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fine CV control for Malekko VCA in Exp Mode?
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Author fine CV control for Malekko VCA in Exp Mode?
matttech
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

bodge solution:

take the DC generated by ch. 2 of Maths into the input of ch. 3.

set ch. 3 to about 1-2 o'clock (so that it is heavily attenuating ch. 2's DC signal)

then send the output of ch. 3 into a mixer.

send the ADSR into another channel of the mixer.

you now have fine control over the CV input, and when you sweep over the entire positive half of ch. 2's knob you get a very gradual increase in CV gain into the VCA

fucking messy though........can't see me bothering to do this often

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Jason Brock
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I must say this is the biggest thing about Eurorack that bums me out. Within a system that is made by only one manufacturer, all of these levels and response curves would ideally be calibrated and tailored to match one another and provide the maximum usable range when turning a knob.

I've got a similar situation to yours, and I also have an rs-60 envelope. That envelope rocks because of that built-in attenuverter at the bottom. So handy. But when I use it to drive my Intellijel Azimuth as an output VCA, I get similar results to what you are describing. There is a "sweet spot" when turning up the output level on the rs-60 (about half way up) where it sounds "right" to me, i.e. close to unity gain coming out of the Azimuth and the envelope shape sounds nice. But it is a fine line, because if I bump up the level just a bit I get clipping, and if I turn it down just a bit I can hardly hear any audio coming out. I'm wondering if Intellijel's new uVCA will play nicer with hotter signals, since it uses the SSM chip. I also remember being fairly happy with my Doepfer 132-3, since it seemed to take any sort of envelope signal you could throw at it and it wouldn't clip.
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Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Jason Brock wrote:
I'm wondering if Intellijel's new uVCA will play nicer with hotter signals, since it uses the SSM chip.

The uVCA will allow you to define any response between pure exponential and pure linear, and will give clean 2x unity gain in any mode. Indeed, the uVCA would actually solve Matttech's problem, because it has independent controls for CV and CV Bias as well as Mode. This means that not only could Matttech dial in exactly the range of the CV that he wanted with the CV control, but he could locate the centre of that range anywhere he wanted with the Bias control, and could select the optimum sensitivity to that CV range by dialling in a custom response with the Mode control.

I hear your pain, Jason Brock, and I design all my modules to a specific standard (0 to 5V CV, 0 to 10V envelopes, -5V to +5V VCO and LFO waveforms, and VCAs that will gladly accept any of these three into any input and still give good results without clipping or bottoming out). Not to denigrate other designers, as there are certainly equally good and equally valid alternatives, but sticking to this standard has worked very well for me.

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matttech
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

it'ss a fucking pain isn't it? that malekko would be great apart from this "feature". i'm almost inclined to keep the a132-4 i'm selling, as that is much easier to do controlled distortion with. (i am actually after distortion, rather than a clean sound...but i need to be able to control how much)

i strongly recommend the Oakley CLassic vcas - i have two and they are excellent. you do still need to trim the CV inputs if you're sending hot ADSRs (MFB, RS60) into it....but it's no biggie. it doesn't really distort if you send the cv in too high, but you don't get such an extreme exp curve to it. with rs60 on full, the cv inputs just need to be set to 2'o clock and they're fine.

the a132-4 is pretty cool, as you can trim CV input 1 on each channel of it so that it never clips, but CV input 2 has no trimmer, so you can then use that for distortion, which is fun (doesn't sound much different from the malekko if i'm honest). when set clean, it sounds identical to the CEM 132-3s that i've got

oakleys are the best all-round one for me though. the 2 audio inputs, and 2 CV inputs - one lin, one exp - ....along with the output gain, is a nice feature list too

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WaveRider
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

matttech wrote:
that malekko would be great apart from this "feature".


well I got used to it now, a little fiddly but I can dial pretty much what I want as distortion, and I love it's sound in exp mode. strangely I have a harder time with my envelators with it, but the deopfer adsr work like a charm, with a lower sustain stage I got a distortion peak before the decay, just perfect. I just use a tiny bit of it's crispiness in fact not full on distortion. It clicks a little more than I would like but that maybe unavoidable to a degree in exp mode vcas.

Anyway that vca helped me understand how important they are in the final sound. That makes me want to try lots o them now -and at first I taught that was a pretty much "transparent" module that would not really matter witch I use in terms of sound. I am going nuts over envelopes and vcas now... I wish I could have got the cwjeman vca-adsr and the 4-mx vca... but I may find what I want in the intellijel u modules (waiting for vc-adsr!) or other brands anyway


Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:

The uVCA will allow you to define any response between pure exponential and pure linear, and will give clean 2x unity gain in any mode. .


yeah that is really applause

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flashheart
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Rather than just an attenuator you really need an offset + attenuator - then you can use the offset to get into the range. Essentially what you done with the Maths. Seems poor that the useable range is so small though.

Funny as well that the Doepfer seems to be easier to deal with versus higher end VCAs...
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Jason Brock
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:

The uVCA will allow you to define any response between pure exponential and pure linear, and will give clean 2x unity gain in any mode.


Cool, thanks for the reply. I'm pretty sure I'll be trying one out as soon as they hit the shops.
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matttech
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

flashheart wrote:
Rather than just an attenuator you really need an offset + attenuator - then you can use the offset to get into the range. Essentially what you done with the Maths. Seems poor that the useable range is so small though.

Funny as well that the Doepfer seems to be easier to deal with versus higher end VCAs...


yeah, well i have to heavily reduce the range of the offset knob to give me the precise control that i'm after. otherwise the problem just moves to a different knob

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