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[OUT OF STOCK. NEW STOCK - JANUARY 2018.] L-1 Power System.
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY  
Author [OUT OF STOCK. NEW STOCK - JANUARY 2018.] L-1 Power System.
L-1
The power is ready. Works correct.

FULL KITS !!!! thumbs up

http://l-1.su/Power.html

12V linear bipolar adjustable power system for Eurorack synthesizers.
- 115/230V switchable.
- 1.5A per rail maximum output without ripples and noise.
- low voltage dropout under load. LDO regulators used.
- less heat because 13.7V 60VA transformer used.
- 2A fuse in the outlet.
- 1.85A thermofuses after the transformer on each rail.
- precise trimmable in range +-0.5V
- PCBs are gold platted, 2mm thickness, maximum possible thick foil layer 105mkm.
- two options: with 25mm height and 50mm height heatsinks.
- all wiring on headers. Different types possible: MTA-156 (included), spades, with screws, IDE ribbons.
- 5V regulator on busboards.


Full kits include everything for build as pictured. Full specification will post later.

Prices:

Complete kit: PSU + two busboards - $165 + $25 shipping.

PSU kit - $95 + $20 shipping.

Two busboards kit - $70 + $10 shipping.

Bare board (PSU or bus) - $30 + shipping $5 first, $2 for every additional.

L-1




































--
L-1
MEASUREMENTS.

I tested the device with 15V 50VA transformer under 8 hours at 10 Ohm load (1.2A at the out). Room temperature was 25°C, heatsinks temperature was stable between 80-85°C. Regulators max working temperature is 125°C.
Temperature with 13.5V transformer must be lower. But now I have on hands only 30VA one which easy holds 11 Ohm load without overloading, ripple and noise.

Testing setup:



Also I tested all PSUs I have. It's Cwejman, Doepfer and MFOS. The aim was to have better performance.

I used DSO-5200 USB scope with battery powered notebook to have less internal noise.

Scope's self noise, probes shorted to ground:


No load. V+ 12.000V, V- 12.000V



20 Ohm load. V+ 11.999V, V- 11.997V



11 Ohm load. V+ 11.995V, V- 11.989V



10 Ohm load. V+ 11.994, V- 11.980V



8 Ohm load V+ 11.994, V- 11.975V

lamouette/rck
Hum looks good !

Is this dual input 120/240V ?
puzo
cool, be very interested in full kit, power, components, switch the lot cheers
JohnLRice
Looks nice! thumbs up
L-1
I will not show my measurements of Doepfer and Cwejman PSUs. If somebody want can measure themselves.
But I show my measurements of MFOS PSU which I built myself using MSOF schematic and board layout.

PSU itself works veru good - very low noise and dropout but not enough power.

20 Ohm load. V+ 11.926, V- 11.958



11 Ohm load. V+ flows between 11.700 - 11.830, V- flows between 11.620 - 11.700
It can't hold even 11 Ohm load, it's 1.05A at the out. It what I see on all LM317 based PSUs I've checked.

ubiquiphilia
looks good.
NS4W
Looks nice, only thing that concerns me is the uncovered access to mains voltage, shouldn't there be some sort of metal case around the high voltage stuff?

People will be poking around with cables and connectors and then suddenly Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana
L-1
NS4W wrote:
Looks nice, only thing that concerns me is the uncovered access to mains voltage, shouldn't there be some sort of metal case around the high voltage stuff?

People will be poking around with cables and connectors and then suddenly Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana


High voltage is isolated everywhere at top. Only at bottom side of the board it is unisolated.

But anyway:

Danger! High voltage! Do not touch powered device!

Mattson Mini Modular
L-1
lamouette/rck wrote:
Hum looks good !

Is this dual input 120/240V ?


There are jumpers on the board for that.
L-1
possible connectors:







L-1
Outlet:

L-1
As transformer mounted:



woodster
thumbs up
I'm definitely interested.
Could do with two for a monster case I'm considering...
home_listening
LM1084?
latigid on
Nice project but I'm a bit concerned with the temperature.

85 degrees might be fine on the bench, but inside a full case with no airflow? Some external heat transfer (holes) or even a fan might be needed. The Doepfer PSU2 has what looks like bigger heatsinks for the same current output. I'd also worry about the lifetime of capacitors in the vicinity of this temperature.
L-1
home_listening wrote:
LM1084?


I tried first. It worked with 13.5V transformer if to install tantalum caps and schottky diodes in bridge.
These new ones don't need tantalums and work with regular diodes.
L-1
latigid on wrote:
Nice project but I'm a bit concerned with the temperature.

85 degrees might be fine on the bench, but inside a full case with no airflow? Some external heat transfer (holes) or even a fan might be needed. The Doepfer PSU2 has what looks like bigger heatsinks for the same current output. I'd also worry about the lifetime of capacitors in the vicinity of this temperature.


Doepfer PSU 2 is it?



It doesn't hold this 10 Ohm load.

Working temperature of capacitors is up to 105°C and they doesn't heat up to 85°C like heatsinks.

Also bigger heatsinks can be used for massive load. Next high with this footprint is 36mm.

These measurements were with 15V transformer. I'm going to supply with 13.5V one. Power dissipation with 13.5V one will be much lower. Now I have only 30VA, so can't check it with big load. 11Ohm or 1.05A at the out is what this 30VA holds.
latigid on
Okay smile Interested in the new measurements with a lower input voltage. Also if you can check the working temperature inside a wooden box.
L-1
latigid on wrote:
Okay smile Interested in the new measurements with a lower input voltage. Also if you can check the working temperature inside a wooden box.


I measured with 30VA 13.5V transformer under 11Ohm load or 1.05A at the out.
Heatsinks temperature after 30 minutes stabilized at 48.5°C. I have room temperature 25°C, no drafts, all door and window closed. It's not hot, you can easy hold a finger on it. Continue test further smile


This is what I had on this Doepfer PSU under this 11Ohm load. V+ about 10.5V flows, V- about - 10.4V flows. It is with big 50VA transformer.
Hum.. 0.5V loud...
LoFi Junglist
Are you selling this as a DIY kit, and not a finished product, to avoid safety certification and to ensure your small Business doesn't need product liability insurance?

