairchild and Tandon. Further, I wrote the PCBA and PCB workmanship Standards for Tandon and Western Digital. I was the sole quality interface with IBM Boca Raton when WD was producing all of the harddrive controller PCBAs for the PC XT, at a time when IBM accounted for over 70% of the company's revenues.

You want to talk about these matters? Please bring it on.

[Sound]

[Gordon Cole]

[ach_gott]

I never received any such training and my DIY modules sound sooooooo good. Just sayin'.

[Plan B]

ach_gott.

Exactly and the percentage of people currently making analog synths both professionally and privately who have had that certification can be counted on one hand.

[det3]

[det3]

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

[Plan B]

DET,

With the greatest respect please let me say why don't you worry why you bring things up and I'll worry why I bring things up. My phraseology or the risk of an appending lawsuit is not only far fetched but of little consequence. Further, violations to MIL STDs are not a civil matter and I have never heard of anyone being sued for a violation of an incorrect appraisal. Thank you for the offer but we need no apologies, a fair appraisal is all we could ask and I don't think we got one. You were making assumptions and we can't respond to that. - P

[Plan B]

"oh its already been brought-ed! "

I'm glad to provide your daily entertainment! Someday maybe we can all laugh at you!

[Norman_Phay]

I'll be at the 4561055 number tomorrow, from 12midday-about 4.30 GMT, I'm at the 544967 number for the next hour, if you feel like talking to me and addressing my outstanding order, Peter.

[REVIVER]

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

[consumed]

[Gordon Cole]

[Gordon Cole]

[Johnisfaster]

I can't help but chime in now and then just to watch the train wreck.

seriously though, go make some modules Pete. the more you chit chat here the more you tell us that you'd rather screw around on the forum with your ego typing most of the words than actually go to work and make product thats already been paid for. save your business, I'd love to see it quite honestly. I wish no one to fail. but chit chatting here isn't helping you. Go build modules, send them out to everyone whos paid with a letter of appology, and even then you'll probably still have lost a customer, but it's worth a try...

ask LP if she thinks you should make modules or talk to kids on the forum. what do you think LP? make modules or talk to people online?

[droolmaster0]

I think that it is common for gender prejudice to show up in synth forums. I know that some people might ridicule me for this, but the prevalence of scantily clad females w/synths, and the tone of many of those posts definitely show a an assumption (which can certainly become self fulfilling) that these forums are for guys, and women aren't really welcome or respected.

On the other hand, I interpreted Jennifer's post, quoted awhile back, to imply that she wasn't experienced in soldering. That's how it reads, and in the general context of her being brought into this, how she is helping Peter, etc, I don't think that this is a sexist interpretation.

And on the third hand, I can understand how women will infer this attitude because it does exist in our society and is prevalent. So, I think that, in this case, people have to understand that she has probably met this attitude often, but then she has to understand how her posts and context have understandably been interpreted. Whether she is indeed experienced at soldering? I don't know - that really hasn't explicitly been stated, but the assumption that she isn't can be inferred from her posts.

[droolmaster0]

All sorts of issues being raised here, not necessarily directly connected. As far as the QA issue, I cannot personally comment, since I've only used a couple of plan b modules, liked them and had no problems, and sold them when I converted over to a banana system. I don't doubt that some people have had issues, and almost everyone (Peter obviously included) knows more about the technical issues here than I do. I have trouble puttling anything together....

But the commonality in most of this is the communication from Plan B. Yes - there has been some effort made to fix the issues and communicate with people, though as far as I can tell, there are certainly people to whom substantive communication has not been made yet. I'm willing to give it a little time in my case.

However, what Peter doesn't seem to really get is how angry this lack of communication, and the attitude that tends to be exhibited when communication is made, has really pissed people off. Why should I give Peter the benefit of the doubt after so many unreturned phone calls, email messages, and promises broken? I am fucking pissed off. I have absolutely no wish to continue a grudge - this whole thing has just caused me stress. I'd love to drop it. But every time I'm promised a shipment the next day, the next week, that day, etc, and every time I go through weeks unable to get in touch at all (I've given up on that part), it just reinforces my perception that there is a SERIOUS problem on the integrity front. Integrity is something that we interpret in a person - it's not something you can measure objectively. What are some of the things that we use to judge someone's integrity - do they live up to their commitments, do they honor their word, do they speak the truth.

I'd love for you to prove me wrong Peter. Simply fix things, or admit when you can't. I don't think that you intentionally rip people off, but I think that you don't do the simplest thing that others do when dealing with the world - it's what makes some people 'good traders'. You need to apply the golden rule. How would YOU react when people mistreat you? You don't seem to react very well, so I'd imagine that you'd be incensed if you were your own customer.

You need to stop projecting this attitude that you are being persecuted, understand where people are coming from, and fucking fix it.

[Johnisfaster]

[mattyc]

I too have been a reader and have never chimed in uuntil now. Pardon my French, but not seen such bullshit in my life. I'm probably one of the youngest people inthis forum and ican't belive how stupid most of you are.

Droolmaster..youbring up good points, but he's already done everything you suggest, yet thesestupid comments keep coming and now you all look like a bunch whining babies who don't know when to stop even after the punk you're beating up is black and blue. some of the things ur all talking about are stupid and it screams of vendetta. Ur angry we got that. What in the f will it take you to calm down that they've not done because they've already apologized, put a new person in charge to talk to people and now your complaining about her. That's B.S. the part about solder qualification is lame. If I were her i'd tell you to f off

Norman both jennifer and peter have said they won't respond to requests made here and your giving us your phone number and Scott ur such a whiner because they responded to you and your still bitching at him here. Wtf dude? Monopoly your one liner comments are so errogant peter is totally right I've seen u bitch like this everytime plan b is mentioned anywhere.

Seems to me you guys don't want them to suceed and u aren't going to stop until yoy put them out of business and its a joke because I think you think you have the influence to do that. They are making more analog modular than anyone in the US you really think you have that kind of clout? He's made some bad things but he's admitted it and has put people in charge of other things he was screwing up on and not one of you have accepted his apology. Muff your blog is boring you need to know when a subject is dead and do something about it.

[REVIVER]

[Johnisfaster]

you know it really isn't helpful when you show up and call everyone stupid. if you want to make a point you should try to do it constructively the way you're expecting us to do so. point being : act the way you want us to act.

[Sound]

Is a troll, guys. don't replay him.

[consumed]

[Johnisfaster]

is there an emoticon for a golf clap?

apparently there is

[Johnisfaster]

awwwww muffwiggler took his response away. it was a good one, now that clapping emoticon means nothing. NOTHING!

[Muff Wiggler]

[parasitk]

Yeah Muff, this is a boring blog.

[Plan B]

Again assuming we aree talking about the Model9 belonging to Prometheus Burning, I arrived to work today too two angry employees. Both of which are members of MuffWiggler. The faulure was isolated to a faulty channel 4 input jack. Not wanting to run the risk of ruining the board, Sam went ahead and replaced the entire input jack board - that is 4 new cliff jacks. And I remember this next part. I asked how the PB Model9 is doing, Sam announced that it was repaired and boxed up and ready to ship. I wanted to verify this so I unboxed it and retested it myself and it was functioning perfectly. Also, take note, I purposely used the inexpensive Doepfer cables on my test osc. which are notorious for making poor contact with cliff jacks and do this knowiing it is a worst case scenario. The unit worked, so this must not be pbs model9 and this is the only one I have repaired in over two months.

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

[Sound]

[Johnisfaster]

[droolmaster0]

[Sound]

Also, well read all the threads refering you in this forum as well in the analogue heaven e-lists, just put your name in the browser, and you will read that you owe a lot of money to diferent people.

Please, dont try again to minimize, show yourself as the victim, deviate, the main of the thread.

[SynthBaron]

Wow, all this drama in one day. I'm hooked.

[Reptil]

a kit is a brilliant idea!

[GeneralBigBag]

All this thread needs is somebody likening another to the Nazis and we're done.

[Reptil]

ah you mean Godwin's law?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

you just evoced it yourself.

[Lillian_Gish]

[Johnisfaster]

[dougcl]

[Johnisfaster]

[dougcl]

[Muff Wiggler]

MIL SPEC/NASA standards ftw

[mono-poly]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9js1eGZJK0&feature=related

[brandon daniel]

[Johnisfaster]

[Reptil]

[suitandtieguy]

[Norman_Phay]

I watched that live on TV. It was awful. I love NASA.

[consumed]

[Muff Wiggler]

i agree completely Norman.

I took it even harder when the Columbia broke up over Texas a few years ago. I had met the STS-2 crew and touched the vehicle when I was a child (following the historic second flight) and it was one of the most influential events in my entire life.

[mattyc]

sound thank you for proving my point. we all know your agenda here uv said it again and again and again and again and again and zzzzzzzzzzzzzz. and you don't want to see it improve because your ignoring his responses. hes not acting like a victem, he's abmitting the problems and it seems this bugs you. you call me a troll i call you a coward.

reviver i'm 19 how old are you because making fun of my SPELLING even to me seems immature.

[Scaff]

[REwire]

[dougcl]

[Johnisfaster]

I was pretty young so it's hard to remember exactly, but I'm pretty sure I watched the challenger explode live on tv when I was in a class full of kids. needless to say a lot of kids got upset. but it was so long ago I'm not even sure if I'm remembering that correctly...

[Muff Wiggler]

[suitandtieguy]

this thread is like the Hai Guyz! franchise for the MW forum:

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2047486

[Norman_Phay]

[Muff Wiggler]

no way! I can't ban people like that, there's too much entertainment factor from keeping them around.


Remember that guy who imploded with the big pink picture of hilarity? That shit is priceless. You can't make it up.

No ban hammer commeth.

[Norman_Phay]

Probably, you're right!

(really, I just wanted an excuse to post that "banhammer commeth" jpg coz I love it so much)

[Johnisfaster]

[parasitk]

[jonkull]

Who could forget? That was some funny shit...

[indexofmetals]

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

[Johnisfaster]

[indexofmetals]

can everyone just keep quiet and we try and get some real issues sorted?

the plan b yahoo list is a waste of time at the moment (same with several other yahoo synth lists)

muff isn't going to allow any other plan b topics

a sorta 2nd chance for plan b to step up to the plate and answer things constructively with constructive responses maybe?

if that doesn't happen, feel free to flame away and I'll write off my modules off for repair (or not to repair) as bad choices

maybe a 24 hour armistice?

you can take me out of canada but you can't take canada out of me

[Johnisfaster]

I feel you indexofmetals, but honestly do you expect any help from pete at this point? realistically?

I'll do my part and hush down so you can try to get things sorted though, but seriously I'd be more likely to expect a horse to run me over than expect to get some customer service out of plan B at this point.

[REwire]

Here's a recent Plan-B thread that's appropriate so they're not completely banned:

http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4126

Specific about modules, not just ranting. This topic was a rant/joke topic from the start, let it ride.

[Muff Wiggler]

THIS POST IN PLACE OF ABOUT 20 'funnay' PICTURES I JUST DELETED



STOP POSTING OFF-TOPIC BULLSHIT HOPING TO GET THE THREAD LOCKED

it's not going to work. I pay for this place out of my pocket, and I work hard on it for all you people. I don't like being told what to do or what to think, and I don't like being manipulated into making a move I wouldn't have made otherwise.

Attempts to hijack this thread or obscure the relevance of this thread won't work.

It's to be expected of "Mr. 1-post newbie troll moron", there's nothing to do about that but laugh.

But those of you who are members here, if you don't like this topic, ignore it. The more stupid posts I have to delete the more annoyed I get, but the more likely I am to delete your off-topic posts. A few are always OK, this is a goofy and fun-hearted forum. But when they become a floodng tactic, I'm not going to accept it.

This is a serious thread. There are some serious concerns about Plan B from their actual paying customers. These customers have no other venue to raise these concerns, and the company seems to have little concern with addressing these issues and making good. Damn right people are pissed off.

I've made it clear that I won't allow more Plan B threads to pop up, there's two or three now and that's enough.

