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Cirklon Users
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Author Cirklon Users
neilmcm1975
Any cirklon users out there looking for any feedback on using one with eurorack or any other equipment , is it easy to program etc . Who is using the eurorack expande or d mux boxes .
CF3
I use one with eurorack via the CVIO euro panel. Works great. Still waiting on a D-MUX. Supposedly the next OS updated will have the long awaited "CV IN" feature. Still not sure exactly what that will entail?

In general the Cirklon is very easy to use. There's kind of 2 levels to it... The top, obvious level of just straight forward sequencing, then the more deeper level of Aux Events, Accumulators, Inter Track events, etc.. Plenty there to keep you busy.

There's a bunch of threads here on Cirklon related topics. As well as the Sequentix forum, which is also easily searchable. In fact there's a recent "Cirklon with Eurorack" thread over there with some good info on setting up the CVIO.
Heavenly3lues
Cirklon and Eurorack:


The cirklon is incredibly easy to use, but also incredibly deep. It was my first true hardware sequencer, outside a brief month with a beatstep. I was making music within minutes of firing it up. But even a year later, I've barely scratched the surface with its depth. IMO, it's an instrument/piece of gear you buy for life... and it will keep on giving the deeper you dig.
neilmcm1975
Thanks guys is the cirklon the only sequencer you own now , I have a rene , turing machine and DU Seq and would probably sell them all and have the cirklon as my main hub.
grantmoney
I have a Cirklon with the CVIO as well as a Shuttle Control, both of which interface well with Eurorack. Once you get your head around the flow, the Cirklon is quite intuitive. You do need to reference the manual (or google) here and there to work out how to do certain things, but once you have the basics down, you can work quickly without needing much help.
grantmoney
neilmcm1975 wrote:
Thanks guys is the cirklon the only sequencer you own now , I have a rene , turing machine and DU Seq and would probably sell them all and have the cirklon as my main hub.


I have a few sequencers - rene, PP, klee, turing, Moskwa, autobot, umm - probably some other ones I forget. I haven't used them at all since the Cirklon. I'll probably go back to them at some point, for the change in flavour maybe, but who knows - I may never need to again (which would be great).
sleestack808
Are these things shipping ?
dubonaire
sleestack808 wrote:
Are these things shipping ?


Yes, you just need to get on the wait list.
Nelson Baboon
you realize of course that most of the time you only get fanboy type responses in these threads.....

I found the cirklon actually rather a pain to use. I didn't get on with the display, and I found programming the aux events, in actually, somewhat of a chore.

I'm not sure why you'd spend this kind of $ if you're not into using the aux events. There are other sequencers that do a fine job of just programming straightforward sequences, and note that an actual analog sequencer can go at much more extreme tempos, if you're into that kind of thing.

For really crazy sequencing, if that's what you want (most people don't), get multiple cheaper sequencers with different capabilities. Don't sync them. throw in a little live recording of one to the other....one thing that none of the current sequencers can do (correct me if I'm wrong) is run different tracks at unrelated tempos. The closest is the Schrittmacher, which (unless the Cirklon has been enhanced in this area) has far more granularity in its note lengths.

yeah - sorry - the cirklon is great. I just get cranky when I see people talking about how it's the BEST, and recommending it when people aren't really specifying what features they want, what kind of workflow they want, etc.
Fentune
Nelson Baboon wrote:
you realize of course that most of the time you only get fanboy type responses in these threads.....



http://innerclocksystems.com/New%20ICS%20Litmus.html

Sequentix: Cirklon - Step Sequencer

> MIDI TX - Max. Jitter between MIDI Notes: 3 samples (0.06)

> Gate Out - Max. Jitter between Steps: 3 samples (0.06)

Source: MIDI Clock - Sync-Gen II

> MIDI TX - Max. Jitter between MIDI Notes: 3 samples (0.06)

Average Offset - DAW Grid: 40 samples (0.83ms)

> Gate Out - Max. Jitter between Steps: 3 samples (0.06)

Average Offset - DAW Grid: 40 samples (0.83ms)


