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Moon Modular 564 sequential divider questions
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Author Moon Modular 564 sequential divider questions
doctorvague
OK, I've read, pondered, looked at pics, pondered some more trying to fully understand what this thing does. I admit I don't do well understanding some verbal descriptions vs hands-on...

Here's a pic for reference:


One question I definitely have is: I have read that whatever changes you make don't happen until the next cycle. Does that mean it has to completely cycle through 1-4 top to bottom before the change you make takes place? Like if it's on #2 and I switch the rotary on #3 it won't recognize that until the next complete cycle? This does not sound like a good thing to me, if that's the case, but without playing with it, it's difficult to know. With this unit you could basically use it for triggers or CV switching but not really both at the same time with any practicality, right? I'm not sure how much I really need the dividers since I kind of use my Moon trigger sequencer for that now. hmmm.....

Since I have owned these before and they work great, I had thought of taking 2 of these and mounting in 1 dotcom panel.They would barely fit in a single width panel:


Also possibly the same idea with this:


Your thoughts?
JohnLRice
The Moon M564 is awesome, buy one now!!! hyper love hyper hihi hyper

That said Mr. Green yes, the way it reacts to the rotarty switch settings is a little odd. It seems that the switches just progam something to remember what the setting was but they are only programmable when that step is active. I'd want to double verify this before you take it as gosspel but that's the impression I have. It takes a little getting used to but starts to seem OK as you work with it. You just need to think a whole cycle ahead instead of a step or two. I really do wish it was more immeadiate though, like you were saying.

It actually makes part of a nice 4 step sequencer in you add 4 bias sources. I recently picked up a Moon M525 Reversible Attenuators module to do just that. I've got a patch going but I was thinking of tearing it down for a different project. Maybe I'll do just a quick video for it . . .
(I'm pretty sure you've seen all the current video examples I have on YouTube, right?)
sunsinger
Yeah, I'm with you Doc.

I would love to see how all of the Moon 569 components function together. I don't really get the divider, skip shift functions on one knob, or the series connection.

Moon Modular's printed manuals leave me with alot of head scratching.
How is a novice supposed to relate to the cryptic diagrams?

I think they should do a series of demos showing these modules in action together. meh

Just saw your response John, I'd love to see some more demos from you.
JohnLRice
One quick comment before I munches on my lunches! Bite!

I think the M564 is just like a DotCom Q962 (or COTK C962 or Moog 962 I guess) on steroids that the Borg have assimilated (Star Trek reference)


Note this feature of the DotCom Q962:
"A 3-pin connector on the circuit board is jumpered at the factory for Single-Shift operation: every shift signal generates a shift of stages. Move this jumper to the other position (or add a switch) to invoke Double-Shift mode which requires 2 signals to generate a shift of stages."

So, this is what the M564 is doing, you just have front panel access to do single and double step shifting like the Q962 but you also have 3, 4, 8 and Skip options.

While you pretty much have to have a x962 to go with a x960 sequencer, the M569 is so versitile you really don't have to have a M564 to go woth it to do a majority of the things a x960+x962 combo would give you but a M569+M564 would give you a whole new world of possibilities and fun! thumbs up

Soup is getting cold! waah
doctorvague
Hey thanks for the response.
@Ron - John's video might help you:. Watch the blinky lights hyper

JohnLRice
And dis one toos:

sunsinger
Ahhh, Your right, the blinking lights do help, though I was in danger have having a 70's flashback from watching them...

Nice demo John. Shows very well what the 564 will do. thumbs up
neandrewthal
Ahh, so now I finally understand what it does and I want one Rage! So, with most things I can't have I have to figure out another way to do what it does. Ok, you can use a gate sequencer controlling a regular sequential switch. There! I don't need it. razz Of course I'm still missing the skip feature and the variable length of the entire cycle from 1 to 32 steps in any increment. That just means that I probably won't be using this workaround very often and I'll go back to using things the way I normally do. No biggie d'oh!
doctorvague
neandrewthal wrote:
Ahh, so now I finally understand what it does and I want one Rage! So, with most things I can't have I have to figure out another way to do what it does. Ok, you can use a gate sequencer controlling a regular sequential switch. There! I don't need it. razz Of course I'm still missing the skip feature and the variable length of the entire cycle from 1 to 32 steps in any increment. That just means that I probably won't be using this workaround very often and I'll go back to using things the way I normally do. No biggie d'oh!


