Roli Seaboard Rise

Any music gear discussions that don't fit into one of the other forums.

Moderators: Kent, Joe., analogdigital, infradead, lisa, parasitk, plord

Post Reply
User avatar
joshuag
Common Wiggler
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:42 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Roli Seaboard Rise

Post by joshuag » Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:00 pm

Very Interesting.
battery powered 25 key (midi over bluetooth) seaboard for $799
no CV or reg. Midi :despair:

looking forward to a hands on...

Roli Seaboard Rise

User avatar
rew_
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 395
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2015 2:32 pm
Location: Chicago

Post by rew_ » Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:03 pm

it's an $800 two-octave midi keyboard. gtfo
whoosy boxes / zoomy panels

User avatar
Paranormal Patroler
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 10670
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:40 pm
Location: the Terminal beach

Post by Paranormal Patroler » Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:22 am

Interesting but too expensive. Plus Bluetooth??? Wtf! I don't want to have to use a computer.
All rights reserved; all wrongs reversed.

User avatar
digitalganesha
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 775
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:07 pm
Location: PA in the ol' USA

Post by digitalganesha » Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:33 am

I just want to the people who make the TouchKeys to make them more available and easier to order....

User avatar
tehyar
I dream in SciFi
Posts: 1086
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:23 am
Location: Ohio, USA

Post by tehyar » Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:05 am

Took a whole 5 minutes to decide to preorder this.

It's clear from comments everywhere that most people don't actually understand what it can do.

User avatar
BTS
Common Wiggler
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 12:24 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by BTS » Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:22 am

It seems interesting. Still a bit expensive for me at this time.

I guess that squishy rubber isn't cheap. :despair:

User avatar
Infrablue
This sentence is false
Posts: 1093
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:10 am

Post by Infrablue » Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:41 am

tehyar wrote:Took a whole 5 minutes to decide to preorder this.

It's clear from comments everywhere that most people don't actually understand what it can do.
I agree this is fully worth it if the feel and expression is comfortable. But then I'm into this kind of controller for what I like to play.

I really wish I had one close by I could try out hands on (Anyone have one in Utah here I could check out?) For some reason I have an aversion to the idea of the rubber, rather than something firm I can do similar expression on. But I'm hopeful this is just me being prejudiced and when I play one I'll find it to be just great feeling.

I do have 3 octaves of Touchkeys and I really love this method. But I still think it's ultimate iteration will be when this technology is built into actual plastic keys like standardly on a modern keyboard. I do think Andrew Mcphearson is trying to get these produced by a big keyboard company into such keys.. or at least I've seen him react well to that suggestion as a goal. I think it would be the ultimate way of doing this.

But I still just way want to play a Seaboard to see if it has this covered. It may.
New Breath Control Demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTiWw4rL ... bAqEVbUEOE
Lifeform Blues (wind synth/EVI at about 4:30): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4VpSFhVa1I
My demo of the Steiner 24 Stage Vactrol Phase Shifter/String Filter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh1-A_dYY6Y
Site for my classical/modular/wind synth project:http://thepinesofmars.com/

User avatar
Infrablue
This sentence is false
Posts: 1093
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:10 am

Post by Infrablue » Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:59 am

tehyar wrote:Took a whole 5 minutes to decide to preorder this.

It's clear from comments everywhere that most people don't actually understand what it can do.
I agree this is fully worth it if the feel and expression is comfortable. But then I'm into this kind of controller for what I like to play.

I really wish I had one close by I could try out hands on (Anyone have one in Utah here I could check out?) For some reason I have an aversion to the idea of the rubber, rather than something firm I can do similar expression on. But I'm hopeful this is just me being prejudiced and when I play one I'll find it to be just great feeling.

I do have 3 octaves of Touchkeys and I really love this method. But I still think it's ultimate iteration will be when this technology is built into actual plastic keys like standardly on a modern keyboard. I do think Andrew Mcphearson is trying to get these produced by a big keyboard company into such keys.. or at least I've seen him react well to that suggestion as a goal. I think it would be the ultimate way of doing this.

