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are sammich fm kits still around? or something comparable?
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Author are sammich fm kits still around? or something comparable?
lilakmonoke
im really in love with that opl3 sound and i have to sell my fs1r. the last batch of sammich fm kits was in 2012? is there still something going on? thanks for any info on this!
mxmxmx
lilakmonoke wrote:
im really in love with that opl3 sound and i have to sell my fs1r. the last batch of sammich fm kits was in 2012? is there still something going on? thanks for any info on this!


well, those YMF262 chips seem to be sort of available, the hardware simple enough:schematic. looks as if a/some version of the pcb can still be bought here.

would be fun putting this in a module à la SID guts. the midibox firmware looks evil though (well, to me. edit: then again, it doesn't seem to be doing very complex things)

this one seems to come with some sort of C library, but i don't know how those two chips compare, soundwise.
mxmxmx
...

sorry, double post
Altitude909
There's the PreenFM2, not OPL based but a FM powerhouse for sure
lilakmonoke
mxmxmx wrote:
lilakmonoke wrote:
im really in love with that opl3 sound and i have to sell my fs1r. the last batch of sammich fm kits was in 2012? is there still something going on? thanks for any info on this!


well, those YMF262 chips seem to be sort of available, the hardware simple enough:schematic. looks as if a/some version of the pcb can still be bought here.

would be fun putting this in a module à la SID guts. the midibox firmware looks evil though (well, to me. edit: then again, it doesn't seem to be doing very complex things)

this one seems to come with some sort of C library, but i don't know how those two chips compare, soundwise.


definitely, put an opl3 into a module and find some way to get at all the parameters and you have a winner. add a usb midi in and cv vor the most important stuff and cc for the rest. the preen fm is not the same but still very good.
mxmxmx
lilakmonoke wrote:
mxmxmx wrote:
lilakmonoke wrote:
im really in love with that opl3 sound and i have to sell my fs1r. the last batch of sammich fm kits was in 2012? is there still something going on? thanks for any info on this!


well, those YMF262 chips seem to be sort of available, the hardware simple enough:schematic. looks as if a/some version of the pcb can still be bought here.

would be fun putting this in a module à la SID guts. the midibox firmware looks evil though (well, to me. edit: then again, it doesn't seem to be doing very complex things)

this one seems to come with some sort of C library, but i don't know how those two chips compare, soundwise.


definitely, put an opl3 into a module and find some way to get at all the parameters and you have a winner. add a usb midi in and cv vor the most important stuff and cc for the rest. the preen fm is not the same but still very good.


i'm still trying to get my round that ymf262 register stuff, but something like this seems to be doable, where basically only one operator is editable (selected by a tact switch/on the right). that's 20 HP.


not all parameters though, and would still be a lot of work.
lilakmonoke
right, well done! its basically this list of features that you have to handle one way or another. this is from the midibox description. thats a lot of possibilities. i think one monophonic voice and chords with 6 voices would be really interesting. this shouldnt be too expensive to build so you can always have 2/3 in your rack. there is no way you could add a usb in with midi cc for all the parameters?

Quote:
A single operator provides:

8 different waveforms
an adjustable output level with 6-bit resolution which affects the output amplitude (carrier) or the modulation index (modulator)
a frequency multiplier with 4-bit resolution
a simple envelope generator (ADSR), each parameter with 4-bit resolution. Sustain phase can be omitted
key scaling (0 db/oct, 1.5dB/oct, 3.0dB/oct, 6.0dB/oct)
envelope scaling (higher notes are shorter then lower notes)
Vibrato and Tremolo (fixed frequency)
Feedback with 3-bit resolution (only the first OP)

A single voice consists of 4 operators and provides:

only a single pitch for all 4 operators (frequency detuning between the operators of one voice not possible)
4 different OP connection modes (algorithms)
2 software implemented LFOs which can be assigned to the operator volumes and to the pitch
1 software implemented envelope generator which can be assigned to the operator volumes and to the pitch

A single instrument can control one or more voices (up to 6), it provides:

mono/legato/poly play mode
automatic voice assignment (longest note will be killed first)
adjustable pitch bender range and finetune
portamento (optionally with "Sus-Key" playing behaviour)
Velocity can be assigned to any CC sound parameter
Modulation Wheel can be assigned to any CC sound parameter
Aftertouch can be assigned to any CC sound parameter
A 32-step wavetable sequencer with up to 500 Hz play rate which can be assigned to 3 CC sound parameters
LFOs/EG5/WT sequencer can be synchronized to MIDI clock

A LFO provides:

