Muff's Modules & More

frijitz · Last edited by frijitz on Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

As I came up with my previous chaos circuits/modules there were quite a few requests for more CV inputs. My latest design, called Chaotica, was developed to answer those requests. At first I didn't think voltage control would be all that that interesting, but since experimenting with the new unit I've completely changed my mind. There are all kinds of interesting pattern variations and unusual multiphonic audio signals made possible by the various modulation inputs. And audio-rate modulation is now looking very interesting -- imagine, if you can, a kind of chaotic ring modulation.

I have a web page up that has most of my results up.
http://home.comcast.net/~ijfritz/Chaos/ch_cir6_chaotica.htm
As of right now, Elby is planning on releasing a version in Euro format. I haven't gotten any interest from anyone as far as making a 5U format version. If nothing develops I may design a board for 5U myself, aimed mainly at the DIY community. Maybe someone would come up with a nice panel design, which would make a reasonably easy DIY project.

Stay tuned!

grin

Ian

decaying.sine · Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:55 pm Post subject:

Does anyone have a chaotica up and running now besides Ian and Andrew?

The samples are lovely.

I'd love to buy a PCB for this. I started poking around with the schematics and was going to breadboard it (which I have almost no experience with) but then I decided to put it in my Eagle practice pile to make for home etching. Unfortunately, that's a large pile!

Laurie will probably offer just the PCB as well, right--in addition to the full module?

falafelbiels · Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:22 pm Post subject:

DIY in 5U? Could you possibly make that 4U?

thermionicjunky · Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:17 pm Post subject:

I'd go for a PCB with MOTM power.

Hi5 · Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:32 pm Post subject:

I'd be down for a PCB especially one that would still fit in Euro.

revmutt · Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:58 pm Post subject:

Another cool design ian and I'm happy to hear elby is doing it. A double happy dance is due

dan_k · Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 2:03 am Post subject:

Congrats Ian!

This thing is insane, the video really showcases it well.

Added to my wish list when it's available from Elby.

mono-poly · Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 2:19 am Post subject:

Looking forward to it!
Love my Chaquo and TGTSH's!

Adam-V · Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 3:44 am Post subject:

Great stuff Ian. If you go down the DIY PCB route and are able to squeeze the boards into a frac friendly size that'd be just grand.

Cheers,
Adam-V

RichardC · Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:26 am Post subject:

Very cool!! I'd love this in MU.

Rod Serling Fan Club · Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:18 am Post subject:

I', sure would pick up a PCB.

fluxmonkey · Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 3:31 pm Post subject:

physically, most 3u designs can be made to work in either euro or frac. Ian, are the any component values that need to change for 12 vs 15 v?

b

mono-poly · Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 3:37 pm Post subject:

And i sure would pick up an Elby module.

thetwlo · Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 3:45 pm Post subject:

very nice!!!

Mongo1 · Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:50 pm Post subject:

Well, a few weeks ago Ian was kind enough to send me a prototype board of the Chaotica. I finally got it finished last night, and holy smokes what a wild gadget it is...

I've been fooling around with it all morning, and thought I'd shoot a video of it running. It's almost impossible to say "This is what Chaotica does", because changing any knob drastically changes everything.

In this patch I have my CGS VCO and my Teezer being driven by the "X" output. That Voltage is being processed by a Yusynth S&H, which is clocked by one half of a CGS DUSG. That DUSG is operating as a VCO, with the VC coming from the "Z" output of the Chaotica. "Y" is controlling the FC of my Yusynth VCO. Note that in this patch I don't have any of the CV inputs on Chaotica used. In earlier experiments I found that controlling the "Rate" with an LFO can produce some very pleasing results.

I had been considering building a wogglebug, but I don't think I will now. Taming chaotica may be a full-time project.

Note that there are some times in the video when my oscillators are either ultrasonic or subsonic, so be patient....

nanners

Another great job Ian! applause

Gary

PS - I guess I really need to order some knobs one of these days meh

frijitz · Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:11 pm Post subject:

Last I heard from Elby he was waiting for boards to come in. I'm pretty sure he'll sell any combination of boards/panels/kits you want, in addition to finished modules.

