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Jürgen Haible Krautrock phaser BUILD THREAD
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next [all]
Author Jürgen Haible Krautrock phaser BUILD THREAD
LektroiD
Despite various shreads of information in various corners of the internet, It seems there is no build thread here for this awesome project. Hence this post.

Any build info, problems, solutions, etc. Please share here.
fragletrollet
I`ve made a Mouser cart for the components that are not included in the "Rare Components Kit" sold by Thonk.

http://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=0ead3 ebc4a

I would love it if someone could go through it and verify it, as I`m a total noob. I`ve followed the Krautrock BOM listed on J. Haible`s site:

http://jhaible.com/legacy/compact_clone/jh_krautrock_phaser_bom.pdf

The quantity of the 22uf and 100uf electrolytics are not specified on the BOM, so are just listed as one (1). Also not included are the SMD bypass caps, would love some input here. Also the potentiometers are NOT added.

Also, as stated on Haible`s site, it does not include any of the chassis mounted components. Not sure how many jacks would be needed, for example.

Again, I`m a total noob on components sourcing and have not actually ordered this BOM yet, so it`s NOT VERIFIED.

Hoping that someone can go through it and fix any mistakes and add the last components!

Guinness ftw!
talfred
fragletrollet wrote:
I`ve made a Mouser cart for the components that are not included in the "Rare Components Kit" sold by Thonk.

http://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=0ead3 ebc4a

I would love it if someone could go through it and verify it, as I`m a total noob. I`ve followed the Krautrock BOM listed on J. Haible`s site:

http://jhaible.com/legacy/compact_clone/jh_krautrock_phaser_bom.pdf

The quantity of the 22uf and 100uf electrolytics are not specified on the BOM, so are just listed as one (1). Also not included are the SMD bypass caps, would love some input here. Also the potentiometers are NOT added.

Also, as stated on Haible`s site, it does not include any of the chassis mounted components. Not sure how many jacks would be needed, for example.

Again, I`m a total noob on components sourcing and have not actually ordered this BOM yet, so it`s NOT VERIFIED.

Hoping that someone can go through it and fix any mistakes and add the last components!

Guinness ftw!


Bra jobba, mann!
Luka
here is the original thread from e-m

http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-20373.html
LED-man
here is my Build guide and further infos..
in last 12month i finished 6 Krautrock Phaser, one of them was a prototyp from Randomsource

https://www.dsl-man.de/display/MAIN/Juergen+Haible+Krautrockphaser+in+ MOTM
fragletrollet
So, anyone getting on this hyper
LektroiD
Looking for a power supply for this, as I'll be building a standalone unit. I was thinking of getting this Toroidal Transformer, Mini, 3.2VA, 2 X 15V. Would that be the right one for the job (it says it has 2x 15V)? Or, would I need to also add a bridge rectifier to split it to +/- V?
magman
Looking at the circuit diagram, this shows 18V secondaries as inputs to the board, but it looks like there is one with the right voltage in this range (if Farnell stock it that is), so you may be in luck.

You don't need a separate bridge rectifier, as the rectifier diodes, fuses and caps are already to use on the standard board. Jüergen designed those in from the start.

I've got one of these in my workstack, though it may be a while till it gets built.

Regards

Magman
LektroiD
magman wrote:
Looking at the circuit diagram, this shows 18V secondaries as inputs to the board, but it looks like there is one with the right voltage in this range (if Farnell stock it that is), so you may be in luck.

You don't need a separate bridge rectifier, as the rectifier diodes, fuses and caps are already to use on the standard board. Jüergen designed those in from the start.

I've got one of these in my workstack, though it may be a while till it gets built.

Regards

Magman


The datasheet doesn't give much away about these, just gives a list of the various models available, and I have no experience with toroidal transformers. I presume the 2x 18V means it is +/-18V ? As that is what the circuit needs to run, or would I need two of these?
magman
LektroiD wrote:
The datasheet doesn't give much away about these, just gives a list of the various models available, and I have no experience with toroidal transformers. I presume the 2x 18V means it is +/-18V ? As that is what the circuit needs to run, or would I need two of these?


Hmm, I'm getting a picture here that you have not worked with mains power supplies before.

You have to be very careful when working with mains power supplies, as you are working with something that can kill you. The correct mains termination (possibly an IEC socket or a proper captive lead connection), fusing and insulation of all connections are all aspects that need careful attention.

Getting back to the transformer (it doesn't matter whether it I toroidal or not), the connections are a mains input with 2 wires, then in this case two secondary windings, or 2 sets of 2 wires. These are all AC so are not polarised. The Krautrock board has a connector for these 4 secondary wires.

Hope this helps

Magman
LektroiD
magman wrote:
LektroiD wrote:
The datasheet doesn't give much away about these, just gives a list of the various models available, and I have no experience with toroidal transformers. I presume the 2x 18V means it is +/-18V ? As that is what the circuit needs to run, or would I need two of these?


Hmm, I'm getting a picture here that you have not worked with mains power supplies before.

You have to be very careful when working with mains power supplies, as you are working with something that can kill you. The correct mains termination (possibly an IEC socket or a proper captive lead connection), fusing and insulation of all connections are all aspects that need careful attention.

Getting back to the transformer (it doesn't matter whether it I toroidal or not), the connections are a mains input with 2 wires, then in this case two secondary windings, or 2 sets of 2 wires. These are all AC so are not polarised. The Krautrock board has a connector for these 4 secondary wires.

Hope this helps

Magman


Well, I have worked with mains power, but followed the instructions very closely for the Power One supply in my modular, as I understand the risks. I will be using an IEC socket for this too. I just want to clarify everything thoroughly for obvious reasons.