5 waveforms
rate from 0.032 Hz to 45 Hz
key sync and start phase (0°-360°)
the LFO signal can control: the pitch depth of a voice, the four operator volumes, the frequency of the co-LFO, the amplitude of an AOUT (CV) output
separate depth parameters for all modulation targets

The EG5 provides:

an attack-decay1-decay2-sustain-release curve (7 parameters). Rates from 2 mS to 27 seconds
an assignable non-linear curve function for attack/decay/release
the EG5 signal can control: the pitch depth of a voice, the four operator volumes, the frequency of LFO1, the amplitude of a CV output
separate depth parameters for all modulation targets

The wavetable sequencer provides:

3 assignable CC parameters
32 steps
absolute (0-127) or relative (-64..63) control
3 play modes (note, note step, freerunning)
frequency rate from 2 Hz..500 Hz

An ensemble consists of 4 instruments and provides:

the patch and bank number (8 * 128 patches can be stored in 8 BankSticks)
a separate MIDI channel for each instrument
keyboard split zone
overall volume
velocity curve (Flat/Hard/Soft
Semitones Transpose function
Unisono function (allocates two detuned voices)
separate routing of the OP1/2 and OP3/4 outputs to the 4 audio channels

The separate percussion channel provides:

2-OP Bass Drum
1-OP Snare
1-OP Tom
1-OP HiHat (open and closed)
1-OP Cymbal
Adjustable frequencies (BD: independent, Tom/HiHat/Cymbal: coupled)
separate keyboard zones for each drum
oootini
OLP3 module ala SID GUTS would be great.

FWIW - don't bother trying to hunt down a sammichFM. the UI/control is horrendous IMO. the editors never worked for me either. sold it pretty quickly.
lilakmonoke
oootini wrote:
OLP3 module ala SID GUTS would be great.

FWIW - don't bother trying to hunt down a sammichFM. the UI/control is horrendous IMO. the editors never worked for me either. sold it pretty quickly.


that sounds too bad im already hunting around. what then? is the midibox fm better? it just looks like a really difficult build. i would be happy with a box with just midi in. i write my own sequencers so anything via midi cc is fine. i just love the sound of this chip, basically something like this:

Altitude909
MidiboxFM = SammichFM

UI is different, that's all
mxmxmx
lilakmonoke wrote:
right, well done! its basically this list of features that you have to handle one way or another. this is from the midibox description. thats a lot of possibilities. i think one monophonic voice and chords with 6 voices would be really interesting. this shouldnt be too expensive to build so you can always have 2/3 in your rack. there is no way you could add a usb in with midi cc for all the parameters?


well, the less pots, encoders, switches etc, the cheaper. the drums for instance i'd keep out, or do it as an expansion. as to usb midi, that really depends how you go about it, of course, but these days most microcontrollers can do usb hid fairly easy anyways. so it wouldn't be a big deal

(the above UI for instance would need some 12 ADC channels, plus 14 digital inputs or so; and then you'll need a few more pins to talk to the yamaha chip, which pretty much rules out AVRs unless you're into multiplexers. i'd probably go the easy route and use a teensy 3.1).

one thing i'm not getting yet is how the mapping to the DAC channels is supposed to work
mckenic
Jeez I LOVE my SammichFM! The Random gen is brilliant!
Dimitree
I have a YMF262 chip that I don't need for sale if you want. You would also need 2 DAC chips
lilakmonoke
thanks for the offer! i just checked the build video on the sammich fm kit and its not easy at all at least for me. i guess the midi box version is even more complicated to build.

i would trade a euro module for a complete sammich fm or midibox fm if somebody wants to get rid of one. but really, if sammich fm has folded somebody should pick up the flag and continue this, its such a good sound. i know some techno producers that would be really into those drum sounds.

btw there is the adlib tracker that will work either with a real soundblaster card or some simulation of the chip. looks really interesting and it also runs on linux which is my os.

http://www.adlibtracker.net/downloads.php
lilakmonoke
and here is the midibox fm version 2 which is aparently in development. this thing looks awesome. is this a unique build or is there some kit for it ... the dIY scene around midibox is just awesome!

its from this forum page: http://midibox.org/forums/topic/18282-midibox-fm-v20-on-lpc17/


mckenic
eek! we're not worthy

Sheeet! That is BEAUTIFUL!!!
lilakmonoke
@mxmxmx here is a rather detailed description of the opl3 chip from the 90s ...

http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~john/computer/opledit/tech/opl3.txt
mxmxmx
lilakmonoke wrote:
@mxmxmx here is a rather detailed description of the opl3 chip from the 90s ...

