Muff's Modules & More

Muff Wiggler · Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 9:17 pm Post subject: Cyndustries plea to make good

Ok, I cannot watch from the sidelines any longer.

For YEARS I have been aware of serious fulfillment and commitment problems from Cyndustries.

I have good, personal friends who paid in FULL over FOUR YEARS AGO for modules that were supposedly in stock and ready to ship and are STILL WAITING.

In the meantime they have been given countless reasons for the holdup and been given numerous promised ship dates that never actually happened. They've also watched a small number of people who paid later (in many cases YEARS later) receive the modules my friends are (still) waiting for. But they also saw a far larger number of people join this group who are now frustrated and angry as well.

Personally the one order I made directly from Cyndustries was shipped to me on the second request I made - after "only" one delay. But this doesn't change the fact that my friends, and many others, dont seem to be as lucky - and sadly I did learn that the unit I received 'belonged' to a friend who had ordered it years before I did.

In any case, I've been aware of these problems for years. And I see it getting worse and worse as more people enter the scene and new product announcements from Cyndustries draw more and more people into the same exhausting and miserable situation.

Cynthia I am sorry to have to do this, I truly am, but the community deserves it. I have one very good friend (of the close and personal IRL sort), someone I care for immensely, someone who has always been there for me and given me more help and support that I could ever describe - who has been out to the order of thousands of dollars to you for many years now. He can't get a straight answer, a shipment, a refund, or most of the time even the courtesy of any reply at all.

I can't do much to help here, but whatever I can do, I probably should have done it sooner.

As much as it breaks my heart to do it, this thread is basically the return of the "Plan B Sticky". It's a warning to the community and a catalogue of commitments made that haven't been fulfilled.

Like the Plan B thread, it will (unfortunately) remain sticky'd until the majority of outstanding commitments have been fulfilled. It is not intended to damage anyone's business or reputation, it's simply meant as a good faith warning to people who may not know what they are getting into. The other intent is to hopefully provide an additional reason for Cyndustries to make good on what is owed to the people with outstanding orders.

Like the Plan B thread, this thread is NOT to be used for a community debate about the issue. If you want to use the fact that Cynthia owes people money as a platform to pick fights with other Wigglers, go to another thread. They aren't hard to find. If you want to judge who has "stepped up" enough or not enough, or to draw attention to your workshop, or sell your second-hand Cyndustries modules, or announce your clone PCB offering or 4HP eurorack module, or bitch about prices or formats, this ain't the thread for that.

Please post in this thread if and ONLY IF you have an outstanding Cyndustries order and wish to make a public statement as to the status. And of course to update that status when and if new events occur. Hopefully in this way some reasonable pictures can form - a picture of the current situation, a picture of any progress that's being made, and an accurate picture of the level of risk one may be assuming when placing an order with Cyndustries.

As before (fuck I can't believe this is starting to become a habitual thing aroud here cry

) off topic comments and posts outside the scope of this thread's intent will be moderated away aggressively. Please don't make me have to spend hours doing that again, it's absolutely miserable. Thank-you.

divisionbyzero · Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 10:40 pm Post subject:

update: i've just (2012-08-09) been paid in full

probably redundant since i've posted this in other threads but i paid $1658.75 around august 8, 2008 for a ZOe which i've never seen. cynthia also refused to refund my money.

jiblite · Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:58 am Post subject:

*****RESOLVED***** see below

$532.50 deposit Feb 11, 2011 for Euro ZO. Last contact Jan 2, 2012. All subsequent emails ignored.

********
Email received 06/06/12

"Louise here, shipping at Cyndustries.

I'm preparing your Euro Zeroscillator for shipping, and upgrading to Express International for 3-5 day delivery in thanks for your patience.

I have also attached an invoice showing your balance and current shipping address. Verify that these are correct.

Please log into Paypal to pay balance to cynthia.webster@gte.net when you are ready."

Reply sent 06/06/12

"Hej Louise

Thanks for the mail. Is there any way you can give me the confidence to pay the outstanding amount? I paid the original deposit in Feb 2011 with a lead time of 2 to 3 months, and don't want to pay the outstanding amount and wait another year and a half for delivery. Sorry to bring this up, but I hope you can understand that I don't want to end up in the "good money follows bad" situation.
We can either use an Escrow service (and split the fee) or if I did submit via PayPal I would raise a dispute within 5 days of payment if I hadn't received shipping notification and escalate the claim to a charge back within 14 days of the date I paid.

