Muff's Modules & More

[chrisso]

[chrisso]

[Dr. Sketch-n-Etch]

[chrisso]

I use we-send-it*, which I assume is not under threat from recent takedown activity.

* exclusively for delivering my own created work.

[de_raaf]

i haven't read the whole thread, but to me the industry and media or more quite to blame why people want stuff legal or non legal, why because we are all getting pushed to get all the new stuff, this new band, that aka consume, so when you can get stuff for free, it become kind of what they want, except moneywise people are getting smarter, and use their money for stuff the can't download or find for not much, like other luxe products the newest cellphone, or whatever, or modular crack they need to keep up with. music is a social form and even without a lot of money a lot of people still want to hear what's around of music in the world, hear the stuff that gets pushed, or what the can research themselves. . its more that the music industry made a trap for themselves unknowingly through the power of internet, even when Internet is controlled, i don't think the will sell a massive load of more records, but i do think more people are able to get exposed to different music
late night ramble

[chrisso]

[de_raaf]

also i feel music has a big social( for yourself or more group or peer like) function that way its stolen or download without much care in a bigger way because of that need, than for instance you can get free cellphones or something i think (you probably don't need 50 of them), its a very in the greyzone, for a lot people music is the strength that keep them going in this world, yet we are consumer minded and very curious creatures, so i guess music has a weird relationship when its comes down for being a product in our economical system , vs the share how mechanical that also is i feel it kind reflects to a more need of sharing stuff with other people, no matter how cold it comes over in this time of all sitting behind that computer that we can't live without in this time and age, yet its able to connect with the whole world if you want. i guess it kind of shows we want to reconnect with others, that why music is hard to place in the whole thing, you can't really see it as a commercial product alone, yet musicians deserve an income, yet its about sharing experiences, stories or visions through the music, making human contact through soundwavs

[Waz]

Ok...I'll jump into the lions pit.

I honestly think the record companies and film companies are grasping at straws here. Their old model, which doesn't work anymore, has made them billions. With this money, they're trying to force the country back into the old model through legislation. I can tell you right now. No matter how many laws are in place, or imaginary boundaries are raised, I can pirate your album without any consequence (moral excluded). Don't worry, I'm not that kind of person. These laws ARE NOT hurting pirates. If you think they can stop pirates, you simply don't understand how the internet works.

Another point...
This is a global issue;
Where I live, pirating is encouraged. I walked into a brick and mortar store the other day that sold downloaded movies burnt to disc. You can get any movie (including movies that came out last week). 4 for 10,000 won. And Korean people simply don't care. It's about availability and nothing else. They can buy the imported American movie for 35,000 won or they can download it for free. If it were offered in a more convenient way, people would purchase it.

The only way to make a dent in this issue is to completely 100% censor the internet. And we all know what happens when a medium is censored. Think about the early days of radio and the institution of the FCC. Do you really want something like that for the internet? Next thing you know, all the swear words will be filtered out of our internet, and this forum will only be available in Asia...

*edit/ disclaimer
My avatar and overall pirate theme reflects the rum slurping, "YARRR!" hollering kind of pirates. It's just a coincidence.

[samuraipizzacat29]

I'm resurrecting this because i "just" found out megaupload etc had been taken down. at first I thought "yeah but that will never work because they'll have to prove mega EXPLICITLY KNEW the files they were hosting were copyright, and that they PURPOSELY made it so people could access them". I view(ed) all these attacks as attacks on personal rights to freedom, and as a rather sever protection for copyright holders (more on that later).

......but.....then....... I read the endictment. Holy crap - these guys purposely and completely tried to steal money from the copyright holders of films. They explained to users how to upload illegal content. They paid people for ads ran on their illegal movies. They only allowed copyright holders the ability to take down a set # of videos per day, knowing full well users would be able to upload faster than studios could take stuff down. It's all in the indictment.

and that ain't right.

To me, copyright holders shouldn't be granted any more rights than the rest of us have. It's my responsibility to lock the doors of my home at night. My responsibility to call the police when I've been robbed, and prove that the material taken was mine. Copyright holders have to defend their brand/product, else they have to pay to have their product defended. I pay taxes for the police to enforce the law. I do not pay taxes so that your song (or mine) doesn't get ripped off. I don't pay taxes to protect my store inventory. The government doesn't do that.

-and - A popular song, video, etc is still worth money. People act like there's no way to make money anymore. sell t-shirts. do appearances. sell singles on itunes. heck, nearly everyone I know that wants a song buys it on itunes because they don't know how else to get it on to their i-doohicky. HOST YOUR OWN STINKING WEBSITE AND SELL MUSIC FROM IT!!!!! put a "donate here" button on your site. why does it seem so easy and yet people continuously rant and rave about how difficult it is to live off of intellectual property.

.....and that brings me to my final point. in no other era has it ever been viewed as a legitimate vocation to be an artist or musician. you know "starving artist" or other cliches? that's because people have never wanted to pay for intellectual works. The vast majority of contemporary artists only found favor after they died (this we know). why is it that all of the sudden, post y2k, people feel entitled to things? if you make something that people don't like, or don't want to pay for (and so don't) then you shouldn't be able to force them into paying for it. how many movies do you leave saying "i wish I wouldn't have paid for that"? I know I do.

anyway - if you make it, and you own it, then you should have control over who gets paid for it. The government should enforce the law only after proven theft has occurred. That shouldn't change for one industry verses another.

edit: I'm done ranting now - I just needed to find a place where intelligent people that actually cared about this gathered. do yourself a favor though and arm yourself with information before fashioning your opinion. my opinion always changes with the more facts I read.

