Muff's Modules & More

felix · Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:58 pm Post subject: Borg = teh awesumz

Finally got it fired up.
Fucking awesome!
I think I need a second, but first, everything else M/W.

The Chewbacca Defense

Wookielicker!

questionable · Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:09 pm Post subject:

Which one did you get, Borg 1 or 2? I've got a 2, but could be convinced to get a 1 if people think it's equally awesome but reasonably different.

bsmith · Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:29 pm Post subject:

I've got both and they're verrry different and both awesome. Borg 1 is smoother/mellower, much longer decay, I'd use the word elegant - does 'nice' well. Maybe a little more Buchlaish? To my ears it is, so far at least. Borg 2 is very aggressive and bratty next to it - I've seen the word snarl used, and especially next to the borg 1 that is the best word for it to me. Borg 2 can be leashed and the borg 1 can be kicked in the ass but neither can get very close to what the other is capable of - at least that's what I've found in the short time I've had them. I popped the jumper off the borg 2 today and it was sooo intense - put it back on after a while, just too much too fast for me with the resonance - will take it off again I'm sure, but think I'll use it more with it on. Checked out the borg 1 with jumper off when I got it and it had alot more resonance available, but didn't have that pissed off rabies thing like the borg 2. They really just sound alot different, beauty or beast kind of trip, cool choice to have. I'm really into having both - used together you can have a shitload of fun, and it's a broad palette between the two.

questionable · Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:46 pm Post subject:

Thanks, that's exactly the kind of answer I was looking for.

felix · Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:58 pm Post subject:

I got the Borg2. I have plans for a 2nd, but it sounds like it's worth getting the Borg1 too.

I haven't played with the jumper yet, but I've found the Borg2 to be a very nice quick LPG, but not too quick not so quick as to be snippy. I haven't decided yet if I like the QMMG or the Borg2 better as an LPG.

I'm loving the filter sound and the resonance is very nice. It doesn't blow off into space really fast like the QMMG can, and it's sweep is nice and fluid, and even with high resonances can remain smooth and not really crunchy/nasally. The BP resonantor mode is fantastic and my main motivator for getting a 2nd Borg.

I really like the 2nd output as an option. It sounds just different enough without being wildly different/overdriven, which is what I expected for some reason. It's a lot more subtle than that, and that's appreciated here.

thetwlo · Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:29 am Post subject:

and there's a DIP to make it harsher! perfect! still like the qmmg but keep thinking of replacing with more borgs. yeah, might do that.

questionable · Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:00 pm Post subject:

Yup, really like the Borg. I don't know what it is about these Wiard modules that I like so much. I'm just oddly compelled to own them all. To that end, I may have "accidentally" bought an Envelator and Noisering today. Should be fun.

J3RK · Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:48 pm Post subject:

questionable · Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:03 pm Post subject:

That's going to be a great system, J3rk, can't wait to see how your case comes along. The white knobs on the Borg 1 make me a little bit sad, though...

felix · Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:17 am Post subject:

xpander · Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:01 am Post subject:

it's about time to drop by your modular again!

applause

bsmith · Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:25 am Post subject:

Noticed a big difference in the frequency range between my Borg 1 and 2 and asked Josh about it, and he ended up walking me through calibrating, which it appeared would do the borg 2 some good. Put in lpg mode with the frequency between 10 and 11, and adjust the trim on the pcb until audible pitch is just on the verge of being completely shut down. Turning the trim pot full clockwise shuts it off, so started there and worked counter clockwise. I used my borg 1 as a reference to get the borg 2 as close as I could to and popped the output to a scope, bopping back and forth until the borg 2 was matching the borg 1 amplitude-wise with them set up as identically as I could get them with the frequency on the front. Josh, if you read that and I did it incorrectly, please point it out!
Here's some more specific observations than using just adjectives like bratty and elegant like I did earlier. The decay on the borg 1 is waaay longer - using an envelator cranked down to a click I was measuring decay of up to nearly 8 seconds in spectre with lower pitched notes (seeing this , not hearing all of it). Borg 2 I was seeing more like up to 5 seconds, more often just above 4.
With that kind of click envelope the borg 2 is much much louder in lpg mode. This evens out quite a bit (not nearly all the way though) as you give them longer envelopes - I guess the slower vactrol in the borg 1 which results in a longer decay would result in a slower attack as well which may account for this? Results in very different timbres.
Borg 2 is just a bit louder generally, and brighter too. After calibrating and comparing the two you see more 'hair' coming from the borg 2 looking at the same waveform - in fact that hair may have thrown me just a little when calibrating now that I think about it. No biggee, not very long hair, but you can sure hear it as well as see it..
Anyway, just spent a little while messing with this and thought I'd share what I found... They're very different sounding devices, and it's sure cool to have both.

questionable · Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:07 pm Post subject:

Wow, that's a huge difference in decay times. Good info, thanks.

jonkull · Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:11 pm Post subject:

Chuck E. Jesus · Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:02 pm Post subject:

uhhh...there's more than one Borg for Euro?

J3RK · Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:12 pm Post subject:

Borg One (white knobs, internally similar to the 300 series Borg.) Borg Two, (black knobs, internally similar to the 1200 series Borg.)

There are threads about this very thing in this sub-forum, with comparisons.

http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12982

Babaluma · Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:17 pm Post subject:

bsmith · Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:52 pm Post subject:

Chuck E. Jesus · Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:51 pm Post subject:

felix · Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:28 am Post subject:

xpander · Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:57 am Post subject:

slow_riot · Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:46 pm Post subject:

I've just been playing with 2 recently purchased Borg 2's.

Both seem to have very very different resonance characteristics, even if I use different outputs or remove or replace the jumper on the back. One is very screamy and the other one very much less so. The nicer one won't stops self oscillating at a higher frequency... the stronger one goes almost into subby territory.

