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Muff's Modules & More
we weren't even testing for that
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Hello! This is a message to everyone who emailed or PM'ed me asking for an exemption to the '100-post rule' for our Buy-Sell-Trade forum.
You didn't get a reply from me because you aren't above the rules. The rules are the same for everyone. I understand your position and I'm sorry I can't help you, but I can't help you. Thanks for understanding! Please enjoy our lovely forum. |
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bbow73
Weteran Viggler
Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Last Visit: 19 May 2013
Posts: 264
Location: Fairfax VA
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 Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Muff Wiggler wrote: | About mixing components -
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...they may have different power and mounting requirements, ... |
what are the options here?
I'm planning on some eurorack and 5U modules.
I guess a custom case is a given, but do I need two different power supplies? (12 and 15v?) Is there a power supply that will do double duty? |
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Muff Wiggler
The cake is a lie.
Joined: 24 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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pretty much, yeah you'll need two PSUs
Eurorack stuff needs +/-12v supplies
5U stuff needs +/-15v supplies
i don't know of any supplies that would put out both of these at the same time.... |
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bbow73
Weteran Viggler
Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Last Visit: 19 May 2013
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Location: Fairfax VA
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 6:33 am Post subject: |
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I'm in the process of ordering my power supplies.
Is a PSU just the power supply or does that imply a complete system (distribution board, wiring, etc)? |
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sandyb
reap what you sow
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Last Visit: 20 May 2013
Posts: 5054
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 6:40 am Post subject: |
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| bbow73 wrote: | I'm in the process of ordering my power supplies.
Is a PSU just the power supply or does that imply a complete system (distribution board, wiring, etc)? |
usually just the power supply. but link what you're looking at and it'll be easy to say for definite
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bbow73
Weteran Viggler
Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Last Visit: 19 May 2013
Posts: 264
Location: Fairfax VA
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 7:09 am Post subject: |
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http://www.modcan.com/bseries/modulesb.html
here are four things I saw on the Modcan site:
Power Supply 50B
Case with wiring and power distribution card (12U wide)
Internal Power supply (rear mount)
19" Rack mount kit (10U wide) |
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sandyb
reap what you sow
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Last Visit: 20 May 2013
Posts: 5054
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| bbow73 wrote: | http://www.modcan.com/bseries/modulesb.html
here are four things I saw on the Modcan site:
Power Supply 50B
Case with wiring and power distribution card (12U wide)
Internal Power supply (rear mount)
19" Rack mount kit (10U wide) |
ah - modcan. have a read of the thread below first then i'd suggest it would be best starting a thread for anything you want to know in the 5U part of the forum.
basically if you are using a modcan case or rack this will come with the distribution boards and cables. the power supply is a separate item (which modcan can also provide).
http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1739
sandy
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os
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Joined: 30 Jun 2009
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bwhittington
Terrifying Brain Secret
Joined: 21 May 2009
Last Visit: 20 May 2013
Posts: 4679
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Muff Wiggler wrote: | Synthesizers.com . . . Downsides - the modules are very, very uninspiring and 'traditional' in the most boring sense of the word, utter lack of innovative and creative features, and no 'experimental' features whatsoever. . . Fans often make quotes like "I want to make a sine wave bass, a detuned saw. Who cares about generating 'experimental' bleeps and farts??? no-one does that, so i don't care that my synth cannot". That comment pretty much defines the DOT COM approach, sadly.
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This description peeved me a bit when I first read it, soon after I assembled my Dotcom system. I didn't comment about it then because it seemed out of place to me as a newbie forum member with a brand new system. As I have gotten to know my system better and better, these remarks irritated me even more. Such a bias against a system seems to have no place in a primer for the beginner.
The Dotcom modules are certainly basic in their design, but the idea that this design is uninspiring says much more to me about the level of experience of the synthesist, at least in terms of using this system.
In terms of traditional sounds, an entire era of electronic music, much of it quite innovative--see Carlos, Tomita--was inspired by a similar feature set in the Moog format.
In terms of experimental blips/noise, I've spent countless evenings engaged in such nonsense over the last few months. What is different about achieving such effects with the basic building blocks of analog synthesis instead of jiggling the "woogle" knob of your Wogglebug is pretty much the difference between baking a pie from scratch and cheating by using a store-bought filling. In one case, the ingredients are your own and you understand the recipe. In the other case . . . you turned on your Wooglebug.
