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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Lets Talk Clavinets
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> General Gear  
Author Lets Talk Clavinets
Funky40
please lets talk clavinets in any way. feel free to contribute !

here´s my specific question :
so, while i´m a sucker of funk, with much love for the Clavinet parts on Funk tunes, i never had my hands on a clavinet.
Now, a buddy will let go his Clavinet and i could get it.
whats your opinion, is it worth it to get a real Clavinet ?
or do i better take that amount of money as a partial fund for a Nord stage or Kronos or so ?


at the moment i´m mainly into playing my EX5/Motif when doing music, .....GRND and Rhodes sounds.
The plan is to sell my EX5 AND my motif ES7 and get a Motif XF ( for the sampling) or Kronos ( possibly too complicated )
or a Nord stage.........not shure.
so getting that Clavinet would hurt, but then............. ? i´m all over for funk lol
is it worth it ?




some of my favorite tunes


Thats a Clavinet here, right , or rhodes or Guitar ? oops ( o:16 / 0:18 sec )
dude
there is nothing, i repeat nothing like playing a well cared for clav. the subtlety and available timbres are spectacular.

but they can be a very fiddly. if you do your own upkeep work, it will be a pita. the new strings don't have the even feel of the original ones. way too much bass and steep difference between certain notes (different gauge/size used). hammers have to be replaced but the old ones turn to putty. maybe all the work has been done already.

if i were more proficient in terms of chords i would find one to be indispensable in my rig. currently i can accept needing an electric piano (again) but the clavs cost a lot. the sound palette is wider than one might think via pickup switching and the damper on most models. i guess if i found one the felt perfect, i would probably buy it regardless of price but i could never get the full magic back in mine despite all the work i put in.

and don't fucking get me started on re-yarning.

none of that probably helped one way or the other.
felixer
dude wrote:
there is nothing, i repeat nothing like playing a well cared for clav. the subtlety and available timbres are spectacular.

i think that goes for any original be it clav, hammond, rhodes etc. my weakness is the mellotron. played several originals and all had serious problems. so i ended up with a sample set. have a wurlitzer that needs 500-1000 euro repairs .... been looking around for a hammond but will prob end up with the ferrofish emulator. the price of maintaining an original is high. gigging is out of the question.
your call ... but with the clav an essential accesory is a mutronIII hyper there again: i never found anything modern that sounded exactly like my old one. but that became a maintenance problem too, so i sold it off to some collector who put it on a shelf ...
i guess it depends if you really want to 'live the clav life'. then you want an original. mainly for the subtle interaction. if you just want the sounds and don't do much playing there are more practical formats. at least nowadays there is some choice. imitations may never replace an original but they do come damn close these days ... esp in a band context most wouldn't hear it. but for the player there is a big difference.
Randy
I had a Clavinet C way back when, and regret selling it of course. There is a sample on my Kurzweil K2600XS that is quite good but it is difficult to accurately recreate that "thwack" that a real Clavinet does.

Mine had a habit of picking up CB radio broadcasts from local truckers but that wouldn't be much of an issue now-a-days. Made for some interesting additions to the live performance 'though.

There is one aspect of having the real instrument that I kinda miss. Although an envelope follower (the already Mutron III for example) was nice, a wah wah pedal is better, so I kept my Clav permanently hooked to a phase shifter and a wah wah. This is much more inconvenient now-a-days because I really don't want those two effects in the chain on the Kurzweil on a permanent basis.

I miss the wah wah enough 'though that I might put together an effects loop for the Clav sample when I get my Behringer X32.

Check this one out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cm_cFzVAoo8

Randy
tron23
There is absolutely nothing in this world like playing a well cared of Clavi through a nice wah pedal (Shin-ei is my personal choice) and maybe some tubes. Out of all the keyboards i have tried this was the most expressive, never out of date sounding setup that kept me on for hours of fun! I foolishly traded my duo and I am left mad looking for a replacement, hopefully a d6 soon! Guinness ftw!
EMwhite
I 'picked up' a D6 for a friend and when I say 'picked up' I mean to say that he bought it on eBay, I drove to Brooklyn and dragged it back to NJ, built a shipping crate and shipped it to Arkansas.

But I had it for a few days and have a pile of pictures and some video of me playing it (poorly) that I can post here if interested. It's a crappy iPhone video but still you get the sense of the responsiveness of the instrument rather that seeing somebody play it that actually knows what they are doing and playing it in a mix.

The 'action' so to speak is very 'low' meaning that they keys don't have a lot of travel; this particular Clav had some switch issues so I didn't really mess with it much and the dampening was something I also didn't experiment with.

I'd argue that despite there being some very good digital claves out there, there is nothing like the real thing in the same way that there is nothing like a Rhodes;

Some instruments (like a Hammond) use switches for keys so there really isn't any expression unless you are messing with drawbars for various combinations while playing. Of course I'm using the term 'expression' loosely.

But Rhodes and Clavs have so much control and an acoustic quality to them (via hammers and pickups) that you can really slam on a Rhodes and get that nasty/lovely honk, or you can stab on a Clav and get that funk.