The proto boards I had made are 5.3" x 4.5", with all I/O pads brought to one edge. They are the Advanced Circuits bare-bones specials, ie no silk, no mask.The I/O pins are labeled in the Cu layer, though, so it's easy to wire up. I made a nice easy-to-use stuffing diagram and also a panel wiring pictoral diagram.

Please let me know privately if you are interested in one (US only).

Ian

Mongo1 · Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:01 pm Post subject:

A lot of the patches I've seen for chaos circuits show just how chaotic they can be - but I wanted to see if I could actually put one to good use as part of a composition.

Here's a patch I did this evening using the Chaotica. The module is controlling several aspects of the synth. One of the most evident affects is the non-linear pitch changes as the 'planes' dive and climb. You can also hear a variation in speed as the 'rate' gets modulated by a slow LFO. The result was a pretty neat 'swirl' that happen form time to time.

Anyway - here it is... Hope you enjoy it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4OfBtVRjrA

Gary

dan_k · Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:21 am Post subject:

Thanks for posting these. Nice to see some more examples.

thermionicjunky · Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:59 pm Post subject:

I just finished my Chaotica. I've been using it for a minute and I already love it. I'll post some music and a picture later today. Chaos is going to be a large part of my doctoral project in composition, so I'm thrilled to have this in my system. Thanks Ian!

Mongo1 · Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 4:42 pm Post subject:

I can't seem to keep my patch cords away from chaotica now. It seems to worm its way into everything. My favorite technique is to hook a low speed triangle lfo to the rate cv, and the use that to modulate pitch of a vco. That produces some really wonderful variations on an otherwise humdrum patch.
Gary

fluxmonkey · Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:01 pm Post subject:

Ian: any updates on possible availability of PCBs from either yourself or Laurie? i've got a complete collection so far...

frijitz · Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:43 pm Post subject:

thermionicjunky · Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:35 pm Post subject:

This isn't quite a demo, but recently Madcap Labs and I recorded a long improvisation using Chaotica and the TGTS&H as the primary sources of CV. I chopped up the stereo mix and layered the sections to create this.

Edit:removed

Orbless · Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:58 pm Post subject:

frijitz · Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:35 pm Post subject:

thermionicjunky · Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:40 am Post subject:

Thanks for the response! While arranging this piece, I discovered how much I enjoy hearing multiple simultaneous time scales of chaotic oscillation. I'm going to explore this further by recording the outputs with my two Modcan CV Recorders.

mecanikill · Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:57 pm Post subject:

Awesome module I would be down for a MU version in a heartbeat!

frijitz · Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:01 pm Post subject:

mecanikill · Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:01 pm Post subject:

bwhittington · Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:10 pm Post subject:

Madcap Labs · Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:36 pm Post subject:

Thanks for posting this! The Chaotica seems like a bottomless source of awesome - I'm very much looking forward to having the Euro module in my system, and (eventually) to understanding a little bit about how it works :-)

thermionicjunky · Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:52 pm Post subject:

This is more like a demo. The outputs were recorded to two Modcan CV Recorders. The recorders controlled delay time, regeneration and mix of the Modcan Digital Delay as well as rate, damping and gain of Chaotica, which determined pitch, timing and pan position. The rest of the patch consisted of a cross-modulated Buchla 258 clone, a Makenoise Optomix and a Buchla 207-based panning mixer.

Edit: removed

Madcap Labs · Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:20 pm Post subject:

Lovely demo, Thermionic. If I didn't already want one, I sure would now.

