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Granular euro - godsend, or largely pointless?
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Author Granular euro - godsend, or largely pointless?
tomerbe
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

if i have time i'll put together some sort of granular patch this weekend. though i'll be "cheating" as i'll be using my es3 & PD to provide the grain envelopes and CVs with random deviation. i only have enough modules to do 2 or 3 grains at once (3vcas, 3 vcos), but enough to be somewhat interesting....
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amalthea
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Drumdrumdrumdrum wrote:
phase ghost wrote:
I'd say largely pointless. However, cv into the computer (via Silent Way) to control parameters of a granular synth plugin would be cool.


Well, this is getting OT Euro, but what good Granulators are being used? Really smooth ones that are Hi Hi Fi? I only know of the Granular EFX in Omnisphere that is really good. All the freeware ones like Granulator, just don't sound as Hi Fi to me on the demos.


I used to use the Martin Brinkmann's reaktor ensemble Grainstates all the time, and it's quite good. Another good is White Grains, although it's harder to control. I've also just started using Camel Audio's Alchemy synth for granular stuff, and it is amazing. Really high quality, and gives you much more control than the granular function in Omnisphere (as well as the all-important ability to use your own audio material).

-Andreas
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Drumdrumdrumdrum
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Why have I not heard about Alchemy before now? That is one slick VST! Im particularly interested in using this for resynthesis. They seem like a fun bunch of geek programers too.
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thaneco
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Reaktor is an amazing program with endless possibilities. Using both modular and reaktor is the best way for me (like for example passing the audio out from my modular to reaktor's granular effects). But I have to agree that watching a computer screen is a little tiresome lolspew
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Drumdrumdrumdrum
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Not to dis Reactor, but it always sounds like Reactor....if you know what I mean? Im starting to feel the same about Omnisphere too. Can pick it from a mile away on a movie soundtrack or nature doco.

I agree that a balance between VSTs and modular is the key. But balancing can be very tricky.

If some of these companies like Livid could get some real hands on interfacing between modular and VST then................

MY ASS IS BLEEDING

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Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

So, I'm a bit of a noob with this granular stuff. Is it basically just switching little snippets of sound in and out really quickly? For example, say that you've got two sources of audio (say, Bach's "Mass in B Minor" on Channel 1 and the Sex Pistols' "God Save the Queen" on Channel 2) going into a crossfader (like, say, the Intellijel uFade -- TM 2011, All Rights Reserved) which is being controlled by a pulse wave at 1 to 100 Hz. Now, let's say you modulate the pulse width and frequency of the pulse wave. Would this essentially be granular synthesis?
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tomerbe
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

you are somewhat there.

granular synthesisis a pretty open idea, but usually implies randomization of parameters for each grain, possibility of randomization of grain size and start time. and a variability of grain density, so that you might have 0 to say 32 grains (no real top limit) playing at the same time.

check barry truax's riverrun for an early example



here's a simple granular csound sampling piece i did a while back

[s]http://soundcloud.com/tomerbe/i-can-hear-my-heart-singing[/s]


Last edited by tomerbe on Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mark Landman
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
So, I'm a bit of a noob with this granular stuff.

Here's the place to start, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granular_synthesis

Typically it involves sample granulation, but some fantastic soundscapes can come from using simple single cycle waveforms too. This by nature calls for digital implementation, an analog version w/ sufficient grains seems unlikely.
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Johnisfaster
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

How could it possibly be pointless? I put modular samples into software granular apps all the time and it sounds bitchin. To be able to do it on the modular with CV control would be amazing.

A simple sine sample can get really crazy, it doesnt have to be a complex audio source to get really complex results.

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amalthea
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Drumdrumdrumdrum wrote:
Why have I not heard about Alchemy before now? That is one slick VST! Im particularly interested in using this for resynthesis. They seem like a fun bunch of geek programers too.


Then there's also of course Steinberg's upcoming Padshop, which looks like it has a ton of control and functionality, but unfortunately (as far as I can tell) no way to use your own audio samples (yet?).


http://createdigitalmusic.com/2012/02/steinberg-padshop-coming-soon-gr anular-synthesis-for-the-rest-of-us-handy-intro-video-explains/
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mrcharles
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I've been exploring granular synthesis software for almost a year now... in addition to the Reaktor ensembles, here are a couple of applications that I recommend.

In particular, Density ( http://www.densitygs.com/ ). This comes as a standalone application or in Max4Live versions. It is a very powerful application that can morph between different "snapshots" of grain parameters, has built in reverb, compression, and a multi-band filter equalizer.

Audiomulch ( http://www.audiomulch.com/ ) has a number of granular synthesis tools in its library of contraptions.

I'm new to the modular world (trying to figure out just what my first configuration will be...), but I wonder just how analog a modular granular synth could be... it would have to handle an awful lot of data.

When you combine granular audio and video... well, it is out of this world... see:

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tomerbe
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

here's my attempt to do granular synth on my modular - this is fairly minimal, just two vcos through two vcas. think i'll try to expand on this....

grain envelopes and pitches are generated by PD and sent through the ES-3

https://vimeo.com/37874001
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ianross
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
So, I'm a bit of a noob with this granular stuff. Is it basically just switching little snippets of sound in and out really quickly? For example, say that you've got two sources of audio (say, Bach's "Mass in B Minor" on Channel 1 and the Sex Pistols' "God Save the Queen" on Channel 2) going into a crossfader (like, say, the Intellijel uFade -- TM 2011, All Rights Reserved) which is being controlled by a pulse wave at 1 to 100 Hz. Now, let's say you modulate the pulse width and frequency of the pulse wave. Would this essentially be granular synthesis?


If that's what granular synthesis is then your new mixer is basically a granular synthesizer. : )
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Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

ianross wrote:
If that's what granular synthesis is then your new mixer is basically a granular synthesizer. : )

Yes, I guess it is! What I'm curious about is if two (or more) recognizable audio sources are sequenced rapidly, are they still recognizable? Does it sound like two audio sources playing at the same time, or something else entirely? I guess we'll be able to do this kind of experiment with the Mutamix.

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radiodread87
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

could you also do this with the Ufade? as in have two sound sources play into it and switch between them at audio rates?
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