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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Reflex LiveLoop Sampler
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, ... 18, 19, 20  Next [all]

Based on the feature list, how would you rate the Reflex LiveLoop?
Amazing!
72%
 72%  [ 170 ]
Pretty Good
15%
 15%  [ 36 ]
Too Complicated
11%
 11%  [ 26 ]
Too many HP for my rack!
1%
 1%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 236

Author Reflex LiveLoop Sampler
Modulus
Sandrine wrote:
Moog$FooL$ wrote:
woah!!! that looks groovy. thumbs up
i don't use euro..... but just wanted to say hi & right on to a fellow BC wiggler that's building some awesome!

good luck, i'm wishing u success & hope to see & hear more about this.

SlayerBadger! w00t nanners Rockin' Banana!

Strangely enough, today I was down at our local music store (in Powell River) and asked Doug if he ever gets people coming in asking for modular stuff. Not surprisingly he said no, never.
Then I said, well there must be lots of "Wigglers" down in Van.
I get back and there's your post. Weeeerd man!

Thanks for the kudos, and I'll try not to disappoint!

Modulus wrote:
I'm definitely interested if this is pre-assembled. Really like the per slice granular and echo fx controls.

Also, can you load samples off sd card? Or is this planned for future expansion? This is my main gripe with the ginko sample slicer is having to record loops every time the modular is restarted. It's a huge time waster to get really tight drum loops with perfect timing.

Anyways great work and will watch this thread for updates


OK I must disappoint on the SD Card solution. Funny enough I have the same sort of view as the builder(s) of the Ginko. It takes the spontaneity out of live sampling, and also adds a lot of complexity/cost. I.E. wave formats, time issues, huge overhead to deal with >4Gig SD cards, loading time, file organization/selection, expansion interface issues...

I considered it quite a bit, but as one wiggler put it "That's what DAW's are for" ...
For now, one could use a MIDIbox T/G and create a DAW playlist with the audio sample and note T/G's embedded in the same file/section/playlist to trigger Record/stop/slicing. Depending on the length of the sample being worked with, this may take a few seconds to nearly 3 minutes to "set up" but it's an option, and a precise one for getting those slices right. I use FL Studio and have done this with original sampler, well more or less.

I must say in all fairness, the Reflex LiveLoop is being designed with expansion to many many more features ( MIDI I/O, CV, T/G etc. firmware upgrades) in mind. That's why the core is so complex, and is taking so long smile


Thanks. I tend to disagree about the daw statement. I usually prepare my loops in audiomulch with trash2 and liveslice and then record into sample slicer or transfer to sd then to bastl grandpa. However I'm still interested in your module nevertheless. Looking forward to demos!
Sandrine
bennelong.bicyclist wrote:


Ok, holy good! So what's the engine under the bonnet (hood)?


It's a PIC, just like the original Sampler, I've been programming PICs for almost 20 years, so it seemed the logical choice.

Modulus wrote:

Thanks. I tend to disagree about the daw statement. I usually prepare my loops in audiomulch with trash2 and liveslice and then record into sample slicer or transfer to sd then to bastl grandpa. However I'm still interested in your module nevertheless. Looking forward to demos!


Well I think that comment was more geared to saving the sample(s) on SD Card come to think of it. Even with a PIC controlling the SD there's SD the latency issue, so still need a large quick access RAM to load the samples into, so they can be quickly accessed for looping grains and other fast access functions.
cyphersum
Awesome! The layout is packed like a Harvestman module, nice work getting all that functionality in there. Looking forward to this coming out.

Greetings from 160km south of you.
Sandrine
cyphersum wrote:
Awesome! The layout is packed like a Harvestman module, nice work getting all that functionality in there. Looking forward to this coming out.

Greetings from 160km south of you.


Thanks cyphersum

Just cut out the final panel today, will get knobs on it tomorrow and check if it's "too" packed. It'll be nice to have a panel in any case, all this wish-boarding is messy!

Seattle I'd guess right?

Cheers
Sandrine
Prototype panel and boards done!
I've used a transparency overlay for the panel, then glued it on with silicone, so excuse the wrinkly appearance, it'll serve durably through the testing phase.



