Muff's Modules & More

[clarke68]

A thread for people who are building out my CGS Euro Panels, or really anyone who's doing CGS PCBs in Euro. Post questions, post pictures, share tips, share parts...we're all in this together!

These panels are all sold out, however I am now taking orders for another run of a few them here, and am actively checking interest for the rest here.


The knobs I used for my builds (all the photos below) are from Jameco. Obviously you can use any knobs you want, but it will help if you get the size close. Sizes and Jameco part #s are:

small - 0.55" - 136241
medium - 19.8mm - 264990
large (on MSU only) - 33.3mm - 264946

[clarke68]

MSU






This panel uses the following PCBs:
CGS29 - Wave Multiplier
CGS35 - Synthacon VCF
CGS77 - Serge '73 VCF


Panel parts, for easier copy/pasting:

Alpha 16mm Potentiometer, solder terminals
SmallBear - 1005A
Mouser - 313-1000F
Jameco - 286302

Kobiconn 3.5mm Phone Connectors
Mouser - 16PJ138

3/16" Standoff
Mouser - 534-1895
Jameco - 133656

[clarke68]

Quad Slope






This panel uses 2 CGS114 PCBs.

Note that building out CGS114 is a tad rough...it wasn't intended to become a mainstream PCB (but has caught on for obvious reasons). As such, it doesn't have a proper power connector, and the overall panel wiring isn't quite a clear as some of Ken's other projects. Everything you need to know is at the link above (and I've tried to help with this build guide), it just takes a little more brain power to figure it all out.

That said, if you want an easier time (and don't mind spending twice the money for twice the number of PCBs) you might consider building 4 CGS75 instead.


Panel parts, for easier copy/pasting:

Alpha 16mm Potentiometer, solder terminals
SmallBear - 1005A
Mouser - 313-1000F
Jameco - 286302

Kobiconn 3.5mm Phone Connectors
Mouser - 16PJ138

3/16" Standoff
Mouser - 534-1895
Jameco - 133656

3mm LED Lens
Mouser - 593-2000C (note that the letter at the end is the color of the lens. "C" stands for clear, my build above uses "B" blue)

SP3T Toggle Switch
Mouser - 633-M202402-RO

[clarke68]

West Coast Mini Synth



Note that, even though it's not shown here, you must use a bracket to mount the PCBs to the West Coast Mini Synth panel.



The West Coast Mini Synth uses the following PCBs:

2 CGS48 - VCO
2 CGS64 - VCA
CGS67 - Active Real Ring Mod
CGS114 - DUSG
CGS04 - Mixer

Panel parts, for easier copy/pasting:

Alpha 16mm Potentiometer, solder terminals
SmallBear - 1005A
Mouser - 313-1000F
Jameco - 286302

Alpha Single-Gang 9mm Potentiometer, PC Mount
SmallBear - 1012
Mouser - 311-1902F

Kobiconn 3.5mm Phone Connectors
Mouser - 16PJ138

3/16" Standoff
Mouser - 534-1895
Jameco - 133656

3mm LED Lens
Mouser - 593-2000C (note that the letter at the end is the color of the lens. "C" stands for clear, my build above uses "B" blue)

SP3T Toggle Switch
Mouser - 633-M202402-RO

[clarke68]

Funky Drummer




Functionally equivalent to the left half of Zthee's SWAMP panel, this panel uses the following PCBs:

CGS13
CGS36
CGS31


Panel parts:

Alpha 16mm Potentiometer, solder terminals
SmallBear - 1005A
Mouser - 313-1000F
Jameco - 286302

Alpha Single-Gang 9mm Potentiometer, PC Mount
SmallBear - 1012
Mouser - 311-1902F

Kobiconn 3.5mm Phone Connectors
Mouser - 16PJ138

3/16" Standoff
Mouser - 534-1895
Jameco - 133656

3mm LED Lens
Mouser - 593-2000C (note that the letter at the end is the color of the lens. "C" stands for clear, my build above uses "B" blue)

Pulse Divider Reset - Mouser #633-FB15ANEP2
Note actual part number is 633-FB15ANEP2-xy, where x is the size (F = small, H = large) and y is the color (C = red, A = black, B = white) of the button cap. This part is pretty critical, as the hole in the panel is specifically sized for this switch. Good quality switch, tho...tested to 50k cycles.

Gated Comparator Manual Loop/Load - Mouser #633-M201901-RO
There are probably other switches that will fit here, just be sure you get one that's ON - OFF - (ON)

Digital Noise Clock & Gated Comparator Loop Enable - most any SPDT ON - ON will work, the mounting holes are 0.25 in. which seems typical. I used part #317236 from Jameco.

[fonik]

these look nice!

[clarke68]

Mounting PCBs to the Panel

On all the panels except for the West Coast Mini Synth you can mount the PCBs directly to the panel...the mounting holes are sized to fit the standard (6" x 2") CGS PCB. This is the MSU:



But why do it like that when all the cool kids are using brackets!?!



Brackets are easy to make. These are made from 1/2" aluminum L-brackets, available at any hardware store, easily cut with a hack saw to 4.25 inches. Note that you don't need L-brackets, just about any metal strip will do. I drill mine with a hand drill. Let me know if anyone needs a step-by-step on doing this:



I want to reiterate that you must use brackets with the West Coast Mini Synth. For all the others it's an option. You wouldn't want all those boards sticking out anyway! Check it out:



Note that these are the brackets I made a few months ago as a test, before I even had the actual panels in hand. Check out how sloppy they are:



...and yet it still fits (with a little cajoling) into the rack. Also note that this is a Tiptop Audio Happy Ending kit...with brackets, even the Mini Synth is borderline skiff-friendly!


You can do this!

[clarke68]

[Pfurmel]

[lazerkind]

Great mounting guide Clarke
Looking forward to hear a heavy "clunk!" in my mailbox any day now.

[fate]

did you make the angled aluminum pieces that go on the standoffs?

[keninverse]

Sweet looking panels...I LOVE the design of these. I have to say you have quite a knack for designing the layout. Easy to read = easy to patch. Cannot wait to start building.