Those are facts^

The sequencer is one of the (if not the) tightest available. It's the King.
Kazremark
I love my Cirklon, and it's pretty much the brain of my entire studio. I have a lot of gear (both MIDI and CV) and Cirklon controls all of it. I don't sequence at all in the computer anymore, just use Bitwig/Logic to record audio. 90% of my sequences are the step sequencer P3 patterns but I do use some event list CK patterns, for instance longer chord progressions that I play on a keyboard and just want to record. Generally, I find CK patterns a little futzier to edit than I'd like. I use aux events on most P3 patterns, most of the time its just some simple stuff like adding a bit of probability to how often certain notes will play, or randomizing velocity or note length a little bit, or setting up accumulators so that a pattern transposes up and down cyclically within a certain range. I've gotten into crazier aux programming a bit, and have always gotten interesting results, but I'd use complex aux routing a lot more if I could save snapshots of aux setups. Colin says he's working on this feature so we might eventually see it. If you're looking to have a sequencer thats the brain of your entire studio, and willing to put in a little effort to learn your own ways to use it I think it's a fantastic choice.
Kazremark
Btw, I kept my analog sequencing modules, clock dividers, etc that I had in my modular. Cirklon can't be clocked externally in the same way that an analog step sequencer can be triggered by a completely warped analog trigger signal. Even if it could, I wouldn't want to use it that way. I use the Cirklon for programmed, predictable sequencing. In the modular context I'll send a master clock from it but then I'll have all sorts of clock divisions and randomizations applied to my sequencing modules. The Cirklon is then used to reign things in again through transpose CV or by sending reset triggers.
oldgearguy
Nelson Baboon wrote:
you realize of course that most of the time you only get fanboy type responses in these threads.....

I found the cirklon actually rather a pain to use. I didn't get on with the display, and I found programming the aux events, in actually, somewhat of a chore.

I'm not sure why you'd spend this kind of $ if you're not into using the aux events. There are other sequencers that do a fine job of just programming straightforward sequences, and note that an actual analog sequencer can go at much more extreme tempos, if you're into that kind of thing.

For really crazy sequencing, if that's what you want (most people don't), get multiple cheaper sequencers with different capabilities. Don't sync them. throw in a little live recording of one to the other....one thing that none of the current sequencers can do (correct me if I'm wrong) is run different tracks at unrelated tempos. The closest is the Schrittmacher, which (unless the Cirklon has been enhanced in this area) has far more granularity in its note lengths.

yeah - sorry - the cirklon is great. I just get cranky when I see people talking about how it's the BEST, and recommending it when people aren't really specifying what features they want, what kind of workflow they want, etc.


I settled on a Cirklon even though I agree with a lot of what you posted. For me, it is a decent compromise between the MPC 3000 (linear sequencer) and the Latronic Notron (step mode sequencer, more or less). Yes the screen is still smaller than I'd like, there's an excessive amount of extra functions that need to hold down Shift or press and turn and encoder, but there's also a lot of good ideas in it as well.

I also agree that a lot of owners (including me) are using a relatively small subset of the available features. However, even in the minimal use mode, it brings a number of things that make it a good (but expensive and delayed) purchase -

5 MIDI Ins and Outs,
DIN Sync out,
Ability to record MIDI and soon cv/gate inputs,
up to 64 tracks of either pattern or linear sequencing,
decent cv/gate outs (with the CVIO addition),
drum multiplexer (with the D-Mux addition),
current support, ongoing development, easy upgrading of the OS

I still have an analog step sequencer and I still have the Notron because sometimes they are the right tools for the task and I can still record the output into the Cirklon and have everything synced up without recabling.

IMHO Cirklon's Song Mode is still difficult and mostly crap, but then again I've felt that way about every hardware sequencer I've used. Patterns, single tracks - pretty much everyone nails this part. What to do with the bits and pieces always feels like it was bolted on afterwards rather than designed in from the ground up.

Someone should take a parallel approach to sequencing that Waldorf did with the Wave -- the Wave was in permanent Multi-Mode. Even if you wanted to listen to just 1 sound across all 16 voices, you still essentially had to load it into a multi.