I wish my mind worked like that - I could save a buttload of money! Mr. Green
I'm the guy that 'needs' a table saw, sabre saw, hand saw, coping saw, reciprocal saw, jeweler's saw, miter chop saw, 2 different saws that attach to a Dremel...
neandrewthal
doctorvague wrote:
neandrewthal wrote:
Ahh, so now I finally understand what it does and I want one Rage! So, with most things I can't have I have to figure out another way to do what it does. Ok, you can use a gate sequencer controlling a regular sequential switch. There! I don't need it. razz Of course I'm still missing the skip feature and the variable length of the entire cycle from 1 to 32 steps in any increment. That just means that I probably won't be using this workaround very often and I'll go back to using things the way I normally do. No biggie d'oh!


I wish my mind worked like that - I could save a buttload of money! Mr. Green
I'm the guy that 'needs' a table saw, sabre saw, hand saw, coping saw, reciprocal saw, jeweler's saw, miter chop saw, 2 different saws that attach to a Dremel...


Well to be fair, my workaround kind of sucks. Sure I could make a patch that does exactly what this thing does at any given time, but it will take up multiple modules, and as soon as you turn a single switch on the M564 I might have to flick a bunch of switches repatch some cords, get some other modules involved and do some head scratching before I can replicate what it is now doing.

btw, I have a hacksaw hihi
JohnLRice
Here's a new video I did to show how much fun (IMHO) the M564 can be! Play it loud! screaming goo yo hyper hihi

sunsinger
Lovely Viddie John. Seeing more the uses of the 564. Still too much of a novice myself to understand the role of the reversible attenuator.

I have alot of patching practice to do and some years of tweaking my rig to understand the more sophisticated uses of some of this equipment. Driving
JohnLRice
sunsinger wrote:
Lovely Viddie John. Seeing more the uses of the 564. Still too much of a novice myself to understand the role of the reversible attenuator.

I have alot of patching practice to do and some years of tweaking my rig to understand the more sophisticated uses of some of this equipment. Driving


Thanks Ron!

The M564 is a switch that can route 1 input to 1 of 4 outputs OR 4 inputs to 1 output. The latter is what I'm doing in this vid. The M525 attenuator module has the handy feature of acting as a voltage bias source when nothing is plugged into the inputs. So it acts as a quad voltage source and each knob controls one of the four "pitches" . The M525 and M564 together is sort of like taking the first 4 steps of a Q960 sequencer, with a few extra features (and missing a couple).
doctorvague
John you give good video.
The 564 made the cut.

Here's my latest draft buy list from my MS-20 money:
Moon Quantizer + 2 expanders
STG Wavefolder
Oakley Equinoxe Phaser
Oakley VC ADSR+VCA - I debated on the Moon VC EG - tough call
Moon 564 sequential divider
Doepfer A-150 dual VC switch
Doepfer A-151 sequential switch
Pics of the last 2 are at the top of the thread
I'll remount both Doepfer modules in one double width MU panel
I had these in my (s)old Euro system and used them constantly. Great utility modules for sequencing and I personally like LED's for these kinds of functions. This will completely max out my 66 space.

Thanks for making that video, John - and the rest of them, too, of course!
Paddy's Kitchen
Hope no-one minds me following on from an old thread, but didn't want to repeat where relevant (if its bad karma please advise me!) but I found this helpful and interesting; so as I understand:

JohnLRice wrote:
I think the M564 is just like a DotCom Q962 (or COTK C962 or Moog 962 I guess) on steroids that the Borg have assimilated (Star Trek reference)


Note this feature of the DotCom Q962:
"A 3-pin connector on the circuit board is jumpered at the factory for Single-Shift operation: every shift signal generates a shift of stages. Move this jumper to the other position (or add a switch) to invoke Double-Shift mode which requires 2 signals to generate a shift of stages."

So, this is what the M564 is doing, you just have front panel access to do single and double step shifting like the Q962 but you also have 3, 4, 8 and Skip options.


the 564 offers several advantages over the 962 variants with its extra functionality but could still be used as a 962?