But I still just way want to play a Seaboard to see if it has this covered. It may.
New Breath Control Demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTiWw4rL ... bAqEVbUEOE
Lifeform Blues (wind synth/EVI at about 4:30): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4VpSFhVa1I
My demo of the Steiner 24 Stage Vactrol Phase Shifter/String Filter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh1-A_dYY6Y
Site for my classical/modular/wind synth project:http://thepinesofmars.com/

User avatar
numan7
the most autistic amongst us
Posts: 6209
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:09 pm

Post by numan7 » Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:24 am

i kind of wish it didn't have any lights on its playing surface (or that they were some color besides white, at least). i think i prefer the idea of the half-size haaken continuum over this (granted which is cheaper, though).


cheers
Last edited by numan7 on Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
"knowledge has to be organized so it can be taught, and it has to be reduced to information so it can be organized do you follow that? in other words this leads you to assume that organization is an inherent property of knowledge itself, and that disorder and chaos are simply irrelevant forces that threaten it from outside. in fact it's exactly the opposite. order is simply a thin, perilous condition we try to impose on the basic reality of chaos..." --william gaddis

User avatar
C14ru5
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 481
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:53 am
Location: Oslo, Norway

Post by C14ru5 » Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:24 am

- The Seaboard Rise has shallower keys compared to the Seaboard Grand. I wonder how natural that would feel for classically trained keyboardists. I personally can't stand controller keyboards that don't have enough key travel. I'm hoping this will be an exception.

- I'm eagerly waiting for a larger version spanning across something like 4 octaves. I see two-octave controllers as a last resort, but I'm sure many will love the portability of this small form factor. All the demo videos show people playing the Rise using two hands, but in my experience that can only be done efficiently on a two-octave keyboard controller if you're very careful and plan ahead.

- I still think that products like the Haken Continuum seem more directly designed for modular systems, while the Roli Seaboard Rise seems to be primarily directed at in-the-box music production. But I hope to be proven wrong, and reading reports from people who are successful at using a Rise in a modular setup.

User avatar
subultresk
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 464
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:29 pm
Location: Wildeshausen

Post by subultresk » Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:45 am

tehyar wrote:Took a whole 5 minutes to decide to preorder this.

It's clear from comments everywhere that most people don't actually understand what it can do.
My story was quite similar: the decision to preorder took about 5 minutes. :hihi:
After reading other discussions in other forums i also would second that many of the (arguing) people don't understand enough of the "environment" (which might include musical knowledge or instrumental skills).

From my view (i'm a pianist) it's not another keyboard - it only represents the layout of a keyboard. Haken Continuum is the leading instrument of "this kind", but ca. 7500.- minimum (with Matrix, CV and case) is simply too expensive for most of us. The Madrona Soundplane and the Linnstrument are better for guitar players.

Therefor Seaboard managed a huge step with offering this interface for 800.-!

Although i haven't tried it i appreciate the changes:
1. smaller/less keys than the GRAND
2. shallower built
3. changes in materials and structure (not that soft/deep/contoured)
4. added controllers (and the two usage-modes)

Since we are talking about a 800.- controller (which is neither cheap nor expensive):
i also appreciate that it comes with a case (on the photo it looks like a cover)!

If i'm not wrong it can be used easily with an Expert Sleepers FH-1 as a CV-contoller without any additional computer. (I read too often "it doesn't have CV!".)

I'm not the biggest fan of MIDI (128 steps/speed), but for this purpose it seems to be acceptable.
I hope, the Bend (glide) will be transmitted in 14bit (16384 steps) - it's the only controller which would be insufficient with 128 steps.
(Pitchbend is normally transmitted with MSB/LSB which results in 14bit.)

Since i'm using Max/MSP and Expert Sleepers modules it looks like a step forward. The RISE seems to be pretty open to be integrated into very different setups. It will need the one or other extension/expansion, but even with the expansion the price will stay somewhere around 1000.-.

That is quite remarkable!

Again: it's not a new piano. One might need two hands for playing something that could be played with one hand on a piano, but you get the Slide. Pressure and the Glide - that's pretty powerful! - especially together with the instant possibility of changing the parameter mappings (one of the two controller-modes) it could be very helpful to quickly change the instruments behavior (besides the parameter values).

