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Better circuit choices for Silent Way AC Encoder
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Expert Sleepers Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next [all]
Author Better circuit choices for Silent Way AC Encoder
os
Are you using Live's click, or a proper clock pulse e.g. from Silent Way?
Jsharpphoto
The native click
os
That's an audio signal, so you're likely to get double triggers. Try an actual clock pulse.
Jsharpphoto
It seems to be working constantly, but I'm open to try other things. Where can I download a pulse file?
os
You could use the demo of Silent Way to generate a clock, and just record its output.
popmatik
Hello. I'm hoping someone can help.

I've made the cables to connect my Metric Halo 2882 using the Half-wave rectifier circuit but I'm not able to get anything to really work. Now i'm sure this is because of something I'm doing but I'm hoping someone might have a clue what I'm doing wrong.

I've followed the tutorial for setting up with Ableton and have everything routed correctly through the Metric Mio console.

When I plug a lead into the gate input I get a constant note. I can make this stop and only trigger the gate through MIDI if I adjust the AC encoder maximum to 0.072. Does that seem right?!

If I connect the other lead to Pitch/CV then I get a very high frequency from the synth. If I run calibrate it does a descending squeal but doesn't get to lower registers at all. I'm thinking there must be something up.

I'm using a TRS lead on both sides at the mini jack side I have soldered the ring to the shield as it says in the instructions. I'm using a 1uF 50v Capacitor and the diode it states in the instructions. Here are the images of the 1/4 inch side. I took a few different angles so hopefully you can make it out.





Any suggestions as to what I'm doing wrong I'd love to hear. I should point out the Synth is a Moog Prodigy with a kenton cv kit added. The cv works as expected when connected to my Microbrute.

Thanks anyone who can help! [/img]
popmatik
Hi again folks,

I made some progress with this this morning in terms of getting more info.

I disconnected the cables from my Moog Prodigy and plugged them into my microbrute. Thinking that maybe the Moog needs more voltage or something so wanted to test how the microbrute behaved.

With this setup I was able to get the synth calibrating but I could only get 10 notes... not even an octave :(

I'm wondering does this indicate not enough voltage? I cranked the output on the Metric 2882 to +28.5 db but that meant nothing happened. Reducing the gain to below 0db meant that the calibration was wonky and I got less notes.

Any ideas would be great! Thanks
popmatik
Hello again!

I've made a bit more progress smile

If I run the CV out of the metric 2882 into my Moog CP-251 attentunator and boost by 5V I'm able to calibrate the Prodigy and get 4 useable octaves. So I'm thinking this points to the cable I built not providing enough voltage to drive the Prodigy.

So what should my next steps be? Ideally I don't want to lose an attenuator on the CP-251 to do this so would trying another cable circuit be the thing to do?

OS in your tests with the Metric Halo what voltages were you getting out of it with your first cable circuit?

Thanks
popmatik
os

Just adding this in hope that it let's you know I'm here smile
os
The 2882 can output crazy voltage. You shouldn't have to boost it at all.

I would suggest that you don't worry about calibration to begin with. Just use Silent Way DC fed into the AC Encoder. Make sure you can get a decent voltage sweep just from moving the knobs in the DC plug-in.

Lots of things have to all work together to get the calibration to succeed so it's best to focus on one thing at a time.
popmatik
os
Thanks OS! I'll give it a go. I don't have a multimeter to read the voltages unfortunately (I can order one). Anything I can be doing in the meantime to help test?

The 1uf capacitor being 50v is ok? I have to admit I'm not an electronics person smile
popmatik
Just had a go with the DC plugin through the AC plugin into the Prodigy with me holding down a key. None of the knobs seemed to do anything until I moved the multiplier knob and that sent the pitch sky high but I was unable to get the pitch to come down from that point after that.

Any ideas?
os
The "Out -1->1" knob is the only one you need to use.
popmatik
Thanks os

If I plug the CV lead into my microbrute and turn that knob it works as expected. A sweeping pitch that starts below the middle of the range to supersonic.

If I do the same with the Prodigy though I get a screaming high pitch and no movement when I turn the knob.

So this leaves me with some conclusions:

1. The leads are working and soldered up correctly.
2. I'm getting something usable out of the Metric.
3. I've hopefully set things up in the Mio console right to route things (Direct outs on 3 and 4 receiving signal from DAW 3/4)
4. The Prodigy doesn't seem to like it.
5. The Kenton Kit I fitted to the Prodigy does work as I can get it to play using the Microbrute CV outs.