You've got to play one to really understand. This particular D6 had a recent refurb to the hammer tips and new strings not too long ago (a matter of years, not decades). it's a pretty awesome instrument.
Funky40
yeah, guess i have to play it first for a few days. i try to arrange that.

while i can be quite happy with rhodes sounds from a rompler,...soundwise
i never was with any Clav sounds on my EX5 nor Motif-ES. These just don´t do it.
I absolutely can imagien that the dynamic of a real Clavinet is absolutely a key point.

the buddy will give me probably a Rhodes on loan, but he don´t want to sell that Rhodes .
i´ve begging since three years or so to get that rhodes lol no success

probably a point is, how long can one be happy with just playing Clav sounds ?
I do not play in a Band..........never did with Keys, just with Bass.
My guess is that a Clavinet is something for band uses. Funk !........which was what we did.
I´ll see.
but no comments in direction: "just get a "stage" or "Kronos" " so far ......


thanks
Randy
Not perfect but here's one of the Clav samples from the Kurzweil K2600XS:

https://soundcloud.com/piscione/superstition

Randy
felixer
EMwhite wrote:


The 'action' so to speak is very 'low' meaning that they keys don't have a lot of travel ....

Some instruments (like a Hammond) use switches for keys so there really isn't any expression

not quite ... the key switches in a hammond are sliding to do all the different drawbars. so if you press only a bit you'll hear only part of the sound. this is how you do yer 'ghost notes': lightly brushing the keys. never works on midi keyboards since most are moddeled on the piano where the 'trigger point' is all the way at the bottom. any modern imitaton does that?

but yes, playability and interaction are the thing here ... i bet you can play a lot faster on that clav then on a standard midiboard 8_)
don't forget to plug it into some small tube amp and turn it up. can sound like a rocky rhythmguitar twisted

with the mellotron it's the 8sec limit on note lenght. this forces you to develop this typical 'spider' style where you constantly keep the chord moving. and automatically add plenty of echo to conceal it. you 'll never get into that if your samples are looped hihi
EMwhite
felixer wrote:

not quite ... the key switches in a hammond are sliding to do all the different drawbars. so if you press only a bit you'll hear only part of the sound. this is how you do yer 'ghost notes':


Never knew! I've got a 1958 Hammond M3 and never even realized but just confirmed. Obviously, I'm not a golfer. More like a mono synth player. Thanks for the correction.

One of the other wigglers here gave me an M3 keyboard which I plan on making into a Oberheim two voice project at some point. Just counted 80 contacts on the bottom, not sure how they work that into 44 keys. I'm sure I'm missing 1/2 of the electronics required; cool none the less.
Funky40
thanks Randy for sharing. Thats Great work !


felixer wrote:

don't forget to plug it into some small tube amp and turn it up. can sound like a rocky rhythmguitar twisted


To sound like a rockguitar is an easy task with any rompler too,
at least if you have a few well suited modules beside it. No need for Tubes wink

I´ve had my keyboard up the last weeks ( EX5 or Motif ES7 )
Man, i allways think when i patch thru my modular ( Grnd and Rhodes Sounds ), ....if the guitarists just knew....... lol
Randy
Thank you, appreciate it.

Randy
felixer
Funky40 wrote:



felixer wrote:

don't forget to plug it into some small tube amp and turn it up. can sound like a rocky rhythmguitar twisted


To sound like a rockguitar is an easy task with any rompler too,
at least if you have a few well suited modules beside it. No need for Tubes wink

again it's the interaction. a good valve amp turned up (not the preamp but the master) will get you a supremely touchsensitive effect: play softly and it's clean, dig in and it'll distort. with dozens of shades in between. same as with a guitar. plus the fact that 1 distorted chord sounds quite different to 6 distorted single notes if you see what i mean. not comparable to any sort of sampled sound. although i'm sure you can get close ...
prob not your cup of tea, but listen to 'rainbow - on stage' and you'll hear the clavinet picking up the riff every time blackmore goes into a solo.
Funky40
felixer wrote:
(not the preamp but the master) .

ahhh, you was refering to a full tube amp we're not worthy
i never had one, but know exactly what you mean.

Yeah, its the win in dynamic response which is to me the most important factor on those.
it was me who suckered our guitarist to get a full tube amp btw. ( at the time i was a bassplayer.)

though show me somebody a full tupe amp for home use. ( tame loudness )
a kit eventually.
felixer
Funky40 wrote:


though show me somebody a full tupe amp for home use. ( tame loudness )
a kit eventually.

well, how thick are your walls? lol what you want is power-tube distortion. and there are no powertube amps possible with less then, say 5W. that's still quite loud for yer average home. forget those designs that use a smaller wattage preamp tube as final/power tube. been there, did that, listened to others and it's just not happening. much better solution is a silent replacement for the speakers because that's the real problem. something like this palmer http://www.thomann.de/gb/palmer_pdi03.htm sounds really seriously good. even keith richards thought so and he is a confessed luddite hihi may look expensive but you'll save on speakers and a mic, so it's not that bad ...

i have two palmer boxes and could let go of one. if you want a valve amp i could help you with that too. pm me if you're interested.
Funky40
very interesting !
i will PM you the next days.
guess you speak german ?


i´ve ssen the 5W amp kits from ...? musikding i guess.
and allways thought they will be too loud for home.
sehr ringhörig hier......
ectoplasm
I've been listening to the Fantastic Planet soundtrack alot lately, Clavinets are some trancendental black magic shit to be sure. I'd grab that up if I had the opportunity.
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