To me it looks like a couple of good decisions @ Seaboard.

What can't be purchased is practice on a daily basis... Every instrument asks for practice.
Last edited by subultresk on Sat Sep 12, 2015 8:46 am, edited 3 times in total.
_____________________

bohnes.de

thetechnobear
Common Wiggler
Posts: 230
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:17 am
Contact:

Post by thetechnobear » Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:03 am

The talk about expressive controllers being too expensive, happens every time they are discussed ... (see continuum/eigenharps etc) - it simple, they are relatively low run with specialised components and software.
(this is close to being the cheapest... the Pico is cheaper, but has 18 keys)

as for it being a keyboard... only in its outward form and note layout, it will play completely differently, exposing a new dimension to playing... this can only be really understood when you play it... not by how it looks/specs/demos etc.

a couple of points:
- yes, it will be 14 bit pitchbend (its part of MPE spec)
- also you have missed one important change:
its now 3 dimensions on 'waves', glide, pressure and slide (timbre) , this is a huge improvement (imho) over the GRAND.
- it has USB class compliant midi, and you can get cheap USB to Midi DIN cables... so no computer required.
EDIT: sorry, as pointed out below looks like USB A, is just power not USB host, so you will need a USB host device to convert to MIDI DIN

congratulations to those that have pre-ordered, Im sure its going to be a fantastic experience!


(I own an Eigenharp Alpha & ML Soundplane, above is based on that experience)
Last edited by thetechnobear on Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
flabby
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 718
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:12 pm
Location: spain

Post by flabby » Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:43 am

Might be a dumb question, but is the 2GB ram and 2.5GHZ processor recommended for the use of the software synth side of things?

User avatar
robotmakers
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 655
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:52 am
Location: New York, NY

Post by robotmakers » Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:56 am

thetechnobear wrote:- it has USB class compliant midi, and you can get cheap USB to Midi DIN cables... so no computer required.
This is actually a question I've sent to ROLI (without response), so glad to see this info here! I'd like to set up a RISE for standalone "no computer" use, and want a legacy 5 pin DIN MIDI output to send to an Encore Expressionist 8 channel MIDI->CV converter. I thought I'd need to connect the USB "B" output of the RISE to something like the Kenton MIDI USB Host, which provides for MIDI DIN in/out.

http://www.kentonuk.com/products/items/utilities/usb-host.shtml

Are you suggesting a simple USB "A" to MIDI DIN cable would actually work? The RISE does have a USB "A" jack, but it's advertised to be just for providing power to other devices.

Confused,
Roger

User avatar
subultresk
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 464
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:29 pm
Location: Wildeshausen

Post by subultresk » Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:57 am

Thanks thetechnobear!
Very good points!
studying MPE now:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-26 ... l3e1clv7vt


I hadn't mentioned it, but the x/y/z was the reason for my interest in the RISE.
:party:
Last edited by subultresk on Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_____________________

bohnes.de

User avatar
soundwave106
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1728
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:16 pm

Post by soundwave106 » Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:12 am

subultresk wrote:I'm not the biggest fan of MIDI (128 steps/speed), but for this purpose it seems to be acceptable.
I hope, the Bend (glide) will be transmitted in 14bit (16384 steps) - it's the only controller which would be insufficient with 128 steps.
(Pitchbend is normally transmitted with MSB/LSB which results in 14bit.)
Yes, I wish their site had a little less of the Apple style glossy ads and a little more of the nitty-gritty on the MIDI transmission details, how its configured, what dimensions actually are recorded with what movements etc. The FH-1 should be perfect for something like this, but you would need to configure it to whatever CCs or MIDI codes the Rise spits out.

I have a Linnstrument and it's true... having an X/Y/Z controller really opens up new styles of playing. Of course, not everyone needs this sort of thing, but this is a nice announcement -- the price point is not bad at all compared to previous multi-dimensional controllers.
BC | SC

thetechnobear
Common Wiggler
Posts: 230
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:17 am
Contact:

Post by thetechnobear » Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:53 am

robotmakers wrote: Are you suggesting a simple USB "A" to MIDI DIN cable would actually work? The RISE does have a USB "A" jack, but it's advertised to be just for providing power to other devices.

