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Deciding on a sequencer
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> 5U Format Modules Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next [all]
Author Deciding on a sequencer
russma
I've been using my Future Retro 777 for modular sequencing duties, and now I want to replace it with a modular analog sequencer.

I'm leaning heavily toward the MoonModular 569 Quad Sequential Voltage Source, despite the earlier reports of trouble discussed here.

But, I'm also tempted by folks here sporting their new Klee sequencers. However, given the Klee's unique design, I'm wondering whether it's the wisest choice as my only sequencer?

The dotcom Q960 would be cheaper of course, but I can afford the Moon if it's worth the difference, is it? Modcan's sliders take their sequencer module out of the running for me. Want knobs.

Note that I'm still a noob, so I can't effectively answer "how will I be using the sequencer?", other than to say for learning.

Any input is appreciated!
ritchiedrums
If I could afford the MoonModular 569 it would be my only sequencer. However, I really like my Q119 and having a Q960 along with it would be great too. Probably not helping you here, but the MoonModular 569 appears to be the Ultimate! Soapbox
emdot_ambient
Personally I think it's a mistake to have only one sequencer. But...if you were forced to only have one and you've got the cash, then the Moonmodular 569 is what I'd go for. Modcan's would be second on the list (if you've got a quantizer handy). I own an ARP sequencer and I really like sliders rather than knobs for sequencers...in an instant you can take in the relative values of each step.

But I plan on ending up with at least 4 sequencers. Mainly because I want to play live and have several sequncers set up for different songs.
russma
Thanks ritchiedrums.

I forgot to mention that I'm also intruigued by STG's sequencer system.

But, I don't really know what components comprise the system, what their availability is (in 5U), and how owners are digging them.

What I do know, is I love my STG Mankato, so, there's that.

Perhaps Mr. Guy will amble by....
bwhittington
emdot_ambient wrote:
Personally I think it's a mistake to have only one sequencer.


I agree. Two or more sequencers interacting with one another rock way more than one alone. Since the M569 accepts an external clock per row, with expansion modules it would more than fit the bill for that. I'd be more excited about buying one a year from now than right now, though.

Cheers,
Brian
russma
I should clarify: Whichever sequencer I choose will be my first, not my only.

With me, "more is better" goes entirely without saying.

It's peanut butter jelly time!
Attorks
I have been using a Doepfer MAQ16/3 for some years now as my only sequencer. It has it pros and cons but during the years it grew on me. For what it is, it is a great sequencer in both the analog and MIDI domain. But I am also looking for another sequencer and as it is now, it would be a Q960. The MoonModular is out of my scope money wise. I would choose the Q960 because I want to experience what all those guys in the past had to deal with. And the Q960 is a real hands-on sequencer with big knobs and no tiny switches or controls. I don't think it is a bad thing to be limited by a sequencer in some way because my creativity is build on limitations.
russma
Folks be thinking Gert's soldering iron is still hot?
sunsinger
idiotboy wrote:
Thanks ritchiedrums.

I forgot to mention that I'm also intruigued by STG's sequencer system.

But, I don't really know what components comprise the system, what their availability is (in 5U), and how owners are digging them.

What I do know, is I love my STG Mankato, so, there's that.

Perhaps Mr. Guy will amble by....


I'll try to talk about the STG stuff. It can seem a bit complicated but its really pretty easy to grok after just a short time of using it. Alot of folks scratch their heads over this sequencer, but the STG "Time Modules Suite" is a pretty cool system.

I've got a STG sequencer rig. It's components are the '"Time Buffer" the Trigger Mini Store, the Shift Manager, and the Voltage Mini Store (VMS)

The Time Buffer takes in and spits out DIN Sync. You need a DIN Sync source like a Mobius or other device that outputs DIN to clock to. Suit says this is not absolutely necessary to run these. Ask him for clarification about this.

Then you will need the Trigger Mini Store" (TMS) module. The trigger mini store sends triggers and skips notes.