This is the third DIY Power supply, along with Erica Synths and J3RK's, that would Bankrupt a small business owner in Australia & New Zealand pretty quickly, for failing to get the mandatory safety approval for an electrical product. Any Synth-Distributor selling these in Australia or New Zealand would also be fined.

This is a lawsuit waiting to happen, and no clauses like "buyer excepts responsibility" or "must be installed by a qualified technician" would avoid it:
L-1
LoFi Junglist wrote:
Are you selling this as a DIY kit, and not a finished product, to avoid safety certification and to ensure your small Business doesn't need product liability insurance?

This is the third DIY Power supply, along with Erica Synths and J3RK's, that would Bankrupt a small business owner in Australia & New Zealand pretty quickly, for failing to get the mandatory safety approval for an electrical product. Any Synth-Distributor selling these in Australia or New Zealand would also be fined.

This is a lawsuit waiting to happen, and no clauses like "buyer excepts responsibility" or "must be installed by a qualified technician" would avoid it:



OK, I re-routed transformers pins. Now PTR-500 connectors are possible.

Don't see any more differeces between mine and Doepfer's. Transformers ins made there on spades, outs are soldered to board.



Nantonos
Alex, thanks for posting these measurements. There have been a couple of other PSU projects announced recently, I asked whether the announced current rating was nominal, peak or steady and got evasive answers. Asked what the ripple was at 80% load and got zero answers.

So you posted my answers without my having to ask!

In summary, the 15V/50VA provides a steady-state 1.5A. It remains in regulation, as you showed, at 0% 40% 73% 80% and 100% of rated load. Voltage stayed constant (worst case was -11.975 on full load compared to -12.000V unloaded) and ripple stayed close to the baseline scope measurement at below 2mV rms. That is a great result!

I share the concern about 85°C in free air being a bit high; you also gave a result for a 13.5V/30A (so, 1.1A steady if the 13.5/60VA is rated 2.2A steady) with a more reasonable 48.5°C in free air. (It will be higher inside a case).

You also demonstrated the futility of rules of thumb like "80% load will be fine". The MFOS nominal 1.5A supply dropping out of regulation somewhere between 40% and 73% load and the Doepfer PSU2 nominal 1.2A dropping out somewhere below 91% (difficult to say much from a single measurement).

I'm glad you didn't go the marketingese route (3A nominal, and that is on both rails so hey, buy the L-1 6A power supply!!!!) but instead went for solid measured results. Other companies offering power supplies could usefully do the same measurements on their own stuff (unless they are knowingly selling tech with poor results, of course).

There are aspects of the design I don't like. The 120V/240V jumpers use uninsulated wire. That seems dangerous. I would have prefered to see an insulated rotary switch on the inlet, or insulated links on the PCB.

Ribbon cable seems a poor choice for bus to PSU connection (but I see you also offer a screw terminal option). I would have preferred to see multiple spade/faston connections for the +12V, 0V, and -12V outputs. Otherwise people are tempted to daisy-chain from one busboard to another. The 0V return needs to be low impedance.

And I would have expected larger heatsinks (but like your approach of measuring temperature rise rather than guessing/hoping).

I see you plan to use a 13.5V/60VA transformer to give a constant-load 2.2A supply, with lower heat dissipation due to dropping less voltage in the regulators. That seems a good approach, provided regulation and ripple is as good as your earlier results. I look forward to seeing the measurements when you have the new transformer available.
Nantonos
Nantonos wrote:

There are aspects of the design I don't like. The 120V/240V jumpers use uninsulated wire. That seems dangerous. I would have prefered to see an insulated rotary switch on the inlet, or insulated links on the PCB.


You fixed that while I was posting! applause
L-1
I've read in medical electric equipment standards, air distances 250V for user safety is 2mm.
This is 2mm square I drew in the center.

L-1
I've unwound several winds from 15V 50VA transformer which gave 16.5V on free running. Made it 15V on free run or 13.5V under load.

Now under dual 10 Ohm load or 1.2A at the out, heatsinks are stable at 63-65°C. I tested during one hour, the temperature was stable. It's 20°C less than was with 15V trans. and about half what regulators can hold (125°C).
L-1
Nantonos wrote:

Ribbon cable seems a poor choice for bus to PSU connection (but I see you also offer a screw terminal option). I would have preferred to see multiple spade/faston connections for the +12V, 0V, and -12V outputs. Otherwise people are tempted to daisy-chain from one busboard to another. The 0V return needs to be low impedance.


I made pads for spades.
Now spades, MTA-156, PTR-500, PTR-300, ribbons are possible. The same as on my busboards.
slow_riot
230VAC is enough to stop a human heart, it should not be exposed anywhere. Those screw terminals are a disaster waiting to happen.

What system in is place to establish a proper system ground with provision for earth for safety and RFI screening?
L-1
OK
I made the board a bit longer, now 180mm, and rerouted for MTA-156 connectors. They have:
Voltage Rating—600 vac
Current Rating—12.5 amp max. on a single circuit.




230 - 115V jumpers will look so:

230V:




115V:

L-1
I've tested with 50VA 13.5V transformer at dual 8 Ohm load, it's 2 x 1.5A at the out.
This is near maximum value 1.65A at the out which this transformer can give.
PSU worked good but transformer started to produce ripples after 30-40 minutes.
Heatsinks was 57°C, it's colder than was with 10 Ohm load because of bigger dropout at the transformer.
The hottest parts were transformer 65°C and diodes 80°C.

I hope 60VA transformer will hold this load without ripples.
For 50VA I would recommend not more as 2 x 1.3A at the out.


mechie
I look forward to this kit, I think I have uses for a couple of these, the mains termination doesn't bother me at all, it's my day job.
BUT...
I do think there could be issues with this for some with less experience:-

The copper tracks could easily be covered with a square of fibreglass under the transformer, easy and cheap - even a bit of CD case would suffice.

This voltage selector worries me - if the mains is turned on with this selector unplugged there will be bare pins at mains voltage.
I wonder how many will ever need to swap from 110v to 240v so often that this is worth the effort? maybe just simple solder pads for the transformer tails to be soldered to would suffice, set at construction time and probably never seen again?
Sorry, just not a big fan of mains connectors that aren't required (hides)
L-1
mechie wrote:
I look forward to this kit, I think I have uses for a couple of these, the mains termination doesn't bother me at all, it's my day job.
BUT...
I do think there could be issues with this for some with less experience:-

The copper tracks could easily be covered with a square of fibreglass under the transformer, easy and cheap - even a bit of CD case would suffice.

This voltage selector worries me - if the mains is turned on with this selector unplugged there will be bare pins at mains voltage.
I wonder how many will ever need to swap from 110v to 240v so often that this is worth the effort? maybe just simple solder pads for the transformer tails to be soldered to would suffice, set at construction time and probably never seen again?
Sorry, just not a big fan of mains connectors that aren't required (hides)



This is a prototype which I made on DIY board.
Final boards will be factory made and look like this:



No need to unplug this selector under voltage.
mechie
L-1 wrote:

No need to unplug this selector under voltage.

I agree - but COULD it be done?

I am told that, as a toddler, I pushed a knitting needle into a 240v mains socket and then sucked the end Dead Banana I now have frizzy hair.
COULD it be done?

I have a couple of your PCBs - excellent stuff, if a cover PCB like that for the vocoder set were made to hide the mains copper tracks I think it would be much safer for the masses.

As I said, I feel confident with my construction skills but some may be on their first build with this.

ps. struggling with slow connection today - keep losing Muff's site connection cry
L-1
If you look at PCB picture you will see three MTA-156 headers at the left.
The bottom one - input from main voltage.
The top one - to transformer.
The middle one - for jumpers 115-230V which will be done so:



Output from transformers secondaries - at right of transformer.


Yes, boards will be as usually from me 2mm black/gold. Like for the Vocoder, even better.
latigid on
Presumably the boards will also have a stop mask, meaning the only exposed mains will be on solder points. Short of surface mount connectors or buried traces there's a limit as to how intrinsically safe a self assembled PCB can be.

Another option is to directly connect the primary winding to the mains switch/ power connector. That way all joints can be made with insulated plugs.
rosch
Usually you don't solder stranded wire with mains. Best way would be spade connectors on the board and female insulated plugs, so IF a cable goes off it cannot make contact to anything. Also good if there is a way to fix the cable to the board (with a cable tie through a hole for example) so they cannot move even if the trafo burns out.
Idk, trafo on board isn't my taste too but that's probably just taste.
L-1
I've already made new prototype with completely isolated main voltage. Only need to make photos. Will show tomorrow. thumbs up
mechie
L-1 wrote:
I've already made new prototype with completely isolated main voltage. Only need to make photos. Will show tomorrow. thumbs up

OK, so the forum is back from an unexpected holiday...
Is it time to "show and tell" yet? I'm keen to see this come to life hyper
Cat-A-Tonic
Can we order full kits for the 15V version?
J3RK
I recommend using these power inlets for my PSU. They handle the 240/120 switching internally. You open the fuse drawer, flip it over, and you're done. Nothing on the PSU board itself. You can get filtered and non-filtered types.

http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?vendor=0&keywords=PS0SXDS60
spacedog
I am interested in the "Only PSU kit".
mechie
J3RK wrote:
I recommend using these power inlets for my PSU. They handle the 240/120 switching internally. You open the fuse drawer, flip it over, and you're done. Nothing on the PSU board itself. You can get filtered and non-filtered types.

http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?vendor=0&keywords=PS0SXDS60


Looks like an easy optional 'upgrade' for this project - personally I will still be building for a fixed voltage.
spacedog
Is this project still alive?
On 30 January 2015 at 01:32 i tried to order:

Only PSU kit. Everything which needed to build as pictured include transformer.
Prepay in January price - $68 + $20 shipping.


...but no reply. waah
L-1
spacedog wrote:
Is this project still alive?
On 30 January 2015 at 01:32 i tried to order:

Only PSU kit. Everything which needed to build as pictured include transformer.
Prepay in January price - $68 + $20 shipping.


...but no reply. waah



Were not enough orders to make it real.
I will collect my own money to buy everything. No pre-pay discounts in this case.
Will promise nothing about time and dates. Will see.
spacedog
Good luck!
mechie
L-1 wrote:
Were not enough orders to make it real.

This is a great shame, a chance to get a rock-steady PSU with a good current capability and so little interest hmmm.....
Nantonos
I see post 2 was updated with new prices.

Is the spade output option still available?
L-1
Nantonos wrote:
I see post 2 was updated with new prices.

Is the spade output option still available?



The prices are the same, I just removed pre-pay discounts.

Yes. Spades are possible.
mechie
L-1 wrote:
The prices are the same, I just removed pre-pay discounts.

Still hoping this happens, I requested two PSU only kits via the link earlier in this project thread, I just want to confirm I'm still in for two kits hyper
L-1
mechie wrote:
L-1 wrote:
The prices are the same, I just removed pre-pay discounts.

Still hoping this happens, I requested two PSU only kits via the link earlier in this project thread, I just want to confirm I'm still in for two kits hyper



I hope the new VCO sales give me possibility to order everything for PSU.
hirada
Not sure wether this makes any sense business wise, but as an idea as I'd be interested just in the rectifier/regulation part on a therefore smaller PCB, as I'd like to put the tranformer in an outbound case and carry the 15V/AC over speakon/powercon. For heat, but more so for space reasons.

So if such a module could become a bypass product, even with requiring a different PCB, maybe chances for more orders and therefore realisation are rising?

Or am I the only one? Agagin, just an idea as currently I am planning to realize this setup with the Doepfer DIY Kit PSU (without the switched PSU, which I'll plan to replace with an torrodial transformer), but I guess I'd prefer your design, if available. And be it just because of your larger capacitors lol
Egor
so these are available now, or still a future possibility?

do they have a 5v rail?
L-1
5V on bussboards. Everyone can install if needed or not install this.

I'm still collecting money to order everything. This project is more expensive than others because I want full kits. Need to order at least 100 transformers. Boards are expensive too because they are big and I want more thick foil layer and solder mask.

Please wait. I think a couple of months, not faster..
tekzon
Is this project still alive?

thanks
L-1
tekzon wrote:
Is this project still alive?

thanks



Very very soon. Check the forum end of this week. thumbs up
L-1
The power is ready. Works correct.

FULL KITS !!!! thumbs up

I will take orders next week, then will go till end of August.
So order now or in September.

12V linear bipolar adjustable power system for Eurorack synthesizers.
- 115/230V switchable.
- 1.5A per rail maximum output without ripples and noise.
- low voltage dropout under load. LDO regulators used.
- less heat because 13.7V 60VA transformer used.
- 2A fuse in the outlet.
- 1.85A thermofuses after the transformer on each rail.
- precise trimmable in range +-0.5V
- PCBs are gold platted, 2mm thickness, maximum possible thick foil layer 105mkm.
- two options: with 25mm height and 50mm height heatsinks.
- all wiring on headers. Different types possible: MTA-156 (included), spades, with screws, IDE ribbons.
- 5V regulator on busboards.


Full kits include everything for build as pictured. Full specification will post later.

Prices:

Complete kit: PSU + two busboards - $165 + $25 shipping.

PSU kit - $95 + $20 shipping.

Two busboards kit - $70 + $10 shipping.

Bare board (PSU or bus) - $30 + shipping $5 first, $2 for every additional.

L-1




































--
Amer1231
will you ship to europ or is this stricktly in the us?
Rigo
Amer1231 wrote:
will you ship to europ or is this stricktly in the us?

Since he actually is in Europe, I'd think that he will ship to Europe hihi
L-1
Geographic center of Europe is in Belarus. hihi

Here:

infradead
L-1 wrote:
Geographic center of Europe is in Belarus. hihi

Here:



learned two things today. hihi
Amer1231
i thought since because the prices are in usd waah waah
mechie
mechie wrote:
L-1 wrote:
The prices are the same, I just removed pre-pay discounts.

Still hoping this happens, I requested two PSU only kits via the link earlier in this project thread, I just want to confirm I'm still in for two kits hyper


PSU kit - $95 + $20 shipping applause
I wish to place an order for THREE PSU only kits, 50mm heatsinks if the option is available - big boxes, lots of room!
L-1
mechie wrote:
mechie wrote:
L-1 wrote:
The prices are the same, I just removed pre-pay discounts.

Still hoping this happens, I requested two PSU only kits via the link earlier in this project thread, I just want to confirm I'm still in for two kits hyper


PSU kit - $95 + $20 shipping applause
I wish to place an order for THREE PSU only kits, 50mm heatsinks if the option is available - big boxes, lots of room!


I think to complete big heatsinks with 2A thermofuses instead of 1.85A, but not have them on hands now. Will visit tomorrow the shop. If buy, will put them, if no - 1.85A then.

You can pay, will ship Thursday. Shipping for 3 PSU only kits will be $40.
L-1
Two busboards kit includes:

Two PCBs


24 16-pin IDE headers


32 standoffs


33 nuts, 34 washers, 1 screw


two 4-pin MTA-156 headers


1 voltage regulator L7808 + heatsink


two 22uF and one 100n capacitors


two 1K and four 4.7K resistors


two red, two green, two yellow LEDs
L-1
PSU kit includes:

PCB


transformer 60VA = 2 x 13.7V x 2.2A


transformer mounting set


outlet


fuse 2A


two LD1084 voltage regulators


two heatsinks - 25mm height or 50mm height - at your choise


two 1.85A thermofuses


8 capacitors 4700uF


two capacitors 100uF


two capacitors 10uF


four capacitors 0.1uF


8 diodes 1N5408


4 diodes 1N4007


two trimpots 100 Ohm


two 240 Ohm, two 2K, two 4.7K, two 10K resistors


one red and one yellow LEDs


three 3-pin and three 4-pin MTA-156 headers


6 standoffs 8mm


8 nuts, 8 washers, two screws M3, two washers, two screws M2.5


1.2m wire and a bit of shrink tube
mechie
L-1 wrote:

You can pay

Paypal to info[at]greenexpo.by ?
L-1
mechie wrote:
L-1 wrote:

You can pay

Paypal to info[at]greenexpo.by ?


Yes thumbs up
mechie
L-1 wrote:
mechie wrote:
L-1 wrote:

You can pay

Paypal to info[at]greenexpo.by ?


Yes thumbs up

Done! (sort of) - Paypal website playing silly buggers at the moment - refusing to let me select an address - hope message got through with payment hmmm.....
sixty_n
Hope my payment got through ok too. I sent it late last night paypal friends & family for a full power & busboards kit (Tim, Glasgow UK)
L-1
sixty_n wrote:
Hope my payment got through ok too. I sent it late last night paypal friends & family for a full power & busboards kit (Tim, Glasgow UK)


I sent you an email with tracking, Tim.
sixty_n
got the tracking, thanks a lot and thanks for sending it out so quick
L-1
Looks better with some tuning from L-1.



L-1
No shipping till end of August. I'm out of office. but will be online, answer emails and forum. Rasta-nana Rasta-nana Rasta-nana

Tomorrow Monday is the last day I can ship. Next shipping 1 September.
mechie
mechie wrote:
Done! (sort of) - Paypal website playing silly buggers at the moment - refusing to let me select an address - hope message got through with payment hmmm.....


Box of bits just landed - now I have power to spare - mwhaa haaa haaa
Thanks, beautiful PCBs as always, and packed to survive even the UK customs system applause
fragletrollet
Could this be used for 15V/MOTM? Or is there another psu in the works?
sixty_n
just reporting a successful build of the psu and boards. Everything is working correctly and it seems rock solid. Thanks a lot L-1!
L-1
sixty_n wrote:
just reporting a successful build of the psu and boards. Everything is working correctly and it seems rock solid. Thanks a lot L-1!


Glad to read this! applause

i'm currently assembling a bunch of the power Systems for MDR Modular (Moscow) https://www.facebook.com/mdr.modular
L-1
fragletrollet wrote:
Could this be used for 15V/MOTM? Or is there another psu in the works?


That is theoretically possible but another transformer is needed.
I used custom made 13.7V transformer to minimize heat.
These heatsinks may be too smal for standart 18V transformer to have 15V out.
L-1
230 - 115V jumpers

230V:




115V:

L-1
Drill map.





http://l-1.su/images/power/L_1_Power_drill_map.cdr



http://l-1.su/images/power/L_1_Power_drill_map.ai


http://l-1.su/images/power/L_1_Power_drill_map.png
Dima-D
"L-1 power" in the interior )
L-1
Transformer connections:

Kirr
Can it be configured for 100V input voltage? (Or is it possible to otherwise get a 100V version?)

Does the transformer hum audibly?
L-1
Kirr wrote:
Can it be configured for 100V input voltage? (Or is it possible to otherwise get a 100V version?)

Does the transformer hum audibly?



Transformer will hum only if you overload it. More than 2.2A per rail. But there are 1.85A thermofuses which not allow this.

I'm affraid 100V will be not enough for this transformer to have enough voltage at the out.

Maybe standart 115V in 15V out transformer can give 13.7V at the out from 100V input. But I didn't checked this.
Kirr
Thank you for reply, L-1. Pity about 100V, as this PSU looks great otherwise.
L-1
Just replaced Doepfer power with L-1. Now I have:

- more Ampers
- 5V rail powered
- shrouded headers
- looks nicer!


atte
I'm interrested in this!

Are they still in stock?

How many modules can be connected to one bus board? Can I use doepfer busboards with it (I have two doepfer busboards already, and if I later need busboards and you stopped supply, other options would be good)?
L-1
atte wrote:
I'm interrested in this!

Are they still in stock?

How many modules can be connected to one bus board? Can I use doepfer busboards with it (I have two doepfer busboards already, and if I later need busboards and you stopped supply, other options would be good)?


Yes in stock. Have full kits and assembled.

How many modules depend on their power consumption. I would not recommend more than 1.5A per rail. 1.85A thermofuses on the PSU. Transformer is rated 2.2A.
Usually 2-3 busses.

The PSU has possibility to instal different types of connectors to connect busses. Doepfer type spades are possible too.
But I complete kits with MTA-156 connectors.

No, I never will stop supply! SlayerBadger!
atte
L-1 wrote:

How many modules depend on their power consumption. I would not recommend more than 1.5A per rail. 1.85A thermofuses on the PSU. Transformer is rated 2.2A.
Usually 2-3 busses.

I was referring to the number of physical connections on each bus board, how many actual connections for power cables are on each busboards?

A bit confused about those numbers, though. Recomended 1.5A is easy to grasp. Still does that mean I should not do the usual math of only going 80% of max, taking 1.5A as max? 1.5A is around 80% of 1.8A, so is that the 80% safe margin taken care of there, meaning I should happily go to 1.5A?

What happens if I go over 1.8A (not that I plan to), would I just blow a fuse, and if so would that be something I can easily replace myself. What should I make of the 2.2A of the transformer, especially if the fuses will stop me at 1.8A?

L-1 wrote:

The PSU has possibility to instal different types of connectors to connect busses. Doepfer type spades are possible too.

Nice! Would I need a special cable to connect my old doepfer bus boards?

EDIT:
Additional question:
Supposed I get four busboards (and watch my power usage), how do they attach to the PSU? Do they daisy chain or are there four connectors available on the PSU?
L-1
12 connectors per bus. Also there are 2 spare places (horizontally).

If you go over 1.85A, then thermofuses will turn off the circuit. It may happens earlier if bad ventillation or hot surrounding.

Install spades and use Doepfer cable.
(I don't install spades on assembled by me PSUs because don't have them).

Two busses can be connected direct to PSU, other chain to busses.
atte
Thanks for the replies! One (hopefully last) question:

L-1 wrote:
If you go over 1.85A, then thermofuses will turn off the circuit.

So will they blow (so I have to replace them) or simple turn off the curcuit and be ready for me again, if I turn things off and let them cool?

I realize it's not supposed to happen, and I'm not planning on pushing things, would just like to know what to expect!
L-1
No they don't blow, they start to work when temperature decreases.
Thermofuses contain special polymer inside which conducts when solid but when it melts, it stop to conduct, and start again when harden.
atte
Amazing! Thanks for the reply! I just found my new PSU!

You got mail w00t
L-1
atte wrote:
Amazing! Thanks for the reply! I just found my new PSU!

You got mail w00t


Good choice thumbs up
atte
Is there a build manual available somewhere?
L-1
atte wrote:
Is there a build manual available somewhere?



There are high voltage and possible big current. Therefore no manual for beginners. It's for builders which have some experience.

How to connect transformer and jumpers - look a bit above. Other parts are clearly marked on the boards. Also I posted many photos how everything must be.

I can only add few tricks - how I make in my builds:

1. Clean boards from flux especially between regulators pin . It's obligatory because board can be pretty hot at big load, and flux can burn and become conductive.

2. Isolate high voltages. I use insulation tape, then warm with hot air, then make second layer, then third.

3. Place washers between heatsinks and board.





atte
Thanks!

Looked at it briefly, seems pretty straight-forward, I'll ask if in doubt w00t
PK808370
These look great! I can't wait for my pair of them to arrive smile I'll be replacing one Doepfer kit and using the second to power my L-1 Vocoder and some other items. For me, this is ideal because the line voltage comes to the case, so I don't have to carry an external brick to play out. Both of these are going in my 12u carry case.
PK808370
atte, I really like your music! I started listening to it while writing the previous post. Thanks for sharing it.
atte
L-1 wrote:


Quick question: why is there only installed voltage regulator + heat sink on one of the bus board in the pics?
sixty_n
@atte the wire that goes from one busboard to the other supplies 5v to the board without no regulator
L-1
yes, I think no need regulators on both boards. one is enough.
atte
Thanks

Two questions:
1) is it correct that on busboards the resistors are R1=4K7, R1=4K7, R3=1K?
2) are all LEDs the same (interchangeable), except of course color?
L-1
atte wrote:
Thanks

Two questions:
1) is it correct that on busboards the resistors are R1=4K7, R1=4K7, R3=1K?
2) are all LEDs the same (interchangeable), except of course color?


1) yes
2) LEDs included in the kit? - yes. LEDs in rest of the world - no.
atte
Thanks. I was only referring to the kit w00t
atte
PK808370 wrote:
atte, I really like your music! I started listening to it while writing the previous post. Thanks for sharing it.


Thanks for listening and for the kind words, means alot! Great to hear you're enjoy it!
atte



Looking at the two above pictures, I'm a little confused about connecting the ring-core.

The first picture has (up-to-down) on the left:
P2E: red
P2A: blue (=white?)
P1E: red
P1A :blue (=white?)

and on the right:
S2E: black
S2A: blue
S1E: black
S1A: blue

The second picture has on the left:
P2E: white
P2A: red
P1E: white
P1A: red

and on the right:
S2E: blue
S2A: blue
S1E: black
S1A: black

What exactly should the connections be?
L-1
Quote:
What exactly should the connections be?


you written this wrong:
and on the right:
S2E: blue
S2A: blue
S1E: black
S1A: black

really black-blue-black-blue.

Both variants are possible but make as on top drawing to not think too much.
atte
L-1 wrote:
Quote:
What exactly should the connections be?


you written this wrong:
and on the right:
S2E: blue
S2A: blue
S1E: black
S1A: black

really black-blue-black-blue.



Looks blue-blue-black-black to me, but agreed, it's hard to see exactly where wires go.

L-1 wrote:

Both variants are possible but make as on top drawing to not think too much.


Ok, thanks a lot! I'll go with the diagram. This was also my first instinct, just noticed they weren't the same, though I'd better ask before I mess something up w00t
atte
So I finished the main board + bus boards, although I didn't connect the bus boards yet. How do I go about calibration, I assume it done with the trim pots?

ATM I get about 12.04V measured straight on the molex connector off the main board. What's my target, 12.00V or?

Also: After pulling the power the 12.04V drops to 0V over a period of about 10-20 seconds, is that to be expected? Didn't measure my Doepfer DIY#2 PSU, but modules turn out almost the moment I pull the power on that one. So although they might not be comparable in any way, the slow off on the L-1 surprised me a bit.
L-1
I installed there 10K resistors to discharge these big capacitors but anyway it takes some time about 10 sec. 18800 uF per rail there.
You can install smaller value - will be quicker.

Yes use trimpots to trim 12V.
atte
Just wanted to say I finished the PSU, it works great, nice build, looks good!

Very happy with my decision, thanks alot L-1!
L-1
atte wrote:
Just wanted to say I finished the PSU, it works great, nice build, looks good!

Very happy with my decision, thanks alot L-1!


My congrats! applause thumbs up
igowen
just picked up a kit from Synthcube. quick question, though: when you say "1.5A per rail" am I understanding correctly that there are two rails, one for each bus board, supporting 1.5A each (for a total of 3A across both)? just trying to plan out my system. I'm thinking about building a larger case if it's 3A, otherwise I will mount it in my existing case since i'm just about at 1.5A currently.

thanks!
khakifridge
Two rails, +12V and -12V. So +12V @ 1.5A and -12V @ 1.5A.
L-1
khakifridge wrote:
Two rails, +12V and -12V. So +12V @ 1.5A and -12V @ 1.5A.


Yes correct.

1.5A is max recommended value.
Thermofuses are 1.85A but can turn off at lower value if bad ventilation. Transformer rated 2.2A. Regulators rated 3A. Diodes 3A.



Rockin' Banana! Rockin' Banana! 2000 post! nanners It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time!
igowen
oh, duh, i wasn't thinking about -12V at all d'oh! got it, thanks.
atte
I've found an unconnected hole on the bus-board, might bite someone if using CV on bus board + connected to that particular location. Might want to fix it for a potential next round...

[/img]
igowen
hi again,

i've been having an issue where the thermofuses trip after my system has been on for ~30-45 minutes. the current draw (measured myself, not based on manufacturer specs) is only ~1200mA so this was kind of surprising. Could it be a heat issue? my case is pretty small depthwise. should i try moving up to a larger heat sink?
atte
Do you have sufficient ventilation? Does the case get hot inside?
igowen
the heatsinks get quite hot to the touch - i think around 80-90ºC, measured with an infrared thermometer. I haven't measured the air temperature. there isn't much in the way of ventilation, it's basically just a wooden box (think Doepfer LC6 but shallower). I could probably rout some ventilation slots in the top if necessary.
atte
Yeah, ventilation at top + bottom at the back makes a lot of difference. Is just did 3cm at top/bottom of one case and it's nowhere as hot inside now.
igowen
I will give that a try, thanks! i'll probably also swap out the heatsinks, i have some 36mm ones that are the same shape as the ones in the kit.

was trying to avoid having to pull all of my modules out but it looks like it's going to be inevitable smile
atte
Yeah, mine was a huge operation. All modules out, screw busboards and psu out, take case apart (mine is all screws), saw the cutouts, then everything back in reverse order w00t
igowen
btw - a couple of notes from my build:

  • i suggest using insulated spade terminals to connect the power inlet instead of soldering onto it directly
  • pay special attention to the orientation of the 1N4007 diodes. basically everything on the board is laid out symmetrically except for one of these (yes, i installed it backwards initially)
  • the switch that comes in the supplied power inlet feels very cheap, and in fact mine melted (!) when I was applying heat shrink tubing to its connections. i suggest swapping it out for a nicer but equivalent switch, like this one from Cherry. most equivalent switches have spade terminals that are the same size as the inlet, which makes it easier to hook up if you don't want to solder directly to the inlet.


that being said, though, this is a very cost effective kit and i bought a second one for when i build my next case thumbs up
JenniferG
That's one gorgeous power supply kit. I am very interested.

