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DIY Modular Synth Power Supply (sorta)
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, ... 13, 14, 15  Next [all]
Author DIY Modular Synth Power Supply (sorta)
consumed
miminashy--you really need to check out the documentation for your psu so you understand exactly what youre working with. if it did not come with docs, email the company and ask for them and figure out how it works and/or ask. you should not experiment with your psu, its dangerous.

/steps off box and backs away slowly
miminashi
Wahaha, you're right, consumed. Nobody wants to read the end to this story in the Darwin Awards. I'll be extra careful.

The power supply I bought definitely does not provide both positive and negative outputs, and there isn't an obvious grounding point.. I'll have to order another supply. I thought I was being all clever getting a supply with 12v and 5b power...

I was almost ready to throw in the towel and just get a Doepfer DIY kit, but the bus boards are just so damn easy to make and I already have all of the parts I need to complete the PSU so I'll just snag another unit and put this baby to bed.

I'll let you guys know how it works out. Thanks for all of the info.
Roycie Roller
If the psu doesn't supply negative voltage, that would explain the strange behaviour of your filter. Hopefully the place you bought it from has a +/- psu which you can swap with the one you have. Good luck!
Luka
how about taking a bigger picture of the psu so we can have a look see
consumed
well, if its the power one hcc512, it is a dual output PSU that puts out 5v and 12-15v on the second output

http://www.alliedelec.com/Images/Products/Datasheets/BM/POWER-ONE_INC/ POWER-ONE-INC_POWER-PRODUCTS_MFR_2183000.PDF


appropriate candidates for a euro supply in that list include

HAD12-0.4-A
HAA15-0.8-A
HBB15-1.5-A
HCC15-3-A
HDD15-5-A

however, you can also use International Power or Condor brand PSUs with similar specs/model numbers and they're usually a bit cheaper for some reason.

i didnt include the triple supplies although those would work too as long as two of the three outputs put +12v and -12v.

i just recently purchased a bunch of surplus HAA15-0.8-A for $9 each on ebay.
one of them is powering four schroff racks.
the only pain about getting surplus PSUs is that there's old wire and solder already attached to the terminals that need to be cleaned up a bit.
calibration of the psu is also necessary.

miminashi
Luka, here's an image for posterity. Let nobody else make the same mistake I did.


Consumed, I reckon I'm probably gonna pick up one of those HAA15s or something similar. They're just so damn cheap.
whyterabbyt
Would one of the smarter PSU-savvy folks here be able to comment on whether a pair of HCC15-3-A+G (3A+@12V) or a single HDD15-5-A+G (6A+@12V) look about right to run a DIY 4x9U euro setup, and what 'gotchas' there might be.

My current setup is in 4x6U, with 3x1.2A and 1x650mA, and I reckon its got about 30% headroom on each of the 1200mA Doepfer supplies, so thats what Im basing my expectations on.

http://www.alliedelec.com/Images/Products/DataSheets/BM/CONDOR/744-006 4.pdf
Luka
i have never used a unit like that, i've just built raw psu modules and wired up torroid tansformers

is that thing just a transformer, or a psu as well

if it is just a transformer you would have to get a higher voltage one to use 12V as you regulate down to 12v from 15v or so. well that is how it works for me with the flow i know, though i know only what i have picked up around the cloud.

in regards to amp you should read that other thread on module draw and calcutate the draw of your moduels in milliamp and just make sure that it is more than that and what you percieve to fit into in the future.
Muff Wiggler
Sean you are gonna need some serious power for all that euro space you've just acquired!!

I've got four of the 3U Schroff racks, and a 3.4amp supply... i think it's going to be VERY close.... I only have a handful of modules, but I've looked at all the ones I want to buy, and an (only slightly conservative estimate) says I should plan roughly about 600-800ma per 3U rack.

If I'm lucky the 3400ma will cover four of the 3U racks.... if I'm unlucky it won't. Some of the more power hungry modules could easily push you to 1000ma per 3U rack. I guess this probably won't happen over 4 racks in a row, so if one of them adds up to 1000, the next one may well add up to 600... but if you budget 600-800 per rack, unless you are buying only the most power hungry modules, you should definately be OK with some headroom I think

not an 'exact science answer' I know, but I do hope it'll be helpful
neandrewthal
A while back I got a 5 amp power one from ebay for $17.

After reading this thread I can't believe I did that shit(with a lot less precaution too) and my family and I are still alive meh

I heatshrinked the connections on mine, but it doesn't help much because the transformer has extra pins that have to be jumpered to the ones I'm soldering to, so the empty(and live!) pins are still exposed. I could heat-shrink those too, but the jumper would still be exposed(and the area of the pins below the jumper)
Muff Wiggler
neandrewthal wrote:
5 amp power one from ebay for $17


eek! holy crap, now that's a score!!

and we're glad you didn't fry anyone Dead Banana
whyterabbyt
Muff Wiggler wrote:
Sean you are gonna need some serious power for all that euro space you've just acquired!!


Well, its only 12U more than Ive got filled at present, and Im easily managing that with a total of about 4A of PSU. I really do think the Doepfer 1.2A supplies have got a fair bit of headroom supplies for my setup.

Quote:
I've got four of the 3U Schroff racks, and a 3.4amp supply... i think it's going to be VERY close.... I only have a handful of modules, but I've looked at all the ones I want to buy, and an (only slightly conservative estimate) says I should plan roughly about 600-800ma per 3U rack.


What kind of modules are you talking about? Ive just calc'd the average power draw of the Doepfer, Harvestman, and Bananalogue modules in your tables, and it comes to less than 45mA per module.
Maybe PlanB and Livewire are heavy, but there's no figures for them... but checking the modularplanner, the highest draw for a PlanB is 100mA, and thats an 18HP wide module.

Ive also just done a mockup of most (ie about 21U out of 24U) of my current rig on the modularplanner site, and it sums the total draw to less than 2A, plus another 150mA for my Z5000. Thats still about 12-15% less than a pair of Doepfer 1200mA supplies would provide...

Quote:
If I'm lucky the 3400ma will cover four of the 3U racks.... if I'm unlucky it won't.


Heaviest draw euro modules I can see in your tables come in about 150-200mA, but they're all wide. A107 draws 200mA, but you can only get 3 in 84HP width... dont know what something like the AFG might be, but again you could only get 3 in a 3U rack...

Maybe its because Ive got a lot of Doepfer gear instead of 'boutique' kit, but my total still includes 3 BBD modules, Malgorithm, Polivoks, Time Sefari & SOT, Z5000, and Plan B Model 11 and 12 filters...

I mean, my basic A100 came with a 650mA supply. Im actually pretty convinced two 3.4A supplies would be extreme overkill; thats at least 4A more than my current 24U setup draws...
whyterabbyt
no thoughts/corrections for my figures? :(
wetterberg
neandrewthal wrote:
A while back I got a 5 amp power one from ebay for $17.

After reading this thread I can't believe I did that shit(with a lot less precaution too) and my family and I are still alive meh

I heatshrinked the connections on mine, but it doesn't help much because the transformer has extra pins that have to be jumpered to the ones I'm soldering to, so the empty(and live!) pins are still exposed. I could heat-shrink those too, but the jumper would still be exposed(and the area of the pins below the jumper)
Get a piece of sheet metal, or even better some plexiglass, and make a frame/cover for it. If you're shrinkwrapping things I assume you have a heat gun, right? Then acrylic/plexiglass/"perspex", for sure.
consumed
whyterabbyt wrote:
no thoughts/corrections for my figures? :(


probably not. im powering four schroff racks from a 1a power one supply just fine, so im not sure what muff is putting in his rig, but that current draw is possible if he's using lots of digital.
Muff Wiggler
sorry for the delay, took a couple of days offline to work on other things and i have some catching up to do....

yeah Sean, I think you are right actually.... which is good news as that means I'll have more than enough power for my rack.

On the other hand, my estimate is close over the short run - I just went over 700ma of usage, and I just went onto my second rack, so i'm just under 700 for one.

But, I don't think this trend will hold, and it will average out lower per-rack once I get more filled. I have a lof of heavy pullers in this first rack - Z5000, Tyme Sefari + Expansion, etc.

