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Hello Tenori-On users
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Tenori-On  
Author Hello Tenori-On users
Paranormal Patroler
Seems like we haven't had a post in this part of the forum since 2011 lol !
What have you guys been up to?
pantalones
Well...the forum went down and we lost a lot of posts. I had posted a few things here last year.

either way i think it's time to sell my tenori-on.
Paranormal Patroler
I know dude, I moderate this place. I have lost several posts due to the meltdown and I keep on losing more. How come you're selling it?
pantalones
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
I know dude, I moderate this place. I have lost several posts due to the meltdown and I keep on losing more. How come you're selling it?


It's just become a museum piece that represented a lot of neat ideas and sits on my shelf. I have a pretty strict use it or lose it / anti-collector mentality in my studio.
Paranormal Patroler
Weird how one man's bread and butter is another man's museum piece. I adhere to your "use it or lose it" mentality and that's why I own two of 'em. hihi
Ginko
I have thought about the Tenori-on a lot. It's always been about hitting the *right* price for me hint hint hihi (don't call me i have no moneys)
Mr. Pete
i love my Tenori-On's ~ all three versions


Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Seems like we haven't had a post in this part of the forum since 2011 lol !
What have you guys been up to?
Kernelkunt
Ive always been curious about the tenori on. Have played around with the ipad version, and I love the different sequencing modes. However, I detest touch screens, so I might look into getting the real thing.

What are the differences between the orange and normal version?
On the ipad version, user samples cant be played chromatically, is this also the case on the hardware version?
Rigo
Orange version can't take batteries, and has no lights at the bottom. And has a different color hihi
Someone correct me if I'm wrong ...
Kent
Rigo wrote:
Orange version can't take batteries, and has no lights at the bottom. And has a different color hihi
Someone correct me if I'm wrong ...


That's about it, really. The magnesium shell, dual-sided lighting and rechargeable batteries were the most expensive parts of the unit. The 'Orange' version was an attempt to bring this cool product's price down to something that would make the product easier to acquire for the proletariat.
Paranormal Patroler
They should've done it earlier. The innitial admission was too steep.
ersatzplanet
mine has always been a hit at synth meets. I get more questions about it than my euro rig. People really dig it until they hear the price. mine has a broken on/off switch which is a real drag, and it is in a place where oldering in a new one is a PITA. Still love mine though. I use mine as a sequencer for my euro rig (five CV>MIDI converters) and I have a old laptop with a dedicated Reason setup just for the T-O that works really well.
Paranormal Patroler
Reason as synth?
ersatzplanet
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Reason as synth?


Yes. I set up a Reason session with tracks mapped to similar sounding T-O tracks - bass line, rhythm, lead etc.) and write stuff on the T-O and when I get back to the studio, plug in the MIDI out from the T-O to the old laptop running reason and tweak the sounds there. Works great. I don't record or anything in the Reason setup, I just use it as a instrument. I have done this with a few multi-channel MIDI boxes to get away from the J-Pop sounds of the T-O. Sometimes it is good to layer them though. A cheap E-mu Proteus is a good choice too. Multi-channel and multiple audio out make it easy to use. I have also done this with a Wavestation SR but iy is much harder to set up.
flec8
pantalones
Hey If you're selling a TRN-W let me know!
lotri22
Hi,

is there any midi processor ,something like Midi Solutions unit, but editable in real time? I love my TenoriOn, with mini KP2's hard limiter,its my favourite music toy. With Perfourmer mk2, it's the fastest rhythm/melody maker.
With the midi processor and TR8,it will turn the digital 7890789 machine into cyborg grin I mean, change the CC's when triggers are ON, trigger Kick=mute Input…and so on…TR8's sequencer only for delay/reverb...
Paranormal Patroler
Depends on what it is exactly you're looking for, I can't tell by your description above: trigger Kick=mute Input ???

If you want real-time remapping of channels, filtering etc, I can only suggest a MidiTemp PMM-88 (which I happen to be selling in BST hihi ). No seriously, that's the only standalone device I know of which can be reprogrammed in real-time without using a computer. It has it's own remote program device for this exact reason.

Saying that, the EPP by MIDI solutions is not editable in real-time but you can send it MIDI messages to change between programs you've already created. It has 32 slots but they're usually not enough if you want to do crazy stuff like I do.