I have a question. What is a rail? -12v vs +12v on the same bus? 2 rails per bus?

Or is the second "rail" the other bus board that's connected to the other transformer's output? I see that you have two outputs from the transformer with mirrored rectifiers and dc supplies.

I'm new to electronics but have built my own linear regulated power supply and also unregulated stereo dc supply board for lm3886 chip amp.
L-1
atte measure real draw of your system. thermofuses must not turn off att 1200mA, they rated 1850mA. Make some ventilation holes because such draw needs ventilation.


JenniferG rails are +12V and -12V. yes 2 rails per bus. yes two outputs from transformer and everything on the board by two - one for +12V, second for -12V.
atte
L-1 wrote:
atte measure real draw of your system.


You meant to write igowen hihi
Metatronic Mods
I have some mixed emotions after stumbling on your L-1 system via another thread just now. I kinda wish I'd found it last year when I was researching linear bipolar power supplies. A few of my local friends got into eurorack last year and pressed me for affordable power.

My first thought was get some MFOS PSU boards like I'd used for other projects, but then I found out Ray was ill and the MFOS shop was (temporarily anyways) closed. So I looked at every other solution I could find before ultimately deciding that designing my own PSU would be the best value for my friends and I.

No doubt there's some recapitulation of your work in the design I completed (more or less) a year after. (Picture shows the first few prototypes)

On one hand I'm kind of butt-hurt that my work wasn't so novel as I thought, but on the other I suppose the similarities prove I can't be too far off in my methods & design philosophy.

So first off, bravo! Seems a solid piece of kit! And thanks for the unconscious affirmations of my own work.

Second (and this is the million dollar question) How are you doing this? I mean how do you sleep in peace; marketing a kit and pre-assembled PSU? Have you just crossed your fingers and hoped for the best? I ask because I only learned of the legal issues after investing a LOT of time working on my design. I've sold my supplies to the few local friends that initially prompted the design, but I've been afraid to do much else. I've posed the same question to other PSU designers, and I've only received dodgy answers or severe warnings in response. So what's your take?
L-1
Metatronic Mods

I'm in peace with belarussian legal issues. Don't know anything about US or australian laws.
Metatronic Mods
L-1 wrote:
Metatronic Mods

I'm in peace with belarussian legal issues. Don't know anything about US or australian laws.


but you're selling outside of Belarus aren't you?
L-1
Metatronic Mods wrote:
L-1 wrote:
Metatronic Mods

I'm in peace with belarussian legal issues. Don't know anything about US or australian laws.


but you're selling outside of Belarus aren't you?


What problem?
atte
Metatronic Mods wrote:
L-1 wrote:
Metatronic Mods

I'm in peace with belarussian legal issues. Don't know anything about US or australian laws.


but you're selling outside of Belarus aren't you?


Metatronic Mods, I might be over sensitive, but to me you come across quite aggresive. If that's unintented, maybe try rephrasing the question? Again, it might just be me...
Metatronic Mods
L-1 wrote:
What problem?


Aren't power supplies subject to the laws in the countries they are sold in? Not just the laws of their country of origin? There's another thread somewhere on here talking about all the regulatory bodies one must deal with in order to be legal for worldwide sale.
Metatronic Mods
atte wrote:
Metatronic Mods wrote:
L-1 wrote:
Metatronic Mods

I'm in peace with belarussian legal issues. Don't know anything about US or australian laws.


but you're selling outside of Belarus aren't you?


Metatronic Mods, I might be over sensitive, but to me you come across quite aggresive. If that's unintented, maybe try rephrasing the question? Again, it might just be me...


You're mistaking enthusiasm for aggression. In talking to others who have designed their own power supplies I'm hoping to find out if there is some loophole I've overlooked. I have been met with a bit of aggression from those that seem to know the law and see selling "uninsured" power supplies as a dangerous and unnecessary risk. To the point I've held off advertising and selling mine.

It seems like many manufacturers are just willing to take the risk, but if there are any ways to mitigate liability risks short of spending $1000's on testing and certification, I'm eager to hear them.
atte
Wouldn't you question be better asked in a pm or private email than on a public forum?
Metatronic Mods
atte wrote:
Wouldn't you question be better asked in a pm or private email than on a public forum?


For what reason? If L-1 has information concerning legalities that I'm unaware of, it would be useful to others on this forum as well.

I'm in no way trying to start conflict or discredit L-1 or his work. In fact I prefaced my first reply by applauding his work. Nor do I mean to turn away prospective customers.

When I initially asked how he could sleep at night, I wasn't implying that L-1 is endangering the public. Rather, the possibility that a well designed and assembled supply could malfunction or be misused and result in a lawsuit that would bankrupt me, (regardless of how remote the possibility or confident I am in my design,) is enough of a concern that I would have a hard time living with the risk.
L-1
I sale not a PSU but a bunch of electronic parts from which is possible to build a PSU.
Also I can to build a PSU from these parts on order by private arrangement.
I see no need for that to visit all 200+ world countries and sertify it in each.
sylvain
Hi L-1,

I would be interested in a +/- 15 V version too...

Would it be possible to mod the 12 V PCB ?
EATyourGUITAR
I want to use nylon washers and wood screws for a wood case. are the PCB standoffs all M3? what height are the standoffs in the kit?
EATyourGUITAR
paypal sent for complete kit
Permette
Hello

Really nice project, congratulation L-1 !

Anyone to share a referenced BOM/Mouser cart or other ?
I haven't seen any reading this thread and looking at L-1 web site.
Thanks in advance.

Cheers
L-1
Permette wrote:
Hello

Really nice project, congratulation L-1 !

Anyone to share a referenced BOM/Mouser cart or other ?
I haven't seen any reading this thread and looking at L-1 web site.
Thanks in advance.