[clarke68]

Thanks guys! Really glad you dig the panels. Of all the aspects of SDIY, I actually enjoy panel design the most...it's thrilling for me that more people get to use these panels.

[clarke68]

If you're building a Quad Slope or a West Coast Mini Synth, Mongo posted a DUSG "review" over at Electro-Music...it has some really great tips on working with this board, check it out:

http://electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=50674

[lukas412]

wow these looks so amazing. really wish i would have gotten in on these. nice work!

[clarke68]

[jenamu6]

Could these panels and designs be easily bananafied?

[lukas412]

[dude]

gorgeous

[SMS303]

[RealDudes]

Can we see a pick of the completed backside of one of these beauties? they look

[jenamu6]

[SMS303]

[clarke68]

[RealDudes]

they look like architecture models

[clarke68]

[apfEID]

these are beautiful, I hope I find time to start doing some DIY next year...

[Monobass]

man I can't wait to start mine...

did you post the details of what knobs you used somewhere?

[scozbor]

yes these panels have barged in and jumped my DIY queu!

[negativspace]

[clarke68]

[falafelbiels]

[clarke68]

I went through Ken's site and did a quick search for everything written about building these PCBs for use with +/- 12v. If you find (or know of) any other 12v mods, please post it and I'll keep this list updated.

CGS29 - Wave Multipliers
While untested, the module should work on +/-12 volts.

CGS77 - Serge 1973 VCF
Will run on +/- 12 volts or +/-15 volts.

CGS35 - Steiner VCF
Version 1.3 can be built as shown on the overlay of the PCB ... For use with +/-12 volt supplies, the two diodes marked with rings around their pads on the overlay should be replaced with links.


CGS114 - DUSG / CGS75 - VCS
Will run on +/- 12 volts or +/-15 volts.

CGS48 - VCO
The module will work on +/-12 volts if the 20k resistor connected to pin 3 of the LM311 is reduced to 14k.


CGS13 - Gated Comparator
Resistors RA and RB form the voltage divider that determines the gate output voltage. Use 1k for RB. When running off +/-15 volts use 1k8 for RA. When running off +/-12 volts, use RA = 1k5.

CGS31 - Digital Noise
While untested, the module should work on +/-12 volts.

CGS36 - Pulse Divider/Boolean Logic
VER1.3 PCBs have the upper part of the output dividers marked as RA on the PCB. These resistors are 1k8 for +/-15V operation and 1k5 for +/-12 volt operation. Likewise the two 1k8 resistors in the inverters should be 1k5 for 12 volt operation. The two 1k5 resistors in the OR and AND gates could probably be increased to 1k8 for 15 volt operation. Check your output voltages when you have assembled them. Ideally the voltages will swing between 0 volts and +5 volts. Some small variance either way is nothing to be concerned about.

[simfonik]

Based on the rear panel image for the MSU, it looks like I need the following potentiometers:

(10x) 313-1000F-100K
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Alpha-Taiwan/RV16AF-10-15R1-B100K/  ?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuarXojuOTsc9jR33G5hGO%252bcj2YiaooI6I%3d

(1x) 313-1000F-1K
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Alpha-Taiwan/RV16AF-10-15R1-B1K/?q s=sGAEpiMZZMuarXojuOTsc7XUj8Kk%2f1Ts8uwZ%252baquuNs%3d

(1x) 313-1000F-1M
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Alpha-Taiwan/RV16AF-10-15R1-B1M/?q s=sGAEpiMZZMuarXojuOTsc7XUj8Kk%2f1TscFmzyHqZdKI%3d

(1x) 313-1000F-20K
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Alpha-Taiwan/RV16AF-10-15R1-B20K/? qs=sGAEpiMZZMuarXojuOTsc3UoKTY4nCEoKqEqi3d3N6w%3d

(1x) 50k log .... can't seem to find this at Mouser or Jameco.

Does that look right? Any idea on the 50k log pot?

[negativspace]

50k logs @ Mouser - 313-1500f-50k

[simfonik]

[bkbirge]

Can't wait to get started on a funky drummer and mini synth. Anyone got one of those shareable mouser project BOM's going yet? If not I'll see about putting a couple together, they make ordering (after the first time) so much easier.

[Tall Midget]

Hey Brian, I already posted one in the other thread, it's just an Excel spreadsheet but it works with mousers BOM import tool. It needs some work described below to it but it's mostly complete. The only things missing AFAIK are the 22k (25k) trimmer for the Serge Voltage Controlled Filter and the 22k-25k trim for the CGS VCO. I'm not even sure if the other trim-pots I specified are still in stock. That's all that's keeping me from starting the project are the trim-pots. I'm not sure if I made the changes for 12 volt operation listed above either. If someone were to make it a complete BOM that'd be really neat.

[Tall Midget]

Also here's some of the parts needed for the Funky Drummer:

[bkbirge]

Cool, didn't know about the BOM import tool.

[bkbirge]

edit: found some BOM mistakes, took it down, will re-upload when I fix 'em.

[simfonik]

MSU panel arrived today. Looks great!

Now the impatient wait for everything else to arrive.

[bkbirge]

OK, here's the corrected BOM for the MiniSynth and FunkyDrummer using Mouser parts and mods for euro (+/-12v operation) put in. I just checked it and the parts are in stock but of course that can change any minute. Also some parts cannot be sourced from Mouser and have been noted accordingly as ebay or bridechamber finds.

As always when using someone else's BOM, do your own double checking. This is a riff off the one Tall Midget provided (thanks TM!) and your own build may require your own personal riffing.

Note: BOM parts are per pcb board, you'll need to double up on some boards (vca and vco) when building the mini synth.

Edit: got rid of the crazy expensive molex male connector, replaced with much cheaper one, saves a lot of $$, Re-download this if you are using an earlier version <[2]

[bkbirge]

...and here's a couple mouser projects that make ordering a LOT easier. They take the BOM from above so if you want different parts you'll need to go in and edit and hit the button to 'save as my own project'. And of course these are just the parts from the BOM that Mouser has, you'll still need to source some stuff from other places (bridechamber, ebay).