The big Rate knob (Tayda) is almost too big, but it looks good. The only real finger jam is when plugs are in both feedback jacks, the feedback knob is a bit tight. It's one of those less used knobs so it should be ok.
The tiny buttons are easy to get at surprisingly enough, and the GM PLAY FX mode is a blue LED now.
The REC LED is missing as it's a bi-color and I can't find them. I know I have some somewhere hmmm.....

Anyway, theat's it for now, let the fun begin!
leeski
Sandrine wrote:
Leeski:
Great, guess I'd better augment the run size, looks like we'll need them!


Yeah i guess you could as this is swell thing to do to get it out there
applause
Sandrine
Yes I think we will.

If there's any "how to" questions or concerns about the Reflex, don't hesitate to post them here! Even though the firmware can be updated, I'd like a very decent V. 1.0
geecen
This looks really great! I'm looking forward to the DIY version coming out as I'm not in the money at the mo. Great work. applause
Sandrine
geecen wrote:
This looks really great! I'm looking forward to the DIY version coming out as I'm not in the money at the mo. Great work. applause


Yep, got that. It'll be a while before the DIY version, trying to figure out how to separate the extremely tiny chips from the bigger parts for a DIY. At present everything is mixed together for the fully built version.


Update:
Have added MIDI to one of the ports temporarily for background settings adjustment and fine tuning. It's easier than typing stuff into serial interface. I might leave it in there not sure yet. If fully implemented it could do more, but it'd be up to you to add the MIDI TX driver, opto-isolator, and MIDI jack(s). Maybe a future add-on...?
jackmattson
Sandrine wrote:
bennelong.bicyclist wrote:


Ok, holy good! So what's the engine under the bonnet (hood)?


It's a PIC, just like the original Sampler, I've been programming PICs for almost 20 years, so it seemed the logical choice.

Modulus wrote:

Thanks. I tend to disagree about the daw statement. I usually prepare my loops in audiomulch with trash2 and liveslice and then record into sample slicer or transfer to sd then to bastl grandpa. However I'm still interested in your module nevertheless. Looking forward to demos!


Well I think that comment was more geared to saving the sample(s) on SD Card come to think of it. Even with a PIC controlling the SD there's SD the latency issue, so still need a large quick access RAM to load the samples into, so they can be quickly accessed for looping grains and other fast access functions.


As long as this thread is about features, I would really love to have an SD card so that I can load prerecorded loops or even use the live slicer to record loops up to 175 sec (or loooooonger if it had a mode just to record to the SD). been wanting these features for so long I even thought of making something like this my self one day.
Sandrine
jackmattson wrote:
Sandrine wrote:
bennelong.bicyclist wrote:


Ok, holy good! So what's the engine under the bonnet (hood)?


It's a PIC, just like the original Sampler, I've been programming PICs for almost 20 years, so it seemed the logical choice.

Modulus wrote:

Thanks. I tend to disagree about the daw statement. I usually prepare my loops in audiomulch with trash2 and liveslice and then record into sample slicer or transfer to sd then to bastl grandpa. However I'm still interested in your module nevertheless. Looking forward to demos!


Well I think that comment was more geared to saving the sample(s) on SD Card come to think of it. Even with a PIC controlling the SD there's SD the latency issue, so still need a large quick access RAM to load the samples into, so they can be quickly accessed for looping grains and other fast access functions.


As long as this thread is about features, I would really love to have an SD card so that I can load prerecorded loops or even use the live slicer to record loops up to 175 sec (or loooooonger if it had a mode just to record to the SD). been wanting these features for so long I even thought of making something like this my self one day.


In regards to SD Card operation with the Reflex, there's numerous problems that aren't easy to overcome, programming & design being the least of them.

At the highest SPI rate, to dump The Reflex's memory on to an SD Card would take appx. 66 seconds, and that's pushing the SD's SPI design limitations. Unfortunately, the load time would be about the same. This is because us "non corporations" are pretty much confined to using SPI without breaking the law. Even Akai Professional's MPX series are limited to this speed. This has made their customers very very angry.

A post on Microchips forum pretty much sums it up:

Quote:

Keep in mind your PIC is writing at 1bit/transfer speeds where as your PC is probably using both a higher clock rate (you can do this too provided the PIC supports it) AND the wider bus-width of 4bits. (Is sounds like you've already read the legal print with using the 4bit width, right?)

