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Serge TPS build questions
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next [all]
Author Serge TPS build questions
yan6
Hi there, I am beginning to build my first Serge panels, from Dimitri’s group buy and will be starting with the TPS. I need a bit of assistance in figuring out what boards are needed to put together the TPS.

So far, what I understand is: The heart of the TPS is based on the CGS87 (16 step). Please see the attached photo; these are the connections that seem obvious to me. This leads me to my first set of questions what will “Press”, “ABCD”, “VERT” & “OFF” connect to?



The bottom of the TPS will require 2xCGS86 and 1 CGS86D. Are the 16 “Stage Outputs” the “Gate Outputs” from the CGS86?
What are the 16 “Stage Inputs” connected to?

Thanks
tojpeters
CGS 87 board-XP stage select in,PO stage pulse out.
Vertical sequence handled by a CGS28 sequential switch.
yan6
tojpeters, thanks for the reply!

I still need a bit of handholding oops

I think a large part of my issue is I'm not sure of the full functionality of the Serge programmer sequencer. I watched a few videos but am still not 100% on all the features. As a sequencer I guess the clock bumps it along from one step to the other, and the value of the output pots appear on the "A", "B", C", "D" outputs accordingly or combined at "ABCD". In this mode is there a gate for each step and where does it come from, the "Stage Output"?

What will the "PRESS", "VERT", & "OFF" features do

EDIT: I have been comparing this with the TKB and figure "PRESS" is the pressure output from the keyboard
GrantB
PRESS is pressure from the TRK board
VERT is the vertical clock (steps through ABCD) for the Sequential Switch
ABCD is the output of the Sequential Switch

OFF I would like to know what this is intended for. The Sequential Switch has an "Inhibit" input, but I would guess this is a gate input, not a bipolar (black) input as shown in the graphic.

I think the "Reset" input on the Sequential Switch would be useful too. I will be drilling another hole for this so I can do repeating sequences between 17 and 64 steps long. With an external pulse divider.
yan6
Things are clearing up up a bit now but I still have lots of questions & I will try and focus them into bite size pieces. My end goal is a simple wiring diagram to assist me and anyone else needing it. I would also like to provide lots of build pics along the way.

I will focus on gate this round:

Does the gate output of the touch keyboard (CGS86) connect to the "PB" of the controller (CGS87)?

From a functionality point could someone explain the use/functionality of the Stage Outputs and Stage Inputs?
cyklopljud
tojpeters wrote:
CGS 87 board-XP stage select in,PO stage pulse out.
Vertical sequence handled by a CGS28 sequential switch.


Tojpeters, are you sure the CGS87 is needed?
I just received my panel and PCBs that Dmitri recommended in the text in the panel order, there is no CGS87:
--------
From a facebook entry by Dmirti
Not exactly a TKB. Does most of what a TKB can while using all easy to find parts. & adding some functions. Including MIX CV inputs for each channel & Stage select jacks.
https://scontent-2.2914.fna.fbcdn.net/…/10539192_1015277280…
CGS87 set x2 (designed but not yet released), CGS86 16-pad, CGS94 x4, CGS88, CGS91x2
----------

But I don't really understand where Vert and Off are connected, I was just now trying to work out how to connect the bi directional router, any ideas?
I guess I need to write to Dmitri and get his view.
Chaotic
Here are my view. Correct me if I say something wrong hihi
Looking forward to implement the TPS to my system.

Cgs87 and cgs88 are needed.
Dmitri only offer big pcb´s from Ken. Like cgs86, cgs91 and cgs94. Rest of the pcbs do we have to order directly from Ken.
Then we save the extra cost with big pcbs from Ken and he dont need to use many large tubes to send them. Only one big to Dmitri.