Funky Drummer, mouser costs $121.42USD+shipping
https://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=5e66 c16398

West Coast Mini Synth, mouser costs $215.07USD+shipping, includes both vco's and vca's
https://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=16d4 3ff73a

[fate]

The 3/16" Standoff , Mouser - 534-1895 - what thread are these?,

also how did you manage to stack them all?
I was assuming on long screw on the top most board that passes through all 3 standoffs, then a short screw that meets the first standoff nearest the backside of the panel?

[clarke68]

[simfonik]

Mouser is out of stock on the 50k log pots.

http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=IfoOD9RoqaDxUm3GE%2 52bWt%2Fw%3D%3D

Are these the same thing (50K Audio 2741)?

http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=555

[clarke68]

[negativspace]

Everything works perfectly except for the Lockhart folder, and I'm not sure what's wrong with it. It's not like there's a
lot there to go wrong. I'll work on debugging it later, I've checked all the obvious stuff with meter and 'scope, but to
no avail. The PWM pot will be replaced with the correct size pending my next Mouser order... I can't count, evidently.

The Serge VCF is definitely a winner.

[lazerkind]

Nice build negativespace
I remember I had problems with my breadboard lockhart folder when i did that. It never sounded like a folder, more like a bizarre FSU amplifier having a bad day.
Although interesting, not quite what I was expecting. I guess I just have to bite the bullet on that one and get it fixed now...

[negativspace]

Thanks!

Weird FSU amp having a bad day is pretty close to what I'm getting, too.

[clarke68]

negativspace:

Wow! That looks awesome! Nice to finally see how one of these looks with the boards stuffed. Any panel wiring tips you want to give us would be much appreciated.

A bizarre FSU amplifier having a bad day isn't all bad, considering it's only 1/10 of the panel, but I'll be curious to hear of a solution if you find one.

Are you in a place where you can record some samples? Inquiring ears want to hear!

[SMS303]

We have a winner for fast building: Negativspace
Wow Jason that's fast

[negativspace]

Cheers, guys!

I cheated a little and had the PCBs all stuffed before the panels even arrived... And fortunately for me, there were no mistakes to debug excepting possibly the Lockhart section. I did wire one pot (Serge VCF audio input) backwards, but I always do something like that. I'll dig down and fix it at some point, it just needs a wire swap.

When you're wiring the panel, go slowly and doublecheck your connections. You're not going to want to go debugging and making corrections once it's all done. Try to keep things as tidy as you can with wire ties, and make sure you cut the wire with enough slack that you can still manipulate the PCB stack once it's all put together. You don't want to have to cut wires in order to get to the solder-side of any of the 3 boards - in case you need to modify/debug. I did it so that all of my wiring runs over the top edge of the PCBs. I can flip all 3 boards up toward the top that way - almost as if I'd used hinged standoffs a-la the CGS Serge panels.

Sounds... I'd like to sort the Lockhart section first but I'll try. Unless I get sidetracked building the Minisynth...

[negativspace]

Here's one sample, E350 audio into the Serge VCF and then into the Steiner VCF. (LP->LP, BP->BP, HP->HP.) Serge cutoff is modulated by an LFO and the Steiner cutoff is modulated by a 208 Random. With high resonance on both filters, it's an interesting effect as the various cutoffs are swept through each other. The really nasal sound is the Serge at high resonance. So sweet.

[s]http://soundcloud.com/negativspace/cgs-msu-cascaded-vcfs[/s]

[Monobass]

[clarke68]

[negativspace]

Yeah, you could definitely make it shallower if you wanted to. It's just under 70mm deep as-shown, including the power cable. (Got a 75mm Skiff? You're good.)

[ringstone]

Hmmm.... I'm not completely sure that the switch specified in the BOMs for the USG's is correct. From Ken's DUSG page, and the schematic there, I think that a 3-position SPDT switch (ON-OFF-ON) is actually required. A SP3T switch switches one input terminal between 3 output terminals, a SPDT ON-OFF-ON switches two input terminals alternately to one output terminal, with the third position (centre OFF) switching neither...

In the case of the DUSG board, we have two terminals (MA and MB) alternately being switched to a third (MC or ground) in position 1 (up) and 3 (down) on the switch, while in position 2 (centre), neither MA or MB are connected to MC (ground)... note that Ken does state on his page a SP3T switch is required as well, but shows 2 switches with 3 terminals (SP3T switches have 6 terminals I believe).

Please correct me if I'm wrong!

Cheers
Blair

EDIT: Of course the converse is also true for the SP3T - you can switch 3 input terminals alternately to one output terminal, which would work in this case, but it is redundant - as MC is ground anyway, the centre position is just connecting ground back to ground...

[clarke68]

I bought Mouser #633-M202402-RO for the Rise/Both/Fall switches in the Quad Slope. They better be right, they were pretty expensive! The have 6 terminals.

[ringstone]

[ringstone]

Note that the BOM listed on the DUSG page at Ken's site states SPDT switches as well (though on-off-on isn't specified). However, the rough build instructions at the top of the page mention 1P3T switches... it's quite confusing.

Blair

[rico loverde]

heres some of my DUSG build shots. Just gotta wire to the pcbs now.

[negativspace]

[clarke68]

Nice looking build and all...but I'm jealous of your parts bins!

[ringstone]

Looking good mate, let us know how you get on with the switch wiring...

I'm working on my MSU at the moment, going to see if I can replicate the issue negativspace was having with his Lockhart folder...

Cheers
Blair

[regenbot]

Looking good, wish i had jumped on the DUSG panel myself. Maybe there will be abother run someday.

[clarke68]

regenbot
I've got extras of the the Quad Slope (and other) panels...send me a PM if you're interested!

[Veqtor]

So, any clarity on the DUSG switches? Looks to me (studying the schematic) as if it is supposed to be single pole on-off-on switches. It seems as if the switch is used to switch out (by grounding) the incoming cv signal. At one setting (cv fall) the cv going to rise is switched out, with cv rise it's the opposite and with both none of them is switched out. Quite clever really but 1P3T seems overkill?!

[iopop]

You only need a single pole on-off-on for the DUSG switch. if you have a double pole, just use one side.

(Sometimes, I thought about buying only double pole switches to get a price break and be sure to have stuff at home).