I'm assuming the two centre pins on the PCB header would be neutral, the outer ones 18VAC.

My next question though, is which power rating would power this unit adequately. I'm assuming the lowest available (89mA)?
Luka
i just powered my standalone unit up with a 16vac wallwort - the original version had an on board psu - not sure if the new on does
magman
Sorry, wasn't trying to be condescending, just wanted to make sure you were safe. Mr. Green

Actually, looking at the circuit diagram again and the PCB, the middle pin doesn't appear to be connected to anything. With pin 1 on the connector being the one with the square pad, connect one pair of wires from the transformer secondaries for one winding to pins 1 and 2 and the other winding to pins 4 and 5.

You can check which wires are which on the secondary windings just by measuring the resistance, you should get a resistance measurement for each pair, nothing if you mix the wires up.

I'm not sure about the current required though, as I've not found a measurement as yet from anyone who has completed the project. It might be worth browsing the original thread on Electro-Music to see if anyone has mentioned this in there. The one thing I am conscious of though is that if you use all three bulbs (including one on the front panel) these can take 100mA at 7V each to power when fully on. In this case, a beafier transformer than 3.2VA may be needed. I'll need to dig into this a bit more to see what the actual current consumption will be.

Regards

Magman
LektroiD
magman wrote:
Sorry, wasn't trying to be condescending, just wanted to make sure you were safe. Mr. Green

Actually, looking at the circuit diagram again and the PCB, the middle pin doesn't appear to be connected to anything. With pin 1 on the connector being the one with the square pad, connect one pair of wires from the transformer secondaries for one winding to pins 1 and 2 and the other winding to pins 4 and 5.

You can check which wires are which on the secondary windings just by measuring the resistance, you should get a resistance measurement for each pair, nothing if you mix the wires up.

I'm not sure about the current required though, as I've not found a measurement as yet from anyone who has completed the project. It might be worth browsing the original thread on Electro-Music to see if anyone has mentioned this in there. The one thing I am conscious of though is that if you use all three bulbs (including one on the front panel) these can take 100mA at 7V each to power when fully on. In this case, a beafier transformer than 3.2VA may be needed. I'll need to dig into this a bit more to see what the actual current consumption will be.

Regards

Magman


No need to apologise, I ask a lot of questions to be absolutely certain, I'd rather be considered as a novice; I find it's the best way reinforce my knowledge thoroughly. Particularly when it comes to mains electricity.

The two outer pins on the PCB header go to each of the fuses, the centre two pins link, then continue on the opposite side of the PCB. So your suggestion makes sense. Again, I'd rather be 100% certain, and not risk burning out such a desirable PCB.
*edit* I just noticed the centre pin which as you say connects to nothing. I have no idea how I missed that, for some reason I saw it as a 4 pin header. My bad.

If each lamp is 100mA, and it needs to power 3x lamps, then the minimum I'd need for a consistent current flow would be 300mA, then there's all the opamps to be powered, so I'm thinking something nearer the 500mA mark would be more suitable.

Your help and advice is very much appreciated. Better to be safe than sorry wink
LektroiD
Does anyone have a panel wiring diagram for the Random Source PCB? There's a few things different to the original, such as the 2/4/6 stage jumper/switch?
LektroiD
...also the 470K res "trimmer or link" doesn't make much sense on the Random Source board; next to it it says "LINK 1-2 or RES POT", yet the res pot doesn't link up with anything unless you link 1-2, so why does it say "or"?

Very confusing!

Anyone have any ideas on this, or the aforementioned switch/jumper?
LektroiD
I get the feeling I'm talking to myself here...

What's the purpose of this forum? I thought it was to help fellow builders. Clearly I'm wrong here...

I'll just keep bumping the post until I get some help. Otherwise I've wasted money buying something that is impossible to build.

Surely SOMEBODY knows how to wire the extra additions on the Random Source boards?
LED-man
The schematics shows the wiring.
LektroiD
LED-man wrote:
The schematics shows the wiring.


So where's the schematic for the new revision? I can only find the original JH one, minus the extra additions found on the Random Source board.

Please link the new schematic, thanks.
LektroiD
Would anyone be kind enough to link me the new schematics with the additional stage switch wiring and res pot jumper option. According to LED-man they exist somewhere, but I can't find them anywhere...
muckmires
My board is on order, to be shipped from Thonk on July 1. When I get it I'll be here asking questions as well!!! Don't give up!
magman
Hey man, it's cool, this thing called work sometimes gets in the way, give us a chance. Mr. Green

OK, after a look at the new PCB for the RES pot, the new design gives you a few options. If you want to use the trimmer onboard, you need a link from 1-2, or alternatively you can use an off board pot which means you run three wires from LINK pads and putting a shorting link across the trimmer connections.

For the stages, you can either put jumpers on the board and use shorting links to select the number of stages or you can wire to a DPDT ON-ON-ON type switch for an off board stage selection.

Regards

Magman
Mr. Enjin
I randomly stumbled into the Thonk store this morning and saw these boards available again, so eXXXcited! MY ASS IS BLEEDING
LektroiD
I've ordered a 15VA 430mA toroidal. Hopefully that'll be enough to power this puppy… I'll post my results when it's built
jhulk
it states you only need 2 smd caps if using the lm741 opamps but if you are going to use better or newer types opamps then you will need to add the smd caps if it oscillates

which means trial and error on the part of the person who is trying different opamps

i am using the CA3140E which is a direct replacement

i have also fitted a 3 way switch so that i can switch from 2 - 4 6 pole operation and added the res pot

still to design the front panel yet though thinking a hammond case off board pots and switch as a stand alone unit
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