Confused,
Roger
Sorry your correct, I saw the USB A, and assumed it was hosting... not quite sure why you put an A on a musical device to power other devices, iPad I guess :hmm: missed opportunity

but quite a few devices can do the hosting e.g. an Axoloti board could host, and then transmit over DIN. (Axoloti.com)

they now have the video of the RISE performance on youtube :bananaguitar:

[video][/video]

User avatar
tehyar
I dream in SciFi
Posts: 1086
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:23 am
Location: Ohio, USA

Post by tehyar » Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:38 am

Fyi I sent an email to ask some specifics that were missing from the specs. This was the reply.

Yes, the RISE's battery is rechargeable. It automatically recharges when connected to USB. An AC mains adaptor is not included but will be made available as as optional extra and would also charge the battery. The RISE also has a USB A port which can be used to power an iPad when powered by AC mains.

There was a slight delay in updating our website but you should now find that the support page of our website contains FAQs about the RISE.

https://roli.com/support

User avatar
Infrablue
This sentence is false
Posts: 1093
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:10 am

Post by Infrablue » Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:07 pm

subultresk wrote:
tehyar wrote:Took a whole 5 minutes to decide to preorder this.

It's clear from comments everywhere that most people don't actually understand what it can do.
My story was quite similar: the decision to preorder took about 5 minutes. :hihi:
After reading other discussions in other forums i also would second that many of the (arguing) people don't understand enough of the "environment" (which might include musical knowledge or instrumental skills).

From my view (i'm a pianist) it's not another keyboard - it only represents the layout of a keyboard. Haken Continuum is the leading instrument of "this kind", but ca. 5000.- minimum (with CV and case) is simply too expensive for most of us. The Madrona Soundplane and the Linnstrument are better for guitar players.

Therefor Seaboard managed a huge step with offering this interface for 800.-!

Although i haven't tried it i appreciate the changes:
1. smaller/less keys than the GRAND
2. shallower built
3. changes in materials and structure (not that soft/deep/contoured)
4. added controllers (and the two usage-modes)

Since we are talking about a 800.- controller (which is neither cheap nor expensive):
i also appreciate that it comes with a case (on the photo it looks like a cover)!

If i'm not wrong it can be used easily with an Expert Sleepers FH-1 as a CV-contoller without any additional computer. (I read too often "it doesn't have CV!".)

I'm not the biggest fan of MIDI (128 steps/speed), but for this purpose it seems to be acceptable.
I hope, the Bend (glide) will be transmitted in 14bit (16384 steps) - it's the only controller which would be insufficient with 128 steps.
(Pitchbend is normally transmitted with MSB/LSB which results in 14bit.)

Since i'm using Max/MSP and Expert Sleepers modules it looks like a step forward. The RISE seems to be pretty open to be integrated into very different setups. It will need the one or other extension/expansion, but even with the expansion the price will stay somewhere around 1000.-.

That is quite remarkable!

Again: it's not a new piano. One might need two hands for playing something that could be played with one hand on a piano, but you get the Slide and the Glide - that's pretty powerful! - especially together with the instant possibility of changing the parameter mappings (one of the two controller-modes) it could be very helpful to quickly change the instruments behavior (besides the parameter values).

To me it looks like a couple of good decisions @ Seaboard.

What can't be purchased is practice on a daily basis... Every instrument asks for practice.
So well said. I'm excited to hear what you think of it when you get it and a few months in. Especially the feel and comfort. You are so right about the practice part... especially these kinds of human expression instruments need practice. Sometimes a great deal and with great rewards.