http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~john/computer/opledit/tech/opl3.txt


thanks, i had seen this. the thing i was wondering about is the Channel select register; i figure this simply means that any of the six "channels" (in 4 operator mode) can be mapped/assigned to any or all of the four DAC outputs (as in: hard pan left / hard pan right / both). i'm not sure what it would make sense to have in a module, ... assuming this is going to be a one voice affair essentially. so presumably stereo out/using only one YAC512 will do? that'll save a little panel space, too.

edit: like so:




note, that's not a panel design, just to indicate the functional relationships (the idea behind the "perc." switch is to have a percussion mode, where the 4 level inputs on the far left would/could be repurposed as additional trigger inputs). most of the effort would be about implementing the interface, obviously, lots of i/o to deal with. something like this would involve:

- 16 ADC inputs.
- 2 encoders with switches: 6 digital inputs.
- another 7 digital inputs for the tact switches and gate
- 6 digital lines for the LEDs
- another 12 data lines to talk to the chip; presumably that will require some level shifting (3v3 > 5v)



anyways, i've been lusting for a multi-op FM module for a while but never looked into the opl3 stuff. it seems to sound quite nice.

so maybe i'll get a few chips -- anyone knows, can the stuff you can buy on ebay be trusted?
oootini
@mckenic how do you program patches?
lilakmonoke
there is some serious music composed with the opl3 ... this one is mastered to cassette

[bandcamp width=100% height=120 album=1894287040 size=large bgcol=ffffff linkcol=0687f5 tracklist=false artwork=small]


and this is a brazilian chiptune music producer

[bandcamp width=100% height=120 album=1332543758 size=large bgcol=ffffff linkcol=0687f5 tracklist=false artwork=small]
mckenic
oootini wrote:
@mckenic how do you program patches?


thumbs up

Well sir, it aint pretty abut here it is! Hit Random until something tickles your fancy, hit Save and move on!


Press the right Menu button, Scroll all the way right, hit the right Menu button and your in the Randomizer - All, Operators, LFO or Env Gens! I rarely go past All and OP - there is too much madness to be found in there! I have to say - its my secret weapon - frakkin love it!!!

Here are the first 40-45 random patches on my Sammich!
lilakmonoke
that is some serious fm mayhem! apparently the interface is so buggy that its almost impossible to edit a patch on the machine. but the random stuff is nice. if you ever get tired of it maillme i would trade it for an nice module ;-) ... anybody owning a midibox fm here?
mxmxmx
does anyone know more about this v2 box?

specifically, as it seems to be built around a stm32f3 based "core" module, i'm assuming the YMF262 inputs can be driven high from 3v3?
definitely that's suggested by the schematic of said core module (J10, J28, which seem be doing the talking to the chip, are simply broken out from the M3 micro) ... anyone can confirm this?

the YMF262 datasheet is (to me) entirely confusing on that point, seemingly saying yes. but no.

edit, nevermind i figured it out.

mxmxmx
i don't know why exactly, but it turns out i'm midway in lay-outing a eurorack pcb for this ymf262 chip.

not sure yet what will come out of it, if anything; lots of unknowns involved, as far as i'm concerned (like coming up with some useable firmware). (it'll use a teensy 3)

anyways, existing sammich fm users: anyone can tell me whether i'm missing some crucial parameter? (this now is the actual component placement, it was easier to cram it all onto a 100mmx100mm board this way). (i have no clue, for instance, whether there's any point to having CV control over "ksr" (key scale rate)).

lilakmonoke
thats looking great! i dont have a opl3 based synth yet but will try to help any way i can. so this is a single voice out of 6 possibe ones + percussion?

- the mult. cv ins are for multiple voices?

- the two outputs to the right are for voice and percussion? how do you trigger percussion?

- why not leave krs fixed at 1v/oct. and instead have a chords cv input. just a list of 6 voice chord configuration that you can step through via cv. all 6 voices use the same voice parameters. kind of like the shapeshifter or the waldorf rocket. that would be really powerful and then you are using a lot of the possibilities of the opl3.

- and like i said a usb midi in with full midi cc specs. for all parameters. then it would be a dual function thing, cv opl3 eurorack module and opl3 midi synth. how cool would that be? maybe just put a midibox fm circuit on a second board? i have no clue what would be involved to make this work but then the module would make total sense ... and i would gladly pay 100$ more for it.

edit: got it, mult are the multipliers and krs just affects the amplitude. the percussion part i still dont understand.
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