But, for the people who have received broken modules, modules that don't work as advertised..... . moreso for the people who have given money or products (for repair) to the company and get no response at all..... for the people who were promised a product, a return, a contact email, a refund and are left in the dark...

these are serious concerns. Serious customer service concerns. Serious professionalism concerns. These people deserve a venue.

For those accused, to be able to comment back, to try to resolve the situation, or (sadly) to simply call their accusers assholes, they deserve a venue.

Again, attempts to force a lock or obscure the issues at hand won't work.

The only question is, how much of my time will you consume forcing me to admin this, to ensure the topic stays clear enough for the discussion to continue? Hopefully less than the last hour has suggested.

[Reese P. Dubin]

[richard]

"Scott, Phaedra, Richard,,,

I've contacted some of you in personal emails and will continue to do this today."

please do Peter, please do. I've been trying to be a give-the-guy-a-break voice of reason on this wretched thread for long enough. But when neither you nor Jennifer even answer your emails, its gets harder...

And if you must know, i seriously think you gain nothing by venting here. Half these people are just bailting you because they know you can't resist. The less you participate in this thread and the more modules and emails you send out to actual customers the better for everyone

I want to believe,

because your shit is basically really good

Richard[/url][/code]

[BananaPlug]

[pleaseohplease]

greetings fair people of the internet.

my name is joey and i work at plan b.

let me preface this by saying that i am glad this topic started. things were in bad shape and this forum really helped to open peter's eyes.

now the reason for this post:

i come to assure you all that the purpose of this thread has succeeded. peter gets the point. i can personally tell you that further postings, regardless of content or pictures (even the cute japanese ones), will only serve to hinder the progress that we all hope to see. today at work he was so bothered by all of this that he wasn't able to work as productively as possible.

for all those who would like to keep things positive and let peter crawl out of the hole he's dug himself into...why not just let this thread rest for a week.

if by this time next friday various problems have still not been resolved, emails remaining to go unanswered, etc., then please do continue to post. if you still have any problems or legitimate complaints that have yet to be brought to peter's or jennifer's attention, then please contact them immediately and give them a week to figure things out and respond. if a week goes by and you've still yet to make contact then please contact me at

Plan.B.Modular@gmail.com.

I and peter will ignore this post for the next week being how further posts before next friday will only be unnecessary and distracting.

I thank you all for helping to bring about this constructive criticism and sincerely hope everything works out for everyone. thank you. and godspeed.

[Johnisfaster]

good luck pleaseohplease. not in ending the thread but in getting back on track I mean.

[phaedra]

It is really impertinent!
I for my part asked a simple question which could be answered in a part of a minute.
Of course in the condition that someone wants to answer. But it looked like there isn't any interest in satisfying the customers. For remember: I paid for a M32 and I sent M10, M24 and M28 to do some things (repair, modifying, flashing) in the mid of February and I only want to know when I will be able to use my own gear again or in a new state. For weeks I didn't get any definite answer and now comes Joey (PleaseOhPlease) and says, Plan B will shut its communication for a further week. What is the other state than before?
I only want to know something about my own equipment which is at Plan B at the moment, damned!
Answer here, on PM and my personal eMail address you have also. I'm not a rich man and is isn't good for me to know that there are 1000 USD worth somewhere in Los Angeles and I couldn't get it back.
I was confident and patient, but now a point of no return has been reached.

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

[phaedra]

Muff, I apologize to use your great forum for this dispute, but it seems that this platform is the only one I could react on Plan B's behaviour.
I promise I will use it in a constructive manner in the future!

[Muff Wiggler]

[Muff Wiggler]

[xpander]

[LP]

indexofmetals and pheadra: When you post here saying I'm not getting in touch with you offlist, I have no idea who you area nd have no way of tracking you there because your Muff Wigg screename does not appear in the letters I receive. Please, before you get angry here, give me at least some indication when you write that it's you because we get a lot of letters in a day and believe it or not, most of them with operational questions which I'm forwarding to PG.

Muff - ty for the i week rest. I for one could use it! Your blog has become my life for the past week:

http://www.ear-group.net/jennatmuff.jpg

[indexofmetals]

[Norman_Phay]

hey little leeper, I emailed you on the 29th Mar, name/email addy "Norman Fay" (vietgrove(at)gmail(dot)com) can you let me know if you actually received it plz?

(also, the aspie-ish part of me points out, this ^ is a message board, "plan b analog blog" is a mailing list, this: http://vitaphone.blogspot.com/ ...is a blog, yeah I know, I'm picky)

[phaedra]

[GCF]

[Suburban Bather]

I only have the M13(purchased form Noisebug), and I love it! Yes, the bottom channel does not close as fast as the top channel, but I like having two different LPG's in one module. I can understand why some people would complain, but I think that its quite a handy feature, ducks for cover.

There are a few more Plan B modules I'm interested in, but I'm definitely going to wait another two or three months before I decide to buy. I really do hope that this situation will be a thing of the past. Plan B's modules are too cool to be officially unavailable in the near future.

[LP]

we dont know who u r because there is no tie in your emails to your muffwiggler screen name. That is all you need to do for us because we believe we have replied to everyone. Again please realize that we get 40 emails every day on average, most dealing with operational questions. Secondly, I am new to this so give me some time. And, lastly, I am confused because the way I am reading this leads me to believe that muffwigglers agreement was to lay this thread down for a week. He was not suggesting we shut off communication with our customers for a week which I believe you are reading into this. We wanna help you so please identify yourself but do it to us, not to the forum because we cant respond to that.

[phaedra]

Dear Jennifer,
what have I to write that you understand who I am and what I want from Plan B.
READ YOUR PM!
My name is Axel Jungkunst, I paid for a Model 32 on 7th of february this year which should be shipped the day after. I've sent three modules to you (M10, M24 and M28) in the mid of february. You wrote me about three weeks ago, that some parts have to be built in, on which you're waiting for and you wanted to ship all the modules together two weeks ago because of only-one-shipment. Is it necessary that I have to copy all the emails here into the forum (these emails have been the last ones I got in this affair)? At the moment I say no, but when you tell me once more the story of a further week in silence I will do it. And how many emails you get per day is a black box for me, you have customers and you have to satisfy them, maybe with a fast answer on a simple question.
And once more and the fifth time: I only want to know when I will get my modules back, which should be here in Germany at time, when all the promises would have come true.
What is so difficult to answer on this simple question?
best regards
Axel

[phaedra]

A further headword for my identification: Interview!

[Muff Wiggler]

for the record, I did not suggest this thread be shut down or locked for the week

believe me i would love to lock it

i suggested that people calm down with the negative posts, accusations, anger, etc and let Plan B have the requested one week of breathing space to get things running on track.

when I say 'believe me i would love to lock it', please trust me that it is true.

but it is obvious and apparent to me that this thread is the ONLY way some people have of communicating with the company. which means if i did lock it, those customers would open another thread for their communication.

this is what happens when no-one has any method of communication available to them. So, this thread has become the pressure valve, the place where, for lack of anywhere else, the communication ends up coming out.

people have reason to believe that Plan B is reading this thread. They also have reason to belive that Plan B is NOT reading their emails. Thus this becomes the default communication venue, because the company has shut down all others. Like it or not, that's just what happens when you try to muzzle people, paying customers in particular.

i have no pony in this race - i very badly want to see Plan B fix their problems and the customers get happy

but I am not a Plan B customer. I had two modules at one time, but I've sold them.

However, I cannot suggest that I am an innocent bystander either. I understand and sympathize with the users who are claiming that they receive no communication from Plan B - this was my experience as well, of a handful of email I have sent to the company, not one was ever responded to. So perhaps it is a bias, but I have no problem believing the multiple users who are claiming that no-one from Plan B is replying to them, promises made or not. They sure never, ever got back to me.

So, please understand, I cannot shut this thread down. I don't want more ones to start.

Again I ask everyone to press the pause button, give Plan B the benefit of doubt, and reserve any new judgement for 1 week as requested. Those of you who are not receiving any communication from the company when they post that they have replied to all emails, yes, use this thread to make yourself known, because (sad as it is) it really seems you have no other venue.

let's leave abuse, speculation, historical concerns, etc out for one week.

thank-you.

[LP]

Good morning Jennifer,
what I really mean is a date when I can get my modules, because they couldn't be send as an attachment like the interview and the photos. :-)
Those things are here very fast, but a package should due much longer because of the long way and the famous customers, famous because
of very slow motion :-(
Would it be possible to ship my gear in the next days?
You must know I do the reviews in my private time in the evening or during the weekends and so it will be heavy to hold the plan with all the things I have to do.
Please asak Peter about the state of my modules.
Many thanks for your efforts again and best regards
Axel
P.S.:Maybe a liitle change on the website or a few words of Peter on his Yahoo group would calm some people.
There are rumours like "Plan B is dead" on indifferent forums.

jennifer leepson schrieb:
Hello axel. I know I promised you the interview and pics of peter. He is extremely busy with his m32's. He has started working on it and hopefully he will be done by the end of the week. As for the pics, I got a few but I don't feel these represent peter well. I will catch him on a good day but I will have something by the time the interview goes out.

Axel Jungkunst <phaedra> wrote:



As everyone can see, I have responded to axels emails and recieved a reply back from him.

Axel, like I mentioned before, we are working on it so please give us a chance to resolve your issue.

[LP]

dont bother as I have never used yahoo pm with thelittleleeper email addy. Ty

[GCF]

[phaedra]

[Norman_Phay]

[Norman_Phay]

On top of that, I see some message on the yahoo list, paraphrasable as "we are shipping a bunch of Model 32s to BCM and customers who placed orders" Well, that's great, I guess, but when were those orders placed? January 2009 or thereabouts I think? I placed my order in September 2007. Can you see why this pisses me off? I mean, Jesus, what is so difficult to understand about first come, first served? It's just basic common sense and good practice for running a business!

[tragedybysyntax]

Jesus..... this is insane. I can't believe they wont even get back to you guys about modules that he's holding onto for you. I think it's worth a trip for you guys to collectively go out to L.A. and track him down face to face.

[Illiac]

[LDT]

[jonkull]

[Illiac]

[xpander]

[Kent]

Hey kids,

Let's keep things well on the other side of things that could be considered 'legal' in the great state of California. Whaddaya think?

[GCF]

It would be also nice to stick with the "people who need contact from Plan B get help" thread. People who post more Plan B bashing keep it quiet for a week.

(I guess that means if you think Plan B won't get this all worked out in the week of silence time, then start saving up some funny pictures.)

Jennifer/Peter-please email me about my M38 ADSR.

-GCF (Gregory Frazier)

[Muff Wiggler]

[REwire]

I saw a couple of you mentioning M38's (ELF ADSR) in for repair. I gave Peter back my two M38's for revision because I did not like the decay response. He said that he was going to revise the line because a few also had asked for that. I don't know if any of you who have 38's in for repair or revision, but that one might be held up due to him working out that revision. He was testing linear vs exponential pots. If it's a repair, you might want to get straight if you liked it before you sent it back in case they get revised upon repair.

D

[MrDys]

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

LP, is it possible that you have a spam filter or something that is preventing emails from going through? Just a thought

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

ALRIGHT WHO DID IT!?!?! WHO STOLE MY AVATAR!!! WHY IS IT MISSING!?!?!?!

[Muff Wiggler]

[swordsect]

muff why not lock it for a week?

[haven]

[Muff Wiggler]

[phaedra]

Today I got the confirmation that Plan B has my money for the Model 32 (which I paid on 7th of february). Ok, I supposed it all the time, but a confirmation or a date, when my four modules will be sent leaves open.
Again no answer on my question!

[swordsect]

m'kay

[phaedra]

[Muff Wiggler]

[phaedra]

Thanks, Muff!
If it wouldn't be so sad.....

[perky]

South Park

[GCF]

[richard]

here we go...

[phaedra]

Has anyone got a module as threatened?