If money is not an issue I can also suggest a combination of the above, get EPPs and use a midi matrix to swap between them. Other options are to get a MIDIPal (which does a few cool tricks but only one channel), or wait for a few years until something new comes up.
Mr. Pete
its like any instrument the tactile sensation is considerably different
lighter weight too ~ even without batteries but thosee batteries (6 AA) are quite heavy

another major difference is the lights are on BOTH sides with the W so the audience can see the lights not just the performer


Rigo wrote:
Orange version can't take batteries, and has no lights at the bottom. And has a different color hihi
Someone correct me if I'm wrong ...
IR
I don't own one, but I thought they were interesting so I downloaded the manual. Noticed it needs "vintage" sd cards, I was looking for those in shops a few months ago for my camera, impossible to find in real shops.
Paranormal Patroler
Not necessarily. I managed to find one from a computer shop very easily a year ago when I got my second unit.
lotri22
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Depends on what it is exactly you're looking for, I can't tell by your description above: trigger Kick=mute Input ???



Let say, I wanna use each layer for triggering one voice on TR8.
CH1 for Kick, if the notes triggers the kick sound,at the same time I want turn the note number to CC value corresponding with the Kick's decay and CC value which opens the input's gate (will make the input duck when Kick is triggered)
CH2 for snare and so on
Paranormal Patroler
The TO sends each layer on a different MIDI channel, as you probably already know. Your above requirements are easily addressed via the MIDI Solutions box, but I fail to see where the real-time issue is. You can easily pre-program the EPP to do the above and let it do its thing while you're playing. Do you want to be able to swap between remappings? Can you give me an example of your editable in real-time requirements?
lotri22
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
The TO sends each layer on a different MIDI channel, as you probably already know. Your above requirements are easily addressed via the MIDI Solutions box, but I fail to see where the real-time issue is. You can easily pre-program the EPP to do the above and let it do its thing while you're playing. Do you want to be able to swap between remappings? Can you give me an example of your editable in real-time requirements?


Yes I would like to be more flexible with the mapping, without the need of the computer. The MidiSolutions proc. is exactly what I'm looking for, if there was a display/ encoder…it would be ideal. I will get it though. Thx
Paranormal Patroler
Well, as I said before if you're looking for real-time remapping of what goes where you should look into the MidiTemp series. Regardless that I am not keeping mine, I can attest that it is an extremely deep midi matrix, worth owing. If your setup contains a lot of synths it could be ideal as it's the only device I know of that can be reprogrammed on the fly, without requiring a computer, with it's small and compact remote programmer.

As old as MIDI is there are a lot of devices out there that can accommodate peculiar needs. Take it from a MIDI nut like myself, I keep digging up stuff I never imagined would be available.
IR
lotri22 wrote:
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Depends on what it is exactly you're looking for, I can't tell by your description above: trigger Kick=mute Input ???



Let say, I wanna use each layer for triggering one voice on TR8.
CH1 for Kick, if the notes triggers the kick sound,at the same time I want turn the note number to CC value corresponding with the Kick's decay and CC value which opens the input's gate (will make the input duck when Kick is triggered)
CH2 for snare and so on
If you want to control CCs and mess with lots of settings, better get something like a Korg EMX-1 or ESX-1 or Yamaha RM1X, on all those you can remap the knobs to different CC values.

On the other hand, you could use a Tenori-On to trigger modular drums (with a MIDI to trig module), and simply connect the outputs of the modules to a mixer. You can then mute sounds at the mixer.
Paranormal Patroler
IR wrote:
If you want to control CCs and mess with lots of settings, better get something like a Korg EMX-1 or ESX-1 or Yamaha RM1X, on all those you can remap the knobs to different CC values.


The Draw Mode of the TO is fantastic for making automations for CC's. With the EPP you can rescale the 16X16 grid to cover all 128 values of a CC and it's easy to draw very drastic changes. I do this all the time.
lotri22
IR wrote:
lotri22 wrote:
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Depends on what it is exactly you're looking for, I can't tell by your description above: trigger Kick=mute Input ???



Let say, I wanna use each layer for triggering one voice on TR8.
CH1 for Kick, if the notes triggers the kick sound,at the same time I want turn the note number to CC value corresponding with the Kick's decay and CC value which opens the input's gate (will make the input duck when Kick is triggered)
CH2 for snare and so on
If you want to control CCs and mess with lots of settings, better get something like a Korg EMX-1 or ESX-1 or Yamaha RM1X, on all those you can remap the knobs to different CC values.


