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Fast Envelope besides Cwejman
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author Fast Envelope besides Cwejman
franzschuier
I searched a bit but couldnt find a definite answer to this.
Is there another really fast envelope besides the cwejman
adsr? - meaning lower than 0.5ms attack time?
e-grad
Don't know the specs but the A140 is fast.
franzschuier
hmm.. i have two but there not fast enough for me twisted
D/A A/D
M10 and Maths both do this really well...
e-grad
franzschuier wrote:
hmm.. i have two but there not fast enough for me twisted


seriously, i just don't get it I had two of them and with the right setting of the range switch they were unusable for most musical applications unless you're doing clicks and cuts.

With the range switch to LOW it should go below 100µsec.
Somatic
Module A-140 has available a three-position toggle switch to select one of three time ranges. The envelope duration ranges from about 50us (microseconds) up to several minutes.
baboo
I think that ASOL EG01 can go up to audio rate in the repeat mode so it should be pretty fast, couldn't find exact specs tho
Navs
e-grad wrote:
Don't know the specs but the A140 is fast.


It is bloody fast, but speed ain't everything wink

franzschuier wrote:
hmm.. i have two but there not fast enough for me


Seriously, how fast do you want them to be? seriously, i just don't get it

We had a long discussion about envelopes & speed over at sequencer.de a while ago. IMO what marks the Cwejman out is its response curves, dynamic range and stability. The A-140 sounded linear and lifeless to my ears and that is why I sold mine. But, I certainly wouldn't describe the Doepfer as sluggish.
e-grad
Navs wrote:
The A-140 sounded linear and lifeless to my ears and that is why I sold mine.


I'm sure the vast majority of ADSRs commercially available are linear.
franzschuier
hmmmh. Ok maybe the vca I use it with is the problem.
I have a cwejman Vm1 where the a is 0,5ms in fastest position and
it sounds faster to me than another osc into Doepfer VCA controlled by A140.
Yohda
Quote:
I'm sure the vast majority of ADSRs commercially available are linear.

I'm not sure, but I think the majority of ADSR have Log attack and expo decay and release. smile

Quote:
hmmmh. Ok maybe the vca I use it with is the problem.

It may be a part of the problem, yes, you need a good VCA like the Cwejman with very fast enveloppe.
Navs
franzschuier wrote:
hmmmh. Ok maybe the vca I use it with is the problem.
I have a cwejman Vm1 where the a is 0,5ms in fastest position and
it sounds faster to me than another osc into Doepfer VCA controlled by A140.


This could be it. Which Doepfer VCA do you have linear or exponential?

The Cwejman VCAs are semi-log (even when it says lin) or exp.

Flipping my VCA-2P to exp. has a radical effect on the sound, making it much snappier.
chinard
MATHS!!! Guinness ftw!

I also use the Doepfer A-143-2 quad adsr when i need super fast envelopes.
here's the transient times taken from the doepfer website:


time ranges: A D/R
position
range switch: min. max. min. max.
l ~ 0,2 ms ~ 0,2 s ~ 0,5 ms ~ 0,5 s
m ~ 5 ms ~ 5 s ~ 15 ms ~ 10 s
h ~ 30 ms ~ 2 min ~ 100 ms ~ 5 min
e-grad
Yohda wrote:
Quote:
I'm sure the vast majority of ADSRs commercially available are linear.

I'm not sure, but I think the majority of ADSR have Log attack and expo decay and release. smile


Just did my homework: You're right. I'm sorry!
Mr White
Yohda wrote:

Quote:
hmmmh. Ok maybe the vca I use it with is the problem.

It may be a part of the problem, yes, you need a good VCA like the Cwejman with very fast enveloppe.


definitely +1 razz
franzschuier
Okey.. So whats a good vca that is affordable?
bar|none
What about the MFB Dual ADSR?

I have one to unload as well if you are looking used. I have the cwejman ADSR and now the cwejman CTG-VC so covered.

VCAs
A-132-3 is a board favorite.

I like the MFB VCA especially as a first since allows for some nice mixing options.

Don't forget that the QMMG while not cheap double as a bank of VCAs so helps get bang for buck.
e-grad
bar|none wrote:
Don't forget that the QMMG while not cheap double as a bank of VCAs so helps get bang for buck.


He's got a fetish for speed thus a vactrol based VCA would be too sluggish. This is fun!
consumed
a fast vactrol module is not totally out of place in this conversation
i believe that the perception of speed/snappy is the core of this topic, not envelope specs
vactrols can feel very fast even with the ringing
Mr White
afaik vactrols opens very quick.
the ringing have to do only on the release stage, so they ARE snappy.
franzschuier
A new Vca then - ill go for vcma 4mx then.. that will give me some room to.. thnx..

may have to sell the vm-1 to finance it though.. duh
bar|none
that is a good choice....I just thought you were looking for a cheap one. wink
Jari Jokinen
Navs wrote:
The Cwejman VCAs are semi-log (even when it says lin) or exp.

My VCA-2P "lin" is linear. DC to signal input, LFO saw to CV input => no curve.
Navs
Jari Jokinen wrote:
Navs wrote:
The Cwejman VCAs are semi-log (even when it says lin) or exp.

My VCA-2P "lin" is linear. DC to signal input, LFO saw to CV input => no curve.


I just checked my VCA-2P again - you are right Jari.

Thanks for correcting me and sorry for spreading untruths oops

I was unsure about this because in my tests with Silent Way's CV Recover plug-in I could not get accurate results with the VCA-2P in linear mode, whereas using the VCO-2RM's DC-coupled ring mod worked perfectly.

Any ideas why?
Reptil
FYI here's the doepfer page with (easy) mods for faster envelopes. (or slower)
I kept one a-140 just for modding and testing. there's nothing wrong with it AFAIK. The doepfer VCA a-130 and a-131 are not so good, but I'm positive that exchanging the TL062 for some better IC will result in a marked improvement. Very simple circuits, even for a dumbass like me.
An INS-2mx is on the way here, and a MOTM 190 VCA. That'll take care of the "snappy VCA" bit. w00t
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