Muff's Modules & More

ersatzplanet · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:02 am Post subject:

This is a generalization but still works most of the time - Analogue gear typically has more components to do the same job than Digital. Component failure in a analog system may only result is strange behavior, filters with weird slopes or strange VCO waveforms or such whereas when a digital system has a failure it typically is something that brings down a whole section of the synth or kills it completely. As far as scarcity of parts they are about the same - old unique analogue ICs and old digital CPUs.
To me the main difference is that I can modify analogue gear more easier than digital. It is something I like to do though and you may not be interested in that.

CJ Miller · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:23 am Post subject:

darenager · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:50 am Post subject:

I guess that in the future the only way to repair synths that use custom parts is to salvage from another broken example of the same synth.

So far it seems that most IC's in vintage gear seem pretty robust, things like CPU's that are mask programmed for example, there are probably exceptions but in my experience the only IC's that have gone kaput on me are easily available logic IC's. Maybe I have just been lucky, and maybe as time goes by the possibility of failure will increase exponentially.

eccemusic · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:55 am Post subject:

Analogue synthesizers are more reliably awesome.

Dr. Sketch-n-Etch · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:16 pm Post subject:

darenager · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:49 pm Post subject:

^ Good point.

b3nsf · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:54 pm Post subject:

things that were soldered using lead solder last a lot longer, lead free solder causes tin whiskers... that causes failures

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whisker_%28metallurgy%29

also there is a thread about this here in the metasonix section...

doombient.music

soundmachines · Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:37 am Post subject:

I'm pretty much concerned about data retention in flash microcontrollers or memories. As the technology is still 'new' I think we still have to see the full effects (also because manufacturers tend to 'hide' this parameter....). This is not something digital or analog, very few synthesizer nowadays does not have a micro inside!

Morley · Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:16 am Post subject:

Never had any major problems with either BUT in my experience, digital synths can be hard to get repaired. Custom components and high density make a standard tech shudder. Many analogue synths are fairly straight forward as long as components can be found.

To be honest though, over 20 plus years I have had very few issues and have had a huge quantity of gear both analogue (mainly) and digital.

Zenn · Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:54 am Post subject:

Only synth I ever fried was an ESQ1...had a dead battery, tried to fix it myself and than it only produced "System Error. Pleas$%&*#"

Lesson learned: take 80's digital synths to the doctor, even for small fixes like batteries. or else: properly ground yourself. This is mainly because the logic board is very sensitive to static discharges. Analog and more modern synths are much less sensitive in that sense.

continuum · Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:48 am Post subject:

The lost code is really the Achilles' heel of many synths both analog and digital. I was given a JX8P to fix up, and while the analog section was fine the EPROM chip had a leg broken clean off. With no copies of the software available the synth didn't work at all.

doombient.music · Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:58 am Post subject:

I think EPROMs generally are prone to failure. The older, the more prone to disaster they are.

2708-type EPROMs in early PPGs, 2716-type EPROMs in something like a Linn LM-1...

Not to forget custom LSI chips, as used in Yamaha polyphonics like the CS50/60/80, or those custom VCO/VCF/EG ICs.

Curtis and SSMs in general.

That´s why I use my old gear *now* rather than someday or other... record it while you still can smile

.

Stephen

CalvaryBand · Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:26 pm Post subject:

A lot of late-era digital stuff seems pretty bullet-proof if you take care of it; stuff like your Viruses, Nords, etc. But, like what everyone is saying, if there is an issue with it later down the road an oldie will probably be fixable while a digital might be bricked. Not sure if this is a huge issue as a lot of digital synths now cost as much as the average repair on an analog poly, haha.

ringstone · Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:38 pm Post subject:

meatcliff · Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:29 pm Post subject:

the mention of certain brand names as examples gave me a chill down my spine...

i sure as hell don't trust certain new digital synths i own to work in ten years...

on the other hand i'd trust an older digital synth a lot more than something new.

Michaud · Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:09 pm Post subject:

I think it is the same, except that an analogue synth is probably easyer to repair.

But a digital synth is more reliable than a computer!

dougt · Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:14 pm Post subject:

splitpoint · Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:41 pm Post subject:

I don't think one is more reliable than the other.

I have an sh09 that is in for it's first service in 32 years but I also have an ESQ-1 that has only ever had the battery changed. A pair of tx7's with no issues whatsoever and a pair of EIII's that still work without ever being serviced other than swapping out dead hard disk drives. My Waveframe is 25 years old now and the only thing I've done to it was replace the aging gui computer (originally a 386) with something more modern(PIII) no problems whatsoever with the actual Waveframe hardware. When I had my Prophet 5's the only thing that needed to be replaced were the batteries but I did pay to have one upgraded with midi. Never had a single issue with the OB8 that I had. Had one PEK with encoder problems but my other PEK is an early one before the encoder issues and works great.

The only synth that I have any concerns about is my Q as parts are impossible to find and my experience is that Waldorf isn't interested in helping me keep my Q running. Makes me consider selling the Q.