Please let me know you thoughts on this, best/ben"
********

Received faulty Euro ZO on June 11th. Called Cynthia/Louise/Tito and tried to debug issue on the phone - no luck, we couldn't figure it out. A replacement was dispatched 2 days later which arrived here in Sweden on the 21st (picked up today due to Swedish Midsummer holiday) - this one works a treat (currently listening to FM bells a go go). Louise has promised to paypal me the return postage costs (27.17 USD).

All resolved - apart from the long wait and "ready in 4 weeks" mails, everything turned out perfectly.

Oh and Swedish customs can suck my balls - bloody idiots double charged me import tax, even though I sent Louise all the paperwork to include with the replacement and they marked on the box FOC replacement - yah for long drawn out claim process. twats

ear ear · Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:37 am Post subject:

14 December 2009, full payment of $1905.00 for a Modcan A Zeroscillator, Sawtooth Animator and Synthacon Filter. Have emailed her about five or so times since then. Replies intermittent. Excuses very much in line with what others have reported in various threads.

xart · Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:45 pm Post subject:

Paid Deposit z0e.

dslocum · Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:30 pm Post subject:

The total is $546.50, incl. shipping for several LPG panels (my COST).

Based on our "relationship" at the time, I did the panel layout FOR FREE (dumb shit very frustrating

) and trusted her to pay me in a timely manner.

Malekko · Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:38 pm Post subject:

Cynthia owes me 1660.00 total after paypal fees from the refund(s).

amnesia · Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 8:46 pm Post subject:

I am owed $1350 and am emailing Cynthia each week, of course I no longer get replies.

She only refunded me $200 form the total $1550 straight after I put in a claim from my credit card company after waiting ( at present) 15 months. Every contact I have had has been full of lies.

michenal · Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 10:17 pm Post subject:

I am owed $1,550 for a ZOe that I paid in full. Cynthia refused to refund me after I asked on December 2011.

dephonator · Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 3:39 pm Post subject: ZO Euro ordered in February 2011

I have ordered a Eurorack ZO in february 2011 after asking Cyndustries about delivery times. Answer: "The Euro format Zeroscillators are about five weeks away from shipping." So I paid the deposit plus shipping cost to Germany. After a couple of months I sent an email. Answer: "We're waiting for front panels to arrive It shouldn't be long, sorry for the delay!" Since then no answers to my emails at all. Asked again March 2012. Answer: "We're about three-weeks away from shipping ZOs again". I asked, where in the waiting list I am... no answer... I have been an idiot! But i didn't know about Cyndustries bad reputation at that time...

ZenArcher · Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 9:33 am Post subject:

142.50 (50% deposit on a Minor Power Supply @ May 2010)
415.00 Modcan A series Sawtooth Animator
----------
$557.50 total

CF3 · Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 12:26 pm Post subject:

I'm owed a Dotcom format Four Transients or $527.54

EDIT: 4 Transients Received! Credit where credit is due.

rayce · Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 8:19 pm Post subject:

2 ZOes on order

2550 of 3100 due paid.

Waiting since feb 2011. Despite all the negative vibes recently I'm still optimistic that my ZOes will be delivered.

Of course I ended up filling those 2 slots with a 262v which recently arrived (awesomeness!) So I don't know what I'll do if/when I get them. But I'd sure like to have them sitting in the rig. I had a Modcan ZO and it sounded awesome.

dephonator · Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:15 pm Post subject: Mail from Louise

[quote="jiblite"]Email received 06/06/12

"Louise here, shipping at Cyndustries.

I'm preparing your Euro Zeroscillator for shipping, and upgrading to Express International for 3-5 day delivery in thanks for your patience.

I have also attached an invoice showing your balance and current shipping address. Verify that these are correct.

Please log into Paypal to pay balance to cynthia.webster@gte.net when you are ready."

Hi, i'm in the same situation now (ordered my Euro ZO in Feb 2011), got mail from Louise with almost exactly the same text. I researched all my possibilities to protect my money in case I do not receive it. I'm located in Germany so things may be a bit more complicated. Will you give it a try, jiblite?

dslocum · Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:13 pm Post subject:

Personally, I wouldn't pay her another penny without a 3rd party escrow arrangement. PayPal protection is probably the best bet you can hope for at this point. I'd try to talk with someone at PayPal to discuss your options. Don't know if they have a reasonable European presence, and you'll likely need to wade thru several levels of their site, but you should eventually find a phine number where you can speak to a real person.

That's just me, but I understand that if she decides not to take you up on "your kind offer", you risk loosing the monies you've paid.

"Rock and a hard place" seem to come to mind just now. very frustrating

jiblite · Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:33 am Post subject:

*****RESOLVED***** see first post above

After thinking it over and having recently started another paypal dispute, I thought what the hell - this time I will stick to the 14 day period I stated.

So first I got

"Ben,

I told you......
I'm preparing your Euro Zeroscillator for shipping, and upgrading to Express International for 3-5 day delivery in thanks for your patience.
And now you come back accusing me of....WHAT????

Your ZO (and others) is wrapped. Shipping started yesterday. ZOe's start next week.

Now....if this is not a good time to pay the balance, that's fine, and I'll hold your module.
However, if you answer my original questions, I would be happy to start shipping in order to send you the tracking number.

You decide Ben.

Louise Liebi
Cyndustries
310-745-4691"

to which I replied

"Hej Louise

Please understand I recieved similar messages in the past from Cyndustries

"between two months and three months away" - 11th Feb 2011
"it should be later this week, or early next week" - 21st May 2011
"will have your unit shipped by the end of the month" - 12th Aug 2011
etc.

I have been patient and have never taken such a tone in my emails, so please do me the courtsey and refrain using such a tone in your emails.

I am not accusing you of anything, I am just being wary, as anyone in my position would be.

I have paid via paypal, but I will stick to my original plan.
If after 5 working days from payment I don't have a tracking number, I will open a dispute - June 13th
And if after 14 days after this I haven't received the package I will escalate the claim to a charge back - June 27th

Please do understand this is nothing personal, just someone being careful after having their good faith tested.

best/ben"

and then

"Ben,
Those dates probably coincide with the first 3 tries to get these boards out, so it was not without reason that Cynthia hoped they would pass checkboard testing. But alas, they did not until the fourth design, which tested and passed last week. Here's a status that I had prepared and sent to several people in response to their email inquiries.
Status
The Zeroscillator, Buchla Zeroscillator (4th iteration), and Four Transients, are in check board (2-4 of each) fabrication and on
5/21 will be shipped to us for assembly and testing. If these function perfectly in test, a volume of the approved boards will be ordered on
5/28, expected back to us the week of
6/4 to place parts, assemble, test and ship within week of
6/11
You, and a few others, are getting one of the successful tests prior to mass building. OK. So on to the shipping part.

I'm going to assume that your address is still as it shows on the invoice.
You'll have your tracking number within a few hours.

Louise Liebi
Cyndustries
310-745-4691

PS. Feel free to call, or send your phone number, for same "

and a tracking number

http://www.stamps.com/shipstatus/submit/?confirmation=EC206163957US

Fingers crossed

********************************************************************** ************************************

EDIT - In Progress, paid the remaining amount, received unit (within 3 days!), but having some hiccups - after a phone call am awaiting replacement module - shipping today, so hopefully by end of next week

********************************************************************** ************************************

dephonator · Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:42 am Post subject:

@jiblite: Good luck! Let's hope for the best...

In the mail I got from Louise today, she wrote: "A package was shipped to you via the U.S. Postal Service". Included was a tracking number similar to yours. I haven't even payed them yet. She also wrote: "I'm anxious to get these out the door, as you can imagine." I told her that I expect delivery within two weeks time. We will see...

I double checked with my bank: I have 8 weeks to cancel PayPal's debit, so even if they would give me problems with a dispute, I should not loose my money. So I give it a try. Will keep the forum updated.

Kent · Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:13 pm Post subject:

To quote the Prime Wiggler himself:

dephonator · Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:39 am Post subject: Delivery from Cyndustries

I just unpacked my Euro ZO. Has arrived today! Has been schipped last week, as promised by Cyndustries.

amnesia · Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:22 pm Post subject:

I feel like crying I am so worn down by all this.