[MicroFi]

The front panel on that West Coast Mini Synth looks wonderful.
A shame I can't solder ... and I guess it would be way too expensive (man hours) to have someone else build it for you, right?

[clarke68]

[negativspace]

In addition to Todd, whose reputation is outstanding, I also do custom building in Euro format. If I were quoting someone a price to build the Mini Synth, I'd put it somewhere in the $7-800 range. (For parts, PCBs, and labor - everything but the panel.) It's a chunk of money, but if you think about what's in the module it's right on par with the retail market.

2x VCO - ~$350
1x DUSG - ~$225
2x VCA + mixer for sum out - ~$150
1x Ringmod - $75
Total - ~$800

[rico loverde]

So i finished my quad dusg (will post pics and some build tips later) and for the most part its working.

So 1 and 3 are acting weird and 2 and 4 are working perfect. A bit weird to me, that half of each one wroks great and the other half is screwy. On 1 the switch is messing with the fall and rate times depending where the switch position is. If switch is at rise the rise pot works, if at fall the fall pot works. When at both neither pot works.

3 is just wack, cant get any enevelope action off it. Im gonna take the rest the day off and check my panel wiring and solder points tomorrow...

2 and 4 are working great though, used an on,off,on switch and it works great. Sounds great as vco and is also a great envelope gen. I cant wait to get 1 and 3 working.

[MicroFi]

[fate]

hrm im a little confused, I have all my pcbs, but it seems like my wave multiplier PCB seems a bit smaller in width than my synthacon filter/serge vcf. and the lockhart grider/lag fold is on another pcb, not sure how im gunna mount it now =/

[ringstone]

[clarke68]

[clarke68]

[negativspace]

Ok, fine. $1,000 it is.

Admittedly I haven't built my Mini-Synth yet so that was a bit of a blind guess... but I don't think it's far off. There aren't many expensive parts on these boards. I'm just now beginning to stuff the PCBs, though, so I'll know exactly what's involved by the end of the year.

[hv0190]

Sorry for interrupting you guys, but as my pms don't seem to get through I'd like to ask here in public if all panels are sold or if there are any left.

[Veqtor]

So, given that we don't need the dual switch... what would be a suitable replacement?

[clarke68]

[negativspace]

So I spent way too much time last night stuffing my Mini Synth PCBs... ended up going to bed at about 9 this morning.

But while doing all of that really... 'brain-neutral' work, I got to thinking about the final result of my labors. A Mini-Synth + MSU give you so many possibilities (even 2 complete voices, if you like) in 64hp. But while it has all of the major modules covered, some of the basics are completely neglected. There's no mixer, really, and no attenuators. No multiples, either, and since many of the modules had their extra inputs and input attenuators omitted to save space on the panels... well, you're going to need that kinda stuff to really get this thing patched up.

So I hatched the idea of a 16hp 'control' panel to complement this line. My sketch has 3 attenuators with the .75" knobs across the top ~third, a 3-input bipolar mixer with a unipolar output attenuator using 4x .5" knobs across the middle, and then 3 sets of 4 jacks for passive mults along the bottom. The only PCB this one would require is a CGS04 for the middle section, the others are passive and simply need to be wired at the panel.

Mathematically, it's also very convenient. 64 + 16 = 80, so add a Happy Ending kit with the 4hp uZeus and you completely fill the 84hp with a complete synthesizer.

Whatcha think?

[ringstone]

[ringstone]

[rico loverde]

I love the idea negativspace! My only thought is that you match the same design work as clarkes as id love it to match the other panels graphically. How cool will the minisynth, msu, quad dusg, quad lpg, Funky drummer, and this attenuator/mixer panel be. Total powerhouse of diy goodness.

[clarke68]

[scozbor]

+1 for a Clarke designed utility panel. I'm using these panels as a self contained portable rig and will certainly need basic mixers, mults, vcas, etc.

It might not be as essential if you are using the panels as part of a bigger system though....

[negativspace]

I'd like to see you do it, it needs to be in your style and that's your domain. If you're willing, that's great.

[rico loverde]

Id just like to say how much i love this damn community!

[mono-poly]

I'd love to see some 292 and 281 panels to

[rico loverde]

so I got 3 of 4 of the quad dusg's working, theres still one that is sort of working but its doing some weird shit that i dont get. for some reason when recieving a trigger or when self cycling the fall knob only works when the "fall" setting is selected on the rise/both/ fall switch. same with the rise, only works when rise is selected on the switch. when switched to both neither work...wtf? ive checked my wiring and everything is where it should be, its really baffling me...all other 3 work exactly as they should.

any ideas or thoughts would be awesome.

[ringstone]

[brother303]

Hi,

[brother303]

...and yes,

one or two simple vcas always come in handy...

[negativspace]

Well, the nice thing about the panel I had in mind is that you can fancy it up a little if you want - take the attenuators and add an opamp on stripboard as you say, makes them attenuverters. (My plan.)

Of course there's a lot of utility stuff that would really help out here but we've only got so many hp to work with.

[brother303]

Hi mate,

[negativspace]

... or I suppose you could also use push-pull switchpots + opamps on the attenuators to make them bipolar but with full-muting. And buffer your mults, or make 2 sets horizontally with 1 in, 4 outs and an inverted out. Or whatever!

I like it, a panel that can be as much or as little as you want it to be. Looking forward to this! I've begun work on my Mini Synth now and I know I'm going to need it.

[brother303]

Hi,

[simfonik]

@negativspace – if it's readily accessible, would you mind taking a hi-res picture of the stuffed CGS35? I'm building mine today and it'd be helpful as an additional reference.

[negativspace]

Sure, that one sits on top of the stack. Easy to take pics. It's a pretty easy build, though, you shouldn't have problems.

[simfonik]

Thanks. I bought a parts kit from Todd Fletcher for each of the PCBs on the MSU build. I'm sorting resistors for CGS35 right now and this is what I have:


82R 1
330R 1
390R 1
1k 6
2k2 4
3k9 1
8k2 1
10k 1
47k 4
100k 1
180k 1
220k 3
390k 1
2M2 1

There are also 4x 470k resistors. I'm not sure what those are for. The only thing left for resistors in Ken Stone's part list is: "1k lin pot 1", "100k 25 turn trim 1", "100k lin pot 1 (2)".