Mongo1 · Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 4:06 pm Post subject:

So - here's a demo of my chaotica with the rate cranked up into the audio range. X and Y are used as audio outputs. I've got a couple of triangle LFOs driving rate and gain, and Z is being processed with a DUSG to create an envelope. Most of the video is 'single eye' and the 'wild' switch is off most of the time. And of course there's a big old delay on the output. This whole demo is musically useless, but there are some pretty crazy things going on here. You can occasionally here sounds like dogs, pigs, and ducks, and of course some whales swim by from time to time....

http://youtu.be/4QXd1MVHK7E

Gary

thermionicjunky · Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 9:21 pm Post subject:

Thanks for reminding me to explore the audio range. I've barely touched it. I'll see what I can come up with.

thetwlo · Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 9:52 pm Post subject:

ok, so how do all these differ?
Chaotica, Jerkster, double well, and the SnazzyFX Dreamboat?
Are any similar? what's in common?
I have and love the ChaQuo and Dreamboat.
thanks!
I don't think I need all but what overlap and important differences are there?

frijitz · Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:58 pm Post subject:

thetwlo · Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 11:13 pm Post subject:

Thanks Ian!
So is the double well completely different from the Jerkster?
thanks!

numan7 · Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 12:09 am Post subject:

thetwlo · Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 12:47 am Post subject:

I'm just hoping the dreamboat isn't ripped from Ian's work, I kinda felt that vibe before. The only thing to dislike about the ChaQuo is the size, and sounds like it should've been built with 10 turn pots.(yes?)
Was about to build a Jerkster, but think I'll wait for the Chaotica. I wouldn't care but out of space.

andrewF · Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 2:25 am Post subject:

I doubt the Dreamboat is copied off Ian. Before it came out I sent Dan (of Snazzy FX) dozens of chaos circuits pulled from academic databases and he built and tested a lot of them. I would expect the dreamboat is some sort of mix from the circuits Dan experimented with. Judging by the number of emails & messages he sent me when he was working on chaos circuits he worked very hard to develop his own module. There was no need for him to copy Ian and he doesn't seem like the kind of guy to do that.

There are hundreds, if not thousands of other chaos circuits out there, many can be modded to use in synths and can be a lot of fun or at least interesting.
IMHO Ian's circuits are simply the best chaos modules for synth use as they were designed from scratch up for that purpose and Ian knows what he is doing.

btw i have built the Jerkster, two simple chaos modules (early CHAQUO) and the Chaotica. Most of my gigs end up with me sitting down and tweaking the Jerkster, that thing is capable of producing the most sublime voltages ever eek!

thetwlo · Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 2:31 am Post subject:

thanks Andrew!
that helps quite a bit! The Dreamboat is nice--and very compact! But I think I need to build a Jerkster or wait for Chaotica. To me the Jerkster looked more interesting...
thanks!

andrewF · Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 2:35 am Post subject:

no worries
ooh! build the Jerkster! thumbs up

Mongo1 · Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:01 am Post subject:

thermionicjunky · Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:38 am Post subject:

andrewF · Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 10:46 am Post subject:

[quote="Mongo1"]

daverj · Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 11:23 am Post subject:

That looks like an electron microscope photo of a duck billed platypus mite. hihi

russma · Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 11:32 am Post subject:

Indeed. Awesome visualization.

Is anyone working on a 5U/MU version of Chaotica?

frijitz · Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 11:33 am Post subject:

frijitz · Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 12:15 pm Post subject:

Chua's circuit was the first significant circuit implementation of dynamic chaos. It's a classic prototype, and has been studied extensively. It's main drawbacks are that it uses an inductor, and that it is virtually impossible to tune in frequency.

My circuits are based on the ideas of JC Sprott, who showed how to implement chaos in inductorless circuits using opamp integrators and simple semiconductor nonlinearities. It is quite easy to add voltage control to this kind of circuit, basically using circuit block akin to those in VCFs and VCAs. Details are in the chaos section of my website.

Ian

frijitz · Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 12:58 pm Post subject:

frijitz · Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 1:11 pm Post subject:

bouzoukijoe1 · Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:46 pm Post subject:

I'm really fascinated by the Chaotica and want to get one, but baffled by how it works. is it sort of the equivalent of a three dimensional control where the third dimension is a vector instead of a scalar value?

I'm trying to figure out if the main use I might have for a Chaotica (apart from audio generation) is maybe simultaneous low frequency control of a set of three parameters to create a sound, instead of fiddling with one knob at a time, or two at a time in the case of a joystick.

I'm drastically simplifying, but is it somewhat like a autonomous three-dimensional joystick with a touch of random?

any reading links would be appreciated. sorry, I'm not very scientifically/mathematically inclined.