Cheers


This is FULL kit. No need to buy anything else. All parts included.
Permette
Ok L-1, understood
sorry to ask around.
EATyourGUITAR
why did you include 1K resistors? I don't see it on the pcb
L-1
EATyourGUITAR wrote:
why did you include 1K resistors? I don't see it on the pcb


1K are for busboards, for 5V LED.
EATyourGUITAR
ok I fixed it now but can you put this information on your site or on a piece of paper with the kit? the bus boards are marked R1 R2 R3. this was the only problem I had building from the pictures.
EATyourGUITAR
some stuff I ordered to complete the build. maybe other people will find this useful.

crimping tool. I have not used it yet.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151674300635

flux remover. I have not used it yet.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/152014314983

high temp brush in a bottle silicone conformal coating. I have not used it yet.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/142082770301

if you don't like the included power entry module you can upgrade to a shafner power entry module

http://www.ebay.com/itm/201090778275

dual 2A 250v 20mm x 5mm fuses for my shafner power entry module

http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=0034.3120virtualkey6 9300000virtualkey693-0034.3120

screws for shafner in wood case

http://www.ebay.com/itm/231200361776

other wood case parts for mounting the PCB's

nylon spacers

http://www.ebay.com/itm/162037751057

M3 wood screws

http://www.ebay.com/itm/231531218299
EATyourGUITAR
for the woodscrew with a 2.5mm hex head you need this tool

www.ebay.com/itm/131917365802

blooper
EATyourGUITAR wrote:
for the woodscrew with a 2.5mm hex head you need this tool

www.ebay.com/itm/131917365802



Out of curiosity how deep is your case? How much clearance are you leaving between the modules and the transformer?

And are you going to have ventilation?
EATyourGUITAR
the case is 105mm from the wood to the back of the panel. 55mm from the transformer to the back of the panel. I don't think I will be placing deep modules close to the transformer so that is not really an issue for me. the way this case is setup, I can use a combination of anything from 105mm to skiff style modules as long as I have some 30mm ish modules near the transformer and heatsinks. I have enough power to put one troggotronic module but if I add more I can just stick the wallwart inside the case pretty easy.
blooper
Cool, reason I asked is that I'm building a case very similar to yours, 100mm deep with an L-1 PSU. You responded to another thread I started like a week ago regarding module distance from toroidal transformers. I too have some ~30mm height modules that I will be putting above the toroid.
microtonal
I've built one of these L-1 Power Supply kits and can vouch for its performance. I saw absolutely no ripple using fixed power resistors as loads. At 0.8 Amps the +12V noise voltage was 657 uV rms, approaching the noise floor of my scope. At 1.3 Amps noise voltage was 638 uVrms. This power supply is highly recommended for low noise and ripple!!!

Mechanically I do recommend one improvement. The kit came with brass standoffs, which are fine for the light weight bus board, but not for the heavy PSU board which includes the large toroidal transformer. Brass standoffs are just as soft as aluminum ones. I replaced the main PSU standoffs with stainless steel ones, which have about twice the shear strength. These were part number 36-24295-ND from Digikey, Hex Standoff M3 Stainless Steel 10mm.

One other change I made was to replace the combined power entry, fuse and power switch module with a separate power entry/fuse and power switch. This made the holes required for my aluminum backing panel smaller and less difficult to drill/cut/file out. Also, the supplied module seemed designed for a thinner sheet metal panel, as I don't believe it would grip onto the 0.125 inch thick aluminum panel.

Overall another great design from L-1.
Koryo
Did any one, should I, electrically isolate the heat sinks from the TO-220 regulator packages?
L-1
Koryo wrote:
Did any one, should I, electrically isolate the heat sinks from the TO-220 regulator packages?


No need.
microtonal
I took some better measurements today.

1.3 A fixed load on the L-1 power supply +12 VDC. 1:1 probe using spring type wire tip for ground, minimizing noise pickup. All measurements with 20 MHz BW limit.

TEK TDS2024C digital oscilloscope, it's lowest range is 2 mV/div and I see about 2 mVpp, whether shorting the signal to ground or measuring the powered L-1. I'd declare the ripple and noise as being under the noise floor of the scope.

Brought out an analog scope, TEK 2230 Digital Storage scope but using only the analog portion. Lowest range is also 2 mV/div. Shorted the probe shows a straight line, connected to the L-1 I see only a slight wavering of the signal. I'd call this a few hundred microvolts of ripple and noise. It is difficult to call it anything more precise than that.

FWIW, a top of the line Fluke 287 DMM measures up to 0.150 mV rms. Accuracy of the DMM is not specified below 1 mV rms so it's tough to judge that measurement.

Again, great job on this supply!
blitit
How do you calibrate the psu it to get 12v? I have build a lot of diy modules in the past but never a psu :S.
GryphonP3
blitit wrote:
How do you calibrate the psu it to get 12v? I have build a lot of diy modules in the past but never a psu :S.


PSUs generally use trimmers. Measure ground to + and -, trim for +/-12.00V. Easy!
ehafh
can i use a long cable to wire the busboards to the power supply?
say 2-3 feet away?

and can you chain 2 of these together?
or do they each need a their own power plug?
dujoducom
Hey, I'm wondering if anyone has a mouser number or manufacturer name or link to where I might be able to find more information about the plastic connectors that connect the bus boards and the IEC connector. I bought a complete L-1 and would like to extend the bus board cables so I can mount the PSU to to the side of my case and I'd prefer to do it by building a new cable with matching connectors. Any leads would be helpful.
widgetoz
Metatronic Mods wrote:
L-1 wrote:
What problem?


Aren't power supplies subject to the laws in the countries they are sold in? Not just the laws of their country of origin? There's another thread somewhere on here talking about all the regulatory bodies one must deal with in order to be legal for worldwide sale.

Do you have a link to this thread?
Tried searching on a few words but couldn't find anything
L-1
dujoducom wrote:
Hey, I'm wondering if anyone has a mouser number or manufacturer name or link to where I might be able to find more information about the plastic connectors that connect the bus boards and the IEC connector. I bought a complete L-1 and would like to extend the bus board cables so I can mount the PSU to to the side of my case and I'd prefer to do it by building a new cable with matching connectors. Any leads would be helpful.



MTA-156
L-1
I already ordered transformers, and prepairing to order boards for re-stock of the Power System.

Expect to have new stock before the New Year. Will inform here about progress.
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