[droolmaster0]

[phaedra]

This was my last contact on 6th of april including my immediate answer ( I must not mention that I didn't get any hint I need to become calm):

Dear Jennifer,
in short and clear words, because I suppose we think different about the handling of serious deals.
What I'm expecting is the following
-------------------
Dear Axel,
we've sent your bought Model 32, the modified Model 10, the flashed Model 28 and the repaired Model 24 to you.
The tracking code is: nnnnnnnnnnn (and please a real one!!!)
After you've reveived your equipment please pay the bill shipped with your modules via PayPal.
-------------------
And I promise you, you will get your money as far as possible because I'm only doing serious deals like with Doepfer, Noisebug and others.
For me this deal and the work with the modules I've sent wasn't or better isn't a pleasure, believe me.
I'd always a feeling of Bermuda Triangle and this only will go away after having received my own gear.

best regards
Axel

Jennifer Leepson schrieb:
> Your money has been refunded from paypal. Thank-you so much for your patience and understanding. You have been a pleasure to work with.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> jennifer
>
> --- On Mon, 3/30/09, Axel Jungkunst <phaedra> wrote:
>
>
> From: Axel Jungkunst <phaedra>
> Subject: Third time!
> To: "Jennifer Leepson" <thelittleleeper>
> Date: Monday, March 30, 2009, 2:27 AM
>
> Hi Jennifer,
> please answer the question, when my modules will be shipped.
> More and more I have the impression that this kind of questions are not
> so easy to answer and the thought on a fake isn't so far away.
> You have four modules of mine and they are 1.000 USD worth and I only
> want to know when I will be able to get them back. I asked you twice and I got
> no answer. Meanwhile Number #21 of the M32s must have been reached and any
> missing parts for my units hopefully being repaired must also built in.
> Where is the problem to ship my equipment to Germany?
> Money? Time? Illness? Prison? What is going on here?
> Peter, be honest with your customers!
> Regards
> Axel
>

[jonkull]

[GCF]

[indexofmetals]

[sascha.victoria]

Its been a week since I heard from Plan B last when they said the modules were shipping. The amazing thing is that I'm in LA! I've had things ship from SF standard and get to me next day. More broken promises...

[fluxmonkey]

[wetterberg]

oh shit, this is bound to be interesting!
OM NOM NOM!

[richard]

okay, I've waited long enough.

After 12 years of trusting synthy type people it looks like i finally got scammed on the internet. By Peter Grenader.

I "bought" this rather lovely one-off item via Paypal from Peter's personal collection at what seemed a pretty good price.



But I’ve heard nothing from Peter since he told me he’d send it "tomorrow" almost 10 weeks ago, despite repeated emails. Then on March 25th Jennifer asked me to drop my paypal claim against them promising a next day dispatch. Not really believing her I said that I'd drop the case immediately i got a tracking number. Since then Paypal told me I won my case but that they couldn’t refund my money – great, I’m a winner! But no tracking number and no module.

And no emails. Silence from Jennifer and Peter for the last two weeks. Silence - no reply to 4 or 5 emails.

Since then i've waited patiently and, thinking they couldn't be complete fuckheads, I even appealed for reason and calm here, but now i feel like a twat for asking for a breathing space for them. The fact that they are apparently still trading and selling modules through at least one 3rd party vendor actually makes it worse. It’s a personal insult to the customers who have trusted them and dealt with them direct. I think that the amount that we don’t matter to them, that they don't care what we say here, considering how small this little modular world is, is downright astonishing. As is the uppity and, sorry to have to say it, but ultimately downright dishonest attitude both of them have shown in this thread.

Jennifer its a lie to say you will contact people and then not do it. A child can tell you that. And to do it so publically is just pretty wierd, frankly.
It takes 20 seconds to send an email right? Even if you have 200 of them it still doesn’t take so long with cut and paste – right? And you’d think to create a bit of public calm and confidence amidst this self-created shitstorm that two people could find an hour between them to do it, right? When you don't do that the message you send to your customers is completly clear:

its, "fuck you, I don't give a shit. I already have your money so just fuck off and stop bothering us."

And, Peter, not a single word of apology or explanation, decency or remorse. Nothing. Not a word in 10 weeks? You really don't give a fuck and I am very disappointed about that. It looks like you've completely fucked up your business and I'm disappointed about that too. I LOVED what you were trying to do. I really like the plan B modules I have and spent several hundred bucks on. And now I really wish I hadn't sent you more of my (pretty fucking scarce, if you must know) cash. I now don@t believe i will ever see my money back or my module.

And what rankles even more is that I've been nothing but respectful, reasonable, patient and polite to you the whole time. And his is what I get in return, Thanks a bundle for making the world just that tiny little bit worse.



Richard

[Muff Wiggler]

[apfEID]

such a frustrating thread... that looks like a beautiful module!

[bar|none]

I was actually lucky enough to get a refund last Sunday for a Plan B direct order that did have a PayPal claim against it. I did get emails from Jennifer and she did eventually resolve it. I consider myself lucky.

At some point I would expect PayPal would shut them down with too many claims but I have no idea. I'm sure that they are in full damage control mode. You can make your own conclusions. I'm not interested in speculating. I do feel that if anyone is gonna save this ship it's her and not Peter who obviously was the one who ran the ship up on the rocks.

I'm not condoning any behavior of this company which I think is inexcusable, But just reporting back.

[brandon daniel]

[LP]

Boyz...

One let me remind you that copying parts of private letters is not only rude, it's a violation of copyright laws and I ask that you show some respect for everyone's alienable rights.

Secondly, the link below is a snapshot of my outbasket. You can detemrine whether or not I am responding to letters. Again, we get al lot in a day and I can get done what I can get done in that day.

http://www.ear-group.net/outbasket.jpg

If you're questioning the quantity of units we have manufactured I can offer you little help. We are not obligated to give you the names of the persons who have made reservations or units we have shipped, but you act as if you are our only customers. You are not. But I will tell you that five M32's went to BCM last Friday and are being sent to people with open reservations. Some have received a refund and of course their orders ae not being processed.

Lastly, I took this job on to help get Peter organized and I am. I did not take this job to spend the day defending the company to the likes of some of the individuals on this list who seem to feel that it's acceptable to speak to us like we're cattle. If my eforts to sort out your questions are unacceptable, then I suggest you take your next purchase elsewhere. I am doing the best that I can and I thank those who are showing some appreciation for that. love j

[GCF]

[Plan B]

regarding this:

And, Peter, not a single word of apology or explanation, decency or remorse. Nothing. Not a word in 10 weeks? You really don't give a fuck and I am very disappointed about that. It looks like you've completely fucked up your business and I'm disappointed about that too. I LOVED what you were trying to do. I really like the plan B modules I have and spent several hundred bucks on. And now I really wish I hadn't sent you more of my (pretty fucking scarce, if you must know) cash. I now don@t believe i will ever see my money back or my module.

-------

Here we go again. This allegation is completely untrue and frankly it angers me that you feel so free to misinterpret my actions, that you are asking for detailed information of the status on my business to be posted on this list, yet you feel on your end no need for accuracy. Part fot e drama I assume. Well, ou need to look at this thread a little closer, as I've covered all of the topics you are accusing me I've ignored. There are a number of entries by me on this topic, although most of the customer issues are being handled by Jennifer and she's been all over the place.

Gentleman, I do feel bad for some of these mishaps and I am responding by showing results. We've shipped 13 M32 in the last week and have another ten going over to BCM who will be handling all of the unpaid reservations. Most of the guys who had paid who have not received their product have received their money back. As Jennifer pointed out, although it seems you all think all of the Plan B customers are members of this list and contributing to this thread, this is not the case.

But getting back to the initial accusation I am showing here on this list but doing so does not mean I have to continually bow my head for more of your whippings and I won't because frankly, I am more than certain that they will continue no matter what my results are. If I were to address all of your rants here I would get nothing done in a day and I'd be answering for that as well.


to jonkull:

regarding your comment someone's been busy while Plan B's been away: The rumor that the company had shut down started here. That doesn't make it true. I was away for a week and a half and for two weeks after that I had to spend a bit of time driving around looking for a house. But during that time the company has been staffed and delivering. We've shipped over 160 units now to BCM, although I'm sure most of you will doubt my word on that. We owe them another ten M32's tomorrow and I will take a picture of their stock if it will clam your doubts. We have shipped to BCM each Friday since we started doing business with them again in late Feb.

This thread is over three weeks old. Topics have been covered, people have been brought in to handle customer issues on almost a full time basis, you're getting responses but it seems you still are not pleased. All I can tell you is we will try to invent more hours in a day because as it is we're putting more in than I wish to recognize.

[ach_gott]

[droolmaster0]

So, Peter - where is my Milton? Do you feel responsible for promises that you have made to multiple people ("I'll ship this tomorrow")? Do you have the slightest bit of understanding about how people might get angry with you because of YOUR treatment of them?

[Muff Wiggler]

[Plan B]

Muff - Written words are protected by copyright. Copying them without permission, a release - paid or given free as WORK FOR HIRE is a violation of those copyrights. The only exceptions to this law are in China or Taiwan where copyrights are not recognized. Further, as the owner of this blog you do not have the right to act as my agent, or wave these copyrights. My sister in law is a copyright attorney for chrissake and you are full of crap.

I am sorry you are so pissed of and I suggest a Mydol. But your anger does not give you the right to or to encourage your members to slander or contribute to the senseless drama your blog has become, to a topic of much humor among the manufacturers when we speak to one another. And no amount of bold oversized type or heavy sprinkling of the word FUCK makes your case any more appropriate.

We have fucked some things up - how many times do we have to say that before you feel your cause has been fulfilled because frankly my friend, I see your contributions to this highly biased and there is nothing, absolutely nothing I feel you will accept as proof that any of the topics brought up here have been dealt with, nor is there any obligation for Plan B or any other manufacturer to feel your blog is as important to the pulse of modular synthesis manufacturing as you care to think it is.

We are handling situations as they arose, if the people we are dealing with are not on this list, that is not our issue, but your blog will not intimidate us to address our customers out of turn. Again, we;ve put things in place to stop these types of things form happeninga nd we're dealing with them as we can, if that;s not good enough for you sir Muff, I am sorry.

[jonkull]

[Plan B]

BCM is not handling paid reservations - we are. It's not their business. We are shipping prepays as well. We are not doing the BCM work first There were many direct orders and they are being handled in turn.

[Muff Wiggler]

[Plan B]

Muff - get OVER yourself, dude. You sound like Bush "I AM THE DECIDER"!!!!! What-everrrrrrrrr.... this idiot is going back to work.

[Muff Wiggler]

[brandon daniel]

[Plan B]

Screaming isn't make your point any more valid. You want me to shut the fuck up, ban me for god sake's - after all, you are the decider, right? Frankly I'd be more than happy not to deal with this. But in the meantime little man, your swear words aren't changing the facts. Best of luck to you.

[shamann]

[Malekko]

[droolmaster0]

The man whose word means NOTHING is just so judgmental of others. Muff is a decent human being. You sir, are not. The only forum that I know of, where the complaints don't outweigh the praise is your own list, where you carefully control what's posted.

[Muff Wiggler]

[D/A A/D]

[aetherpulse]

I have never bought Plan B products and after this shit, I never will.
I have worked in service industries since I was fourteen, I repair very expensive items for a living and I deal with angry/unhappy people on a fairly regular basis. The way you have been treating your customers is shameful. Even if it was only one person, it is wrong.
I hope you find a career that you are better at than this because I can't see how PLan B can continue when it's owner treats it's customers as garbage.

[jonkull]

[ignatius]

[Suburban Bather]

[ignatius]

[phaedra]

[jonkull]

[droolmaster0]

I would estimate that I was told that my sequencer was going to ship either the next day, or in the next few days, about 10 times over the entire course of this fiasco. This was told to me without any uncertainty at all. The last time was after the shit hit the fan here awhile back. He called me and told me that he was shipping it. He never did. If you notice his responses and evasions, he never addresses one central issue - why does he make repeated promises to people that he simply doesn't keep, why does he pretend that these promises aren't important, and why does he attack people who simply get fed up about repeated broken promises.