[simfonik]

Got an answer from Todd on the (4) 470k resistors. Looks like there were just some extras in the bag.

[ringstone]

There are different versions of the CGS boards, which have slightly different BOMs (Ken usually combines them), and in some cases there are off-board and even optional components as well... just follow the board overlay, checking the relevant CGS page for any build issues etc. and you should be right.

The only issue I have found so far is that there is a 330R resistor required for the Wave Multiplier board that's not in Ken's BOM... I was going to mention this before but it slipped my mind. Not an issue for me as I keep a full stock of resistors but might be an annoyance if you're putting a BOM into Mouser or similar... Ken uses a lot of 330R resistors so it's probably worth ordering a few extra if you're building CGS boards.

Cheers
Blair

[rico loverde]

finally got all 4 dusg's running...

[simfonik]

Sounds great, Rico!

[simfonik]

My component kit for the CGS35 came with these capacitors:

1uF 50V ... assuming in place of 1uF 35V (4)
10uF 50V ... assuming in place of 10uF 35V (4)
47uF 35V ... assuming in place of 47uF 25V (2)

Are there any issues with using higher voltage capacitors?

[wmonk]

[simfonik]

[negativspace]

Nice, Rico. Are we the first two, or are you other guys just holding out? I wanna see more!

I'll have a Mini-Synth finished in the next week, waiting for one last parts order from Mouser and then the wiring begins. Finished my second MSu last night.

[ringstone]

I would be MUCH further along with these builds except
a) Xmas
b) I have a few other slightly more urgent things like power supplies to finish off
c) Xmas
d) Xmas



Cheers
Blair

[negativspace]

I've built 2 MSUs and 13 other modules in the last 2 weeks. (And stuffed the PCBs and panel for a Mini-Synth.) Granted I basically do this full-time, but still... I don't want excuses. Sleep when you're dead!

[rico loverde]

[negativspace]

See, that's what I'm talking about.

[ringstone]

[rico loverde]

[simfonik]

@negativspace - on CGS35, did you leave off the 2 diodes that are to the left and above the 2n2's? On Ken's site it states, "For use with +/-12 volt supplies, the two diodes marked with rings around their pads on the overlay should be replaced with links."

It seems pretty obvious those are the two to leave off, but it doesn't hurt to double check.

[negativspace]

[clarke68]

[bkbirge]

[rico loverde]

[clarke68]

This is the stuff:
1/2 in. x 96 in. Aluminum Angle Bar

It's kind of hard to ask for by name. I usually find it in the hardware section (with the screws & nuts) next to the threaded rods and other long, metal products. As Rico said, flat works fine if you can find that...just avoid steel or anything so thick it'll be a pain to drill.

[bkbirge]

Awesome, thanks guys.

[asterisk]

follow up question to the L brackets while we are on that subject.
what do you guys use to drill holes in brackets and faceplates?
can you use a regular power drill with a special bit or something?

any tips would be great.

[ringstone]

[simfonik]

Two boards stuffed and one to go. I just noticed CGS29 has SMT components. Any suggestions on how to work with these?

[rico loverde]

[ringstone]

[clarke68]

[iopop]

I tried to use small tweezers for smd, but later found it easiest to just use the nail on my finger to put the part in place. The key is to be very sparse with how much solder you use.

[rico loverde]

@ringstone, i caught it and changed it. They should all be opposite of the board overlay.

[simfonik]

I finished stuffing PCBs on CGS35 and CGS77. Hoping to finish this project over the coming weekend. I'm not quite sure how to do the SMT components on CGS29 and I'm also wondering how to run power to the boards. Looking at the picture of the MSU negativspace finished, there doesn't appear to be 4 pin connectors on each of the boards. I'm assuming it can be setup to run off of a single power connector?

[negativspace]

I used the prototyping area on the CGS29 to set up a 'power bus' of sorts, from which I then powered all of the other modules.

The SMT caps are actually pretty easy - apply a dab of solder to one of the two pads per pair. Then grab a part with tweezers and while re-melting that dab of solder, slide it onto the pad. Then solder the other side, and afterwards go reflow the first side if necessary. You don't need a lot of solder. Check the back of the CGS35, there are SMT caps back there too.

[simfonik]

Whoops. Didn't realize I actually posted part of the same question last night. Sorry about that. Guess it was late.

Thanks for the tips on the SMT caps. I don't think there were SMT caps in my component kit for the CGS35. Are they essential?

If you can share any additional details on how you set up the 'power bus' on the CGS29 I'd be most grateful.

[rico loverde]

For power i wire all the boards together and on the last board use the standard MTA 156 connector. Mattson modular has some great mta156 to euro power cables that i use to connect to a standard euro power supply. The link is below...

http://www.mattsonminimodular.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_inf o&products_id=48&zenid=3efcc6e43010cef96ba7054bb7395509

[negativspace]

Well, there's already a ground trunk in the proto space so that's taken care of. For +v and -v, you just run some wires from the MTA156's pads over to the pins for the IC. Use wire to jumper a few of the 'IC' pads together so that you have 2 or 3 pads connected to +v and to -v. There's plenty of pins to work with (8) so you can do 3 each with a little empty space in between, which is how I did it. That gives you one spare connection, which is probably unnecessary but does no harm.

There are traces already on the board connecting the IN pads to adjacent pads. Run wires from the adjacent, connected pads out to each module's power input pads, and you're all good. (Oh yeah, and the grounds all to the ground trunk of course.)

[negativspace]

I got around to testing and calibrating MSU panel #2 tonight, and took the opportunity to record a little demo of the Steiner VCF.

[s]http://soundcloud.com/negativspace/cgs-msu-steiner-filter[/s]

[aL Pariah]

Out of interest, how much roughly does it cost for all the parts for something like the West Coast Mini Synth or other modules featured here?



.....which all look gorgeous.

[bkbirge]

[rico loverde]

heres a little demo of the DUSG, no other modules were used except some reverb from a Malekko Chiklet

This thing is great, Im really enjoying it.