JohnLRice wrote:
While you pretty much have to have a x962 to go with a x960 sequencer, the M569 is so versitile you really don't have to have a M564 to go woth it to do a majority of the things a x960+x962 combo would give you but a M569+M564 would give you a whole new world of possibilities and fun! thumbs up


However if I understand that correctly does this still mean I can use a 564 with a 960 or to I pretty much have to have a 962 with a 960? Or is it simply that whilst one can be used in place of another, they are broadly designed to match their respective partner modules?

Apologies if i'm misunderstanding

Kind regards
JohnLRice
Paddy's Kitchen wrote:
the 564 offers several advantages over the 962 variants with its extra functionality but could still be used as a 962?


Oh yeah! thumbs up I'm pretty sure that the 564 can do everything the 962 can plus a whole lot more. The only possible downsides are that it takes up twice as much room and costs two or three times more.


Paddy's Kitchen wrote:
JohnLRice wrote:
While you pretty much have to have a x962 to go with a x960 sequencer, the M569 is so versitile you really don't have to have a M564 to go woth it to do a majority of the things a x960+x962 combo would give you but a M569+M564 would give you a whole new world of possibilities and fun! thumbs up


However if I understand that correctly does this still mean I can use a 564 with a 960 or to I pretty much have to have a 962 with a 960? Or is it simply that whilst one can be used in place of another, they are broadly designed to match their respective partner modules?


You can mix and match any of those modules (although owning ALL of them is best! 8_) ) There is nothing specific that would cause one not to work with the other. If you are thinking of getting a Q960 (or C960) and have the money and space for it I would definitely go for the Moon 564. The Q962 is an excellent module though and if space and cost are a consideration getting one will be a good move.

Also consider the COTK C962B and C962C!
Paddy's Kitchen
many thanks John that ticks my boxes, the clear answer is....build more cabinets!
Bryan B
I just bought a 564 used and I already think another might be a good idea.

You can run 4 different sequencers from this module. If you have 4 Voltage Mini-stores you can set how many clocks each module gets and run the CV from each into the 564 signal inputs and the output will be a variable from 1 to 32 step sequence.

You can take the 4 gate outputs (which are on throughout the whole stage) and run them into a gate length module. That will turn the gates into trigger outs then send them to an envelope. When you shift your sequencer with the undivided clock and you get programmable repeating notes. This makes your 8 or more sequencer into a more efficient and purposeful beast.

If you have a really fast clock you can use this module to divide the clock down to a simpler or less frequent clock.

The timing this thing can help create is pretty amazing. You can use the gate outs to run a sequential switch and turn your CV off for a variable amount of time. This creates some great negative space and extends your sequences in an amazing way.

If you take the time to dial out a bunch of notes that sound great in any order, this module can really rearrange the sequences on the fly.

The skips are great because you can skip 3 stages and set your notes while focusing on one stage at a time.

You can use the gate outs, the sequential switch and the stage trigger ins at the same time. I move the dials when they are not active and have only noticed weird response on a few occasions using it that way. Non of the times bothered the sound of the resulting sequence.
Putte
Is it possible to split the M564 in two sections, having the first two counters work one sequencer, and the other two controlling another?
Ockeghem
Bryan B wrote:

You can run 4 different sequencers from this module.

woah woah woah woah

Putte wrote:

Is it possible to split the M564 in two sections

doctorvague has all the saws you will need, just unplug the module first hihi
No, but seriously, if it runs four, it could probably run two somehow.
Putte
Naturally, it can run two - just skip the lower two. The question is if it can run two sequencers separately. Can the upper two and the lower two counters work independently?
steffengrondahl
Putte wrote:
Naturally, it can run two - just skip the lower two. The question is if it can run two sequencers separately. Can the upper two and the lower two counters work independently?


I doubt. I see nothing indication this is possible, but someone with a M564 (John L Rice for instance) can probably confirm this.
JohnLRice
Putte wrote:
Can the upper two and the lower two counters work independently?


No, the steps of the Moon 564 can't be 'split' into independent groups.
JohnLRice
I'll dredge up this old thread zombie since I have related info. I finally finished modifying my 564 so now it can do CV sequencing. hyper It's really no different then using a Moon 525 quad attenuator with the 564 like I did in that earlier video but in trying to come up with ways to cram more into a small case intended for live use I decided to put simple attenuators into the 564.


(note: this picture has been beautified and my screwups have been removed! hihi )

Here's a quick and not very informative test on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BdcVzq7geh-/
bwhittington
That’s a cool mod, John!
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