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Watch out! I just nuked 1-post user "gear101" after receiving five different complaints over the course of about 20mins that he's sending PMs to people offering to sell gear. Seems pretty fishy! I'm sure he'll be back under a different name but with the same old game. Be careful! Thanks to everyone who let me know about this guy.



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converting between minijacks and bananas on 200e
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Author converting between minijacks and bananas on 200e
franzschuier
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Parallel Worlds wrote:
.
in detail: i tested the 250e cv1 out, stopped in a step with this step knob turned all the way to 0volts. my analog voltometer showed 0volts
(my voltometer being a Doepfer A-197 module).

also tested the cv out of an AD from an 281e, without it being triggered by anything. again 0volts.

so, no offset in the Buchla 200e banana outs.
(unless there is offset in the 259e and 261e mod osc banana outs?)

...the weather for cross-patching seems fine....

also, no module of mine has been damaged so far, from today's crosspatching...
(but cross-patch at your own risk of course...)


We should have a buchla sticky with voltages and infos like this!

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dougcl
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Parallel Worlds wrote:

btw, in that sense, many serge NTO/PCO waveform outputs have offset (as they are not Bipolar, apart from the sinewave), various euro modules lfo outputs have offsets, etc, etc... but there is nothing stopping anyone to use these as audio sources of course.


In general for euro, no. This is surprising to hear about in Serge-land.

The Buchla does seem to tolerate negative voltages into the CV jacks, they are however simply ignored. So if you run your euro LFO into a Buchla banana, only half the signal will do anything unless you employ some kind of offset manually.
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Parallel Worlds
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

dougcl wrote:
Parallel Worlds wrote:

btw, in that sense, many serge NTO/PCO waveform outputs have offset (as they are not Bipolar, apart from the sinewave), various euro modules lfo outputs have offsets, etc, etc... but there is nothing stopping anyone to use these as audio sources of course.


In general for euro, no. This is surprising to hear about in Serge-land.

The Buchla does seem to tolerate negative voltages into the CV jacks, they are however simply ignored. So if you run your euro LFO into a Buchla banana, only half the signal will do anything unless you employ some kind of offset manually.


yep, the doepfer lfo's have some waveforms that are bipolar and some unipolar, (and maybe that is true for other lfo modules from other euro makers), so, there's the offset you mention...
also some waveforms of the Serge vco's are unipolar and the sinewave is bipolar.
but, in a system with a single nature of sockets that is no problem really. you use the offset in some cases as you like and, in other cases, you just add some negative cv offset and make the offset-ed wave bipolar... smile

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e-grad
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

What might perceived as a limitation today has obviously historical reasons. To understand why CV and audio signals are seperated you'll have to keep in mind the electronical constraints in the 1970s. Regarding the 200e: Don wanted to keep the standard he has established in the 1970s.

What is called a repeatedly a limitation is none from the point of view by someone who wants to mix and match both a 200 system and a 200e system.

Quote:
Electrical compatibility is also important, and our last power supply revision was in 1970. The 200e provides highly regulated supplies at plus and minus 15 Volts (not the 12 Volts of the external power supply), a fact easily confirmed with a little probing of the innards. Only two older modules, again the 212 and 275, require an additional voltage (24 Volts).
Signal, control voltage and pulse levels are another aspect of compatibility. Once again, our last revision was in 1970 all 200 modules, including 200e versions, have followed suit. My conclusion is that the 200e series modules maintain their intended compatibility with their predecessors, with the aforementioned rare exceptions.

Don Buchla http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar06/articles/crosstalk.htm


Quote:
The early Buchlas utilized several power supplies of different voltages, there were no LEDs at the time so incandescent lamps were used all over the front panels and these had their own power requirements. Also the control voltage were a mighty ten or even more volts in the system, while the outside world was using the standard one volt peak to peak audio line level and Don adapted his audio chain to those levels. The simplest way to keep all of that isolated was to use separate connectors. It was probably this necessary isolation between control and audio that lead to exploration with opto-isolators and the rest is Low Pass Gate history.

From: Cynthia Webster
Subject: Re: [sdiy] to banana or not to banana
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:00:29 -0700

Quote:
The Buchla philosophy here is that by having a different connector, the audio can travel safely on shielded wires at line level, and the audio paths are visually distinct from the control paths. The visual distinction is not to be sneezed at. I find that when tracing a control path, I don't really even see the mini cables carrying audio.

Having system audio running at line level means that tapping an audio signal at any point in a patch and sending it to an external processor is a simple matter of mini-plug to 1/4" cables. Buchla systems also tend to have mini jacks for FM/AM where needed.

From: Chris Muir
Subject: Re: [sdiy] to banana or not to banana
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:16:32 -0700

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Lyonel
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
Quote:
The Buchla philosophy here is that by having a different connector, the audio can travel safely on shielded wires at line level, and the audio paths are visually distinct from the control paths. The visual distinction is not to be sneezed at. I find that when tracing a control path, I don't really even see the mini cables carrying audio.

Having system audio running at line level means that tapping an audio signal at any point in a patch and sending it to an external processor is a simple matter of mini-plug to 1/4" cables. Buchla systems also tend to have mini jacks for FM/AM where needed.

From: Chris Muir
Subject: Re: [sdiy] to banana or not to banana
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:16:32 -0700



Yes, Yes and re-Yes !

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Parallel Worlds
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

of course, i totally understand that Don had specific reasons for doing what he did. i do not doubt that at all.

but, it does not hurt the artist to experiment and crosspatch bananas to minijacks... smile

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dougcl
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Parallel Worlds wrote:

yep, the doepfer lfo's have some waveforms that are bipolar and some unipolar, (and maybe that is true for other lfo modules from other euro makers), so, there's the offset you mention...


I don't know what you are talking about. Perhaps there is one on the A-145? They are all bipolar. That's why they require offset before running to the A-156.

Quote:
also some waveforms of the Serge vco's are unipolar and the sinewave is bipolar.

Again, this is really surprising, to the extent that I am am skeptical about the truth of it.

Quote:

but, in a system with a single nature of sockets that is no problem really. you use the offset in some cases as you like and, in other cases, you just add some negative cv offset and make the offset-ed wave bipolar... smile


Unipolar to bipolar is handled automatically in AC coupled circuits, which is probably the most common scenario.
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Parallel Worlds
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Unipolar regarding the Doepfer lfo's: the unipolar pulse output of A146 and the saw output of the A147 (and maybe there are more in other lfo modules...?) i do not have the time to measure all of them....

Unipolar regarding the Serge: the Saw and Triangle output of the Serge PCO for sure, and (most probably) the saw and triangle output of the NTO. also, for sure, the Blue banana outputs of the DSG and the DTG. and maybe more. again i do not have the time to measure everything.

i work and use my modulars almost daily, for the last 9 years, so, i really work with them a lot.

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Parallel Worlds
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:

Unipolar to bipolar is handled automatically in AC coupled circuits, which is probably the most common scenario.


of course! but i was talking about the situation that you want to make bipolar a cv source that will go into a cv input, then you have to add the cv offset yourself.

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Parallel Worlds
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

just quickly checked a few more things:
the Doepfer A100 and A111: all waveforms are Bipolar. (ok, i expected that as, IIRC, their outputs are all ac-coupled...)

and, all the other waveforms of all other Doepfer LFO's are Bipolar...

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