So yeah, it depends on what you get in there - and you're right that with something like an AFG you can only get three in a rack anyway. Maybe 500-600ma per rack is a more workable estimate and still giving some headroom.

I'll keep this thread updated as I fill up my four rows - we'll see how it goes.
whyterabbyt
thanks guys, i was starting to think i'd missed something pretty serious out with my estimations. electrickals aint my string point...
fonik
hello guys,
my first post here, so be kind...

if you wanted to use a power one PSU (which is a good choice, i think), don't forget to wire the sensing terminals to provide (remote-)sensing of the PSU.
this will guarantee the same regulated voltage output, no matter how much current is drawn by your modules. otherwise the output voltage could drop, depending on how much current is drawn, each module that you add to you modular could influence the output voltage of the PSU (this may influence the tuning of the VCOs).

so connect the sensing terminals to the corresponding output terminals. connect your power bus/distribution board direct to the output terminals, not the sensing terminals.

cheers,
matthias
JohnLRice
fonik wrote:
hello guys,
my first post here, so be kind...

if you wanted to use a power one PSU (which is a good choice, i think), don't forget to wire the sensing terminals to provide (remote-)sensing of the PSU.
this will guarantee the same regulated voltage output, no matter how much current is drawn by your modules. otherwise the output voltage could drop, depending on how much current is drawn, each module that you add to you modular could influence the output voltage of the PSU (this may influence the tuning of the VCOs).

so connect the sensing terminals to the corresponding output terminals. connect your power bus/distribution board direct to the output terminals, not the sensing terminals.

cheers,
matthias


Awesome matthias, thanks for the info! When I put my DIY PS together about a month ago I was wondering about this. I saw some pictures where people left those terminal unconnected and I saw some pictures, on Synthesizers.com (http://www.synthesizers.com/q101.html), where it looks like they are all connected together or something.

I kept meaning to ask but I was a frightened noob so I just gave it my best guess and it 'seemed' to work.

I'll have to study up on this and make the nessesary changes.

Thanks again and WELCOME!!!! hihi

John L Rice

PS - this is how my PowerOne supply is wired at the moment . . .
fonik
here is a link to my site. here you will probably find some good info on the power one supplies (i am using some HAA15-0.8):

http://www.modular.fonik.de/Page24.html
Muff Wiggler
Matthias, thanks so much for joining up and posting! Greatly appreciated. The slideshow on your webpage was a big motivator for me to do this project! Thanks 8)

One question - I have not heard about these sensing terminals at all! Thank-you for bringing this up. I did not receive any information or manual with my power supply, I'm wondering if you would be able to tell from the photo below what I would have to do to hook up the sensing terminals



thanks!

cheers
fonik
connect the sensing terminals to the respective voltage outputs (-S to-OUT and +S to +OUT). conenct both return sensing terminals to COM (-S RTN and +S RTN to COM).

without any warranty! sorry.
Muff Wiggler
fonik wrote:
connect the sensing terminals to the respective voltage outputs (-S to-OUT and +S to +OUT). conenct both return sensing terminals to COM (-S RTN and +S RTN to COM).


Fantastic! I misread those as "5" and not "S"...I thought they were part of the 5v power sytem. Shows how little I know!

This is simple, thanks VERY much for bringing this up

fonik wrote:
without any warranty! sorry.



of course 8) and "at my own risk" as well

thank-you sir!
fonik
Muff Wiggler wrote:
Fantastic! I misread those as "5" and not "S"...I thought they were part of the 5v power sytem.

should this PSU output 5V? i can see two trimmers. so i'd thought this would be a dual output supply?
Muff Wiggler
well, i was kinda confused about that....

the two trimmers are for the + and - sides, I had to trim both sides down from 15v when I received the supply

there is text on the back of the PSU about jumpering such-and-such for 5v usage, so I thought perhaps it used the different posts to send 5v... i do not actually think it's a dual ouput supply

as you can see, i'm a total n00b with power supplies oops

this makes way more sense now, thanks again!

luckily i've only hooked up a few modules and haven't had any problem with the power, but i'm going to re-do things and hook up those sensing terminals later today. It would have never occured to me if you hadn't made that post - I've never heard of 'sensing' before in my life!

thanks
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