Muff's Modules & More

haven

Help my find a synthesizer for percussion synthesis and poly sounds!

My Situation;
Since getting my Cirklon last week I have been enjoying this all hardware workflow. I will of course still use Ableton for a DAW but I want to get the main part of a song done on the Cirklon.

I have been using my Machinedrum UWmk2 as a sound module mostly, sequencing it with the Cirklon. The Cirklon gets over the limitations I didn't like about the MD sequencer but the way Elektron uses MIDI CC and syncs the LFOs means automating a lot of the parameters is more difficult than it should be.
Plus I feel like not using the sequencer of the MD is a bit of a waste of money. I rarely use the UW functions although they are fun.

My existing setup;
The goal is fast, not a lot of time for music. I record jams, then I arrange, then I compose.

I have, Cirklon with CVIO, 5 rows of eurorack modular, S1mk2, Nord Lead 3, some Eventide FX, 16 analogue ins into my computer via 828mk2 (I use it as a mixer). Akai MPD26, DAW is Ableton Live. Oh and the Machinedrum UWmk2

What to replace the MD with? Its got to have at least 4 outs and a great multimode. I was thinking a rack/tabletop synth like a Nord Rack 2. I like the multimode on the Nords and I have had a positive experience with a Nord Lead 2. The way the morph groups work is great with the AuXes of the Cirklon. But I never tried percussion synthesis on it. I was also considering a Virus but have never used one.

Any suggestions?

tuj · Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:00 pm Post subject:

The NL2 does have some cool percussion, but I wouldn't want just that as percussion. Maybe a Nord G2 engine and a Kawai XD-5? The XD-5 is a pain to edit, but has some great drum sounds available in it.

Actually the Vermona might be a good choice for you since you want something immediate. Its got knobs for everything.

confusional · Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:18 pm Post subject:

The NL2x rack is great for percussion. Sure, get that.

But you already have a ton of stuff that's great for such things. Speaking of which, your Cwejman S1MkII called and would like some quality time. Maybe that's the root of the problem... if you had less stuff to choose from — you could work 'faster'?

haven · Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:06 pm Post subject:

thanks for the responses folks,

I had a Kawai XD-5 once. Terrible UI for me. So slow. I was a big Kurzweil geek back in the day but even after years of experience on them I would still consider it too slow for my current situation. I don't want to have to edit with a computer. If I need a computer to use it I would rather use soft synths (a few of which, like Aalto and Kontact I use)

I do have a ton of stuff that is great for percussion, like my modular which I use. The S1mk2 is also a great drum source. Especially little ticky sounds. But I often use my modular and S1mk2 as mono synths and FX while writing. I also want to write fast, and then work on sound design later. This is one of the reasons I love the Nord Lead 3, it is very very fast to make a patch. I find dialing percussion sounds on the modular time consuming when I would rather be writing music.

I love the S1mk2! but it keeps getting used as a mono synth doing leads and basses when I am in jamming mode because it is so easy to dial in.

I think my perspective might change after a few weeks with the Cirklon once I get a CVIO panel so I can control the modular.

Re- vermona - I looked at this but I was sad to see very limited CV or MIDI control over the drum sounds. Only responds to velocity via MIDI by the looks of it. I want to dynamically change my percussion via CV or MIDI.

CJ Miller · Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:13 pm Post subject:

The XD-5 is terrible and slow? Slower than having a knob for everything, but I find it is a breeze to edit.

What, Haven, are the sequencing limitations you speak of?

First answer to your question which sprung to mind: Rack Attack!

krv · Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:31 pm Post subject:

..not sure if it's your cup of tea but you'd give this a look:

http://www.norddrum.com/

haven · Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:24 pm Post subject:

I was in a bad spot mentally when I had the XD-5 I admit. But one slider for data entry is not my style these days. I like lots of sliders or knobs. If I were to go back to the poke and peek style of data entry I would get a Kurzweil K2XXX rack since I am familiar with them.

The Nord Drum makes me sad - why only one output? Do they have a problem with live sound engineers?

revtor · Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:35 pm Post subject:

If you like the Nord, go for the Nord. It will make tons of percussion sounds...

confusional · Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:44 pm Post subject:

jessem · Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:12 pm Post subject:

If you have an NL3 and a S1mk2 I don't see what extra depth the NL2 will give you.

To throw a curve ball in there. In addition to whatever you end up getting what about something from the Yamaha TX series to give you some multi-timbral FM goodness? Of course you have the NL3 but these are cheap and versatile enough to consider.

confusional · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:11 am Post subject:

mjsemtex · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:52 am Post subject:

fac · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:17 am Post subject:

My opinion is: if you like the sounds you're getting from the MD, then don't sell it. Who cares if you're not using its sequencer? You won't be able to replace its synthesis functionality with anything else.

The Nord 2X is IMO ok for percussions, but not great. And it only does 8 simultaneous sounds, while the MD does 16. And it cannot sample.

You say you don't use the UW part of the MD much, but why not take one afternoon to choose and upload your favorite drum samples, and just use the sample playback machines, as you would use the E12 machines?

Just out of curiosity, what limitations does the MD sequencer have that the Cirklon doesn't?

haven · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:32 pm Post subject:

are there different firmware versions of the XD-5 that mess it up when editing via sysex? The one I had did not get along with SoundDiver at all. Then I sold it to a guy who didn't brush his teeth for $80 sad banana

Machinedrum sequencer vs Cirklon

Machinedrum sequencer does not support velocity (although the MD does respond to it via MIDI in). All you can do is program in the level out per step with p-locks. Cirklon has velocity as well as a quick way to enter it per step if you enter them via the step keys (knob A value sets the velocity of the step) or you can record in via MIDI controllers. I like to use the Akai MPD beat repeat mode.

Machinedrum sequence has one grid for all parts and max of 4 bars. Times are 16, 16t, 32, 32t. So if I wanted to put in 64th note flam I would have to use a ROM machine and the sample repeat to fake it. The Cirklon has a continuously variable grid (that does not change the music) when using a ck pattern so you can just zoom in time wise, enter the little 32 or 64th notes and zoom back out to 16th or 8th etc..

Cirklon keeps its values if a step is muted, My Machinedrum erases the P-locks on the step if it is turned off.

P3 patterns in the Cirklon while not doing multi row sequencing like the CK patterns do some very complex things to time and can have generated repeats or sequenced time base changes for example.

They are different sequencers with different work flows. I am enjoying the Machinedrum a lot more now that I have a deeper sequencer to control it with.

fac · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:57 pm Post subject:

I see. The Cirklon looks real interesting and I may have to look more into it.

If you're enjoying the MD, keep it. Sure, it has its shortcomings, but swapping it for another synth will just change those shortcomings for some other ones.

haven · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:06 pm Post subject:

krz · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:05 pm Post subject:

[quote="haven"]I had a Kawai XD-5 once. Terrible UI for me. So slow. I was a big Kurzweil geek back in the day[/quote]

Someone gave me an xd-5 that worked until recently.

I was gonna say- even some of the ipad/iPhone apps
are faster than anything- even a handful of years old.
I can whip up a noisefest on the iPhone in seconds BUT
they all still CRASH. K2k? Not so much.