[tragedybysyntax]

Wow.... i havent checked this thread in a week. I can't believe this is actually going on. I've really liked the design ideas of what peter has been trying to do.. I even have the headphone preamp and the model 28 tap clock. Tap clock has been acting goofy and honestly... fuck sending it back. I think i'd rather deal with it's quirks than never to see a module back again or for it to get shipped back with worse re-building errors. I'm pissed this is going on because I wanted to build up an entire 6U of just plan b stuff... not now. So many other companies out now with WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY better service and quality for the same money. next.

[ex_dead_teenager]

I'm also really upset to read all this happening. I'll soon be the owner of a Plan B Analogue Shift Register (thank God I didn't buy it direct?). Anyway I'm surprised and dismayed by all of this because I really believed in what I thought Plan B was about and I was really excited about their products I also had a full system based around Plan B stuff but after reading this, and especially Peter's attacks on Muff and others here I'm leaving their user group tonight.

And I'm doing it with a heavy heart.

[ach_gott]

So, here's how you, PG, can make this go away. As a service to you just because I'm a swell, swell guy, here's a list of people who complained over the last 26 pages of this thread who have not said that their issues were resolved, some of which you may have taken care of.

droolmaster0: sequencer
jonkull: model 32
GCF: ?
richard: motivity input port
sascha.victoria: ?
indexofmetals: ?
Norman F: modules (email sent per screenshot)
phaedra: M32 and no M10,M24,M28 (money refunded?)
Prometheus Burning: model 9... fixed and sent?
spbaker: ?
koura: model 32
fridgebuzzz: parts

Here is your legal responsibility to clients:
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus02.shtm

So 12 people, there's your checklist. At two per day (and for some of these, it's a trip to the post office, right?) you'll eliminate any need for the thread to continue in a week's time.

[phaedra]

[smitty]

[phaedra]

[ignatius]

[spbaker]

droolmaster0: sequencer
jonkull: model 32
GCF: ?
richard: motivity input port
sascha.victoria: ?
indexofmetals: ?
Norman F: modules (email sent per screenshot)
phaedra: M32 and no M10,M24,M28 (money refunded?)
Prometheus Burning: model 9... fixed and sent?
spbaker: Model 40 & Model 10 Being held for ransom against an apology?!
koura: model 32
fridgebuzzz: parts

[GCF]

droolmaster0: sequencer
jonkull: model 32
GCF: any information regarding M38
richard: motivity input port
sascha.victoria: ?
indexofmetals: ?
Norman F: modules (email sent per screenshot)
phaedra: M32 and no M10,M24,M28 (money refunded?)
Prometheus Burning: model 9... fixed and sent?
spbaker: Model 40 & Model 10 Being held for ransom against an apology?!
koura: model 32
fridgebuzzz: parts

[Jari Jokinen]

I got no response to mails sent to <thelittleleeper> on 29 March and 6 April. Plan B owes me refund for M10 since March 2008.

jari.jokinen@...


droolmaster0: sequencer
jonkull: model 32
GCF: any information regarding M38
richard: motivity input port
sascha.victoria: ?
indexofmetals: ?
Norman F: modules (email sent per screenshot)
phaedra: M32 and no M10,M24,M28 (money refunded?)
Prometheus Burning: model 9... fixed and sent?
spbaker: Model 40 & Model 10 Being held for ransom against an apology?!
koura: model 32
fridgebuzzz: parts
Jari Jokinen: Refund for M10

[ach_gott]

Duly updated:

droolmaster0: sequencer
jonkull: model 32
GCF: any information regarding M38
richard: motivity input port
sascha.victoria: ?
indexofmetals: ?
Norman F: modules (email sent per screenshot)
phaedra: M32 and no M10,M24,M28 (money refunded?)
Prometheus Burning: model 9... fixed and sent?
spbaker: Model 40 & Model 10 Being held for ransom against an apology?!
koura: model 32
fridgebuzzz: parts
jari jokinen: refund for model 10

Also, if what spbaker reports is true, that's simply terrible.

[phaedra]

droolmaster0: sequencer
jonkull: model 32
GCF: any information regarding M38
richard: motivity input port
sascha.victoria: ?
indexofmetals: ?
Norman F: modules (email sent per screenshot)
phaedra: M32 (paid) and M10,M24,M28 (modify/repair/software flash, but waiting on any answer about the state)
Prometheus Burning: model 9... fixed and sent?
spbaker: Model 40 & Model 10 Being held for ransom against an apology?!
koura: model 32
fridgebuzzz: parts
jari jokinen: refund for model 10

[richard]

I think round about now would be a very good time for a small company selling buchla-inspired eurorack modules with a bit of flair to enter the market

Peter has proved there is a good market and a lot of people very enthusiastic about such products.



Richard

[spbaker]

[Sound]

droolmaster0: sequencer
jonkull: model 32
GCF: any information regarding M38
richard: motivity input port
sascha.victoria: ?
indexofmetals: ?
Norman F: modules (email sent per screenshot)
phaedra: M32 (paid) and M10,M24,M28 (modify/repair/software flash, but waiting on any answer about the state)
Prometheus Burning: model 9... fixed and sent?
spbaker: Model 40 & Model 10 Being held for ransom against an apology?!
koura: model 32
fridgebuzzz: parts
jari jokinen: refund for model 10
........................................

Links:

http://electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22020



Regards

[ach_gott]

[Sound]

[jtclicker]

see post below

[jtclicker]

You've lost my custom Peter. I planned to spend several thousand dollars on modules from you and came here to get info.
You have taken money going back years for modules not delivered - years, and in a continued and systematic manner.
It is illegal to ask for credit card payment on goods you say are ready to ship and then not done so. I'd advise anyone who has done this to contact VISA, they will deal with it. Bespoke companies can take payment for handbuild goods before they are ready, but when they say 'pay now/ready for shipment' and don't it, it is fraud. I know from experience after having had to do this to a company I'd ordered (nonsynth) gear from. They were sued by Visa and had their right to take orders by VISA withdrawn, in some countries this is a criminal act.
I'm appalled at what you are saying here. You've taken money for goods you haven't delivered, and there is a huge list of people here who your company isn't even responding to. If you really are 'laughing with other manufacturers' over this you are laughing at the poor people who have paid you money and waited and waited for years. You are company is engaged in criminal activities every time it takes money and doesn't deliver, or says 'pay now your goods are ready'. This isn't a 'fuck up' It is criminal

[ignatius]

[Sound]

Muff, When are posted big photos, I can not follow the thread, maybe because my screen is an standard 17". The fotos are not reduced.

Also I would like to suggest that we will not enter in offtopic posts, in order to make easy to read this thread to other people. The matter is very serious.

Regards.

[Muff Wiggler]

i agree with Sound

[astroschnautzer]

I think people should do what they normally do when they get scammed; Go to the police, and they take care of it, it isn`t like you guys would`t have given plan b a chance to sort things out.

[phaedra]

[mono-poly]

Stick to Plan-A.
Save your monney and get a Wiard.
This is enoug Buchla inspired.

[richard]

Peter.

You don't seem to have caught on to the fact that something has changed in the last week.

The promise to get back to me and other people in the last week was a public action. It was taken very seriously by many people here. And you and Jennifer have very, very publically failed to keep this promise. The very least you could do was to send an email registering the seriousness of the situation and admitting some liability. I think your failure to do even that absolute minimum is the last straw for many here. My post was explcitly a direct result of this failure. I didn't want to post this information here and waited as long as i could before doing so

but you responded:

"Here we go again. This allegation is completely untrue and frankly it angers me that you feel so free to misinterpret my actions, that you are asking for detailed information of the status on my business to be posted on this list, yet you feel on your end no need for accuracy. P"


That is a bit of nutty response. My mails was very accurate and I did not ask for any details about your business - any more than i asked about your private life or whatever else it is that has brought about this situation. Its you and nobody else whose spilling the guts of your business in public - I think we can ALL see more of it than we want to in this moment. And to say "here we go again" has no meaning. This is the first time i presented this little tale in public and the ONLY reason I did is because you were silent for 10 weeks and the only communication I got from Jennifer was 2 weeks ago asking me to drop the paypal case.

I would like to repeat that I have always been courteous and polite and respectful to you up until this point. But it has lead to nothing but disappoinment and now anger and frustration. I have no desire to get in slanging match with you. I would much rather that you fulfil our contract and that I could be spending my time composing music with the wonderful looking module that I paid for two and half months ago, instead of wasting my time communicating with you on a public forum because you (you, not me) refuse to communicate with me in any other way.

Who needs allegations? You are writing this whole script yourself now sir.

Please send my module as promised.

Richard

[whyterabbyt]

[wetterberg]

[2012]

PG should refund all custommers that din't get there modules,and then start from zero accepting payments as long as items are in stock.

But he will not do that,am sure he uses ur money to live from and made modules in second stage!

Second stage because he have to pay the guys that soldering,he cannot invest in manufacturing his modules in big batches.

Its more an per order basis that he works,thats why it takes long before u get the modules,the problem is that he do not mention this way of selling very open because if he do that it will result in less orders = less money flow.

[chimologic]

I think there is enough of a large groups of people with the same kind of damage, enough broken promises and enough $ amount to do one of these against plan b/its owners:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_action

Or at least everyone get active with posting about the situation on every possible forum/outlet tell everyone you know with any interest on modulars.

organize and fight back.

[KyleEasterly]

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/

The FTC thing is kinda a bitch to use, it seems geared towards privacy/identity theft, but if you use 'Other' a bunch, then use the comment boxes, you might get some use out of it.

http://www.la.bbb.org/businessreport.aspx?companyid=100065810



I've never had a direct problem with Plan B, but I tried to order a tap clock from Moog Audio back in July of 2008. It was September before Moog Audio told me in no uncertain terms they were done dealing w/ Plan B because of nonresponse to e-mails and lies about shipping dates - the money I put down for the tap clock was refunded quickly by Moog Audio, and they gave me a discount on the other module I had ordered.

It sounds like PG has no money, which explains the shipping of modules to BCM before you guys get your stuff. Fixing that long list of modules that he's sitting on doesn't pay the bills.

My dream fantasy scenario, because I love the Plan B modules, but not Plan B (after all this bullshit has come out) :

1) All of the higher-profile Adam Henry's get together and file a class-action suit against Plan B. Adam Henry v. Peter Grenader!
2) Hopefully PG has Plan B/EAR/whatever setup as a sole proprietorship, or some sort of partnership. Anything that ties his personal assets to the liabilities of the business entity.
3) Adam Henry wins the class-action, PG has no money with which to compensate, so the class somehow wins the rights to the designs (intellectual property is property too!) of the modules, and has them hammered out for cheap by robots in China.

Yeah, it's a bit far-fetched, but one can wish, right?

Posting this probably makes me an Adam Henry myself, but fuck it, at least I'm in good company!

[Soy Sos]

I've pretty much stayed out of this and just kept up amused from a distance
as I only own 1 Plan B module and hadn't thought of buying anymore.
Unless I missed it, has anyone mentioned this?!?!

ONE THOUSAND NINE HUNDRED FOURTEEN
UNREAD E-MAILS!!
Wondering why nobody's gotten back to you?
This could be a clue................

[futuresoundsystems]

Soy - Whoooaaaa WTF?

[VanEck]

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

[tragedybysyntax]

This is just sad fellas. Oh well tho honestly.... alot of other great things happening in the modular world. He has to be hiding under a rock as it is... it has to suck to realize you are fucking hundreds of people over out of their money and satisfaction. Not to mention their trust. Let's just walk away and spend our money else where from now on. Modcan anybody?

[chinard]

this really displeases me.

Fortunately i only have ONE module in the plan B limbo system for repair.
I wont say what it is for now so that peter doesnt read this and start holding my module for ransom like he has with other people here.
Fortunately it is a module that i havent really started to become dependent on, so i can be very patient in regards to getting it back.