The 1wire (1 bit he means) (SPI) mode is pretty much public domain whereas using the higher bandwidths (via 4bits) -- is proprietary requiring NDA's and fee's and such so that serious companies sign up and get the specs after sending in their check.


This applies to newer SD Card formats as well, which would add yet another license fee and so on.
Computer readers are highly mass produced so can afford the licensing fees, but us mere mortals can only praise the velocity (50M/s)

I may give it a go at the SPI rate, but as I estimated, 66 seconds is a long time to load/save. Shorter sample lengths of course would be faster.
jackmattson
Sandrine wrote:

At the highest SPI rate, to dump The Reflex's memory on to an SD Card would take appx. 66 seconds, and that's pushing the SD's SPI design limitations. Unfortunately, the load time would be about the same. This is because us "non corporations" are pretty much confined to using SPI without breaking the law. Even Akai Professional's MPX series are limited to this speed. This has made their customers very very angry.
if you can read and write 170 seconds in 66 seconds, isn't that faster than realtime? Meaning if you buffer your writes to say a second of audio you can write it in .5 seconds and grab the next buffer and the same with reading. Once it's read to ram you have your cache. Doesn't work if you are grabbing random slices from a file faster than 2x your buffer but for writing would seem fine, but I'm no expert on I/o.
Sandrine
jackmattson wrote:
Sandrine wrote:

At the highest SPI rate, to dump The Reflex's memory on to an SD Card would take appx. 66 seconds, and that's pushing the SD's SPI design limitations. Unfortunately, the load time would be about the same. This is because us "non corporations" are pretty much confined to using SPI without breaking the law. Even Akai Professional's MPX series are limited to this speed. This has made their customers very very angry.
if you can read and write 170 seconds in 66 seconds, isn't that faster than realtime? Meaning if you buffer your writes to say a second of audio you can write it in .5 seconds and grab the next buffer and the same with reading. Once it's read to ram you have your cache. Doesn't work if you are grabbing random slices from a file faster than 2x your buffer but for writing would seem fine, but I'm no expert on I/o.


It is almost 3X real time, but he want's to load and save whole samples, and the load time in particular is unacceptable don't you think?
My Akai MPX-8 can hold 8 samples, and if they're even 8 seconds long each, it takes literally for ever to load, or it seems that way! A real butt pain on stage I'll tell ya.

I am still open to attempting it, I'll make up a little board and tack it on with little jumpers and give it a try sometime in the upcoming week.

I just don't want to get bad reviews with people saying things like "takes forever to load" or "my cheap card reader is way faster" etc. Not good Karma. Dead Banana
jackmattson
You can load the sample to RAM with 1 buffer latency no?
Sandrine
Yes. So you're saying live recording directly to the SDC?
CRC error
Please try again
jackmattson
Personally I wouldn't mind if it was limited to dumping from ram. However would a USB flags drive have the same issues?
Sandrine
I don't know what the speed would be. I can't find any info on that at all, just the Arduino USB host shield.
There's a large amount of processor overhead involved (i.e. another ATMEGA2560 added) and the power consumption is kinda scary. Also there's the NTFS vs. FAT limitation, FAT being the format, or so it seems.
In theory though the USB Flash should be much faster as I had considered using a dedicated Flash chip to save/load samples and it was pretty quick.
This method wouldn't be able to load or save to PC so it was dropped early on.

In any case, I'll give the SD card thing a try when I get to it.
-edit- I'm looking at a PIC to interface an SD Card. I bit-banged one years ago, but could push the SPI quite a bit I think.
roqeja
THIS IS VERY EXCITING. Count me in!
Modulus
Sandrine wrote:
jackmattson wrote:
Sandrine wrote:

At the highest SPI rate, to dump The Reflex's memory on to an SD Card would take appx. 66 seconds, and that's pushing the SD's SPI design limitations. Unfortunately, the load time would be about the same. This is because us "non corporations" are pretty much confined to using SPI without breaking the law. Even Akai Professional's MPX series are limited to this speed. This has made their customers very very angry.
if you can read and write 170 seconds in 66 seconds, isn't that faster than realtime? Meaning if you buffer your writes to say a second of audio you can write it in .5 seconds and grab the next buffer and the same with reading. Once it's read to ram you have your cache. Doesn't work if you are grabbing random slices from a file faster than 2x your buffer but for writing would seem fine, but I'm no expert on I/o.