On the other hand, you could use a Tenori-On to trigger modular drums (with a MIDI to trig module), and simply connect the outputs of the modules to a mixer. You can then mute sounds at the mixer.
TR8 is not as deep as the electribes but I like the UI and the classic sounds,and it's limitations. I have the best fun with it when sequencing with Numerology,playing with polyrhythms and lfoing velocity, CC's….
But tenorion doesn't need computer,is faster,more intuitive and it's structure forces the creativity from different angle. It's just too limited with the simple midi note on/off transfer.
Mr. Pete
I have found Tenori-On SD in small computer shops too dirt cheap so I bought extra but you never need more than one per hardware tenori since you have a computer to back up your data ~ and that data is so tiny I have yet to run out of space on its small capacity SDs

I played with the "i" again and am amazed more people aren't jumping on it
- loads of new features since I last looked beyond more user samples, and color ~ you can now route layers to different iOS synths on your iPad like Animoog ~ but still I far prefer the hardware versions playing the touch screen command L1-5 and R1-5 buttons is really quite awkward on the iPad compared to the real things

IR wrote:
I don't own one, but I thought they were interesting so I downloaded the manual. Noticed it needs "vintage" sd cards, I was looking for those in shops a few months ago for my camera, impossible to find in real shops.
rabc
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
The TO sends each layer on a different MIDI channel, as you probably already know. Your above requirements are easily addressed via the MIDI Solutions box, but I fail to see where the real-time issue is. You can easily pre-program the EPP to do the above and let it do its thing while you're playing. Do you want to be able to swap between remappings? Can you give me an example of your editable in real-time requirements?


Hi! Just acquired a practically new TNR-O for dirt cheap and want to use it to control my Roland TR8. Found this this thread as been searching high and low for some Tenori-On (hardware) MIDI info!

So... Tenori-on sends each layer on different MIDI Channel? Ok, I was unaware of that! If I wanted to use my TNR-O to control my Roland TR8 (which is default to MIDI Channel 10) similar to this video below, do i just need to set Tenori-On to Layer 10?

I've tried that and still no sounds

any advice would be so appreciated

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVWW6jBPeG4
Paranormal Patroler
Have you read the manual? Try using Layer 10 and see if that works. Are you sure TR8 is on MIDI channel 10?
rabc
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Have you read the manual? Try using Layer 10 and see if that works. Are you sure TR8 is on MIDI channel 10?


Yeh thanks for reply @Paranormal Patroler.. I read both manuals.. which are both kinda vague actually and admittidly i am no MIDI guru :\

TR8 MIDI Implementation Chart def says defaults on channel 10
http://cdn.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/TR-8_MIDI_Imple_Chart_e02_W.pdf

Tenroi MIDI info (page 115 of below) states defaults 1-16
http://download.yamaha.com/api/asset/file/?language=sv&site=se.yamaha. com&asset_id=13049

I've discovered Tenori-On layers 1-16 = midi channels 1-16 so I've:
1) changed mine to Layer 10 (seeing TR8 defaults on MIDI Channel 10)
2) connected [MIDI OUT] of Tenori-On into [MIDI IN] of Roland TR8

--> still nothing. Sounds I'm hearing are that of the 'internal instrument' selected for Layer 10.

I have to be missing something so small...
lotri22
TR8 voices have dedicated note triggers spread over 1st octave I guess, make sure you are on the Scene 10 on TenorOn (transmits on midi ch 10) ,scale mode is chromatic and then lower the octave on that channel ( everything on tenori)
You have to be in the right octave then you will find which notes triggers the TR8 drum voices
keith_p
Hi all,

Great forum! Glad this exists, stoked to find a bit of community around a brilliant piece of kit that I've only recently pulled out again.

Following on from this discussion, first time posting here, having a similar issue regarding midi.

I'm trying to use the tenori-on to play the Electribe EMX-1.
No worries with the synth parts, they work beautifully, and are a load of fun to play on the tenori-on and manipulate live on the EMX.

Just for kicks, I'd like to be able to play the drum parts as well - but I can't get it to work. On the EMX all drum parts are on one midi channel, default channel 10.