I have had a few dealings with peter via email regarding this issue with my module and i have to say... He was slow responding to emails but he DID eventually respond. For the most part i found him pleasant and helpful... Once in a while there was a bit of attitude in the tone of the email but you know what? I have honestly had more attitude and less cooperation from tom from A-Solutions than i had from peter.
None of this has given me any reason to stop using plan b as a module source... I would just never buy direct from them.
All of my modules have been purcased from stock from a dealer. And that applies to other manufacturers as well. I will not buy vaporware.

Peter, you have been given an opportunity on a silver platter to clear your reputation and make peace with THE MOST ACTIVE modular community on the internet.
People come here EVERY DAY asking for module recommendations.
With the lashing out you and Jennifer have done in this thread, you have succeeded in scaring off any new business that could be gained through this kind of referral.

These are YOUR CUSTOMERS and they are angry with the way they have been treated! You have a responsibility to address these grievances and make things right.
Berating your customers is a very bad idea. Especially in these economic times and ESPECIALLY with so many other manufacturers that are making amazing modules WITHOUT all the drama!

[D/A A/D]

I really love my M15, M36, and M10...

But my god I want to liquidate them now, but if I do and I miss them... I would never be able to get em again more than likely.

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

memories!

[jtclicker]

so what is th elongest 'delay in delivery'? 3 years? And isn't there a modified serge panel belonging to someone 'delayed'

[VanEck]

[Gordon Cole]

[KyleEasterly]

Someone (not with Plan B) could probably make a killing doing repairs on Plan B modules... If either of my Model 13 Gates or Model 28 tapclock ever went out on me, I'd gladly pay out the ass for repair before sending it to Plan B.

Anyone used the FTC or BBB links I posted earlier yet?

[kepner_]

[ignatius]

[jonkull]

[chinard]

[astroschnautzer]

mine doesn`t bleed although it did have 5 different faults when bought.

[Montag]

[noisesource]

i hate to be the one to do this to you guys suffering and waiting on your product or money back...

i just got home from Big City Music, Vector Plotter in hand. i reserved one but did not pay for it out right. but i called up BCM and got what i had reserved, albeit later than promised.

it feels good and everything works as stated. i made sure to test it @ BCM before even thinking of leaving with it and all was well, with this unit.

this is the only post i will add to this thread. I really feel for you guy's who've gone through what i can only image is very frustrating one way or the other.

[Soy Sos]

That's cool. I'm sure it will be awesome.
I've got 2 Choices Joystick kits shipping out soon from
Flight of Harmony. I totally trust that guy and would
much rather he get my hard earned bread.

[jonkull]

[Malekko]

Thats simple, Peter needs money, and he already spent yours.

[jonkull]

Sunshine, lollipops and rainbows.

Edit: Sorry...normally don't like to censor myself but ranting two messages in a row is unbecoming...but this is more than a little frustrating now.

[jonkull]

Sorry...been the liquid courage tonight.

[Malekko]

well if it makes you feel any better you have a box from me coming



sorry, no M32 though

[jonkull]

Looking forward to it!

[ignatius]

[jonkull]

If it's who I think it is there's a thread about that person too.

It's a shame because I want some of those modules...

[Muff Wiggler]

Bernie Madoff?


oh wait, never mind.

I have a hard time keeping track of all these Ponzi scheme dudes lately.

[theglyph]

Opps

[ignatius]

[Muff Wiggler]

let's please not use this thread to take shots at yet more companies. I'm glad people know the way things work at Plan B, but let's agree this is an ugly, ugly thread.

There's a discussion about Cyndustries elsewhere, and it seems they are not in as bad shape...... at least they return emails sometimes. I do know a lot of people are waiting for stuff from them but I don't really want that dragged into this thread as well

thanks

[brandon daniel]

Someone sent this to me a couple days ago, during the downtime.

http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/rnr/1119270917.html

While amusing, I think it's really good advice.

At this stage of the game, with many users out both modules and money, and unhappy with the lack of communication, the only way to keep things running and be trustworthy is to only take money when there are modules in-hand, ready to ship. No pre-pay in full, no half-pay, if the module isn't in stock, do not take anyone's money. If you take money, you ship today or tomorrow, end of story. That's how to rehabilitate the company's reputation.

This, unfortunately, means having the money up front to pay for production, but that's a necessary evil if your customers no longer trust you, for whatever reason.

[jonkull]

[krelnarb]

[MrDys]

[Kent]

Rhymes with this guy is why.

[brandon daniel]

Ayyyyyyyyy.

[mono-poly]

[chinard]

[apfEID]

So has anyone talked to Big City Music and asked if they're aware of this crap going on? (And I don't mean that in a bash on BCM way, just in a what's their take on it way.)

[chinard]

[wetterberg]

[jonkull]

I've been thinking about this since I first posted in this thread but...

What's funny about this situation for me is that I never had any bad dealings with Peter. As a matter of fact the few emails we had exchanged in the past were very pleasant. So pleasant that when people posted negative crap about him it didn't sound like they were talking about the same person.

When he announced his move to the Helmes and the start of Plan B Direct I was happy to hear that his business was I don't know...'moving up' for lack of a better phrase. My desire (and I can admit impatience) for a Model 32 aside...I ordered from Plan B direct because of those pleasant emails. I chose to give him the benefit of the doubt and to ignore the negative things I had heard about him. Like others I've been sorely and thoroughly disappointed.

Oh well...live and learn...

[Nick Name]

[GCF]

I just wanted to say LP emailed me, so I have been updated. For anyone else waiting on an M38, it sounds like it may be a while longer before everything is fixed up. I would suggest making sure LP and PG know that your money was not refunded from Noisebug, also, if you sent in a M38 for repair.

-GCF

[droolmaster0]

I have yet to receive an update on my sequencer, which is ostensibly fixed, and requires only shipping.

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

[droolmaster0]

[pleaseohplease]

greetings muff world,

Once again I would like to thank muff for providing this forum which has not only been helpful for plan b, but is one hell of a synth resource in it's own right.

I would also like to apologize for and clarify any issues regarding the email address i provided. At the time peter asked me to go online and help. So i did, i asked for a week in order to let peter and jennifer get things back on track. i provided the gmail email as a worst case scenario possibility in case peter and jennifer where unable to complete all the necessary communications. I figured a week would be long enough.

Fast forward to now, i have an inbox full of folks still looking for stuff. Unfortunately, i'm not in any position to help out with these matters. I'm just a dude working for modules/rent. What i can tell you all for certain is that the m32's are all slowly working their way towards completion, and we are currently building heisenbergs and analog shift registers. That's all I can say for certain. Altough none of this is my fault, please accept my apologies.

Also, while I'm talking...I'm very curious about Van Eck's faulty model 9. I was personally the guy who replaced your jackboard. Really you just had one bad cliff jack, but we decided to replace the whole board. I tested it and it worked fine. Sam tested it and it worked fine. Peter tested it and it worked fine. So all I can say is that it's odd and unfortunate that your fourth channel is still not working.

And master of drool. Out of curiosity do you have any documents to back up your claim about your missing milton? I know you have no obligations to prove yourself here, but something about this doesn't sit right with me. Basically, your stating peter robbed you, but rather then going to the authorities you just keep posting that peter has your sequencer. According to peter, i'm under the impression you already got it back and then you sat on it, or something along those lines...

[droolmaster0]

[brandon daniel]

[droolmaster0]

From Jennifer in her email:

"With that said, you can investigate what ever you want to legally...i'm going to work on getting you your thing in the meantime."

I believe that this is rather an acknowledgement that Peter has my sequencer.

[jonkull]

[droolmaster0]

From Peter himself in the thread on the private forum, not that long ago. I'd say that this is an admission that he still had the Milton as of that thread (forgive me if I only quote a small part of this post - it's still there if anyone really wants to look).

"This is the bad thing on my part, admitted, I've hung this thing on for some time...but the year or so he's talkign includes the first time he got it form his seller, the time he returned it and the time I returned and the tie he's sent it back. "

So, Joey - get your facts right before you pretty much accuse me of trying to work a swindle here.

[sascha.victoria]

I called BCM to see if they had gotten what Peter claimed to have sent them. BCM have indeed received many modules including a handful of M32s.

I realize BCM is not at fault for any of this and I have no issue with them. I just don't understand on any level why BCM would be getting modules to have in stock for sale before people that pre-paid for the same modules. On top of that I've been told at least 6 times that my modules have been "sent". WTF?!

I feel that I have been very patient with Peter over this whole matter but I'm starting to get quite annoyed. As far as I can tell this is a very easy situation to manage but he has done all the wrong things to deal with it.

I don't want to threaten anyone on a forum because that's just lame but I'm definitely nearing the end of my patience for this situation.

[sascha.victoria]

While searching for Joey's original post I found this little gem from Peter.

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

So Peter couldnt handle this forum, so he sent his GF, she appears to be MIA so I guess she couldnt handle it either and now we have PleaseOhPlease trying to save plan B

you guys really... REALLY need to stop making excuses. It wont fix the gaping holes in the boat you're sinking in.

[suitandtieguy]

this is pretty funny.

this thread is, for the most part, none of my business. however i feel the need to make an observation, since it involves someone with whom friends of mine have made thousands of dollars worth of private synthesiser transactions and had nothing but good things to say about them. i would advise the subject of this thread to avoid a trader credibility match with this guy, because you will lose.

at the harmony central forum, droolmaster0 is banned for, basically, being irritating.

at this forum, someone who has allegedly defrauded droolmaster0 has now, indirectly, accused him of making it up.

[droolmaster0]

[VanEck]

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

Since we're tearing apart your horrible mistake of a post, calling droolermaster "master of drool" wreaks of spite to me.

perhaps you should just tap the shoulder of the next employee in line that wants to make excuses. Where is LP? She was doing OK in my book. Maybe she can undo your verbal diarrhea.

[pleaseohplease]

just to clarify, nothing i say represents 'official' plan b statements. i'm simply a curious observer. and i only added those two addendums to my last post because i personally was simply curious. sorry if any offense was taken.

and drool, former master of, i suspect you would have a better time getting your sequencer back if you dealt with the law rather then stating it over and over here. i only say this because i would like you to get it back.

and van eck, we replaced the board because we figured it would be a safe bet and it took all of five minutes.

[droolmaster0]

[ach_gott]

Maybe he's saying "Arrest my boss, please!"

[droolmaster0]

I don't know - I'm honestly baffled at this point. I mean, there is a simple fact of the matter - something like - "yes, you're sequencer is sitting on the shelf right here", or "Peter shoved it up his ass and can't get it out", or "Peter sold it to pay off an old campaign debt". I mean this guy actually works there, and he's spouting so much shit it makes me think that it is indeed Peter.

[parasitk]

[VanEck]

[jonkull]

[droolmaster0]

[jonkull]

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

[droolmaster0]

[Muff Wiggler]

[D/A A/D]

[jonkull]

I'd like to know what happened during the Magic Week of Silence. Were things built and shipped? Were people contacted? Were problems solved and mistakes corrected? Did shit get taken care of?

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

sorry muff. I'll relax.

LP, where are you? Please undo the damage. So far you're the only one that can coherently communicate with us.

[phaedra]

Meanwhile I've sent two further mails, one at LP, one at PG, to ask for my modules.
@PleaseOhPlease, do you see a M10,M24 and M28 for repair/modify/flash at Plan B? Simple question, needs only a simple answer.
Or is there a list with tracking codes and one has gone to Germany?
Have M32 been sent to private customers?
Next simple question!
Please answer on this, maybe you've worked on one or more of this modules in the last time.
It is really fascinating that I'm not able to get such simple answers on my simple questions, in no way!

[sascha.victoria]

[droolmaster0]

[pleaseohplease]

@drool; just to clarify...even though i've probably pissed you off to the point of no return, if what your saying happened to you then i personally would have done something besides calling myself a master of drool and vocalizing over the internet. and no there is no milton sitting around the office.

@van eck; perhaps we should haven taken six or seven minutes instead of five.

@axel, your models are sitting patiently in our office. we continued testing a few today but are still awaiting parts that are vital to the fix.