I don't mean to bash Wooglebugs or Bit Crushers or whatever. I'm sure they achieve sounds that would be difficult to muster out of other modules. But I would say that the skills one gains from experience with a system like the Dotcom are more easily transferable to other equipment because the expertise lies in the user, not the engineer that came up with the feature set of some specialized module. I also don't mean to suggest the Dotcom range is perfect, because it's not.
However, if I were to define my own approach to the Dotcom line, I purchased it because it seemed an excellent system to develop and hone my skills with, and because the format and the module designs seemed ripe for my new-found interest in DIY experimentation. I think the closing definition above was written by someone who either got up on the wrong side of the bed that day or who hadn't spent much time with the system he was critiquing. In either case, I think it does a disservice both to the system and the engineer who designed it (and whose livelihood is influenced by such points of view).
I think the description above should be written in a more neutral perspective. Or perhaps all of the pros and cons for this primer should be submitted by an experienced user of each system who better knows its strengths and weaknesses. But, in the least, I will be satisfied to have gotten to add my own two cents to the thread.
Thanks,
Brian
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parasitk
I Play Loco Gigs
Joined: 15 May 2008
Last Visit: 20 May 2013
Posts: 4756
Location: Valley Village, CA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| bwhittington wrote: | This description peeved me a bit when I first read it, soon after I assembled my Dotcom system. I didn't comment about it then because it seemed out of place to me as a newbie forum member with a brand new system. As I have gotten to know my system better and better, these remarks irritated me even more. Such a bias against a system seems to have no place in a primer for the beginner.
<snip other good stuff> |
+1 on this. 
I wrote more, then deleted it, because I actually don't know what else to add.
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I, Parasite | Synth fuckery on Soundcloud
| dkcg wrote: | | But in the end, it felt like I was playing WiiSoundMasterJedi. |
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DGTom
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Last Visit: 10 May 2013
Posts: 2627
Location: Pt.Adelaide, Sth.Aust.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| bwhittington wrote: | | What is different about achieving such effects with the basic building blocks of analog synthesis instead of jiggling the "woogle" knob of your Wogglebug is pretty much the difference between baking a pie from scratch and cheating by using a store-bought filling. In one case, the ingredients are your own and you understand the recipe. In the other case . . . you turned on your Wooglebug. |
Mexican standoff!
Whilst I agree with the general thrust of what you're saying it seems to me you've discovered how easy it is to fall into the trap of broad strokes.
Using the the wogglebug as our example (poor little bug getting picked on) It might be possible to patch together something which, at times, sounds the same & or at other times behaves the same, but lookng at the dot com range it would take a massive amount of modules & require knowledge way outside the remit of the synthesist / muscian. You would need the schematic & a sound understanding of the ccts. theory of operation. You would actually need to find a way to re-create what is happening inside the wogglebug at a sub-pcb level, patching up the inner workings of an IC is technically possible, but I shouldn't imagine it'd be much fun.
The cake analogy works to an extent, but we're not talking about a simple chocalate cake here! I've yet to find a packet mix which actually cooks itself & comes out as a differant flavour every other time (well, if burnt & more burnt are differant flavours I may have the jump on that one) As we can see in various threads, there is alot more to using a wogglebug in an effective, musical context than just 'switching it on'
There is no escaping the fact that the dot com system is heavily biased toward more traditional synthesis, this is no bad thing. I would say, like the Moog, its a system geared towards keyboards & trained musicians whereas I'm sure I've read a description of the Wogglebug by Grant that hints that it is not a module suited to interfacing with keyboards &/or scales - not to say you can't tho.
Do these differances make either better or worse? of course not, as you say, its down to the user |
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bwhittington
Terrifying Brain Secret
Joined: 21 May 2009
Last Visit: 20 May 2013
Posts: 4679
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| Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| DGTom wrote: |
Whilst I agree with the general thrust of what you're saying it seems to me you've discovered how easy it is to fall into the trap of broad strokes. |
Granted. I've never even touched a Wooglebug, and you can see that immediately. Now look back at the original post. Broad strokes?
I expect most people would accept the notion that the Dotcom is a model of more traditional synthesis. It's basic feature set is 40 years old, after all. I'd say that's a more than fair statement. Comparing your phrasing with the original post--uninspiring, boring, utterly not innovative, etc, and that ridiculous "quote"--I would suggest there are dozens of more neutral ways of to make the traditional point without injecting a disparaging view.