I've tried adjusting the channels (from default 10 to each of the 16 layers) and gone through the Octave as suggested above.

I'm starting to think that I've missed something really basic, and that maybe it can't be done.

Ideally I'd be able to operate in a manner similar to what this chap's done with his 808.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRPcbX0rktc

Any direction would be greatly appreciated.
IR
keith_p wrote:
I'm starting to think that I've missed something really basic, and that maybe it can't be done.

lol lolspew o.k. maybe not quite that funny

you know you can set the MIDI note numbers for the drum sounds in the EMX, and you should save them after you do, right?

(btw, Korg note numbers are an octave off from other manufacturers)
lotri22
keith_p wrote:
Hi all,


I've tried adjusting the channels (from default 10 to each of the 16 layers) and gone through the Octave as suggested above.



The scale on Tenori might be not sending the right notes to trigger the drum voices, make sure you are in chromatic scale. I was in this same position, it took me time to find the right buttons for my custom midi to TR77 converter
keith_p
lotri22 Thanks! I'll go through the Octaves again tonight.

IR
don't have a full grasp of midi to tell the truth (as I imagine was obvious). but looking through the Tenori-on manual, and I can't find the notes that I'd want to change it to.

sorry if I'm asking the wrong questions. Just thought it would be cool to hook it up for fun.
keith_p
Just for the record this did turn out to be a quick fix with the Octaves.
In Chromatic scale you need to be on -2 for each layer that you want to use.

Only just got around to rejigging things, but stoked to get this working. Such an underrated machine in my opinion.
XPump
Spent and afternoon w/o success attempting to get the my Tenori connected thru my Encore Expressionist which I thought would be a snap but I found the the Tenori is only sending all its midi via its Layer 1 to Midi Channel 1 .

I finally used a Mutible CV-Pal to monitor the "-out-" and regardless of what Layers or layers and Blocks set the Tenori to its data input on each layer gets summed with Midi Channel 1 and its sent on layer 1 only .

I must be missing some setting on the Tenori as all the docs state exact layer correlates to the Midi Channel
- Ive looked at all the settings on the Tenori for a few hrs now and I no grok it -- Can someone point me to how I can configure the below ?

Midi Chan#1 <= Tenori Layer 1
Midi Chan#2 <= Tenori Layer 2
Midi Chan#3 <= Tenori Layer 3
Midi Chan#3 <= Tenori Layer 3

Thanks!
Paranormal Patroler
You can't. Each layer sends to a specific MIDI channel.
XPump
thx for the reply - I'm still confused very frustrating-
My understanding was, as Paranormal Patroler stated: "Each layer sends to a specific MIDI channel."

--is that specific channel only 'one' channel then?

A lot of the demo vids sound like there are fully independent voice threads per layer but my experience is each layer is sending thru only one channel.

When i input patterns on Layers 1,2,3 and 4 - all the events appear output only Midi channel 1

..what I thought would happen was :
the pattern on Layer 1 would be on Midi 1
the pattern on Layer 2 would be on Midi 2
the pattern on Layer 3 would be on Midi 3

As all the events are summed out on the one channel notes from the (4) layers "compete" and some are dropped ... (i guess depending on whatever rule of precedence is being applied.)

.. I'm hoping I missed some setting to tweak to have each layer perform independently as multiple sequences and not just a summation of the layers
Paranormal Patroler
Each layer sends to one MIDI channel, which is the same as the layer number. So Layer 1 will send out on MIDI channel 1, Layer 2 on MIDI channel 2, etc.

There is no way to change this, if I remember correctly. I'm not sure what the situation is with your device. What you can do is engage Advanced Mode where you can assign different modes to each layer, so that you don't have to have a specific mode on a specific MIDI channel.

I think there is a thread about Advanced Mode here, but I don't recall how to engage it.
XPump
I dug around thru the Tenori posts and found this info:

darenager wrote:
I also discovered that you can reassign the layers to whatever mode you want, which does make it more useful, you have to hold down L1 and L5 whilst powering up to unlock this mode, once done it stays set after power down. Why Yamaha chose not to make this the default is beyond me.

When I get some time I will definitely check this out.

Thanks!
Paranormal Patroler
Make sure that you save your settings so that Advanced Mode is always engaged on your device. It's great, you can swap the Mode on each layer which is fantastic! Imagine 16 layers of bounce ....
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