[REwire]

The Milton was probably in Peter's back room at his appt. along with lots of other broken gear, including my faceless TB-303 (not his fault, I bought another and left it there). Hopefully all that stuff has made it to his house of which PleaseOhPlease would have no knowledge of.

Regarding M32's at BCM, even waving cash in their face they would not let any M32's go to anyone but the reserve list. I took seeing them as evidence all paid ones were delivered, sorry Jon you're still waiting.

[Muff Wiggler]

hey if you ever get the faceless 303 back can I have it?

[Sound]

Wow...

I can not understand what Im reading, after read "oh please pleas" I felt sick. Its clear that PG is trying to minimize with curtains of smoke what is here posted, with these new characters and stories, the new girl friend, the worker...

I think that we can start to call things by its self name.

What is here posted as well in the analogue heaven e-lists, is not only than Peter Grenader is an useless manufacturer, is that Peter Grenader is a swindler.

Yes, Peter Grenader is a swindler.

Not only that, Also he insults all his swindled customers with his Adam Henry Police...

And not Only that... he appears in this forum to laugh of everyone here.

I suggest that nobody buy his products, nor via Big City. To do it means support a swindler.

Regards,

[Sound]

UPDATE

droolmaster0: sequencer
jonkull: model 32
GCF: any information regarding M38
richard: motivity input port
sascha.victoria: ?
indexofmetals: ?
Norman F: modules (email sent per screenshot)
phaedra: M32 (paid) and M10,M24,M28 (modify/repair/software flash, but waiting on any answer about the state)
Prometheus Burning: model 9... fixed and sent?
spbaker: Model 40 & Model 10 Being held for ransom against an apology?!
koura: model 32
fridgebuzzz: parts
jari jokinen: refund for model 10
........................................

Links:

http://electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22020


..........................................

[ex_dead_teenager]

This is so messed up as to be unbelieveable to me.

I am really worried that the shift register I ordered from BCM will arrive busted or something.

I recently had the opportunity to play with a friend's rig he has a half busted Heisenberg and his Model 9 was apparently of really poor build quality with loose parts and shit.

If I had known any of this when I placed my first (and now only) plan B order a couple of weeks ago I would have thought better of myself.

I guess this is how a business dies in a flaming wreck of angry ripped-off customers and allegations of fraud.

I'm left wondering whether Peter is hiding a substance abuse problem or maybe lost his shirt to Wall Street and now he's treading water or something. I figure he's got to have some serious life skills problems going on for this to be as bad as it's become.

ugh

[astroschnautzer]

[suitandtieguy]

[ach_gott]

UPDATE

droolmaster0: sequencer
jonkull: model 32
richard: motivity input port
sascha.victoria: 2 x M32s
indexofmetals: elf adsr & v/c add-on module in for repair
Norman F: modules (email sent per screenshot)
phaedra: M32 (paid) and M10,M24,M28 (modify/repair/software flash, but waiting on any answer about the state)
Prometheus Burning: model 9... fixed and sent?
spbaker: Model 40 & Model 10 Being held for ransom against an apology?!
koura: model 32
fridgebuzzz: parts
jari jokinen: refund for model 10
nick name: ? (repairs)

On Hold:
GCF: Contacted, up to date, long waits on Model 38s.

[droolmaster0]

[jonkull]

[jonkull]

[sascha.victoria]

[droolmaster0]

[Mr White]

Hi there,
I'm also stucked with plan b....
€430 of modules paid six weeks ago with the promise:
all is in stock, will ship next week!
sheetah..

I joined the forum because I found this topic searching for other people in this rush....

I own also:
M25 (only a little bit noisy)
M12 (strange knob response curve but I really love it)
M9 (a little bleed but I can live with that!)
M37 (finger crossed it tracks 1v/oct!!!!!)

...oh I'm another one at pos. 22 in line of prepaid orders!

solidarity

[jtclicker]

you guys should get together and start some legal action, sounds like you are all being lied to, maybe call it 'Group 22 action'!

[mono-poly]

I am 100% after the new topic title!

[phaedra]

[apfEID]

If BCM is Plan B's main source of income these days, BCM could lean on them to sort this crap out; after all, if BCM stops distributing their product, how soon till Plan B can't pay their rent.

[Mr White]

I'm so sad because I thrusted Peter as a very cool person.
...and I'm still thinking he is but the company this time bitten off more than they can chew taking order directly.
having a distibution or a shop with years of experience behind their shoulders (like noisebug) is much better for a lot of things.
customer service, promlems with faults...
...and mostly for us, just for selling only what they have in stock!

[jonkull]

[D/A A/D]

[jonkull]

I was under the impression that they don't investigate until multiple people complain about the same person. Maybe I'm wrong...

[modularplanner]

OT but Mr White your avatar pic is wider than my ass and unlike my ass is pushing the forum posts into an alternate universe.

[D/A A/D]

[jonkull]

It's really sad that it would have to come to that.

[Mr White]

...i was thinking about how much wider is my avatar scrolling right now...
and I saw your post!
very sorry, I resize it

[Mr White]

sad too...

I claimed paypal to get the refund some days ago, I honestly say that I admire project like plan b, for all that they represent.
...but I love to save my money until they get out of the tunnel.

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

I think its time to take legal action here, for those that have been jerked around for months and months atleast.

mail fraud, small claims court. etc etc...

I will never buy another plan B product, and I'm thinking seriously about liquidating my plan B gear. I hope others boycott plan B because this bullshit has gone on far to long.

[2012]

[ex_dead_teenager]

you all sound as though there's certainly grounds for a class action suit. I'm no lawyer but I bet you could do it.

It's really sad to see the potential that Plan B had being squandered by Peter and co... really sad.

[Illiac]

*BOYCOTTED

[Scaff]

boycott

[dougcl]

Guys now that the title of this thread is PlanB=Scum, I imagine it has lost whatever value it had as a means of reaching the folks at PlanB. At this point it's just a rant thread. Pretty clear that Peter has a communication problem (to put it mildly) and some QA issues (although i have several Plan B modules that are stellar and have never had a quality issue). Not sure why there are still folks out there who are pissed off enough to rant here and have not looked into legal action. Perhaps this can become the legal action thread? At least that would be leading somewhere.

[xart]

Do you have any idea how expensive legal action would be?

[ignatius]

[ignatius]

btw - i've come across links to this thread and entirely new threads about same subject on a couple of forums.

[Kent]

It need not cost a lot of money. Have someone that lives in California contact a free/pro-bono legal adviser and then find out if it can be resolved, en masse, or singularly in small claims court.

[dougcl]

[dougcl]

[jonkull]

You're right Doug. This thread is pointless. It's more a place to rant and vent than anything else.

Like I said above I'm going to wait until Friday and then file a mail fraud complaint. I also have a friend that used to work for the district attorney's office before going into corporate law. When she gets back from Costa Rica I'm going to see if she can offer any advice as to whether there is a legal leg to stand on with any of this. I don't really see this getting anywhere but I'm also not a lawyer.

[droolmaster0]

[det3]

Just a quick thing - if you can get the business information for Plan B, it would be most cost-effective to file in small claims court in your local jurisdiction. A quick filing fee and a judgment are all it takes to go to the next step, which is placing a lien on anything his business owns. If he's set up as a sole proprietorship or partnership, then his personal assets are vulnerable too.

It's much cheaper than getting a lawyer and going 5 rounds through the legal system.

There's a quick intro to small claims here.

[D/A A/D]

I really love my m15...

[xart]

If it is listed as a Corp LP or LLC it would be here:

http://kepler.sos.ca.gov/

But I do not see it. . .

[sascha.victoria]

Today I decided to drive over to Plan B and see what the hell is going on and or get my 2 modules that in theory are done. Surprise, surprise, nobody was home. I was able to look in through the window and it looked like there was 2 work stations set up and a bunch of half done modules. Sadly this does nothing for us.

I think on Friday I'm going to start a PayPal claim which probably will be able to do nothing for me because they can only re-claim money that is in the other persons PayPal account. If that doesn't resolve my issue I will be calling my credit card company so they can reverse the charge and hunt down Peter.

In summation, if my issue is not resolved in the next week I will never buy any product that is Peter Grenader / Plan B related and I will be sure that none of my 100+ working musician / composer friends do either.

Thank you. Come again.

[jonkull]

I filed a PayPal calim a while back and dropped it like an idiot when Jennifer contacted me to tell me my M32 would be shipping that week. Now it's too late. You have 45 days from the purchase date. After that PayPal wants nothing to do with it. Once you close one you can't reopen it so in my case I'm screwed.

[thetwlo]

*IF* you used a credit card you can still dispute the charge when Paypal doesn't help. But Paypal, of course, doesn't like that and may suspend your acct. if you do it more than once or something like that.

[Johnisfaster]

I encourage everyone to link this thread on all your favorite forums, the word needs to get out about this so people don't make the mistake of giving plan B their money.

I've linked the ableton forum and will be linking monome.org in a moment.

[chinard]

[Johnisfaster]

[Norman_Phay]

Did HC forums really drop the banhammer on Droolmaster? How unbelievably lame.

[kepner_]

[dougcl]

[ex_dead_teenager]

I'm not a legal expert by any stretch but could filing a class action suit as a group be less costly and present a clearer, m ore unified message than filling as individuals? You would only have to deal with one lawyer and if you can find one who would work pro-bono then you could all get representation together for free, and if not you'd all be able to split up the cost as a group. I'm only putting this out as a suggestion because it would seem to me that if all the people on here who've been defrauded by Plan B were to organize a legal suit together it would make it clear to Peter Grenader and the rest of his company that they've seriously fucked up and now they have to deal with a whole community instead of angry individuals.

As much as I'd be sad to see Plan B disappear as a company I would be even more upset if they continued with the impression that they could get away with this shit.

[droolmaster0]

[jonkull]

Well I for one don't want to see the demise of Plan B. I just want what I paid for.

I still have plans for picking up 2 M15s, an M14 and possibly some others down the road. I'll just buy them used or from BCM. My biggest concern is what happens should any of them need to be repaired or come to me not working. Will I have to wait for months at a time with no communication?

[ignatius]

[Johnisfaster]

[D/A A/D]

[chinard]

[sascha.victoria]

[GeneralBigBag]

People could start emailing Big City Music to voice their concerns, and to suggest that they would rather take their business to AH, NB, or NM if BCM doesn't put pressure on Plan B to shape up (or drop Plan B altogether).

[sascha.victoria]

BCM is not at fault for the current Plan B situation. That being said I still agree with GeneralBigBag about putting pressure on BCM about Plan B. I'll be sending them an email later today about that.

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

I imagine BCM is already pissed off as well.

theres no way they havent been shafted in one form or another.


btw, I really like the idea of disputing charges via paypal and contacting credit card companies as opposed to straight up legal action. Thats really the only thing you can do.

[smitty]

[DougD]

I think this talk about going after or boycotting Big City Music is crossing the line. If - as has been said - BCM does independently check Plan B modules before selling them, then they should be encouraged - going forward, that becomes the reliable way to get these modules. I am in the process of saving up for my own modular and there are several Plan B modules not duplicated by other manufacturers I would like to purchase from BCM when I'm able to - models 10, 14, 15, 25, and 26... plus some ELF LFOs.

I assume that Plan B is investing most of its resources shipping to BCM because it's the only significant source of income coming in and they need to "keep the lights on" - say, 70% of their efforts making modules to sell to BCM to generate ongoing revenue, and 30% solving (or not) customer service-related issues from the past. If you remove the revenue coming in from BCM, then Plan B just shuts down or goes dormant and no one gets anything.

[jonkull]

[amnesia]

all the folks in america when you know peter is performing go and steal his modular :-) and gives us all a module each then we should get some compensation...

ASSUMING that Peter has dropped the ball...remember this is the modular world so maybe he has his mind on his girl?

I hope he gets it together real soon

I know SPBaker and I have been told our stuff was mailied out in Feb then we chesed Peter up and after a reply he said it was going out 2 weeks ago...nothing has shown up :-(

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

who talked about boycotting BCM?

they have NOTHING to do with this and I think everyone here knows that. Its just that people were talking about bringing the issues up with BCM, thats all.