Then you need 1 or more Voltage Mini Store Modules. I have 4 of them. So thats four - 8 note sequencers run by a sync source. It will run at three timings, 1/4 notes, 8th notes, and 16th notes. All based on the speed of your clock. (LFOs accepted from shift input)

The Time buffer will run about 9 synced modules including several VMS modules, a TMS and a Shift Manager modules, which is the module you will want to make complete group. Or mix and match as you like. I plan to have 5 VMS, 2 TMS, and 2 Shift manager modules when this sequencer is complete.

The Voltage Mini Store will run at quarter, eighth, or sixteenth note intervals as well. That means that several Voltage Mini Store modules can all run, each with different intervals, and switched at will. I find this quite useful.

These modules are further enhanced by the Shift Manager. This module allows you to define, per VMS Module, the number of notes played. So one VMS can play at four notes another at seven and so on up to eight. These values are easily switched while running. Any note or timing value changes happen at the end of the sequenced line, so no jump timing weirdness. Clock on these modules are rock solid when run with DIN Sync.

There are some interesting input and output options on each module, which make them all usable with other modules, like shift inputs on everything, and V trig out on the TMS module. This makes it a good clock module if run by an LFO. Take a close look at the Shift Manager, and you'll see the stage 1 output. This allows you to send the output to a VMS modules shift input, slowing that module's timing to one note output for every complete cycle of VMS #1.

Granted, its a bit of cash to lay out get all six essential modules to make a 24 note sequencer fully functional, but the build quality & versatility of the Suite is pretty good.

To compare to the Moon 569, you would have to buy the 553 Midi to Clock Module and the 564 in order to get the rock solid variable note timings per sequencer line that the STG has. But the 564 also adds the shift register functions to the 569, and the functionality if the 564 is very versatile.

Over all, I would say after months of using my STG sequencer that I am very happy with it. My only complaints is that you cannot do skip notes on each VMS module, as you can on the Moon 569. All of the VMS modules are locked to the trigger mini store (TMS) modules skips or rests. Unless you figure out some other imaginative way to get that function. (I've been thinking about ways to use my Encore UEG with this suite to see what possibilities arise.)

The other gripe is that there is no backwards or pendulum modes with this sequencer as there is on the 569.

These modules are fun and I have found all kinds of uses for all of the modules individually running things on my synth. The plugin and run possibilities are pretty endless.

Though I really do like the 569, the 960 and the Q119 too, and hope to have one or more of these soon.
modularland
modcan all the way if you are going 5U.
decaying.sine
What about the mfos 16 step sequencer?

I bought two if the pcb's and it's fast approaching stuffing time. Bridechamber has a nice looking panel coming out for it soon. Mfos has a dual quantizer too.

I think I'll be happy with these because I just want something basic for now.

I believe this Thomas White panel may be what Scott offers at Bridechamber. It's a nice design.

http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/SEQ16_2006/SEQ16_2006.p hp
kindredlost
I own a Q960. Good for vintage, classic TD style stuff. I still have a hard on for a 569.

-David
Nelson Baboon
modularland wrote:
modcan all the way if you are going 5U.


I have to say, that despite any issues I've had with the moon, I much prefer the moon overall. Wish it did audio rate, though.

But the moon is a system. I suppose you could say that the 569 is the sequencer, and the rest of it is like any other modular, but what attracted me to the Moon was that it was a system built around the 569, and I think that it is pretty amazing. (there are still some remaining issues, but Gert and Chuck have been great - I would just be dishonest if I didn't mention this).

But when you start combining the 569 with the expanders, the trigger sequencer, and (my favorite of the modules, perhaps) the sequential switch - I think it just blows away the Modcan. Of course, it blows it away in expense also. And then there is the midi to cv module, which is very cool....