It is almost 3X real time, but he want's to load and save whole samples, and the load time in particular is unacceptable don't you think?
My Akai MPX-8 can hold 8 samples, and if they're even 8 seconds long each, it takes literally for ever to load, or it seems that way! A real butt pain on stage I'll tell ya.

I am still open to attempting it, I'll make up a little board and tack it on with little jumpers and give it a try sometime in the upcoming week.

I just don't want to get bad reviews with people saying things like "takes forever to load" or "my cheap card reader is way faster" etc. Not good Karma. Dead Banana


Personally, I would love to be able to just load perfectly trimmed 1 or 2 bar drum loops. I'm not too interested in saving back. With sampleslicer the biggest drawback is taking the time to record perfect loops so that it is tightly in sync with everything else. I think a slightly slow SD card load time would definitely be better than manually trying to record perfect drumloops from a laptop, ipad, etc into the module, especially in a live situation. Thanks for all your efforts! This module is going to kick serious arse
Sandrine
So Modulus, you're just thinking on looping loops of drums then right?
(That would be a clock into the slice trig input (to keep it simple) and no slices so the first slice would just play when there's a clock edge.
I guess that would be the "roll" point of a sequencer clocking.)

I'm asking because the peak slicer does a marvelous job of auto-slicing drums, even just ones from a track or recording.
If the slice CV is controlled by a sequencer, with the slice trigger coming from the gate, different drums can be selected as the sequencer plugs them in there.

http://www.freshnelly.com/tunes2015/samsampeakslicedrums.MP3

The only disadvantage that can be heard here is the slices aren't playing in the order they were recorded in so tend to be monophonic in nature.

If they were just played in the proper sequence/order, they would carry through. Tempo can also be changed too of course.
Modulus
Quote:
So Modulus, you're just thinking on looping loops of drums then right?


Yeah exactly. Load up a one or two bar breaks loop. Enable slicing, then modulate the slice/pitch/etc via sequences and EG/LFO

The sample sounds cool so far. Would love to hear what the module can do glitching up the Amen break. I think this would be a nice benchmark example
NS4W
Is it in a demoable state yet? oops
Sandrine
NS4W wrote:
Is it in a demoable state yet? oops


Almost, still doing the UI.
mapmap
nice

keep up the good work!
Sandrine
Hi fellow sampler lovers!

I've been busy at work with the Reflex, and see a light at the end of the tunnel. There were a couple of nasty bugs, but both are solved and things are back on track.

I've been monkeying with the Echo mode, and recorded a bit of it here (yep the monkeying time sometimes surpasses the actual "work" time on the Reflex)

http://www.freshnelly.com/tunes2015/4tim-dec17.MP3
I didn't post it on SoundCloud because for some reason the comments won't stay.

These were all done as mono because the output of FX (L) was feeding into RP (R) just for fun.

0:00 to 0:57 Sampling in a simple sequence to echo (blending in), then modifying the sample Rate with a CV from the Gate of the sequencer

0:58 to 4:44 Sampling in a slow attack synth and then switching to infinite echo, then subtly modulating the rate with an LFO, then a sequence while switching to and from infinite echo. The original synth notes were only on for the first few seconds. This shows the slight/slow drop in fidelity after many echos.
More notes are added at the end.

4:44 to end Live sampling (in echo) just my voice, showing different ways to modify an echo. Both sides are connected in series so the first echo less than the second and further.
I used LFO sine, triangle, square, with various offsets, even the audio coming out of the feedback jack. I restarted the echo several times, some at very fast rates (by setting the Rate knob down, then tap start/ tap time on REC button, then returning the rate back up) My voice was mixed back in a bit.
This is not PlayFX, just playing with the echo, infinite echo, and Rate and Rate CV input, with flat EQ.

I'm saving PlayFX for a video or two because it has so many facets to it, and it needs to be seen.

Here's using the echo with a foot switch, actually just a drum piezo pedal, which will work with the Reflex in trigger mode.

http://www.freshnelly.com/tunes2015/echoBlues.mp3

It's an 8 second echo or so. It can be used like Layer in a way, except the "punch-in's" aren't aligned to the the loop point, and if not tapped to be infinite echo, will decay over time.

I turned down the feedback a bit midway, so it would fade away.
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