[dougcl]

[dkcg]

mob rules...get the torches and ropes.

75% not working? be real.

95% of my planB modules work just fine. The 5% that doesn't work right is the self cycling on a Model 10 that I may have inadvertently damaged, but it retriggers fine with one patch cable.

Some of you have real gripes. Some may be just joining the mob w/o even owning more than one or two PlanB modules.

Stop the feeding frenzy behavior and get your heads level. You get "ripped off" on a module or two, and you want the death of that company? Get real...

[apfEID]

It would be infinitely more productive to say "hey, BCM, are you guys able to persuade Plan B to take care of these pissed off customers?"

Absolutely no need to escalate beyond that; in fact it would likely be wildly counter-productive.

[amnesia]

i dont think it matters if you own 1 Plan B module or 15, I have about 5 modules, and if a company cant get their business running, then their future purchases stay at only five modules ...BUT as I said maybe Peter is working away...who the hell knows? not his customers

PS that was a joke about stealing his modular, then we become the thieves.

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

[dougcl]

[dkcg]

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

[apfEID]

let's all take a deep breath and count to 10 now...

[Kent]

Gents,

This is turning into a classic feedback cycle. Now we're at each others' throats.

This issue should now be approached from the standpoint of how to get resolution. Investigate the legal options during the course of the next 7 days or so. Start making steps toward getting things in a row to present your case. Investigate a collection agency, etc.

But perhaps we should agree to not turn on each other as, at this moment, it appears that those involved only have each other. Work together and so forth.

[dkcg]

[brandon daniel]

[flippantminister]

so i had bailed on this forum for the last week or so, now i remember why.

peter has 2 of my 3 plan b modules in for repair. they have been there since early january. i have not heard from him since late january, despite the many emails i have sent to him and jennifer.

all the shit surrounding this has gotten me to the point where i almost never even touch the modular anymore. it was a daily cycle of reading this thread, being sad/mad, and not playing. i was about ready to sell the whole thing off and be done.

i know my 2 modules is not a lot for some people, but it represents almost $400 of my money, which i don't have a lot of. in the last week i've adopted a somewhat philosophical outlook on the possible loss of this investment, and tried to just be cool and deal with it. i now think i'm just gonna say fuck it, get on with it. if my stuff shows up one day, cool. if not, i ain't gonna let it bring me down anymore. i got into this hobby last year cause it was something i had had an interest in for 20 years, i felt like i could spare a little cash, and i was having a good time with it. then insatiable gear lust kicked in and it got to the point where it was just about seeing what the next new thing was. then all this happened, and here i am. i can make music and have fun, or keep myself involved in this garbage. i hope i get my modules back, and i hope they work. if not, i'm still in this for the fun. i don't have time or energy for this bullshit anymore.

hey flight, are the new plague bearers ready yet?

[spbaker]

edited a not necessary post - thanks Kent for talking sense in to us

[amnesia]

hey there are plenty more good people in the modular world... I must say I have actually gone off euro modules at the moment which is wrong because The Harvestman, Livewire etc etc etc are all great guys to deal with.

what other forums are mentioning this Plan B business ?

[Kent]

O.K. Fuck-Os (I'm saying that in a brotherly way toward my fellow Wigglers);

Look, Don (a.k.a. "dkcg") is a valuable resource for you guys. He has the ear of Peter to some degree and isn't all that far from him geographically if memory serves. Don't fuck yourselves over with what could have been, and may yet be, a point of contact.

In short, play your cards right and try to get resolution to this matter. Don't drag your Muff-Brothers down in anger and frustration. That kind of negativity can endure for months or years on a forum.
What we do know is that all was never 'Okay' at Plan B. That's a given. We've seen that there is a pattern here the goes back for some time. I feel that the business has been run like a Ponzi/Madoff scheme; just trying to stay one step ahead. Like all such schemes, it is only a matter of time. I don't think that this was a calculated plan. It's just that Plan B didn't have its business side together and things ran out of control.
Again, all purely conjecture on my part.

At this juncture, it is now time to investigate legal, professional, and progressive options. There are free legal resources in your county, city, area, etc. A little progress would make everyone feel better. It's the feeling of helplessness that is breaking everyones' souls.

My suspicions are that Plan B is/was so unorganized that there aren't any records of who owns what, where things are stored, what was sent in for repair and whether money was ever allocated. Anyone that engages with the company would have to have their B.S.-o-meter at hand and would have to be cautious & suspicious of any promises, discussions or anything else that they couldn't see with their own 2 eyes. In short, physically verify everything.
Maybe you guys could get a couple of Wigglers organized to the point wherein they could present their list of grievances directly to Peter. Don would be perfect for this as he is a neutral party & Peter has no beef with him. Armed with a list and B.S.-o-meter, progress could be made.

Hey, but what do I know? It's 5 AM and I need some horizontal time.

[Muff Wiggler]

um.

(and, thank-you Kent)

ok, time for a very distasteful and un-politically correct image.

Please understand that I intend no offense or derogatory opinion of people with challanges I am lucky to not face myself.

I have a very close family member who is mentally handicapped, who I love as much as my own children.

This image includes a word that makes me personally very uncomfortable.

However with that said, this image includes a message for this thread that I can't think of any better way to put.

Here you go:



Seriously guys, stop fighting. I know a lot of people are very angry (and I think very justified in their anger) at the way they are treated by a company they offered their patronage to.....

but don't let Peter's issues turn you all against each other. That just makes this all so much worse and so much uglier. Being angry with each other helps nothing and makes it so much easier to ignore your voices.

thanks for your understanding.

[Malekko]

^
I'm a win-ar!

[mono-poly]

Yeah guys don't start hating on each other like Muff said.
And respects peoples frustation.
I to had some not so nice experiences with plan-b.
Right now i am selling the last modules from plan-b i got.
So i can leave it all behind and make cool stuff without having to post that i used some plan-b stuff and get people into all kind off stuff some members are into/ have been into.

[Soy Sos]

+1 for the voices of reason.
That said, if you are owed money or gear by PB/PG:
Gather your receipts/paperwork/e-mails/notes/etc
And fucking go after what's yours, with gusto!
I know I would never have gone as long as some have
being owed hundreds and even thousands of dollars.
I don't care how interesting his designs are!
No offense, all love, just my thoughts.

[syncretism]

[GeneralBigBag]

[sascha.victoria]

BCM is definitely not in any way at fault for the situation Peter has created around his Direct Buy service. However, as a dealer of Plan B it is in BCMs best interest to have everyone's issues resolved so they can successfully sell and support the Plan B line.

While Peter's practices have been quite shady / untrustworthy you'd think he would want this to be over as much as the rest of us. I really don't want this situation to take up any more of my energy. At this point all I can do is keep badgering Peter to get me my modules.

In summation: Peter, you still owe me 2 M32s.

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

[mono-poly]

I love to see his Adam Henry list to see who's on it.
Maybe he can post a top 10 in this tread.

[Kent]

You damn well know that you are on it, Chef-Boyardee!

[jonkull]

I have sent Plan B one final email this morning. If this one goes unanswered like my last email did I will be filing a complaint with the AG as well as investigating whatever legal action I can take via small claims court. I hope it doesn't have to come to that but at this point I see no other recourse. I encourage others to do the same though that is up to the individual to decide.

Also don't take your frustrations out on your fellow forum members. They are not the ones responsible for your situation.

If Peter is still watching this (and I really doubt he is)...maybe it's time you started backing up your words with actions. You have made several posts regarding your 'fuck-ups'. You've gotten angry that people were still complaining about you after admitting you fucked up. Yet you've done very little beyond saying that you fucked up. There has been no resolution for many of us and that is why we keep on complaining. If you really want people to stop bitching about you and your company and want to be treated with the respect you feel you deserve...then stop disrespecting others. Put your pride aside for a moment and follow through on your obligations and promises and no one will have anything more to complain about and we can all go happily about our lives. It's a very simple thing to do. It may actually make you feel good.

[sascha.victoria]

I just contact my bank about processing a charge back. I suggest anyone else that sent payment for services not rendered to do the same.

Moving forward I will in no way support Plan B and I will advise my 50+ working musician and or composer friends to do the same. There are plenty of other companies making great modules so not dealing with Plan B won't be very difficult.

Fuck you Peter.

On that note, I'm going to install my new Wogglebug and groove away.

[amnesia]

Yes I have done same. Been a HUGE supporter of Plan B since day one, helped people to decide what plan b models to get started VICMOD and I know sold folks on Plan B....

I have just sent an email out to our 20+ members to never deal with Plan B again,,,,,If plan B continues they should change their name to PLAN C (for cunt)

we really need to get the word out to people that Plan B is no good.

I have had peter publicaly abuse me on these forums for "not knowing what I was doing" with a non working module.
I sent back TWICE a module that didnt work both times, yet peter said he personally looked at it. STILL WAITING FOR IT TO BE RETURNED!
Had modules turn up that had obviously NOT BEEN TESTED BEFORE SELLING THEM because they had missing parts, etc and

I WILL NO LONGER DEAL WITH PETER OR PLAN B EVER AGAIN.

I do know many fine modular manufacturers personally and NOT ONE OF THEM HAS A KIND WORD TO SAY ABOUT PETER! that must say something!

[amnesia]

I have put up a warning to future purchasers of PLan B on my blog...please add your comments to back it up...People need to know ....
http://vicmod.blogspot.com/

[sascha.victoria]

[Moog$FooL$]

[amnesia]

IS IT WORKING OUT NOW?

[chromium]

[amnesia]

I think most of us live outside USA

[chromium]

[jonkull]

Los Angeles, CA

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/cac/

[chromium]

[Moog$FooL$]

[amnesia]

we havent got them now so i would rather let everyone know

[droolmaster0]

I can't think of any other reason why Peter won't send my my sequencer unless either it isn't fixed as he has claimed, or he no longer has it. This is different than some of the other cases here - where he hasn't got around to making or fixing the modules - in my case he has told me repeatedly that it's fixed. All that has ostensibly remained to be done is the shipping - and that's been promised over and over and over again for months.

I'm a forgiving person. If he sent me a private email and fessed up, but then gave me a definite plan with a time table to make good, I'd have a hard time sustaining my personal anger towards him. But the absolute requirement for me is that the communication doesn't again disappear, and that he remains civil.

I imagine that there are others here like that. Even if he were to admit that he's totally fucked up, that he's been an ass, but he'd like to try to fix it - and then addressed ALL of the issues raised on this forum, and communicated consistently, civilly, and kept his promises (in other words, don't say you're going to ship tomorrow if you're not), I think that he could get past a lot of this. And of course, don't treat your customers like the enemy - the notion of these "plan b haters" is ridiculous. These are all people who were attracted to plan b stuff - but they have been mistreated and are angry. It doesn't take much in the way of empathy to understand why this has happened.

Am I optimistic? No. Maybe I'm naive to think that this can still be fixed, but there just doesn't seem to be any indication that this is happening. I personally believe that while Jennifer exists, that Peter is posting as her and as Joey. The posting styles, and the strange way of interacting with people ('Muff's forum is great, but y'all suck', 'I'll get back to all of you within x days', 'no wonder why Peter doesn't like these forums', etc, etc) - it's all the same person posting with different usernames.

Peter can't believe that what's happening here is good, and he can't fail to see that it isn't spreading. This just continues to strike me as absolutely crazy.

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

drools, call every day asking for it. Seriously, if it were me I would be doing this.

[droolmaster0]

[mono-poly]

I know a guy named Larry and he was waiting for his milton for over 3 years the last time i spoke with him.
It wouldn't surprise me if he still doesn't got it.

[ignatius]

[amnesia]

I had an email from Peter saying yet again the modules are being sent ( 3rd time) I feel its unfair to have this up if he is going to do it this time.....IF I dont receive the module in a few weeks i will be up again for sure. AND THIS TIME IT WILL STAY UP.

But I cant understand why I have now been told its being sent yet again over the 3 months.???

I like everyone here just wants to get on with this and get playing with my synths.