Mongo1 · Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:53 pm Post subject:

There's a great book called "Chaos" by James Gleick - It's a must-read IMO

Gary

bouzoukijoe1 · Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:07 pm Post subject:

thanks Mongo1. do you know if the book explains what third-order chaos is? I'm still tying to wrap my head around even Double Well as it relates to synthesis but all the text I've been finding is too general and I don't see how fits in synthesis yet.

and to be honest, those phase plane plots are neat but confuse me about how to musically use a chaos circuit.

frijitz · Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:06 pm Post subject:

bouzoukijoe1 · Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:01 pm Post subject:

yes definitely, but I'm a little confused by the phase plots. I can only understand things linearly in terms of x/y sort of values. how does the circular stuff translate rhythmically if you have to sync to 4/4 music for instance? sorry if I'm a little dense.

also the two eye plots, still not sure how that converts to standard parameters like pitch etc.

andrewF · Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:52 pm Post subject:

Most 'scope images for chaotic circuits compare 2 outputs to obtain the classic images - butterfly wings, multiple wells, etc. It looks good but doesn't really tell you what the individual outputs are doing.

If it helps this vid shows a Jerk circuit, you can see the three outputs (channels 1-3) respond to a variety of input signals from a LFO (channel 4) and a bit of knob-tweaking. This circuit is very crude compared to Ian's elegant designs but is still quite useful as a CV source.

thetwlo · Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:57 pm Post subject:

loving the Chaotica! had to give up the Chaquo. At first was disappointed, 10 mins later, love it! still miss the chaQuo a bit, but don't have room for both.
For me it's an essential module.

bouzoukijoe1 · Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:00 pm Post subject:

I think I'm just going to re-read it a few more times and maybe it will just sink in eventually.

oops, posted this on an old tab before seeing andrewF's post. thanks that's awesome. I think it's a little easier to make sense of the patterns that way. I think the Chaotica is just a more powerful version of the Jerk right?

frijitz · Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:30 pm Post subject:

Mongo1 · Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:17 pm Post subject:

One thing I would chip in with -
It's good to understand what's going on, but don't overthink it.

A typical LFO is very easy to understand, and you can really sit down with it and make a plan of how to use it.

With Chaotica, I find that its a much more interactive process. I always start out with some sort of a plan, but often find that I end up doing a lot of random exploration with it. That makes sense, because the LFO maps easily into a nice two-dimensional graph. Chaotica throws in a another dimension as well as chaotic behavior. It's harder to get your head around.

Don't worry though - even if it IS a little harder to predict what you're going to get, it's usually an enjoyable ride.

As far as how to use it. I typically will take a couple of the outputs to different VCOs and do slight linear modulation with them. That can give you some really interesting tension on drones. As Ian says, if you take another output to the CV of a filter, or control a wavefolder with them, you can influence pitch and timbre at the same time.

To synch Chaotica with other devices you can easily push a trigger signal into the reset input. That will push all 3 outputs back to a known 0 point. If you do that you can use Chaotica as a weird envelope generator.

Anyway, just try it, and enjoy the exploration.

Gary

cornutt · Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:09 am Post subject:

Did there wind up being enough interest for a 5U version?

bouzoukijoe1 · Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:17 am Post subject:

ahhhhh thanks Ian. ok, I think the quadrature reference helps. and that makes me think if I had a scope set up to compare Chaotica with simpler waveforms it would give me a better idea. that is, comparing a simpler pattern with a chaotic pattern would actually teach me how to read and understand the chaotic pattern easier.

I think I just have to get it and play with it, as far as Gary's point. I don't want to overthink definitely since I'm not that kind of user anyway. I just need a general sense of what it does and the rest will just be intuitive wiggling.

I'm also curious if this can be used as a one-shot kind of generator, sort of like an envelope instead of cyclic. that could be much easier to use and control in a conventional music context.

I really want one. I hear it's one of the deepest modules to explore with.

frijitz · Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:23 am Post subject:

thermionicjunky · Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:34 am Post subject:

thermionicjunky · Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:41 am Post subject:

bouzoukijoe1 · Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:09 pm Post subject: