Pioneer TORAIZ SP-16 Sampler

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AdamJay
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Post by AdamJay » Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:56 am

CF3 wrote:
h4ndcrafted wrote:What's the scene button for ?
SCENE is just probably a collection of Sequences, much like a lot of other machines (and Ableton for that matter). Useful for live song structure.
Bummer, if so.
Was hoping for OT style Scene or even Rytm style macro Scene.

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Post by GovernorSilver » Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:19 am

Villarceau wrote:
GovernorSilver wrote:To be truly a competitor to the Octatrack, it would need parameter-locking or at least some kind of parameter automation.
To be a competitor to the octatrack it would need better sound (quite possible) and more outputs (check) if does do live sampling. I had the Pioneer RMX-1000 and it supported entering little unquantized rhythm sequences on the mini-sample player. If it will sport a few nice effects (I'm not sure it will) with sufficient nuances, this is a competition for both the octratrack and rytm especially because this is going to be easy to use, for some users that will matter a lot. The fact that this can synched to a CDJ is the major selling point for me: it would be a great way to gig without a computer and using minimal gear.
I should have specified that as far as I am concerned, it needs parameter locks or parameter automation.

A lot of haters say the Octatrack has terrible sound so it wouldn't take much for a new product to "sound better". After all, "good" or "better" sound is highly subjective.

Yes, it has more outputs than Octatrack. See http://www.pioneerdj.com/en-us/news/201 ... sequencer/

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Post by heckadecimal69 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:06 am

GovernorSilver wrote:
AdamJay wrote:I hope this forces Elektron's hand in pushing out an Octatrack 2.


There's no Monomachine 2, Machinedrum 2, etc. That's the Elektron way.
actually...
:miley:

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GovernorSilver
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Post by GovernorSilver » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:30 am

heckadecimal69 wrote:
GovernorSilver wrote:
AdamJay wrote:I hope this forces Elektron's hand in pushing out an Octatrack 2.


There's no Monomachine 2, Machinedrum 2, etc. That's the Elektron way.
actually...
:miley:
Ok, you got me. There is a Machinedrum MkII.

But they did release Analog Rytm later. And did not call it MachineDrum III

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AdamJay
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Post by AdamJay » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:41 am

Also Monomachine mk2.

I doubt we'll get an "Analog Samplr"

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Post by GovernorSilver » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:56 am

AdamJay wrote:Also Monomachine mk2.

I doubt we'll get an "Analog Samplr"
Yeah but for some reason instead of Monomachine 3 we have Analog Keys/Analog 4.

I don't think the next-gen sampler will have that name either - that's why it didn't make the list of names I speculated would be used.

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Post by Hi5 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:57 am

The more I look at this, assuming the FX and time stretching are good, I could see this replacing my OT for live gigs especially when they start showing up used.
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Post by AdamJay » Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:24 am

GovernorSilver wrote:
AdamJay wrote:Also Monomachine mk2.

I doubt we'll get an "Analog Samplr"
Yeah but for some reason instead of Monomachine 3 we have Analog Keys/Analog 4.

I don't think the next-gen sampler will have that name either - that's why it didn't make the list of names I speculated would be used.
No one is talking about an Octatrack 3 here, so not sure what you're arguing here.

Octatrack mk2 would fall in line with Elektron's history of revising existing products (the subject at hand here). Hence, Monomachine Mk2 is named as such, and not named the "Vertdaferk?".

For some reason? Really?
If you need help understanding why the Analog 4 is named as such and how it is a different product than the Monomachine and not a revision of the Monomachine, I would suggest you look at the specifications of both product lines.

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Post by h4ndcrafted » Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:32 am

DiscoDevil wrote:All the talk about Pioneer build quality has me scratching my head. Pioneer stuff is generally feature rich and has a nice finish but is notoriously poor in build quality and longevity. I'm always surprised when I play on a Pioneer mixer that's more than a year old and is still fully functional.
I haven't used pioneer gear for a while, most of the gear I had my hands on was analogue mixers and such, they took a battering quite frankly. They can't be that bad, enough clubs had them installed. Although Formula Sound seemed to be quite a common choice.

Maybe it is the idiot proof layout, but I haven't teamed Pioneer with bad build quality at all. It is just not exceptional quality.

I'd take a Pioneer over Elektons, which isn't bad by any means.

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Post by GovernorSilver » Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:36 am

AdamJay wrote:
GovernorSilver wrote:
AdamJay wrote:Also Monomachine mk2.

I doubt we'll get an "Analog Samplr"
Yeah but for some reason instead of Monomachine 3 we have Analog Keys/Analog 4.

I don't think the next-gen sampler will have that name either - that's why it didn't make the list of names I speculated would be used.
No one is talking about an Octatrack 3 here, so not sure what you're arguing here.

Octatrack mk2 would fall in line with Elektron's history of revising existing products (the subject at hand here). Hence, Monomachine Mk2 is named as such, and not named the "Vertdaferk?".

For some reason? Really?
If you need help understanding why the Analog 4 is named as such and how it is a different product than the Monomachine and not a revision of the Monomachine, I would suggest you look at the specifications of both product lines.
Sorry, man. I was having a bit of fun with the "Octatrack 2" thing. Didn't think it would upset you that much.

