MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index
 FAQ & Terms of UseFAQ & Terms Of Use   Wiggler RadioMW Radio   Muff Wiggler TwitterTwitter   Support the site @ PatreonPatreon 
 SearchSearch   RegisterSign up   Log inLog in 
WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

evin209 + freq shifter = barber pole effect?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> The Harvestman  
Author evin209 + freq shifter = barber pole effect?
A Dingleberry Monstrosity
I cant seem to get it to happen!! angry


ive got a simple oscillator going into my freq shifter, the output of this is then split, 1 is being monitored the other is being fed back into the freq shifter via my evin 209.

its not happening!! Ive got an output but its just a bastardized shifted version of itself!! No matter the levels I play with or if I add or subtract the signal.... BLARG!!! angry

any tips? I thought this was how you get this effect. hmmm.....
Karl Jeffers
barberpole efx are continuous raising or lowering pitches/filtersweeps/phasing/chorus/flanging etc...

you get this with at least 4 (but preferably 8) lfo's, 90 degrees out of phase (or 45 if you use 8). And 4 or 8 vca's. Each lfo raises or lowers pitch etc and a vca witch raises level when pitch ect raises or lowers and cuts level when the wanted efx is reversed.
I hope thats clear sad banana sad banana

Here's more info.
worker8
There's a simple barberpole example on the modcan homepage (39B FS : http://modcan.com/mp3/newmodules/barberpole.mp3).

Apparently, the patch is the same as ADM : feedback with a mixer.

I would insert a delay/BDD unit in the feedback loop ... seriously, i just don't get it
Yohda
A Dingleberry Monstrosity wrote:
I cant seem to get it to happen!! angry


ive got a simple oscillator going into my freq shifter, the output of this is then split, 1 is being monitored the other is being fed back into the freq shifter via my evin 209.

its not happening!! Ive got an output but its just a bastardized shifted version of itself!! No matter the levels I play with or if I add or subtract the signal.... BLARG!!! angry

any tips? I thought this was how you get this effect. hmmm.....

On my Cwejman FSH-1 I have to set the frequency slow, if the frequency of the FS is audio, you can't ear the barber pole effect. The frequency of the modulator set the "rate" of the barber pole.

Maybe just use a slower modulator.
wetterberg
yeah, the FS has to be set to just *barely* either above or below the incoming audio, if that makes sense. When doing this in software I have my FS set to less than 1hz above or below center position.
Yohda
In fact, the modulator as to be at LFO rate, whatever the incomming audio frequency is.
wetterberg
Modulator? I don't use a modulator at all. In fact, now that I think about it you can't really call this barberpoling, can you? I mean, a frequency shifter in a feedback loop *will* increase the pitch forever, as far as I'm concerned. hmmm.....

- either way it sounds blimming cool.
Yohda
A frequency shifter is a kind of "dual-half-ring-mod" (if that make any sens...), so you need a modulator, generaly it's a VCO integrated (like in the Cwejman or Doepfer etc...)

Apparently the VCO in the Doepfer can't go slow, so the Doepfer FS can't make Baber pole.
Karl Jeffers
I did not realize what was meant. Sorry.
But the doepfer fs can go slow with the A-143-9 connected to it.
Then it should work as the topic starter has mentioned.
Yohda
Quote:
But the doepfer fs can go slow with the A-143-9 connected to it.

Yes, I just realized this in the Doepfer site.

Oh, and if you feedback the "Sum" (Up) output, the barber pole will rise, if you feedback the "difference" (down) output, the barber pole will fall.
Yohda
wetterberg wrote:
yeah, the FS has to be set to just *barely* either above or below the incoming audio, if that makes sense. When doing this in software I have my FS set to less than 1hz above or below center position.


Ok, You are right, I have made some experiment, I didn't know that, it's different from the other method but nice too.

Just, you can't use this for non tuned sound like noise or external source etc...
Karl Jeffers
Yohda wrote:
Quote:
But the doepfer fs can go slow with the A-143-9 connected to it.

Yes, I just realized this in the Doepfer site.


Only 1 problem: you can't ajust the depth of the lfo.
To do that, you need a stereo pot to change the level.
daverj
The last patent that Harald Bode got, back in the early 80s, was for a barberpole phaser. In the patent he explained that a "classic" phaser is a phase shifter mixed with the original signal, while his version of a barberpole phaser is a phase shifter mixed with a very slightly frequency shifted version of the original. (very slightly meaning a hertz or two).

Here are two block diagrams he gave in the patent, both of which work. I played with his prototype and it was mesmerizing. It included a bidirectional mode where it went up and down at the same time.

Cat-A-Tonic
Thanks for posting those block diagrams DaveRJ.
I'll have to try patching that up.
A Dingleberry Monstrosity
Im def... DEF giving that a shot tonight.

my only phaser is on my ineko though, shouldnt be an issue though.
A Dingleberry Monstrosity
man, I can not get this ish to work!!

I think its because my doepfer freq shifter wont go low enough. d'oh!
oh well.
Karl Jeffers
I will try.

Wait a couple of day's for results.
Karl Jeffers
It keeps on going higher and higher or lower and lower. And therefore you loose sound fast.
So it only works for a few seconds at best.
digitalganesha
worker8 wrote:
There's a simple barberpole example on the modcan homepage (39B FS : http://modcan.com/mp3/newmodules/barberpole.mp3).

Apparently, the patch is the same as ADM : feedback with a mixer.

I would insert a delay/BDD unit in the feedback loop ... seriously, i just don't get it


This is one of the greatest sounds I have ever fucking heard. It's amazingly beautiful.
ndkent
Thanks daverj - that's in interesting diagram.

>It keeps on going higher and higher or lower and lower. And therefore you loose sound fast.
>So it only works for a few seconds at best.

Then that's not a barberpole! It's something else or not the whole effect being implemented.

My understanding is a barberpole effect is similar to watching a barberpole spin. It looks or sounds like it's always rising (or falling) but you are only seeing/hearing part of the whole thing going on. The back side hides the fact it's a rotating painted cylinder you are only seeing part of. In real life something can't really rise forever but the whole audio barberpole concept as I understand it is before it maxes out to do a smooth crossfade into a copy of the same thing at it's start. That usually sounds just like a crossfade so if you add a few more fades in and out of the rise you want at different times (say quadrature) the composite just sounds like a never ending rise of one thing rather than a several time limited rises fading in and out
A Dingleberry Monstrosity
yeah, barberpole effect does not stop, it constantly appears to be going up or down in frequency.
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> The Harvestman  
Page 1 of 1
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group