[Rymf]

Hey, it's this thread.

At this point, my impression is that Kim Dotcom is an absolute cock, but he might just be the right cock for our times.

I'm pleased that there will be a villain on TV at night asking why he bears the full brunt of the law, while individuals in other industries who, during the same timeframe, made comparably legally dubious decisions with much more severe economic (Morgan Stanley, Bear Stearns, Fannie/Freddie) and environmental (BP) consequences suffered merely the proverbial slap on the wrist.

[Waz]

I actually *GASP* used his site for legitimate purposes. Never once used it for piracy.

[chrisso]

[samuraipizzacat29]

I've rewrote this response a couple times, but I can't make you understand something you don't want to understand. I used to spend $30 a week on cds, and have no clue what I was buying when I left the store. now I spend $10 a month on spotify, and consume what I want, when I want, at an alarming pace. if you'll notice, I'm a high demand consumer, and that's a 90% decrease. 90%! $100 a month! and i'm not doing anything wrong........

It just doesn't work like it used to. yeah, people burning cds and selling them on street corners is a rip. But your new album can be out, converted to mp3, and hosted in 1000 locations in 24 hours. and all I have to do is a google advanced search to find it. Nowadays, you have to make a really fantastic product to get it noticed (because the attention span is so narrow) AND you have to capitalize on it with ads, marketing, residual products, performances, sponsors, etc. and you have to have it distributed in every imaginable location to get return.

anyway - artists aren't the same as other vocations in the sense that if I go into a store and buy something, I own it and can do whatever i want with it. If I pay someone to clean my house (or put an addition on it), I pay them only after the job has completed satisfactorily. Every successful retail store of which I know has a solid return policy if you're not satisfied. Artists are a service based industry. previously they could force you to pay before you knew if you were interested, but it just doesn't work that way anymore. When I go out, I legitimately own the food I buy. If I don't like it, I won't come back. if no one likes it the restaurant fails. it's the same, but different. You just expect people to be forced to pay for something they may not like. They're not going to buy it twice, you can bet that.

I'm genuinely sorry people steal stuff. If they stole my stuff, I would of course be ticked. Alternatively, I don't know if I should be remorseful that artists are no longer compensated bar none for their work. BUT - people will still pay for your product if they genuinely like it. You will get paid. The market is just so overwhelmed and glutted and every artists wants a piece. I have access to a multi-tracker on my cell phone. There's a score of apps on my ipad. My laptop is chock full of free vsts. a quality interface is $200. A guitar pack is under $200. Craigslist connects you to cheap gear 24/7. You mean to tell me the music market isn't more glutted than at any time in history? It's the product of instant accessibility by both creators and consumers. so your work has to be literally one in a million, and has to have incredible market penetration to go anywhere if we're talking about big profit dollars. (see: the white stripes and more recently the black keys. Thankfully the white stripes got out before sell-out)

[Dr. Sketch-n-Etch]

I'm with you (I think) samuraipizzacat29. When I was younger I spent virtually every penny of my disposable income on albums (yeah, that's how fucking old I am, I still call them albums) and, of course, junk food, but I digress...

The point is, when I used to buy records in good old record stores, it was fun. And boy, did I buy records, hundreds and hundreds of them, new and used. There was a real sense of adventure and discovery.

And like every other kid I knew, I had a big fuckin' stereo with big fuckin' speakers, and I played it way too fuckin' loud for my parents.

And I went to concerts. I saw artists like Jean Luc-Ponty, Jethro Tull, and Pat Metheny for about $10. It was awesome!

And then, along came the CD, and records were no longer the thing to buy. And I've got hundreds of those, too. But, they just aren't as much fun somehow. The cases are too small and break too easily, the little booklets are lame...

And then, the stores that sell CDs started to fill up with DVDs, and the next thing you know, the CDs were consigned to the basement, and the selection started to dwindle. The jazz and classical sections started shrinking, the rock and pop sections were dominated by worthless pap, American Idol rejects stared at me from the walls. I stopped visiting CD stores.

And then concerts started costing $50 minimum, $75 for decent seats. One of my kids was invited to go to a concert with a friend the other day, and the tickets were $150! (She decided she didn't care about it enough to pony up the dough, bless her.)

At some point, I sorta just stopped buying music. There was a period of about five years where I might have bought one CD every two months. And then every three. And it wasn't like I was downloading lots of stuff. I basically just lost interest. Music all started sounding more or less the same to me.

When I was a kid, everybody talked about music. It was a passion for most of us. Now, outside of Muffs, I know very few people who care about music at all.

Kids don't have stereos anymore. When was the last time you saw a kid with an actual stereo with bigass speakers, as opposed to an iPod with the ubiquitous fuckin' earbuds hanging off their head? We used to sit around the stereo and zone out with a pile of record covers on the floor. Music isn't something people share now. It's just background noise.

I think the music industry killed music. They sapped it of everything that made it vital, and converted it to just another commodity. Kids today don't really care about it, either. They don't talk about it they way we did. They don't obsess about it (and what's to obsess about?). I never hear kids at the uni discussing the latest bands or whatever. It's like music doesn't even exist anymore.

So, yeah, I have very little sympathy for the music industry. They took a good thing and killed it with unbridled greed. Fuck 'em, I say.

[samuraipizzacat29]

[chrisso]

[chrisso]

[chrisso]

[Dr. Sketch-n-Etch]

[chrisso]