When you talk about 1/4" sequencers though, you have to bring in the SAM-16.
Nelson Baboon
oh yeah - wanted to mention - the klee is great. I hestitate to recommend it as a first sequencer. I enthusiastically recommend it as a second sequencer.
Nelson Baboon
But then, on the other hand, if we're getting away from 5u and 1/4" jacks, then that opens things up a lot....
JohnLRice
I think that the Moon 569 is the bee's knees! (even if there are a few stingers in there Mr. Green )

The Q960 is really cool to but it's not all that much cheaper after you add in a Q962, a Q963 and some quantizer module . . .maybe around $1500 or so total and you still can't clock the rows at different rates.

But no sequencer is perfect , that's why everyone should buy them all! hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper

If it were me today . . . I think I might wait a few months since there are some new ones on the horizon that I think are interesting and maybe some more of the remaining minor issues with the Moon will get ironed out.

The Cirklon looks pretty tasty to me, although it's more of a MIDI thing but there will be a couple analog CV/Gate output options!
http://www.sequentix.com/cirklon.htm
I do argue with myself though that is a lot of ways it seems like the same thing as my RM1X minus the internal sounds and effects, for a higher price . .. hhhmm. Looks like it might be easier to program and definitely smaller to haul around (plus it will have CV/Gate! hyper )



The Archangel lloks really interesting to me too:
russma
Thanks everyone for your input.

The SAM16 looks the business, but I can't afford it. The STG system also sounds great, but maybe not the right fit for me just yet, (I can barely get myself dressed in the morning help )

Drool, what would be your choice in a 5U world where Moon and SAM16 don't exist?
Nelson Baboon
idiotboy wrote:
Thanks everyone for your input.

The SAM16 looks the business, but I can't afford it. The STG system also sounds great, but maybe not the right fit for me just yet, (I can barely get myself dressed in the morning help )

Drool, what would be your choice in a 5U world where Moon and SAM16 don't exist?


ugh - I'm pretty new to the 5u world - I don't know....I mean (sorry if I'm spacing this out) but doesn't that pretty much leave the stg (I have some of his coming in a few days) and the synth.com? (I don't know about the features of the mfos - looked pretty basic from a brief glance...)

But John brings up a good one - I think that the archangel will be really nice. I think it's only about 2 months away...but not 5u.
essex sound lab
idiotboy wrote:


Drool, what would be your choice in a 5U world where Moon and SAM16 don't exist?



Well I'm not Drool, who has a much broader/deeper experience base with sequencers than I do (or virtually anyone, I'd reckon).

But I'd say you could do worse than start with a Q960, with one or two sequential switches. It's a playable, versatile, classic combo that can keep you busy and inspired for a long time.

Plus it lends itself really well to expansion with other modules, such as the Moon trigger sequencer and quad switch. That's a setup I've been running for quite a while and have been remarkably happy with (well, plus a second 960, two additional sequential switches, and a Q119 to be honest). I absolutely love the trigger sequencer.

As of today I have a M569 sitting in my entry hall, waiting to be taken to the studio. Can't wait to start spinning THAT! w00t
sunsinger
droolmaster0 wrote:
idiotboy wrote:
Thanks everyone for your input.

The SAM16 looks the business, but I can't afford it. The STG system also sounds great, but maybe not the right fit for me just yet, (I can barely get myself dressed in the morning help )

Drool, what would be your choice in a 5U world where Moon and SAM16 don't exist?


ugh - I'm pretty new to the 5u world - I don't know....I mean (sorry if I'm spacing this out) but doesn't that pretty much leave the stg (I have some of his coming in a few days) and the synth.com? (I don't know about the features of the mfos - looked pretty basic from a brief glance...)

But John brings up a good one - I think that the archangel will be really nice. I think it's only about 2 months away...but not 5u.


But... The archangel is not pretending to be 5U though it does interface with 5U stuff handily from matching voltages to 1/4" outputs and inputs.
It would be nice to have a VC touchplate sequencer key interface even if I cant bolt it into the face of my modular.