I think the varierty could be useful... but I'm just curious about whther this is somehow 'normal'.. perhaps through different tolerances/variences in components. I recall someone mentioning their Borg's differed similarly but I couldn't find the post.

I'm planning on getting a Borg1 also anyway. Amazing modules.

J3RK · Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:41 pm Post subject:

You might be able to calibrate them to behave a little more similarly, but from my understanding, Vactrols vary from unit to unit, so you're likely not going to get identical behavior from any two units. It consists of a a light-source (LED) and a photo-cell. So I imagine that there are several ways for variations to come into play. (imperfections in LED dispersion, LED brightness, varying tolerances of the photo-cell/LDR, isolation, etc.) I think you could probably get a bit closer behavior than what you describe with calibration.

I have a Borg One and a Borg Two, so I can't do a direct comparison on mine.

I'm wondering if the color of LED used would have any impact on this based on wave-length of the color. Now I want to make some vactrols. I may have to buy another Borg, place at socket of some kind where the vactrols connect, and plug in different ones. Maybe go for "ultra-slow" and use an incandescent light. lol

Perhaps make a vactrol expansion board, with switches to change between responses...

Malekko · Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:19 pm Post subject:

This is normal, and it isnt a calibration issue, in building these we've seen a pretty big difference from unit to unit...sounds like you have one from each spectrum! It's from the tolerance of the vactrols.
In my personal ones i leave the jumper off for the ultimate w00t

slow_riot · Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:32 pm Post subject:

Aha thanks for the clarification.

I think I got lucky to have the 2... i can see them being complimentary. and also it's possible thru jumper settings and seperate outputs to work with the personality of each different vactrol response. i can tame the screamy one or boost the soft one, for exmaple.

the only issue is the large potential of long term addiction... smile

Malekko · Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:39 pm Post subject:

yeah, i cherry picked two opposites for myself too, you can get a wide variety of possibilities with the two you have!!!
w00t

slow_riot · Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:55 pm Post subject:

i think i will try with the jumper on the soft one and the jumper off on the other. smile

bleeps · Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:54 am Post subject:

I walked into BCM today with the honest intent of just buying an Envelator when Josh says, "Hey, you in a rush?"

20 minutes and some knob twisting later I walk out with a Borg to keep the Envelator company. *sigh* At least I got a wooden nickel out of the deal. :insert wooden nickel emoticon here:

Now I just need to find a good place to keep the jumper bit...

felix · Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:29 am Post subject:

!!!! WOODEN NICKELS !!!! It's peanut butter jelly time!

RichyHo · Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:07 am Post subject:

Hi5 · Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:08 am Post subject:

given the multiple ins and outs on the borgs anyone patch up some vc resonance control on these guys?
I have the lpg thing covered but am interested in it as a svf.

lukas412 · Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:47 am Post subject:

jonkull · Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:03 pm Post subject:

OK, so what's this wooden nickel stuff about?

miditerranean · Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:25 pm Post subject:

I'm pretty sure there were only Wooden nickels in the first production run of the Borg 2 and Boogie filters but then the manufacturer stopped making the wooden nickels. Malekko clarified this somewhere in the forum but I can't find it right now.

tortug · Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:41 pm Post subject:

I also got a wooden nickel with the Borg 1 smile

qu.one · Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:46 pm Post subject:

there was a rubber roach in one of the malekko pedals someone opened at an NYC meetup. it was hysterical.

dequalsrxt · Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:48 pm Post subject:

psst: enlighten a noob - svf?

qu.one · Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:52 pm Post subject:

dequalsrxt · Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 3:30 pm Post subject:

got it, thanks!

felix · Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:08 pm Post subject:

felix · Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:28 pm Post subject:

eXode · Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:55 am Post subject:

Out of curiousity, which of the two Borgs sounds most "authentic" to a Buchla LPG when in Low mode? From bsmith's post I'd guess no 1?

Reptil · Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:37 am Post subject:

M15 --> VCEQ3 --> Borg = WIN Guinness ftw!

modulated through RCD and Z8000

no video audio - my converter PSU did *poof* MY ASS IS BLEEDING

felix · Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:25 pm Post subject:

Reptil · Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:57 am Post subject:

yup
after 5 years of day and night continuous operation a few of the caps of the PSU went bad.
I'll replace with good Panasonic and it's good to go for another decade.
it's a LOT of caps though woah

I'm thinking about an orpheus since AD DA is the weakest part of my setup.
or the Steinberg MR816 since it's so ridiculously cheap.

but I'm not sure. Also looked at Lavry blue and UA but those are too much €€ per channel

felix · Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:58 pm Post subject:

Jason Brock · Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 10:55 am Post subject:

Jason Brock · Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 8:33 am Post subject:

OK, I found this comparison MP3 which has some sounds in VCA mode.

But it still doesn't quite answer my question, which is this: in VCA mode will there always be some decay to the sound, no matter how short of an envelope you ping it with?

bsmith · Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 8:43 am Post subject:

I believe the answer is yes - these things have that ring, so using it as a VCA will impart the vactrol's character. This is the way it seems to me at least - the ring is kind of the point of using a lpg as a vca, and makes me want to have different LPG's that have different characteristics, as well as 'vanilla' vca like the a-132's. This is how I'm rolling with it presently at least. In fact a short envelope with a short attack is the best way I've found to really check the ring out. I think I get why you're asking too, it's almost like a lpg with a certain ring has a certain reverb setting that you have to use for that VCA (almost but not quite - more an instruments own acoustic characteristic than 'reverb') and makes the different arguments about which LPG is preferred kind of a weird argument to me.
Don't have one (but do want one), but doesn't the qmmg let you pretty much shut the ring down used as a VCA and vary the length?