Peter did say that all the modules that were sent back for repair didnt have return address, but mine did??? seems strange to me./
SO if you did send stuff back for repair try and get in contact with Peter...

He also is aware the world hates him at the moment, again strange that he isnt doing much about trying to correct the issue????

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

[timmah]

[2012]

[Sound]

[Luka]

[e-grad]

[Luka]

[2012]

ex Him!

[hpsounds]

These comments about Cynthia are unfair.



Hédi K.

[Luka]

on the sexuality tip?
sorry if i offended. i was just unsure, everyone refers to cynthia as a girl but youtubes seem to give a different vibe.

anyway i dont mean to sidetrack the thread

[mono-poly]

I lost ur adress.

[amnesia]

ok i have put my blog post back up after many emails from angry customers.

http://vicmod.blogspot.com/

[2012]

[dougcl]

[jonkull]

[bloplop]

The lesson I hope we have all learned from this is that Peter never learns. I hope some legal action will sort him out one way or the other.

Also, last I checked Plan B was unable to receive payments via Paypal, so all those complaints must have done something.

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

I'm curious as to why LP isnt responding anymore, did she give up or is she super busy responding to those 1914 unread messages in her inbox.

[2012]

[brandon daniel]

[2012]

he did create also an ebay accaunt a few weeks ago selling M15's..

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

[Mr White]

[jonkull]

You know I really don't want to engage in any kind of legal action. I just want my fucking Vector Plotter or my money back. It's been 70 days and I've given him 3 chances.

The first when I initially paid when it was ready to ship.

The second 44 days later when Jennifer contacted me to say it would ship that week.

The third when we were asked for a week of silence and then he shipped them to BCM instead of fulfilling his pre-paid direct orders.

What am I supposed to do at this point? How can I trust someone like this? How long will I wait for my M32? How long will I wait for a refund? Will I even ever get either of them? He has my money. I have nothing...not even a shipment commitment I can believe he'll follow through with.

I sent another email last night and I'm giving it a little more time but what else is there to do at this point really beyond going the legal route?

Alright it's long winded but: http://recoilsunshine.blogspot.com/

[Mr White]

I'm with you, just want my modules or my fuckin' 430 euros!!!!

If I could I would have my car heading to Plan B direct ang get my money back by hands.
hey guys, who have the possibility to do that???
just to talk about his money!?
no more chances this time
If only I could....

[2012]

[sascha.victoria]

Uh oh! I hope his PayPal account isn't completely shut down. That might hinder my banks ability to get the money back from him. Damn Ponzi scheme!

[droolmaster0]

[astroschnautzer]

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

Mr goatse could, with ease.

[droolmaster0]

[wetterberg]

[wetterberg]

btw Richard, good to see your post on the Doepfer mailing list - needs to be said.

[Mr White]

[xpander]

some required reading for y'all:

[richard]

an eery silence falls


R

[jonkull]

You mean an eely silence.

[richard]

no, i meant an EAR-ey silence

R

[jonkull]

Well what more is there to say at this point really? I am curious though to know if anyone from this thread has heard/received anything from Plan B yet.

[richard]

well i for one have fucking heard
not one single fucking word

jesus i am poetic today, must be the flu

R

[sascha.victoria]

I haven't heard anything yet. I'm still waiting on paperwork from my bank so I can sign off on my charge back. I'm a little worried they might not be able to do it as Peter's PayPal account has definitely been shut down. If you go on the Plan B site and try to set up an order you'll get the following PayPal error:

"This recipient is currently unable to receive money."

Perhaps in the mean time I'll try to contact Peter again...

[GeneralBigBag]

I wonder if this thread should be temporarily stickied...?

[wetterberg]

I was thinking the same thing; at least let's not let this one drown, sticky it up for newcomers to see.

[richard]

yup, please sticky it, it will save useless bump posts like mine

although, the complete silence and lack of contact from Plan B is also important information in some way

Richard

[felix]

stickied.

I do know of 2 or 3 people through twitter who have received their M32's. *Something* is happening at least.

[jonkull]

[richard]

AG?

Analog General? and dammit i didn't even know there was one

R

[jonkull]

Yes, the Analog General of California.

PayPal wouldn't help me and I have no other option. To be honest I don't think the complaint will go anywhere. They seem to be more interested in companies that exhibit patterns that effect large groups of people. My complaint will most likely get filed away somewhere. It will however make me 'feel better'.

[Soviet Space Child]

Has anyone considered writing to these guys yet?

http://consumerist.com/

Great blog, might put some more pressure on Peter G. to send people their modules and/or money.

[MrDys]

[jonkull]

Don't hold your breath for yours. I think BCM has the only M32s in existence.

I was very surprised to see this the other day:

http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2009/04/16/people-are-unhappy-with-p lan-b-synthesizers/

[Kent]

MrDys,

You are not the only one that this has happened to. I'm sure Roger @ BCM is shaking his head and wondering WTF.

[richard]

45 pages and counting, phew

IMO what BCM should do is obvious

drop plan B like a hot potato

this community is too small for them to behave like its "just business". I don't think they have any direct responsibilty for the current situation but effectively they are functioning as represtitives for a company that is behaving most unethically, and no doubt illegally too

R

[amnesia]

i will respond if when i get my modules back

remember you can add comments here http://vicmod.blogspot.com/

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

wow, looks like word is spreading like fire.

Peter will still most likely not care and do nothing about it.

[BugBrand]

I just got back from working in Spain - two people organised workshop events there for me and both of them were interested in Eurorack modules - one had a small doepfer system and one was looking to get one. Neither is particularly reading/writing on online forums but BOTH had heard about the PlanB shits... So word is definitely spreading.

[Mr White]

paypal:

yesterday I received a mail by paypal to inform me that the claim on the plan b payement has resolved to my favor!

they proudly rescued $0,95 from the seller, but, if I feel he owes me something more they will take measures against him limithing his account!

unfuckinbelievable

[jonkull]

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/

http://ag.ca.gov/contact/complaint_form.php?cmplt=CL

[richard]

strange, Paypal decided in my favour 2 weeks ago and i didn't even get the 95 cents - i could have bought like 2 minijack plugs with that!

i never knew how feeble paypal was, so much for buyer protection.... I'll know better in future anyway, always and only use a credit card for the little one-man operations, because anything can happen.

Funnily enough the last sentence Peter wrote to me (before he became "Jennifer") was about George Bush:

"how in the holy hell could one man do such global damage...in eight years? mind boggling"

funny eh?

Richard

[D/A A/D]

[wetterberg]

MrWHite, make sure to let them know ASAP that he owes you way more, it currently looks like he's milking the paypal and withdrawing money immediately, leaving no room for claims.
get them to limit that fucking account NOW!

[astroschnautzer]

the ear sites paypal is atleast out of use.

[SynthBaron]

This thread means nothing without someone pressing theft/grand theft charges.

[Muff Wiggler]

[jonkull]

I filed complaints with the FTC and Attorney General... It took 5 minutes and I would encourage others to do the same. I haven't received my module, my money, any replies to my emails and I already assume that I have a special place on the Adam Henry list so I figure I had nothing to really lose.

[suitandtieguy]

[Muff Wiggler]

i also encourage everyone who got ripped off to pursue legal action

but without saying that their comments here mean nothing

[Mr White]

[Mr White]

thanks jonkull,

complaint filed.

claimed by my VISA too.

..a couple of days before someone here told me that if I was gone by car to planb to rescue my money I would come back only with hopes and promises by Peter...

definitely I dont think so.

I'm really a good and quiet person, indeed, but I'm sure that if I spoke to Peter personally, I came back with something for sure (maybe its TV). :gun:


so for all of you that can do it, take your car and head to your money.

[Nick Name]

Last night I had an unpleasant 'DOH' realisation that I will never ever see my podules again !
So I contacted Visa this morning and have just faxed them all the relevant info....

FWIW - I was outside their 120 day coverage period regarding the date I paid for the modules but inside it
with the date that they were delivered / returned. They think they can still do something.

I feel rather shitty that this hits the supplier and not the manufacturer but I also feel rather shitty that
I was sent faulty podules and somewhat led-up-the-garden-path when told to return them to Plan B.

I don't have the money to throw away so easily.

[droolmaster0]

I never sent Peter any money, so obviously didn't use a credit card or paypal. I have virtually no proof that he has my Milton - in fact, his post on the members only forum is the closest thing that I have, plus a very vague email from 'Jennifer'.

While I'm far from being a lawyer, I just can't imagine that I have what would constitute enough legal evidence to force him to pay me some large some of money (plus - how to value this thing, which was really a special project, built for a particular person).

Perhaps a post to AH at some point, asking if anyone has bought a blue Milton from Peter in the last few months would be appropriate....

[wetterberg]

[wetterberg]

Anyone near the new workshop location? I wonder if there's people there at all... last report was on a work day: "empty" IIRC?

[phaedra]

[jonkull]

I live near Plan B but I work 9am to 6pm and with traffic getting there and back to work on my lunch hour isn't possible. I could ride over on the weekend but unless he keeps weekend hours that will serve no real purpose.

[droolmaster0]

I have a theory that everyone who has posted in this thread is actually Peter Grenader. I know that I am.

[phaedra]

[sascha.victoria]

I just called Peter's cell phone and there was a message saying: At the subscribers request this phone isn't receiving incoming calls.

I went over to Plan B 2 weeks ago at 1130 in the morning and there was nobody there. I can try again on Tuesday...

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

[wetterberg]

@sasha - please do go by there again. Although there may have been.... pressures to move production to a private facility, say, someones new home?

[sascha.victoria]

In the last month or so when chatting about Peter a few little birdies told me some pretty crazy stories about Peter. I wouldn't be surprised if he has been evicted from Helms Bakery or if it was an impending doom. If that's the case I'm sure he'll just move the operation into his house. Its also very much a possibility that his ship has sunk... and we're the one's who are fucked.

[REwire]

All the speculation on living situations or workspaces is useless since Peter is still delivering modules to Big City Music.

[Muff Wiggler]

[wetterberg]

[REwire]

[jonkull]

[KyleEasterly]

On a somewhat related note, what's the legality of someone cloning (or reverse-engineering then designing the same functionality with a different PCB and front panel layout) the designs?

Seeing the cloned Buchla modules in the other thread got me thinking...

[MrDys]

That was discussed in this thread.

It's a pretty shady move, all told. Those Buchla clones were given the go-ahead by Don himself. Given the situation, you can bet Peter will bring a lawsuit over it.

[wetterberg]

[PGre]

Hello! Im Peter G the dude you all hate!

At the moment we have bought a new car, namely a Chevrolet TrailBlazer
and that we did from the outstanding sales of Plan B modules. Jennifer and
i are on our way to Alaska to look for a even bigger house, we intend to
do a early retirement based on the last and outstanding sale of Plan B
modules!

As i said once before, don't be mad, one day we can all laugh at this.

Thank you all and be well! Bye!

PS: Newer forget, all Plan B modules are up to MIL standard and
will last forever.

[vav]

Best Alter Ever.

[SynthBaron]

[sascha.victoria]

Legally, you can't really do anything when you're dealing with such small amounts of money. Sure, $600 in modules might be a lot to one person but in the courts of law that's chicken scratch and in actuality its more trouble then its worth to deal with.

One thing is for sure, Peter's credit has to be pretty fucked from all of this. Lots of people made PayPal claims and charge backs on their credit cards. That is going to have a huge impact on his ability to buy parts, build modules, etc...

I wish there was an emoticon for a smelly dump because that's what I'd like to see on Peter's door step. Instead we have burning.

[Muff Wiggler]

[A Dingleberry Monstrosity]

B&!!!!!

[sascha.victoria]

[suitandtieguy]

[e-grad]

Guess he's referring to the clones projects over at electromusic.

For the 292 LPG and the 282 Function Gen. clone projects approval was sought and given by Don Buchla. No, go-ahead for the 258 VCO project though IIRC. Thus there were no pcbs offered.

According to the respective person offering the pcbs.

[Mr White]

[Muff Wiggler]