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MOTM 1190 Dual VCA Info Sought
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Fractional Rack Modules  
Author MOTM 1190 Dual VCA Info Sought
Babaluma
Info and opinions sought on the MOTM 1190 Dual VCA. Will it be happy with receiving CV's in the 0-10V range (for example from my VCS and Blacet EG1), or will it "freak out" above 5V?

All of my other 40 odd Frac modules seem very happy with 0-10V, so I don't want to introduce any confusion into the works.

I recently sold my Quad Mix/VCA and ordered a new Super VCA to replace it. I still have a pair of Blacet Dual Linear VCAs, and am wondering if and why I should replace them with the 1190. I am happy with the Blacet Dual Linear VCAs, but if the 1190 can offer better sound quality/headroom/functions then I'd like to replace them with it. Anyone have experience with both?

Thanks in advance,

Gregg
Cat-A-Tonic
You're welcome to try mine out and hear for yourself.
The 1190 definitely sounds nice pushing into soft clipping/gain boost.
It is nice to have independent inputs for linear and exponential CV simultaneously available for mixing envelopes and LFOs.
Quote:
The MOTM-1190 contains a "soft clipper" that begins when the output exceeds 10V peak-peak.

The EG1 and the Micro LFO both have attenuators on their outputs, so I never have problems with over-voltage.
I don't know about the VCS.

I think that for your space concerns it's just a question of whether you need 4 linear VCAs for CV functions,
or 2 really nice VCAs with more individual control for audio.
I think the 1190 would be the ideal stereo output in Frac,
especially for your mastering/post processing work.
Babaluma
thanks for the info.

there are no attenuators on my micro lfo's, did you add them on yours? i usually patch them through passive attenuators anyway, so it wouldn't really be a problem, but i was just wondering exactly what voltage the 1190's work with, as i have seen it written as 0-5V and 0-10V.

it seems from research that people rate the sound quality of the 1190 very highly. it would mean swapping from 4 vcas to just 2, but then i very rarely use both of the dual linears (all 4 vcas) at the same time anyway, and the super vca is hopefully also on its way soon, so...

i've never used the modular for mastering, although i wouldn't rule it out one day! a lot of modules are just not matched well enough to use for truly accurate stereo processing. my 2 borgs and 2 boogies all sound and respond a bit differently etc.

but yeah, i like the idea of a really nice VCA that can impart its own nice character (albeit at extremely high quality) to the final outputs of my modular.

any other opinions?
DGTom
I've never used the 1190, so take this with a grain of salt.

Looks as tho the Super VCA will cover the crossfading / panner stuff that the Dual Linears do - that'd be the first thing I'd miss.

Have you looked at the Oakley Classic VCA as an alternative? I just got one from krisp1 & its fantastic! Having Audio & CV mixers on board is really usefull, the first thing I was able to do was mimic patches that usually use two VCAs by working with both the Lin & Exp CV ins.

The Oakley sounds really nice driven hard as well... that reminds me, I should check if its expecting 5V or 10V hmmm..... having attenuators on all the inputs makes it kind of moot anyway. For density & control I think the Oakley has the advantage over the Synth Tech, but I don't mind the almost cramped layout, others may feel differantally.
Cat-A-Tonic
Babaluma wrote:
there are no attenuators on my micro lfo's, did you add them on yours

I must have had my brain on backwards.
I was thinking about the wave mod/CV atten for the rate input.,
not on the outputs d'oh!
Somehow the wave mod knob does seem to help smooth things out though; when a CV is not applied to the rate.

but yeah, no problems using the 1190 with other Frac stuff. (especially with a handful of passive attenuators)
The 1190 has attenuators on the linear CV inputs anyway. (but not on the exponentials)

I think it would be more troublesome having to amplify CV from 5v envelopes to fully open 10v VCAs.

DGTom has a good point about the Oakley being another option.
I haven't tried that one, but the Oakley does expect 5v to fully open.
Babaluma
thanks for all the info guys. hadn't considered the krispy oakley, but i do much prefer the appearance of the motm 1190. it shouldn't really be a consideration, but it always is with me. lol
Cat-A-Tonic
Babaluma wrote:
i do much prefer the appearance of the motm 1190. it shouldn't really be a consideration, but it always is with me. lol

Ha, you want something to symmetrically balance your 1490 Ladder VCF.
hihi
Babaluma
ok, just about to order the 1190. all discrete class a vcas here we come!

i do wonder how they might sound when running an entire mix through them with a smidgeon of overdrive.

i also can't wait to try them with the following patch: 3 vcos into 1490 ladder vcf into 1190 vca for some really nice berlin school sequences with the mobius!
chamomileshark
I've been doing something similar..after spending about 45 mins trouble shooting various problems (everything is working fine, it was more in the routing out to outboard and mixer)..fun times when I got it going.
J3RK
I loved mine when I had it. No problems with voltage coming from Blacet EG1s (as mentioned above.) The issue I had was triggering a Quad VCA with the MOTM EG (until I did the 5V mod.)
Babaluma
thanks! it's been ordered and is shipping today from analogue haven, so hopefully i'll have it in about a week. really looking forward to hearing the sound coming out of it as the last vca in a patch.
paults
Remember, it has "soft clipping" distortion when you really crank the gains up.
Babaluma
thanks paul, it just arrived on my doorstep, gonna crank it up now! wink
Babaluma
well it's certainly a gorgeous sounding vca!

i posted some mp3 links to its first patch here:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18606

adding just a little bit of overdrive sounds very nice. unity gain is around "7" on the pot. i've found that there is a similar unity gain before overdrive on the 1490 filter.

and this morning i've been running my guitar into the avalon u5 to bring it up to line level, and then into the 1190 cranked for some very nice overdrive.

it doesn't "click" as much as my blacet vca's on extremely fast attacks or releases from an envelope, so i am wondering if it is a "slower" vca?

i haven't tried it with audio rate AM yet, but that's next on the list!

fantastic sounding work paul!
paults
The 'clicking' is called CV Feedthrough.

This is a condition where if the audio in = 0 (ground) and we apply a fast envelope, the output should be also 0V. But, due to mismatched DC offsets on the VCA gain stage, a small fraction of the envelope "appears" on the output as a DC voltage.

On the 1190, this is trimmable (to a point). TP1 and TP2 are the trims for this. I set it before shipping, but it's a bit "system dependent" so your setup may need a tweak. In some cases you can't get rid of it entirely but you can adjust it to a minimum.
Babaluma
thanks for the info paul.

my 1190 has less of the clicking than the blacet vcas, which i actually like, because it makes for a slightly smoother sound choice, so i'll be leaving my trim pots alone. wink
ckett
This VCA in combination with the MOTM Envelopes is about the best VCA/Envelope combination out there. Really nice range, response and feel.
Reptil
how is that VCS and 1190 combination?
anyone tried with a Cwejman or Doepfer?
Babaluma, these are with a different envelope than the VCS, right?

http://darkflame.hermetech.net/Musick/PhatSynth1.mp3

http://darkflame.hermetech.net/Musick/PhatSynth2.mp3

http://darkflame.hermetech.net/Musick/PhatSynth3.mp3
Babaluma
yes, those patches above were with the blacet eg1 feeding the 1190.

never tried using the VCS as an envelope with the 1190, but i am pretty sure it would sound great!

had my bass into avalon u5 into motm 1490 filter into motm 1190 vca last night, with a little overdrive from the filter and a little more from the vca, playing dub reggae lines, and it was sounding HUGE!!!



8_)
Reptil
SlayerBadger! excellent! thanks!
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