[s]http://soundcloud.com/deadlover/dusg-demo-1[/s]

http://soundcloud.com/deadlover/dusg-demo-1

[hv0190]

As a kind of warming-up exercise (and because I know my pcbs for the Westcoast Minisynth and the Quadslope will not arrive before the end of January) I built a perfboard-version of the DUSG ... in fact it is only a SUSG, but it works fine, even if it looks more like a bird's nest!
As I didn't have any more space on my 4HP Eurorack panel I left out the 1v/oct input and the bipolar and AC outputs (though I tried them out and they seemd to work OK). Tracking was fair (ca. 2-3 octaves).
As for the price: the perfboard SUSG including all the hardware amounts to ca. 30 Euro (ca. $39), the Quadslope will cost me around 170$ - provided German customs won't intercept the pcbs, but even including customs fees it would only be around 185$ ... quite a good deal, I think

[Monobass]

Are 47K pots acceptable replacements for the 50k lin and log pots?

[ringstone]

[ringstone]

Got back into building after Xmas, but this MSU has to be the most disaster-prone project I've ever built First off the Steiner filter board ended up with numerous problems (all my fault - don't build when you aren't feeling well!) but I seem to have ironed most if not all of them out now. After building the Wave Multiplier board only the Grinder was working (and I'm not 100% sure it's correct). I've just diagnosed the issue with the Lockhardt - it turned out that the board I have is missing a connection to the negative rail from the 15k resistor on the 2N3904 - connected that and it sprang into life. Still nothing from the Wave Multiplier though

At least the Serge filter worked first up!

Cheers
Blair

[Monobass]

ringstone, that doesn't fill me with confidence for my build!

[ringstone]

[clarke68]

[ringstone]

[bkbirge]

Stuffed all PCB's for the funky drummer, now comes the difficult part, wiring up the i/o to the panel and then troubleshooting my inevitable mistakes.

[negativspace]

I'll pull mine out of the rack here shortly and doublecheck that pad...

[Monobass]

I'm going with these Malekko/Livewire style knobs from Small Bear.

[clarke68]

Looks awesome!

[Monobass]

as do the panels, really great work clarke

[negativspace]

Blair,

That resistor is definitely not connected to -v, and definitely should be according to the schematic. Clearly an error in the PCB layout.

It's definitely doing what it should be doing now, too.

(Sad thing is, I went over this section of the PCB like twice myself and didn't catch that.)

[ringstone]

[simfonik]

[negativspace]

All you need to do is connect the pad circled in red to the -V rail. One of the '-VE' pad just up above it should work fine.

[simfonik]

Thanks. That's what I was thinking.

SMT turned out to be much easier than I thought it would be. Thanks again for the tips on how to do that.

[bkbirge]

Started the panel wiring on the funky drummer this weekend and I think I fell down the rabbit hole. Just connecting the grounds together on the kobi's was quite an exercise. I think I need glasses.

I chose to use some 28 gauge ribbon I had lying around for most of the connections from the pcb boards, saves a lot of time from my usual method of measuring out hook up wire, cutting it on both ends, tinning it, and not misplacing it before use. Time will tell how sturdy it is, not usually a fan of ribbon. If you are doing the same make sure you use the strain relief holes on the CGS PCB's as described on Ken's site.

For anyone using the Mouser BOM for the FunkyDrummer that I posted on page 3 or 4, there are few parts missing... you'll need some more 1.8k ohm resistors, another 557 transistor, a 0.47uf cap, and the proper standoffs (thought I put those in the BOM but I don't have 'em so I guess not).

Also seriously thinking about getting a special nut driver for those kobi nuts. My panel now has that trendy 'distressed' look in a couple places.

[rico loverde]

[bkbirge]

[Monobass]

Is there any potential for crosstalk in a ribbon?

like I was reading how when computer ribbons went from IDE to ATA the ATA cables had double the wires, but only because they were alternately interleaved with grounds as a shield.

I appreciate 21st century computers and 20th century synth modules are not quite the same use case

[ringstone]

[negativspace]

Yep, I do it the same way. Bus wire is a lifesaver.

[rico loverde]

boards are populated, im all set to go except for the jacks which should be here any day now. below are pics of the quad LPG and the Mini synth. the mini synth is a monster!!! its a touch over 3.25 inches deep. the mini synth is with standoffs, i used velcro and standoffs on the QLPG and worked really well. very secure and way easier. the QLPG is just under 2 inches deep. i could prob get it down to 1.5 if I had the right standoffs..

mini synth









quad lpg

[clarke68]

[bkbirge]

Funky Drummer wiring so far...

[simfonik]

Clarke, is this what you used between the PCBs and the L-brackets (as seen on page 4)?

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Keystone-Electronics/PC104-SS/?qs= sGAEpiMZZMtzcnMBgC2bs6BJGZuB0hh0mw7X7jQZucM%3d

[simfonik]

I'm wiring CGS35 (ver1.3) right now for the MSU build. Looking at the back of the frequency potentiometer (same as what I'm using), and comparing to the wiring diagram on Ken's site, which terminal gets the red wire? Is it the one on the side of the pot that has the notch or the opposite?

[clarke68]

[bensaddiction]

@simfonik - bloody hell those standoffs are a rip off! is that each?


Try looking here - http://www.futurlec.com/Hardware.shtml range between $1.90-3.20 per pack of 12.

Although Futurlec don't carry the built-in male screw ones, I was hoping somebody might know of some "butless" m3 screws in existence? Otherwise I'll have to buy those overpriced ones

[ringstone]

[bensaddiction]

thanks for that ringstone! Just found some 10 packs of male/female for about $3.50 AUD with free postage on ebay

Thats quite a difference vs $8.51 each at Mouser

[ringstone]

[simfonik]

Oh wow, you're not kidding on the price. I didn't even notice that until you pointed it out.

@Clarke, thanks that helps!


Another question on the MSU build... for CGS29, did you change the resistor values that are displayed in the diagram coming off of the Lockhart Folds pot?

[jbaken]

Hey, so I'm trying to sub-out the LM394 for the VCA/VCO and was wondering if it would be possible to use a JFET LSK389 instead of something like the SSM2210 which is expensive and harder to find.. thoughts?