The Buchla "MDK" touch sensor key interface and Serge TKB key and sequencer interfaces, added a great deal of functionality to those venerable systems. It's about time the 5U world had something comparable.

It looks to me like the Archangle will be a big winner in the sequencer world. It does an awful lot, and very quickly. My good buddy and sometimes workmate, who used the Mighty Serge system in the 70's and 80's saw this this and said it was the TKB of his dreams.

I'm waiting with baited breath. I know that my friend Michael is planning to build a new small Serge system around this thing too.
JohnLRice
What's a sequencer thread without a bunch of excessive pictures! hyper



















JohnLRice
essex sound lab wrote:

But I'd say you could do worse than start with a Q960, with one or two sequential switches. It's a playable, versatile, classic combo that can keep you busy and inspired for a long time.

Plus it lends itself really well to expansion with other modules, such as the Moon trigger sequencer and quad switch. That's a setup I've been running for quite a while and have been remarkably happy with (well, plus a second 960, two additional sequential switches, and a Q119 to be honest). I absolutely love the trigger sequencer.

As of today I have a M569 sitting in my entry hall, waiting to be taken to the studio. Can't wait to start spinning THAT! w00t



W00T! w00t Congrats!

But . . .I'm not going to be happy until we BOTH have more sequencers than each other does! nodnod
Nelson Baboon
The Cirklon is definitely Not like an rm1x. Basically, you want a p3 for one thing (not that it doesn't do other things) that it does better than anything else by far - if you want algorithmic sequencing, this is the one to have. No other hardware sequencer comes remotely close to it. I mean (and this is just one type of example) - you can set step 5 to multitrigger 5 times, but then you can set the probability of that happening as 30% - but then maybe you want to modulate that probability by some other event on some other track. I mean, nothing has intertrack modulation like this does....the p3 had a lousy interface (mostly because the screen was too small) but it looks like the cirklon will remedy that.

The thing is that even with the cv/gate expansion, it has more of a midi attitude - you don't have the kind of immediacy that you do with a true analog sequencer.



JohnLRice wrote:
I think that the Moon 569 is the bee's knees! (even if there are a few stingers in there Mr. Green )

The Q960 is really cool to but it's not all that much cheaper after you add in a Q962, a Q963 and some quantizer module . . .maybe around $1500 or so total and you still can't clock the rows at different rates.

But no sequencer is perfect , that's why everyone should buy them all! hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper

If it were me today . . . I think I might wait a few months since there are some new ones on the horizon that I think are interesting and maybe some more of the remaining minor issues with the Moon will get ironed out.

The Cirklon looks pretty tasty to me, although it's more of a MIDI thing but there will be a couple analog CV/Gate output options!
http://www.sequentix.com/cirklon.htm
I do argue with myself though that is a lot of ways it seems like the same thing as my RM1X minus the internal sounds and effects, for a higher price . .. hhhmm. Looks like it might be easier to program and definitely smaller to haul around (plus it will have CV/Gate! hyper )



The Archangel lloks really interesting to me too:
JohnLRice
Ahhh, OK. Thanks for the clarification! 8_)

droolmaster0 wrote:
The Cirklon is definitely Not like an rm1x. Basically, you want a p3 for one thing (not that it doesn't do other things) that it does better than anything else by far - if you want algorithmic sequencing, this is the one to have. No other hardware sequencer comes remotely close to it. I mean (and this is just one type of example) - you can set step 5 to multitrigger 5 times, but then you can set the probability of that happening as 30% - but then maybe you want to modulate that probability by some other event on some other track. I mean, nothing has intertrack modulation like this does....the p3 had a lousy interface (mostly because the screen was too small) but it looks like the cirklon will remedy that.

The thing is that even with the cv/gate expansion, it has more of a midi attitude - you don't have the kind of immediacy that you do with a true analog sequencer.
ach_gott
JohnLRice wrote:
The Archangel lloks really interesting to me too:


And it plays the Terminator theme song? hihi
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