After what appeared to be something positive I was contacted by Louise on 19th June ( the deadline set for the refund) that although my request for a long overdue refund wasnt really an option for me ( on my terms) I could have a specially made Zoe shipped that day" to not get the law involved", ,dont tell anyone" ( Louise)

I still excitedly got the Zoe today, its shit and going back

Zoe report,

1. The jacks are uneven in height, no nuts to hold the jacks in place and the only nut that was used is underneath the faceplate!

2. The jacks are not even suitable for the Buchla system that it is designed for. They are mini jacks suitable for the euro format modular. I cant insert the Buchla tini leads into them

3. The knobs are uneven and when rotated are wobble about unevenly.

4. Low hum in the background no matter waht pitch is set

5. Green light not working.

This has to be THE worst build I have ever come across. Children could build a better module.

Who checked this before it was obviously rushed off to me?

I have now stated that I have had enough and returned the ZOe and want my money back. I have not heard from anyone since, so its off to small claims.

amnesia · Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:17 pm Post subject:

email from Cynthia 26 June
HI Ross, Thank you for the photographs, we were all kind of stunned.

Fortunately only one new Buchla format ZOe shipped (yours of course) and as soon as I started working on the next one here I noticed the panel level and eccentric knob issues.
(the pot shafts are oddly undersized and I contacted a supplier about an immediate replacement today. )

Five of us here tonight were stunned at the Tiny-Jax compatibility issue and know that an immediate solution must be found. Most likely another run of boards pronto with the Tiny-Jax
I didn't realize it was that big an issue and your emailed pictures have sent us scrambling for the proper solution.

The one picture with the nut under the panel made me sick, I cannot imagine how we missed that except that yes, were were rushing to make the dead-line that you created.

All along I have strived to get so many details right, and now this! You have y assurance that this will be solved swiftly and properly regardless of cost to the company.

Perhaps you would grant us a few days to solve this most swiftly and intelligently. We've all been talking tonight about this after getting your email and have several ideas.

As you see we do have a finalized Zeroscillator in Surface Mount, that promise has been fulfilled.
Unfortunately with the too skinny jacks you weren't able to enjoy the proper Buchla signal levels this time.

Anyway, no excuses, that first one off the assembly line has several issues.

If you would be so kind as to recognize that we have made many improvements and still have not quite got it right
we would be happy to ship you another unit with the new jacks the moment we can build one, and know we'd damn well get it right this final time?
(We're really working hard for this, we really want to do it right and with your order or without, we are going to do this right and only wish you that would hang in with us while we quickly figure out the best solution).

My apologies Ross for rushing that out the door and not sending our best work, I don't really know how we missed those important details/

Cynthia

amnesia · Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:27 pm Post subject:

Cynthia has refunded me the postage $36.50

NOT FOR THE ZOE!

noise brigade · Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:00 pm Post subject:

Just got my Euro ZO today
Not had chance to hook it up yet
Been a long wait but not as long as some.
Mine was ordered October 2010.
So with any luck everything is coming together and everyone will get theirs very soon

Always new it would take a long time but not this long

amnesia · Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:33 pm Post subject:

noise brigade · Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:18 am Post subject:

amnesia · Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:55 am Post subject:

Thats again very strange because these have been on sale on ebay for a while and in shops.

noise brigade · Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:44 am Post subject:

divisionbyzero · Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:10 pm Post subject:

update: on 2012-07-13 i received $300 from cynthia via payapl. still owed $1358.75.

ear ear · Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:46 am Post subject:

divisionbyzero · Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:27 pm Post subject:

update: on 2012-07-26 i received $300 from cynthia via payapl. still owed $1058.75.

Cynthia · Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:06 am Post subject:

I deeply and sincerely apologize to everyone who i have upset, it was never ever intended.
All of us here are quite concerned about rectifying the situation as quickly as possible. We are not only concerned, but taking positive action each day.

Our present backlog is (31) modules in various formats and we have been shipping a lot recently to get it down to this level. Some days we ship many modules,
yesterday on the other hand, we shipped only one ZOe, and one Euro ZO because we are waiting for more parts and they didn't arrive today. Hopefully they'll arrive tomorrow
and not on Monday, because we are continuing to work seven days a week until everyone's order is delivered.