I also find that many people who buy such instruments playing them in such a traditional way that if you close your eyes you only imagine some normal keyboard controller. And then there are those that really go deeply into the human expression. Sounds like you fully get this and I'm excited to hear your playing on it.
New Breath Control Demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTiWw4rL ... bAqEVbUEOE
Lifeform Blues (wind synth/EVI at about 4:30): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4VpSFhVa1I
My demo of the Steiner 24 Stage Vactrol Phase Shifter/String Filter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh1-A_dYY6Y
Site for my classical/modular/wind synth project:http://thepinesofmars.com/

User avatar
robotmakers
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 655
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:52 am
Location: New York, NY

Post by robotmakers » Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:04 pm

thetechnobear wrote:- it has USB class compliant midi, and you can get cheap USB to Midi DIN cables... so no computer required.
EDIT: sorry, as pointed out below looks like USB A, is just power not USB host, so you will need a USB host device to convert to MIDI DIN
As it turns out, the RISE is NOT capable of standalone use. The following is ROLI's reply to my very specific question in which I ask if it's class compliant and if I can connect it to a USB MIDI host like the Kenton USB MIDI host box for use without a computer:

"At the moment the RISE will need to be paired with a computer to host the software. It will be possible to send the MIDI data on via a MIDI interface from the computer, but standalone USB operation is not yet implemented."

I guess there could be some hope that their firmware could be rewritten to be USB class compliant and therefore allow standalone operation, but I'd rate that as unlikely. For the time being, it is certainly going to need to be tethered to a computer.

Disappointed,
Roger

User avatar
subultresk
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 464
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:29 pm
Location: Wildeshausen

Post by subultresk » Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:45 pm

Sorry to read about your disappointment, Roger!

Of course - it means you'll have to wait if you don't want to use a cpu (or iPad?), but could the reason for that necessity also comprise some "positive" aspects which are closely related to the instrument?

I've just read through the MPE document and start to realize, how much (or what parts) of MIDI is in the need of an altered interpretation (or new "layers") for working with this kind of interfaces.
I'm pretty sure that this MPE "speciality" (the "MPE mode") isn't "downward"-compatible and this also might evoke the cpu necessity/problem.

To me, this sounds damn interesting! :tu:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-26 ... dit?pli=1#
_____________________

bohnes.de

User avatar
soundwave106
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1728
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:16 pm

Post by soundwave106 » Fri Sep 11, 2015 4:15 pm

subultresk wrote:I'm pretty sure that this MPE "speciality" (the "MPE mode") isn't downward-compatible and this might evoke the cpu necessity/problem.
It's certainly possible to implement hardware MPE. The Linnstrument has MPE now and also has class compliant USB (along with the old school din MIDI variety). (The Linnstrument runs on an Arduino Due; no idea what the Rise uses.)

Reading reviews, it seems like for whatever reason the ROLI Seaboard does not directly send MIDI either. Instead it sends data to a "dashboard program" which converts things into MIDI for you. The dashboard also allows you to program the Seaboard's configuration, so my guess is that interface influenced the decision not to directly spit MIDI out more than speed or power.

So it's just like a cut down Seaboard, unfortunately it's a decision that tethers you to a computer. Around here (modular world and all) that might be an deal-breaking issue. :sadbanana:
BC | SC

User avatar
robotmakers
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 655
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:52 am
Location: New York, NY

Post by robotmakers » Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:35 pm

soundwave106 wrote:It's certainly possible to implement hardware MPE. The Linnstrument has MPE now and also has class compliant USB (along with the old school din MIDI variety). (The Linnstrument runs on an Arduino Due; no idea what the Rise uses.)
Indeed, I already have a Linnstrument, and being able to use it as a compact portable controller away from the computer is the attraction. I have another portable modular synth that I thought the RISE would work nicely with. Here's how neatly the Linnstrument works standalone with a Kenton Pro Solo and a TTSH.

Cheers,
Roger

[video][/video]

User avatar
tehyar
I dream in SciFi
Posts: 1086
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:23 am
Location: Ohio, USA

Post by tehyar » Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:23 am


User avatar
synthesymphony
Common Wiggler
Posts: 108
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2015 8:01 am
Location: US

Post by synthesymphony » Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:41 am

rew_ wrote:it's an $800 two-octave midi keyboard. gtfo
It emulates string action/you change pitch and tone with your fingers! Really neat functionality. I will buy one used whenever I see it cheaper than 800. :)

Post Reply

Return to “General Gear”