Muff's Modules & More

consumed · Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:25 pm Post subject: reel to reel?

im just getting started looking around at reel to reel machines.

im not looking to multitrack (necessarily), but am definitely interested in a r2r machine that has variable pitch control from the front panel, which i suppose would exclude any belt-driven machines. sound on sound would be cool too. has anyone been down this road? i just need some makes/models to get started researching about. thanks!

felix · Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:56 pm Post subject:

Tascam 34/38. Do it.

Also, if you want to be totally bad ass, get a 388. It's an 8 track 1/4" reel built into an 8 channel tascam mixer.

I wish I have never sold mine.

Kent · Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:45 pm Post subject: Revox C-series

I own a Revox C278 which is an 8-track 1/2" machine. It is built entirely of Studer parts and kicks posterior. Be on the look out for the C270, C274 or C278. Unfortunately for you, they are also some of the most expensive units on the used market due to their build quality and Willi Studer heritage.

Also, are you looking for 'dirt' or 'clean w/squishiness' ?

consumed · Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:44 pm Post subject:

im probably looking for dirt.

Chuck E. Jesus · Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject:

the best tape deck i've used is an Otari 1/4" 2 track (half track, 1 direction)..it had 3 speeds and varispeed, a little patching thru a board made it the best tape echo (with ping pong) money can buy...i have an Ampex deck in storage, need to check it out some day....

thermionicjunky · Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:14 pm Post subject:

Or for really weird, dirty sound, look for an old Tempophon. It had a rotating 4 head assembly that could perform independent variations in pitch and duration. You could increase the relative speed without altering the transport speed. You could raise pitch without shortening duration. You could increase duration without lowering pitch. You could not shorten duration without pitch shift, or lower pitch without increased duration. In some applications, it was the ancestor of granular synthesis.

Cat-A-Tonic · Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:48 pm Post subject: Reel to Reel

Nagra makes some really fine Reels.

Check out Skozey Fetisch.
He uses a reel to reel hands on like a turntable with scratching so forth.
I think he used an Akai... not sure.

Chuck E. Jesus · Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: Reel to Reel

J.w.M. · Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:38 pm Post subject:

What's "sound on sound?" I only know the term from the magazine's name (and can't seem to find a good definition on Google, due to the abundance of magazine-related hits). help

Cat-A-Tonic · Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:48 pm Post subject: Sound on Sound

"Sound on Sound" is when you record something in a loop and then you overdub something else on the same loop with the original sound still there. The more overdubs you do on the same loop the more the previous sounds will degrade.

I use an EH 16 second delay reissue for this sort of thing.
You can record, reverse, than record something else forward...
stretch or squash time and/or pitch.... Its fun. 8)

J.w.M. · Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:42 pm Post subject:

Awesome-- thanks Cat-A-Tonic... Sounds like sound-on-sound is pretty much what it's sounds like razz

Kwote · Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:58 pm Post subject:

Kent · Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 3:47 am Post subject:

"Sound on Sound" is simply the removal of the 'Erase' head from the equation. It is indefinite overdub city.

If you want a good & undervalued Tape Echo, search out the Multivox MX-312. One of my faves and offers two types of "Sound on Sound"

consumed any of the 1/2" and lower Fostex, Tascam & other consumer oriented tape machines should work out for you as well. There is a tube-driven Akai that kicks ass. I can't recall the model number at the moment but that thing cranks.

consumed · Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 2:20 pm Post subject:

well, i think i scored today. a local studio was dumping a couple tape machines.
by stupid luck i stumbled on the ad. went and got meself one of these (on a heavy rolling stand) for $90:
an otari mx5050 half track 1/4" stereo recorder.
since i was there i picked up 10 reels of ampex 641 NOS, sealed even.
probably paid a little too much for them though, at $8/reel Dead Banana

felix · Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 2:25 pm Post subject:

Nice score! hyper

$8 NOS tapes doesn't sound that bad at all. I was paying $120 for 2" reels 7-8 years ago; and that was with a "bro deal" hookup.

Kent · Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 4:41 pm Post subject:

That is an AWESOME score; as long as the heads, motors & other mechanical parts have even 40% life left. I used to service a fleet of those units. They be güt thumbs up

Chuck E. Jesus · Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 5:11 pm Post subject:

consumed · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 2:21 am Post subject:

ok, mine is pretty close but a little different from the pic.
im pretty stoked it has variable speed. and the speed can be adjusted both while recording and playback.
SlayerBadger!

ill have to figure out how to use the sound on sound functionality.
they call it SEL REP. im still trying to grok the functionality of the four heads.

SO!
i did some recording tonight with it. it prints a pretty strong signal to tape.
but it has some funny fluttery noise before the recording starts, in the right channel, which is not bugging me because i like the dirt factor.
so WOW! im driving recordings into tape saturation range. im getting totally new tonalities. my 606 sounds WAY better on tape than anywhere else.
i actually like the kickdrum now
w00t!!

it fits in snug right next to the mixer. things are getting tight in here.

tiny333 · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 3:46 am Post subject:

wow wow

that rocks you got a great machine for £45!!

and paid £4 per tape reel and you think that might be a bit steep!! The MSN Smack!

u jammy bugger Haha!