Vertical have to be conected to cgs88. (not cgs28)
Four outputs from cgs87s goes through cgs88 to panel ABCD

Stage in/out?
In: you can override the sequence with a trig/gate pulse. With no trig to up/down you can trig each stage form another sources
Out: Here you can take the pulse from each stage to do something else you need it to do. You also can patch "out" from one stage and patch it to "in" in another stage. There you have a shorter sequence.
cyklopljud
Chaotic wrote:
Here are my view. Correct me if I say something wrong hihi
Looking forward to implement the TPS to my system.

Cgs87 and cgs88 are needed.
Dmitri only offer big pcb´s from Ken. Like cgs86, cgs91 and cgs94. Rest of the pcbs do we have to order directly from Ken.
Then we save the extra cost with big pcbs from Ken and he dont need to use many large tubes to send them. Only one big to Dmitri.

Vertical have to be conected to cgs88. (not cgs28)
Four outputs from cgs87s goes through cgs88 to panel ABCD

Stage in/out?
In: you can override the sequence with a trig/gate pulse. With no trig to up/down you can trig each stage form another sources
Out: Here you can take the pulse from each stage to do something else you need it to do. You also can patch "out" from one stage and patch it to "in" in another stage. There you have a shorter sequence.


This is also what I was thinking, the Mix ABCD are from the Bi-Directional Switch.

Sorry if I implied that Dmitri was sending/selling all PCBs, I was just quoting what PCBs were needed from the text he posted, (This is my 9th CGS panel).

Its funny this panel is the only ones that has had me scratching my head. I guess because there isn't one full schematic for the panel, maybe we should do that....

I wrote Dmitri about his view anyway.
Chaotic
cyklopljud wrote:
This is my 9th CGS panel).

Its funny this panel is the only ones that has had me scratching my head. I guess because there isn't one full schematic for the panel, maybe we should do that....


Wow.
I see I'm only a novice here. Only 4 panels done and one approx 60% done (La Bestia). Also have a SQP6 (cgs) built by a swedish guy.
cyklopljud
Chaotic wrote:
cyklopljud wrote:
This is my 9th CGS panel).

Its funny this panel is the only ones that has had me scratching my head. I guess because there isn't one full schematic for the panel, maybe we should do that....


Wow.
I see I'm only a novice here. Only 4 panels done and one approx 60% done (La Bestia). Also have a SQP6 (cgs) built by a swedish guy.


Didn't mean to boast, was just illustrating that I understood the process.
When building these things it starts to go fast ;-)
Chaotic
cyklopljud wrote:

Didn't mean to boast, was just illustrating that I understood the process.
When building these things it starts to go fast ;-)


It´s a drug nanners
tojpeters
I still think CGS28. Mix in (pad MIX) is OFF,allows an offset to be added to the ABCD out. I have added vertical sequencing to several SWAMP panels with CGS28.
tojpeters
Sequencer output for row A goes to I1 on CGS28.
Row B to I2,Row C to I3, row D to I4
Gate output on CGS28 P5 to RST(reset in)
Up/Down switch hardwired to up position. (SW to +VE)
VERT to CLK
OFF jack to MIX
I'm sure of this.
Maybe not the only way but this will work.
tojpeters
I'm guessing a lot of these are going to be used desktop style. If so then you are staring at a 3"x17" blank space on your Hammond boat.
Why not use that space?
10 people in a group buy would make this affordable.
Run/hold/skip mod,selectable gates per stage
Gates will respond to rising edge of clock signal or trailing edge-PWM on your clock will allow you to choose where in the step your gate is active.
Solo mod allows touch pads to be used as keyboard (row d) while the first 3 rows are sequencing.

cyklopljud
tojpeters wrote:
Sequencer output for row A goes to I1 on CGS28.
Row B to I2,Row C to I3, row D to I4
Gate output on CGS28 P5 to RST(reset in)
Up/Down switch hardwired to up position. (SW to +VE)
VERT to CLK
OFF jack to MIX
I'm sure of this.
Maybe not the only way but this will work.