Half the names I put up were from the Ikea catalog.
Last edited by GovernorSilver on Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by h4ndcrafted » Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:45 am

So what are the pads like on these modern Pioneers ? I read they are the same as some controller they do, prob for serato.

Anybody used it and can report on the quality and feel ?

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Post by h4ndcrafted » Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:48 am

AdamJay wrote:
CF3 wrote:
h4ndcrafted wrote:What's the scene button for ?
SCENE is just probably a collection of Sequences, much like a lot of other machines (and Ableton for that matter). Useful for live song structure.
Bummer, if so.
Was hoping for OT style Scene or even Rytm style macro Scene.
Unless it is a collection and their setting, which kind of the same on the su and ableton now I think of it, now clips hold automation data.

Nothing about groove functionality too, big one for me, can't stand working on this sort of thing if you can't at least nudge to make your own swing or have templates. Basic swing seems a bit low spec now days.

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Post by CF3 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:20 pm

h4ndcrafted wrote:
AdamJay wrote:
CF3 wrote:
h4ndcrafted wrote:What's the scene button for ?
SCENE is just probably a collection of Sequences, much like a lot of other machines (and Ableton for that matter). Useful for live song structure.
Bummer, if so.
Was hoping for OT style Scene or even Rytm style macro Scene.
Unless it is a collection and their setting, which kind of the same on the su and ableton now I think of it, now clips hold automation data.
I think this would be a base-case scenario. Sequencers from the 80's can do this sort of thing. By definition that's what a scene is. I just hope it includes everything......effects, filter, the slider automation, etc.

I also agree about "groove" or swing, but I would think if you're gonna include pads, you're gonna have to have unquantized sequencing or what's the point? All it would take is DELAY per step like on the Cirklon for the step sequencer.

Again, MUST. SEE. MANUAL. Help a brother out Pioneer. :omg:

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Post by computer controlled » Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:45 pm

Way too expensive. Seems more marketed towards cotton candy edm "djs" rather than serious production. For the price, it better have proper effects per channel, not their "DJ EFEX", and the sample mangling better be on par with the OTs. Parameter locking, muting should be at trigger level, not on the actual audio track. And serious MIDI sequencing capabilities. Otherwise, not interested.

This just makes me miss my Octatrack even more.
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Post by GovernorSilver » Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:47 pm

Good point - why would you give the user pads but not let the user turn off quantize.

Some MPC users are famous for their real-time MPC pad drumming.

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Post by h4ndcrafted » Wed Apr 06, 2016 3:52 pm

Well I think there is obviously going to be some sort of automation per pattern, otherwise why have assignable touch slider.

I think there is no point comparing it to the Octotrack, I highly doubt the sequencer will be as advanced, more like a basic Mpc with realtime time stretch.

Having a master filter makes me think this isn't going to be about creating tracks, how often do you want to filter the master ? This part just seems like a gimmick. Maybe you can send stuff to the filter as already mentioned ?

This is more a remix tool to bridge the dj/production gap. I just think Pioneer are gonna get a lot of hate bc people really want a new hardware production sampler, and this is going to be more a DJ thing for ready made loops, not to work from the ground up. But then they have it in a production category.

I doubt it will have a very good sequencer at all for anything than local pattern based performance.
Last edited by h4ndcrafted on Wed Apr 06, 2016 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by h4ndcrafted » Wed Apr 06, 2016 3:53 pm

Derpt

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kstl
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Post by kstl » Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:23 am

[video][/video]

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Post by xonetacular » Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:59 am

so on the plus side we learned it does live sample

only has one set of inputs though. didn't hear anything about more than 16 step sequences either. and it inherited the DJM effects...

I just hope this might force elektron to start putting out units with decent displays.

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Post by blinosynth » Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:21 am

xonetacular wrote: I just hope this might force elektron to start putting out units with decent displays.
...and no more irritating OS

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Post by h4ndcrafted » Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:38 am

kstl wrote:[video][/video]
Sounds as if it isn't finished enough to give more detail , editing etc ?

Good to hear it has enough Ram, Pioneer aren't exactly going out of their way to sell it, which is why I think it is so unfinished.

I'm assuming you will be able to resample, hopefully with the filter.

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Post by johnnylonz » Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:16 am

h4ndcrafted wrote:Sounds as if it isn't finished enough to give more detail , editing etc ?
Good strategy IMO. I'd rather have them be a little coy on the features now and over-deliver on the finished product.

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Post by CF3 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:01 am

Pretty useless video honestly. I really don't need Dave Smith telling me how magical an analog filter is. Short on actual info. Nick was struggling to pry specs out of the other dude. I appreciate the sales pitch and everything, but get somebody who can talk intelligently on the subject. Details people, DETAILS.

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Post by h4ndcrafted » Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:15 am

This on the GS thread..

'I just had a very nice dinner with the lead software programmer/designer of the Toraiz. Sampling from the audio input is possible. Additionally, you can resample through the analog filter section'

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Post by johnnylonz » Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:35 am

Little more info here:

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2016/04/w ... 6-sampler/

Confirms MIDI sequencing in later firmware, can chain 4x16 step sequences, can do swing and shuffle, possible DAW integration in the works.

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