As you read this, our oldest back orders have been fulfilled. We are working on the remaining (4) Buchla format ZOe modules that are back ordered and will be shipping these early this coming week.
Parts have also been ordered for the other modules and these too are following quickly. Behind the scenes there have also been other challenges this year and I won't burden this group with the details.
As you can well imagine, i am walking a tightrope between ordering the parts to complete modules for those kind customers who have waited patiently, while rotating refund payments out to those who have not.
Doing the right thing by everyone can be challenging, but it is ultimately what I do, and who I am. All modules will of course be shipped and all refunds paid.

Perhaps some of you will agree that things on this thread seem to have gotten well out of hand? I don't blame anyone but myself, our shipping delays in the past have been upsetting to customers,
and i have only just begun really turning this around with a goal to become a model of ideal business practice. Hopefully you will continue to let me post here and to report our progress.

To Mr. Thighpaulsandra, i also owe you an apology for accidentally posting what I thought was a PM private message to the entire group, and in the process dragging you into it.
(I did not feel that I was offering any kind of preferential service, I simply read that a customer had a problem and needed help, I offer help to any human being in need, regardless of what they do for a living.
It saddened me that anyone would be so concerned that they felt they could not safely send something in for repair. Yes you can).

My silence, or any perceived arrogance in this thread is only psychological self-defense, the reality is that i am totally devastated by all of this and am doing everything I can to learn from my mistakes,
deliver quickly, and to do my very best to heal the deep hurt that i have created. I am so very sorry to have upset everyone.

Cynthia Webster

amnesia · Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:27 pm Post subject:

update:

Cynthia still owes me over $1000.00 promised back in April of 2012.
No she doesnt lie.

amnesia · Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:20 pm Post subject:

Cynthia has just refunded me $1000 she still owes me $50 and really $50 to lodge the small claims case.

Lets see.

amnesia · Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:27 pm Post subject:

Now lets hope she refunds Jon and any others who still have outstanding issues with her.

mckenic · Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:31 pm Post subject:

Edited because I forgot which thread I was in - apologies.

FFS!

amnesia · Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:35 pm Post subject:

thanks.

I just want everyone who has been screwed over this to get what is theirs. Its only been 18 months of stress.

We are a cool community and we should really cherish it.

amnesia · Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:31 pm Post subject:

I have now been finally paid in full.

divisionbyzero · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:31 pm Post subject:

i just got paid in full as well.

amnesia · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:52 pm Post subject:

Excellent Jon!

What a relief eh?

Dave Peck · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:21 pm Post subject:

divisionbyzero · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:42 pm Post subject:

cbm · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:16 pm Post subject:

away from an ideal outcome, given the circumstances.

rayce · Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:21 pm Post subject:

Im able to finally breath a sigh of relief. Received both ZOes on order. They both work and the fit and finish is solid.

Despite the drama the final product is great.

Muff Wiggler · Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:24 pm Post subject:

So who is still waiting?

I'd like to know if there's any outstanding status issues, if not I'm going to un-sticky this thread

thank-you

michenal · Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:47 pm Post subject:

Mine is still undelivered, unrefunded..

ear ear · Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:00 pm Post subject:

My situation is as stated above, though the Zeroscillator is apparently in the post.

Cynthia · Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:39 pm Post subject:

All the ZOe orders have been fulfilled, all refunds paid, the small claims case was dismissed today...

We're already done the first ZOe retrofit for a customer, and we sold and shipped eighteen new orders this week. We did all this and shipped much more, reducing last week's Grand Total Order Backlog from (31) down to (14).

Anyone who owns an Original ZOe should please contact us for a free upgrade to the new thinner Surface-Mount Design with full B&A voltage level compatibility.

Cynthia

ear ear · Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:06 am Post subject:

ZO arrived today. Just waiting for a Synthacon Filter.

asdf · Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:03 pm Post subject:

My outstanding order was just taken care of as well.

I get the impression that things may be coming around.

(I'll probably get berated for saying that . . .)

Muff Wiggler · Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:38 pm Post subject:

Ok is anyone still waiting?

Or can I un-sticky this thread now?

Thx

MindMachine · Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:41 pm Post subject:

bwhittington · Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:46 am Post subject:

paults · Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:03 pm Post subject:

I humbly accept my spot as King of the Backlog.

Muff Wiggler · Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:10 pm Post subject:

I don't see a need to have this stickied any more.