So I'm thinking a course of action would be to ask Kenton what Voltage the Prodigy needs to be driven? And get a multimeter to find out what I'm getting?

Anything else you'd suggest? Ever heard of a synth just doing a high pitched note and nothing else?

Thanks for all your help with this, I'm sure you are a busy chap so it's much appreciated!!
os
What that suggests to me is that the Prodigy has a very high impedance input, which is not providing the capacitor with a discharge path.

Try a moderate sized resistor (say, 10k to 100k) in parallel with the capacitor.
popmatik
os
Thanks very much for your expertise! I'll buy some resistors and give it a go. Unless I can find one to steal from a household item for now smile

When you say in parallel that means like this?



Would I need that on the gate lead too? I found that that wasn't triggering very reliably too.

Cheers again.[/img]
os
Yes, that's in parallel.

You'll just have to try it on the gate.
popmatik
os
Thanks will do! i'll let you know how I get on. Once I've got it working I'll do a video for you smile
popmatik
os
Hi Os,

I can't thank you enough for your help with this. I bobbed a 56k resistor in and boom working! grin

I had to put one in the gate lead too as that was holding notes too long if I didn't. So yeah I've got 5 octaves of working goodness (that's the limit of the synth I believe). Not to buy the plugin!

Cheers again.
os
w00t
Alex
Hey guys!

I have some questions since I can't seem to get this idea I had working.

I'm trying to control one (via the expression pedal input) one of those Line 6 M13 effects pedalboards by using the silent way AC encoder and the modified cables as seen in this thread.

I built the half-rectifier cable out of a typical 1/4" TRS cable. I'm using .22 uf caps and the diodes recommended in this thread (can't recall the part number that was given).

I have a tone generator in my DAW generating a 50 hz sine wave, then the silent way A/C encoder in the plugin chain after that (though I'm not sure it's necessary for this simple test?). If I measure the tip and sleeve of the cable it shows 3 volts or whatnot, and I can adjust that easily inside the DAW, or physically via potentiometers on my interface (Allen & Heath ZED R-16).

I've tried running the modified cable out of a channel's (you can digitally send a digital signal back into one of the mixer's channel strips with the R-16, which is what I'm doing since there's no actual "direct outs") Y insert jack, as well as bussing the channel's signal to an aux jack, and I get working DC voltage measurements from both, however when I plug the cable into the Line 6 M13 I can't seem to get it to control it at all!

Does anyone have any theories on what the problem might be? I've heard that the Line 6 M13 expression pedals are continuous voltage inputs, so I hoped it would work.

Here's a picture of my beaaaautiful cable!

os
It would be useful to know how the expression pedal is wired. Is it a TRS plug? Any more information about what it expects on the net somewhere?
Alex
From what I've read on the net it's a TS plug. I think there's a pretty standard design for CV expression pedals, but i'm not super great at electronics. smile

I think I might know the issue though - I think I need to short the ring to the shield on the TRS side entering the M13. I think that might be the issue, so i'll test that today.
Alex
Hmm, did that and still nothing. :\

Here's a post though where a lot people are talking about being able to control the unit with CV:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=709295&sid=698c362cf 2ddf9d99e83f118ce7c3e9e
Alex
Hokay, so it turns out the Line 6 M13's CV input is weird in that it uses a mono cable instead of a TRS cable like most of the others.

So the M13's CV jack, the tip outputs about 3.2 volts and the sleeve is a just a sleeve! It connects to a variable resistor (which is what an expression pedal essentially is), tip to wiper, sleeve to "ground/reference" type thing, and that divides the voltage. You get the remainder of the voltage returning to the sleeve which the M16 then measures to figure out the pedal position.

So I think this diagram oughta do the trick. I won't know till I build and test it, though.

If anyone sees any reason this wouldn't work, let me know. Again, not my forte. smile

http://s4.postimg.org/3xfqu1w7x/diagram_wiring_m13.png

*Edit*

Doesn't work! I think it must be measuring the difference, not just taking the value that's returned to the sleeve. Unless anyone has any ideas I guess I'm going to have to try something a bit different like a JFET.
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