Chuck E. Jesus · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 7:42 am Post subject:

consumed · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 9:13 am Post subject:

thanks for the info!
i did acquire the full manual hardcopy with schematics when i bought it... a very good thing.
my model is the mx-5050 B2HD
and i found a website about someone having restored his.
http://www.tubesrit.com/audio/

after looking at the pics of his deck, i really appreciate the decent condition of mine lol

so having gotten a bit further into the spool, i started to have some trouble with one channel or the other going out while recording my own test tones to tape. it has something to do with the record and sel rep buttons...im not sure if the contacts are a little flaky or what. the funny thing is if i record something dynamic it does a bit better, although i can hear variations between the channels with a mono signal. so i think that, if i dont end up taking this machine apart, i will at least be fully learning how to maintain it
w00t

another thing to learn how to do! d'oh!

i did visually inspect the heads last night after this behavior.
they look pretty good, im not too worried about any expensive hardware replacements.

Chuck E. Jesus · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 9:35 am Post subject:

make sure you buy a good head demag right off...try some Deoxit as well, clean it up good...

if i had that i'd join up at Gear Slutz...

Kent · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 10:11 am Post subject:

A De-Magnetizer is a 'must'. ONLY buy an Annis Han-D-Mag. Nothing else. And follow the instructions diligently. There are a lot of steps about moving slowly toward and away from the heads & not plugging the Han-D-Mag into the wall socket anywhere near the whole machine.

Don't use DeOxit on anything but the I/O jacks/XLRs. Denatured alcohol is to be used upon the heads and tape path except for the rubber parts. And I'm not talking about Isopropyl Alcohol here. That stuff has water (and other stuff) in it and will cause problems. You can get the correct alcohol at pharmacists and places like ATR Service Co. or John French's operation.
You can use purpose-formulated rubber cleaner (keeps rubber moisturized), Windex, or your own spit -without coffee in it- to clean the rubber parts that touch tape. Alcohol will dry rubber out and cause it to crack.

consumed · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 10:56 am Post subject:

Chuck E. Jesus · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 11:17 am Post subject:

consumed · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 11:49 am Post subject:

no worries. im not silly enough to shoot contact cleaner/lube at my heads lol

Chuck E. Jesus · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 12:01 pm Post subject:

Kent · Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 3:28 am Post subject:

I find that it makes things go in better... but that's just the way I roll!

I didn't want to come off as being a (well-lubed) dick. I was fearing that someone, as to whose knowledge of tape machines I know not, may try putting anything that would leave a residue on the tape path.

And, if it wasn't obvious, apply the cleaner (alcohol, Windex,etc) directly to the the lint-free (available at the same places you find the good alcohol) cotton swabs and not directly to the heads, tape path or rollers. You don't need liquids dripping into the myriad spaces & holes on your tape machine.

Ross, which Ampex do you have?

consumed It has been years since I've purchased the correct alcohol in the States/North America. I can't recall the specifics. Just make sure that it isn't 'rubbing' alcohol or any alcohol that leaves behind a film.

consumed · Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 8:37 am Post subject:

consumed · Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:52 am Post subject:

OK I have a question for Kent or one of you R2R-saavy types.

When I record, say, a drum machine to tape, it sounds OK (the levels are good, etc). I usually peg the meters when I'm monitoring the source, before I lay down the recording. But when I record test tones of varying pitch, if my record inputs are below 7 or 8, I get little or no recorded signal, even though my signal is plenty hot coming in when I monitor the source. (Plenty hot=+1 on the VU meters.) If I crank up my input pots past 8 (while recording), all of a sudden my input signal sputters into existence and gets recorded to tape. Its as if any dynamics below a certain (pretty high!) level just dont get recorded or something. I'm concerned that quiet passages will crap out.

So I'll demag tonight or tomorrow. I'm sure I still have to adjust and optimize per the manual, so I will do that too. Although I am not going to plunk down the cash just for an adjustment/calibration reel of test tones. (Too expensive!) I guess I dont have faith that this problem will really be corrected by calibrating/adjusting/demagnetizing.

I didnt pick up the R2R for mastering. Its just mostly an effects device, so I can live with imperfection. It would be nice though to get it into a pretty good operational state.

Kent · Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 10:35 pm Post subject:

Sorry for the late reply, consumed... I just got back from a road trip.

It is hard to say what the issue could be just by reading a problem description & also knowing that you don't have an MRL test-tape. Without knowing what the base-line is (sans MRL) it sounds like you have an electro-mechanical issue. That is to say, something like a cold solder joint, cracked solder joint, seriously dirty input pots, etc.

I would have to know whether you are in 'Cal' mode or not as well. It seems as if you aren't since you are using the input knobs to crank the gain up. This could be the issue right here. Try it in "Cal" mode.

Make sure that the tape machine is turned off when applying the Han-D-Mag or you will fry the electronics of the machine. Another option is to leave it in "Input Monitor" mode... but to be safe, turn 'er off.

If you get seriously into using the machine, a proper test tape (you can't actually make one of these yourself; regardless of what anyone would want you to believe) is a MUST. They are worth it as long the machine is even somewhat solid.