If bug music is someone's thing, there are manufacturers specifically geared to that, but the idea that the Dotcom isn't versatile enough to make some noise is . . . silly. I do it all the time. And you can even buy a Wooglebug in 5u now. 
| DGTom wrote: | | Mexican standoff! |
Is that an Alamo reference? I am a Texan, you know!
Cheers,
Brian |
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DGTom
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Last Visit: 10 May 2013
Posts: 2627
Location: Pt.Adelaide, Sth.Aust.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| bwhittington wrote: |
| DGTom wrote: | | Mexican standoff! |
Is that an Alamo reference? I am a Texan, you know!
Cheers,
Brian |
I really had no idea! Just an off-hand remark in referance to the fact that, as I see it, there are stances being assumed based on preferance & experiance & while the positions taken are differant the way they are being expressed is the same.
Yeah, comparing using a Wogglebug to making a packet-mix cake is as broad as "uninspiring, boring, utterly not innovative" in my books, but I dunno, where I come from only stoners & grubby students make cakes from packets 
"utterly not innovative" seems pretty fair if, by your own admission, we're talking about a system whose "basic feature set is 40 years old, after all."
I don't think there is any malicous intent in what Muff wrote, I have no reason to doubt its based totally on his experiance (quoteage) & I doubt very much he intended it to be taken quite as personnal as you seem to have.
We might all have differant preferances & we'll all make our own choices based on that, but we all have one thing in comman - modulars & the hours of masochistic, OCD enjoyment we derive from them  |
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bwhittington
Terrifying Brain Secret
Joined: 21 May 2009
Last Visit: 20 May 2013
Posts: 4679
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| Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| DGTom wrote: | | bwhittington wrote: |
| DGTom wrote: | | Mexican standoff! |
Is that an Alamo reference? I am a Texan, you know!
Cheers,
Brian |
I really had no idea! Just an off-hand remark in referance to the fact that, as I see it, there are stances being assumed based on preferance & experiance & while the positions taken are differant the way they are being expressed is the same. |
I shoulda put a lot of  by that.
Cheers,
Brian
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sduck
WTF?
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
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Location: Vortepexaion, TN, USA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| Now that this thread has gotten all political and stuff maybe it should be un-stickied? |
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Human Koala
Common Wiggler
Joined: 14 Oct 2009
Last Visit: 29 Mar 2013
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:37 am Post subject: |
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Hi guys,
this is my first post here and first experience in real modular :
i've used a clavia modular and do a lot of computer patching in pd and max/msp
so that is my question :
a little reedtion of SEM semimodular is coming to my home with a midi to cv interface
and i'm looking for a way to compliment and extends this little beast
my first move would be a sherman filterbank 2 with a little maq 16/3 but maybe there is a better move for the same price ?
thanx in advance
HK |
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Babaluma
Manual Gain Rider
Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Last Visit: 20 May 2013
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Location: Milan
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bwhittington
Terrifying Brain Secret
Joined: 21 May 2009
Last Visit: 20 May 2013
Posts: 4679
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:27 am Post subject: |
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HK, it sounds like you might be on the right track if you are planning to keep the computer as a focus of your work. The Doepfer MAQ 16/3's are feature-laden, sync easily via MIDI, and will give you tactile control over MIDI as well as CV devices.
What they *don't* do is interact well with modular gear. It sends CV, but it doesn't receive CV, so there is no sync in with your LFO's, triggering it with the gate from a step of another sequencer, or that sort of thing. In exchange, you get pattern memory and a whole host of interesting MIDI parameters, but if you see yourself going with a modular CV set up, the MAQ will seem limited at some point.
Working with the gear you have, the MAQ is a great choice, but I just wanted to clarify the difference, which was completely beyond me when I was getting started. Oh, and the Sherman Filterbank is an awesome box. I could see you having a lot of fun using it with the SEM.
Cheers,
Brian
quote="Human Koala"]Hi guys,
this is my first post here and first experience in real modular :
i've used a clavia modular and do a lot of computer patching in pd and max/msp
so that is my question :
a little reedtion of SEM semimodular is coming to my home with a midi to cv interface
and i'm looking for a way to compliment and extends this little beast
my first move would be a sherman filterbank 2 with a little maq 16/3 but maybe there is a better move for the same price ?
thanx in advance
HK[/quote] |
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Muff Wiggler
The cake is a lie.
Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Last Visit: 19 May 2013
Posts: 6541
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| bwhittington wrote: | | Muff Wiggler wrote: | Synthesizers.com . . . Downsides - the modules are very, very uninspiring and 'traditional' in the most boring sense of the word, utter lack of innovative and creative features, and no 'experimental' features whatsoever. . . Fans often make quotes like "I want to make a sine wave bass, a detuned saw. Who cares about generating 'experimental' bleeps and farts??? no-one does that, so i don't care that my synth cannot". That comment pretty much defines the DOT COM approach, sadly.
|
This description peeved me a bit when I first read it, soon after I assembled my Dotcom system. I didn't comment about it then because it seemed out of place to me as a newbie forum member with a brand new system. As I have gotten to know my system better and better, these remarks irritated me even more. Such a bias against a system seems to have no place in a primer for the beginner.
The Dotcom modules are certainly basic in their design, but the idea that this design is uninspiring says much more to me about the level of experience of the synthesist, at least in terms of using this system.
In terms of traditional sounds, an entire era of electronic music, much of it quite innovative--see Carlos, Tomita--was inspired by a similar feature set in the Moog format.
In terms of experimental blips/noise, I've spent countless evenings engaged in such nonsense over the last few months. What is different about achieving such effects with the basic building blocks of analog synthesis instead of jiggling the "woogle" knob of your Wogglebug is pretty much the difference between baking a pie from scratch and cheating by using a store-bought filling. In one case, the ingredients are your own and you understand the recipe. In the other case . . . you turned on your Wooglebug.
I don't mean to bash Wooglebugs or Bit Crushers or whatever. I'm sure they achieve sounds that would be difficult to muster out of other modules. But I would say that the skills one gains from experience with a system like the Dotcom are more easily transferable to other equipment because the expertise lies in the user, not the engineer that came up with the feature set of some specialized module. I also don't mean to suggest the Dotcom range is perfect, because it's not.
However, if I were to define my own approach to the Dotcom line, I purchased it because it seemed an excellent system to develop and hone my skills with, and because the format and the module designs seemed ripe for my new-found interest in DIY experimentation. I think the closing definition above was written by someone who either got up on the wrong side of the bed that day or who hadn't spent much time with the system he was critiquing. In either case, I think it does a disservice both to the system and the engineer who designed it (and whose livelihood is influenced by such points of view).
I think the description above should be written in a more neutral perspective. Or perhaps all of the pros and cons for this primer should be submitted by an experienced user of each system who better knows its strengths and weaknesses. But, in the least, I will be satisfied to have gotten to add my own two cents to the thread.
Thanks,
Brian |
you know what? I totally agree  Many thanks for pointing that out, I am going to update it.
It's been a long long time since I wrote that post or even think about it - and it is certainly not meant as any difinitive review, and most certainly not meant as a slight towards any manufacturer.
When I wrote that post I had just spent about a year researching modular synths and talking to people who used them and thought some general advice was sorely lacking, so I threw this post up way back when the forum was brand new, mostly to have some content.
But in retrospect, I totally agree that the comments you point out have no place at all, and most likely would be construed in an incorrect fashion.
At the time I wrote that, and perhaps still to some extent, I found the approach of simple, low level building block synthesis, without any overt flexibility or patch programmability rather uncompelling.... however my approach and goals with synthesis are not the same as other people, and indeed someone who was seeking a moog-modular style system would be most well advised to pursue Synthesizers.com
Also, I have to say that Roger has done an outstanding job with this line - from everything I can tell, the speed of manufacturing and delivery, as well as customer support is outstanding. I have owned a few of the modules, all bought second-hand, and the quality is as good as you will find anywhere. In specific, I *adore* the appoach to construction with all pots and jacks on headers and no PCB-mounts. Makes lifetime maintanance a simple task. Very, very few manufacturers do this, only STG and Wiard 300 come to mind, but there are probably others as well.
Finally, the value of these modules is in my opinion the best you will find - the prices are extremely attractive and the selection of modules is super comprehensive.
So, I most sincerely apologize for my previous misleading comment and am happy to set the record straight about my opinion of these....thanks for pointing this out. |
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dude
fuck yeah!
Joined: 05 Jul 2009
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Pockets McCoy
Boll Weevils In Yo Field
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Last Visit: 22 Nov 2012
Posts: 420
Location: New Orleans
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Muff Wiggler wrote: | | I *adore* the appoach to construction with all pots and jacks on headers and no PCB-mounts. Makes lifetime maintanance a simple task. Very, very few manufacturers do this, only STG and Wiard 300 come to mind, but there are probably others as well. |
They're not on headers, but STS/Serge also does the whole flying wires thing with the pots, jacks, and switches, which I'm eternally thankful for. |
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