Muff's Modules & More

[chamomileshark]

hi, I've had some problems with using vocoders in the past, both with speech and singing - I've seen the suggestion to use a compressor.

I got a cheap presonus one (thinking it is also useful when I do the traditional birthday and valentines day songs for the wife). I then read that will need a pre-mic if used with a mic - so I got the Pretube.

ok - just checking now - I have a Roland SVC 350 - I assume I now use the "guitar" input now instead of the Mic input on the vocoder when using the pre-mic and compressor?

[ndkent]

Well the overall dilemma is that real analog vocoders are pretty imperfect from the get go.

So the issue as I see it is how far are you from an optimum signal and is your vocoder capable of getting you what you want out of it.

You may have a weak signal issue which the mic pre and compressr would take care of. You may have a carrier signal that just doesn't have that many frequencies to vocode. Your vocoder might just not be accurate an effect enough for you.

After all many of the classic examples of vocoding are the (still) high end Sennheiser or aren't actually out of a vocoder. It's not the definitive answer but you may want to look around youtube or forums for demos that sound better than what you are getting. Also make note of what kind of signal is being vocoded. If you send the vocoder a fairly narrow frequency range carrier you may be modulating parts of the spectrum with little or nothing there in the carrier. The reverse of course holds true too

The compressor idea, which is a sound idea, is to compress your modulator to get more amplitude on the bands overall. Some people experiment further with a bit of distortion and even frequency shift. the idea there is to get some other bands moving that aren't as much yet use the existing signal to do that

Okay, I'm sure the manual is online somewhere, firstly I think you should check if it's a guitar in or a line in (which they might call instrument or something) because they are not the same though some units cover a wider range of inputs. What's coming out of your compressor is going to be line level. There has to be an unbalanced line in on the vocoder.

[chamomileshark]

ok, this may help what the nature of the guitar input is..

it says "100 k ohms - it also has an input level knob and indicator lights - I guess I can set it at a very low level on the vocoder and just turn it up. If I get the red light immediately I'll just ditch the idea.

[Babaluma]

yeah, i think the idea is to put the compressor just before the vocoder's "modulator" input, which will even out the vocal sound (if that's what you are using as the modulator), and increase intelligibility.

[ndkent]

yes, sounds fine, make sure you have an unbalanced out from the comp

and yes, Babaluma, that's the idea. More amplitude overall gets through making things more clear when vocoded because you are amplitude following the modulator.

If intelligibility is concerned you also have issues of how many bands and the voicced/unvoiced circuit, which you don't have control of unless you buy or build something else. Then next up is that the carrier actually contains significant material in the same frequency ranges as the modulator, which is something the average user can do. Next up, if not of equal importance is making sure the modulator is maximized without being too far messed up..

[home_listening]

I also find that a strict high and low pass filter before the compressor before the vocoder helps focus the whole thing quite a bit too. A very quiet slap back echo is also much better than using reverb.

[drewtoothpaste]

I get better intelligibility by using a dynamic mic straight into the vocoder and then compressing the output, rather than compressing it on the way in. You'd think that compressing the input would sound better, but I find that the vocoder tends to respond better to a more dynamic signal, and then you can control the dynamics on the way out to fit it into a mix.

Also worth noting that the new EHX vocoders (Voice Box / V256) sound better than the vintage ones. More bands and better controls.

[fiero]

is good to use distortion on the synth or guitar, i like the vokator as well, you have to articulate a lot in order to make it understandable.

[chamomileshark]

thanks for your input guys.

I have in the past tried software compressors after the vocoder. I've also used Vokator, Electrix Warp Factory, Korg DVP-1 as well as the Roland SVC.

I did a test comparing the Warp Factory & Roland and the Roland was far clearer.

I suspect also because I was new to the whole idea, some of the intelligibilty issues where down to the carrier signal (both timbre and fiddling about with pitch mid word) and in the mixing with the synth elements.

I'm intending to re mix my previous attempts so it will be interesting to see how much I can improve them.

[skkatter]

The Roland SVC350 is an amazing vocoder, it should be pretty easy to get intelligible sounds out of it. Maybe you should post up some examples you've recorded and people could give suggestions.

I'd definitely pick the 350 over any of those EHX ones. Check out some Midnight Star for some classic 80s vocoder action: http://youtu.be/Lz7nSkFhBP0

[fiero]

eq is important too 300 hz humans perceive the spech at 3k consonants , and at 5k makes it little clear, so play with those settings it might help as well.