[msprigings]

Has anyone tried the Serge Extended ADSR in Euro?

[ringstone]

[msprigings]

How did you mount if it you don't mind me asking? I think the PCB is 6" which would be pretty deep I thought it might be a pretty cool dual type thing. The 1v/Oct input is quite cool as well. And yes a panel would be cool

[iopop]

Having the Mini Synth pcbs sandwiched as per rico loverde's build, will there be any trouble mounting such a module in a Doepfer LC case?

The data sheet for LC-9 say, "90 mm in the power supply area (bottom right), resp. approx. 110 mm in the remaining area". 110mm => 4.33" so on paper its possible. Im all new to euro and for this project I really need to buy a commercial case.

[rico loverde]

[iopop]

Yup, 3.25" which is 82.55mm. Was that from panel to pcb or panel to highest component?

[rico loverde]

[obviousless]

[ringstone]

[hv0190]

[obviousless]

Ah, I see now. Thanks for the pixels! Enjoy your holiday.

[hv0190]

Sorry mate, but I'm hv0190, not ringstone
I just thought this might be what he was thinking of ...
Oh - I wish I was on holiday right now

[simfonik]

[negativspace]

Alpha pots are easy, if you orient by the text on the back of the pot the lugs are (CW)ALPHA(CCW).

[simfonik]

(CW)ALPHA(CCW) or (ʍɔɔ)ɐɥdןɐ(ʍɔ) is just what I was looking for. Thanks!

[simfonik]

I finished my MSU... kind of. Plugged it in for a test before mounting the PCBs to brackets. I got sound from the Lockhart Grinder and the Wave Multiplier. Moved on to the Steiner, patched CV In and Out and I got

[slimenbones]

So has anyone finished and made a video of these in action yet?

[frozenkore]

Hey, just as heads up, and I don't know if this has already been mentioned, but anyone order Mouser - 311-1902F from mouser for your Funky Drummer. If you use the online filter system and filter for 100k, the spec will say 100k, but the part number and the actual item says, and is, 1k. To make matters worse, if you take the part number 311-1902F-100K for the 100k, the spec says it's 10k . Trust the part number not the spec.

[frozenkore]

Update: I just got off web chat with them. They are sending me a new set of the correct pots for free and they are going to have the warehouse fix the part number to spec info. I'd still check the number though .

[msprigings]

I wanted to do the extended ADSR but 6" is too deep for my case. Soo I'm thinking making a larger module with 2 Serge ADSRs and 2 CGS VCA as they seem to mesh well and fit behind a eurorack panel somehow or another.

Anyone see any problems doing that?

[bkbirge]

Thanks for sharing that, I need to check what I have, I didn't put 'em on the meter before I fixed 'em on the panel.

[frozenkore]

Alright, I have a couple wiring questions on the funky drummer. I figure I'll get them all out before I get the chance to screw it up.

Gated Comparator:
The Manual Loop switch:

1) On the diagram from Ken's site, it says to wire one to +VE. I'm assuming that is the one at the end of the board by the LM393? The loop enable switch is also wired to that spot. Is that okay?

2) The next lead goes to a 15k resistor, then to pin 2 of the LM393. Do that literally mean connect it to the same pad as the second pin of the LM393?

3) The last goes to 8th output jack. I'm assuming I can just connect it directly to the jack where the jack connects to the board? I guess I don't know what can be linked together and what cannot.

4) The LED goes to 0V LED Return. Can I just connect this to any ground?

I'll have questions regarding the mixer as I'll be using the other part of the Digital Noise board for that, but I'm not there yet...

On the Digital Noise board:

The notes say if you're using switched jacks to follow the schematic. Speed CV In and External Clock In are the only two that have directions for all three parts of the jack. Does that mean everything else just uses the tip and the sleeve is left unconnected?

On the Pulse Divider board:

Reset switch goes to RST and ground?


Sorry for the noobish questions, but I'm good at following directions but when they're slightly vague, I don't do well, especially when I'm still new to the electronics aspect of this.

Thanks in advance!

[keninverse]

Seems I missed the CGS DUSG pcb train. Ken seems to be out of them and I haven't heard back from him on whether these will be restocked. Long shot...but anyone know where I can pick two up?

[clarke68]

[frozenkore]

[appliancide]

I bet he will restock them. Also, Ken is pretty good about returning email, so you will probably hear for sure soon.

[iopop]

I asked him about some other "out of stock" PCBs last week and he said "about a month?". So, just hang in there any they come back. Plus they are part of the BOG package so they are definitely not the last ones produces.

[keninverse]

Sweet...Thanks guys

[the bad producer]

Got my panels (thanks clarke!)

Just wondering, anyone building these with bananas? any forseeable issues?

[clarke68]

[the bad producer]

thanks clarke, I reckon I'll try it, if I did use 3.5mm sockets the ones I prefer are 8mm holes anyway... I've got pretty much all I need (I think) to get going this weekend!

[fate]

Does anyone have more details photos of the CGS MSU wiring? I'm a little confused

[ringstone]

[negativspace]

I followed Ken's diagrams pretty faithfully, they're good.

[fate]

i didn't find the diagrams til yesterday! thank you though - im having a bit of trouble though with a part. I ordered kits off of bridechamber for these, and as it stands I have most of the pcbs stuffed, but, I have 1 component that is a blue block labeled 1k250, I'm not sure if this would be 100n capacitor or not or if i need something else

-edit- i think i figured it out to be the 100n component!

[fate]

how are the power connections made from module to module, and which is the final module to put the connector on to make it to a doepfer ribbon cable? - sorry for the stupid questions!

[negativspace]

I stack 'em like this, you can see the (very blurry) power connector there on the CGS29. Head over to the MMM store and pick up a couple of the 4P->Euro power cables George sells for your power connections.

I used the perfboard area on the CGS29 to make a little power distribution bus, and then ran wire from there to the other 2 modules.

[rico loverde]

[ringstone]

Does anybody know what value the VC Sens pot on the Gated Comparator (Funky Drummer panel) should be? I have used 100k linear in line with most of the other CV inputs but I'm getting some interaction with the Sense pot when there is no CV in...

It took me a while to get my head around what the Gated Comparator does, at first I wasn't sure if mine was working correctly. I will write up a screed when I'm done describing how it works and how I wired this up as there are some shortcuts you can take.

Cheers
Blair

EDIT: Well, after I worked all this out I found I had re-invented the wheel, it was already over in the "Best of CGS" thread. Wiring for the gated comparator using the mixer on the Digital Noise board:

http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17446&postdays=0&post order=asc&start=318

Note that purple wire on the Range pot goes to BOTH wiper and CCW.

I added a minor mod as follows - replaced the SPDT Loop Enable switch with a DPDT switch. One pole is wired as before, the other pole switches the input from the IN jack. That way both the loop input and In don't run into the comparator at the same time, as this just tends to fill the buffer up - you switch between them instead. Also when using the Manual Loop switch, you can loop the active buffer easily. Just flip the Manual Loop switch, then the Loop Enable switch, and the current contents of the buffer loop around.

Also, I ended up wiring the switched side of the Ext Clock jack on the Digital Noise to ground, as I was getting some jitter when the Switch was in the Ext position with no clock input. This will switch the noise off. Although it might seem redundant to have a switch for Int/Ext clock since we can use switched jacks in Euro format, I'm glad Clarke did it that way because you can switch back and forth between 2 different clocks.

Finally, the Reset switch is wired to +ve, first look at the schematic on the CGS site seemed to indicate it was ground. Don't know whether this was amended in between the time I first looked at it and when I checked, or whether it was lack of sleep!

[ringstone]

Oh! And before I forget - when testing the gated comparator: MAKE SURE YOU USE A NICE CLEAN SQUARE WAVE CLOCK! There is another comparator on the clock input that is supposed to clean it up but I found it wasn't completely effective, I had a clock that was too hot (Cwejman VCO) and it was clipping and causing all sorts of odd behaviour - skipping and occasional double speed steps for example.

Testing afterwards I found the clock input can be "fooled" with triangle/saw waves etc into producing all sorts of interesting semi-regular rhythmic patterns. So, a happy accident in the long run!

Cheers
Blair

[rico loverde]

wiring up my minisynth, this one is hard. so much wiring in such a tight space. so far i have the 2 vcos and 1/2 the dusg done

[rico loverde]

well i got it wired and tried it out. most of it is working. 1 vco and half of the dusg is not working. this particular dusg has given me hell. half has always worked and the other half hasn't.

I think ill trouble shoot it tomorrow, its gonna be a total nightmare though as its so tightly packed with wires.

[negativspace]

I'm planning to tackle mine piecemeal, 2 VCOs to start and once they're debugged it'll be on to the DUSG and so on. I finally found time in amongst all of my projects to get some rails cut and drilled, so I'm nearly out of excuses.

[ringstone]

Yep, I'll be onto my Mini Synth next too. Put it off until the end as I need to match some transistors and diodes (as well as it being the biggest build of the lot).

Cheers
Blair

[rico loverde]

[negativspace]

Hmm, part of the reason for doing the VCOs first is that I planned to use one power connection for those 2 modules and one for the rest of the panel. You suppose I should isolate them even further than that?

Boards are all fully stuffed, it's just a matter of assembly at this stage. Maybe I should just dive in...

[rico loverde]

One of my vcos isnt working so i cant really say, but if I plug my working vco to my mixer i can hear the dusg in it and vice versa. same with the ring mod.

[rico loverde]

so i got the both vcos, the dusg, both vcas, and ring mod working but shit is acting weird.

for one, my output on the vcos seems really low esp when compared to my euro stuff. and the sine to saw output is even lower than the saw or square outs.

theres really weird signal bleed all over the place. like if i have the saw out on vco 2 patched to my speakers and i touch the saw out jack on vcos 1 i can hear vco 1 even when nothing is patched at all.

my ring mod works but the ics are getting really hot.

on the vcas if i wiggle the output jack for either channel the volume increases dramatically.

none of the boards share grounds between one another and today i rewired the power to one of the power bus boards cgs makes. I'm kinda over it for now, as i have no idea where to begin. little frustrated i must say, as everything looks right.

any thoughts are appreciated

[rico loverde]

soooo, i realized i had made a really dumb mistake. i recently got some new jacks and didn't realize i had wired everything wrong with them. total dumbs hit moment but i swapped everything and everything is working great now except the ring mod. the ring mod won't work, and the ics are still really damn hot. i saw on Kens page that the 0v pad by the unicorn is actually -12 so i wired the ground of another 0v spot. still no go though. still very hot ics. at this point I've probably fried them...

@Negativspace, let me know when you get your ring mod going. id love to compare a few things with you...

the vcos are awesome though!!!!

[negativspace]

Awesome, I'm glad you found the issue! I love it when it turns out to be a total dumbshit thing - usually means it's correspondingly easy to fix.

I'll get the thing started soon, I just finished up the last of the MSU panels I've been commissioned to build. Might be a little while before I get to the ringmod, though, I've planned that one for last.

[Monobass]

great news Rico, I know those sorts of mistakes are always very
but when they solve most problems in one fell swoop it's

one day I'll have time to start my MSU..

[msprigings]

I noticed reading Ken's docs about that the Serge VCF has a LED available. I'm wondering assuming I can drill the hole through Clarke's awesome panel without screwing it up how hard is to implement a big ass Pittsburgh VILFO sized LED on there. I love me some blinking lights. I'd love to implement more LEDs but my knowledge is pretty limited.

[Monobass]

is the led to show clipping of the input? could be very useful.

[rico loverde]

well heres a demo video of the first patch. everything is working but the ringmod. i still need to calibrate the vcos. overall im really pleased.

[bleeps]

That's so awesome. All the builds in this thread are inspiring. Congrats!

[msprigings]

Rico love what I'm hearing kinda makes me wanna do a quad slope....

Monobass:
here's what Ken says about the LED on the doc page:

[rico loverde]

thanks guys!! the quad slope is super fun. i was blown away by how cool it is.

[negativspace]

[msprigings]

Yeah having 2 on my Thomas White LPGs sure would be cool. I wonder how difficult that is.