Interesting, but I think Dmitri had the idea to us the CGS88 as a quad switch.

This link is for the original serge PCB
http://www.serge.synth.net/modules/r4_rou/index_quad.html

This link is for the CGS PCB look at the second schematic
http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs88_bds.html

I don't have the complete overview of this at the moment can you @Tojpeters see this working?

Also @Tojpeters where do you mean we have a spare 3" in the boat?
This is a full panel 7" x 17" serge panel style to fit the Hammond or Bud.
tojpeters
I mean the front of the boat. And what do you suggest for the OFF jack?
cyklopljud
tojpeters wrote:
I mean the front of the boat. And what do you suggest for the OFF jack?


Ah ha I get it, the front face of the boat, and now I remember reading your post about maximising space using switched potentiometers etc, which I have done thanks to your advice. You are the king of DIY density Rockin' Banana!

Re: the CGS88 as the switch:
I was wondering if you have an idea about connections using the recommended CGS88?
(This was the PCB that I guess most ordered on the text about the panel buy).

The off jack is perplexing!

I have had no reply from Dmitri as of yet, I think that he may be able to clear it up?
tojpeters
wire per the 2nd schematic and send the output to a CGS04 DC MIXER to be mixed with the OFF input,unity gain,output to ABCD out?
modintx
tojpeters wrote:
I'm guessing a lot of these are going to be used desktop style. If so then you are staring at a 3"x17" blank space on your Hammond boat.
Why not use that space?
10 people in a group buy would make this affordable.
Run/hold/skip mod,selectable gates per stage
Gates will respond to rising edge of clock signal or trailing edge-PWM on your clock will allow you to choose where in the step your gate is active.
Solo mod allows touch pads to be used as keyboard (row d) while the first 3 rows are sequencing.



Love this idea - please count me in for one of these :-) w00t
lintfresh
Very cool proposal, tojpeters. I'm likely in as well.

How would the mods be executed?
How do you plan on marrying the panel to the front of the boat?

tojpeters wrote:
I'm guessing a lot of these are going to be used desktop style. If so then you are staring at a 3"x17" blank space on your Hammond boat.
Why not use that space?
10 people in a group buy would make this affordable.
Run/hold/skip mod,selectable gates per stage
Gates will respond to rising edge of clock signal or trailing edge-PWM on your clock will allow you to choose where in the step your gate is active.
Solo mod allows touch pads to be used as keyboard (row d) while the first 3 rows are sequencing.

tojpeters
The mods are mostly CGS boards wired in clever ways.
Most is very basic building block stuff,you could do it all on perfboard easily,but I think that would scare people off.
As far as attaching the panel there would be the hard way or the other hard way.You could simply cut a big rectangle out leaving a half inch border or drill hole and have the switches go through 2 layers. The holes could be a little sloppy as they will be covered by the faceplate.
The mods,while somewhat untested,are really no brainers-just need a good wire guide with no misteaks.
lintfresh
Cool, that's what I figured.

Man I hate metal work...

Fuck it, I'm in for one, Jon. hihi
tojpeters
That takes us to 5.
I figure once we get close publish the wiring diagrams and other drawings and see if everyone can follow them or spots any faults. This will be complex.
yan6
I might be interested in the mod panel, depending on the complexity 8_) I guess it cant be that complicated with wiring diagrams Guinness ftw!

I would like to see about doing up some wiring diagrams for the rest of the TPS as well. I have done a bit more in paint, like the first shitty picture hihi but with the other boards added in. I will try and look at it tonight and compare it with the latest updates posted here. Once there is some consensus I can put some more effort into it.

[quote]Sequencer output for row A goes to I1 on CGS28.
Row B to I2,Row C to I3, row D to I4 /quote]

is this wired in parallel to the top left outputs on the panel "A", "B", "C", "D"?
tojpeters
Series. You couldn't fit 2 wires into 1 hole on the PCB.
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