For sequencers, they should be in permanent song mode. Then give you the ability to drill down and record 4 bars or an entire backing track, always in the context of the song. That way, you could start with an empty song and navigate to the various sections/tracks you wanted to work on and zoom back out to hear it in context. By focusing on song mode, you should be able to bang in a 16 step sequence and have it loop forever as well as record a single sustained pad sound that spans 5 minutes on a different track.
Muzone
Battled with a Cirklon for a while, really tried to bond with it but just couldn't get over the fact that it was far too much a data entry exercise and devoid of any tactile experience.

Powerful yes, for sure - and great mechanical connectivity, just found it unusable due to lack of human connectivity - great if you like to program music but not so good if you're more improvisational (IMO of course!)
dubonaire
Muzone wrote:
Battled with a Cirklon for a while, really tried to bond with it but just couldn't get over the fact that it was far too much a data entry exercise and devoid of any tactile experience.

Powerful yes, for sure - and great mechanical connectivity, just found it unusable due to lack of human connectivity - great if you like to program music but not so good if you're more improvisational (IMO of course!)


Id be interested to know what sequencer gives you the 'tactile' experience that Cirklon doesn't give, and what you replaced it with.

Nelson Baboon, no one in this thread said it's "the best". So you are tilting at windmills. I agree with what people in this thread have said about what is good about the Cirklon though.
Nelson Baboon
dubonaire wrote:
Muzone wrote:
Battled with a Cirklon for a while, really tried to bond with it but just couldn't get over the fact that it was far too much a data entry exercise and devoid of any tactile experience.

Powerful yes, for sure - and great mechanical connectivity, just found it unusable due to lack of human connectivity - great if you like to program music but not so good if you're more improvisational (IMO of course!)


Id be interested to know what sequencer gives you the 'tactile' experience that Cirklon doesn't give, and what you replaced it with.

Nelson Baboon, no one in this thread said it's "the best". So you are tilting at windmills. I agree with what people in this thread have said about what is good about the Cirklon though.


True, I am somewhat consolidating this thread with others where people rave about the Cirklon. But their opinion that it's 'the best' resonates throughout, without it being expressed explicitly in those words.
Nelson Baboon
oldgearguy wrote:
Nelson Baboon wrote:
you realize of course that most of the time you only get fanboy type responses in these threads.....

I found the cirklon actually rather a pain to use. I didn't get on with the display, and I found programming the aux events, in actually, somewhat of a chore.

I'm not sure why you'd spend this kind of $ if you're not into using the aux events. There are other sequencers that do a fine job of just programming straightforward sequences, and note that an actual analog sequencer can go at much more extreme tempos, if you're into that kind of thing.

For really crazy sequencing, if that's what you want (most people don't), get multiple cheaper sequencers with different capabilities. Don't sync them. throw in a little live recording of one to the other....one thing that none of the current sequencers can do (correct me if I'm wrong) is run different tracks at unrelated tempos. The closest is the Schrittmacher, which (unless the Cirklon has been enhanced in this area) has far more granularity in its note lengths.

yeah - sorry - the cirklon is great. I just get cranky when I see people talking about how it's the BEST, and recommending it when people aren't really specifying what features they want, what kind of workflow they want, etc.


I settled on a Cirklon even though I agree with a lot of what you posted. For me, it is a decent compromise between the MPC 3000 (linear sequencer) and the Latronic Notron (step mode sequencer, more or less). Yes the screen is still smaller than I'd like, there's an excessive amount of extra functions that need to hold down Shift or press and turn and encoder, but there's also a lot of good ideas in it as well.

I also agree that a lot of owners (including me) are using a relatively small subset of the available features. However, even in the minimal use mode, it brings a number of things that make it a good (but expensive and delayed) purchase -

5 MIDI Ins and Outs,
DIN Sync out,
Ability to record MIDI and soon cv/gate inputs,
up to 64 tracks of either pattern or linear sequencing,
decent cv/gate outs (with the CVIO addition),
drum multiplexer (with the D-Mux addition),
current support, ongoing development, easy upgrading of the OS

I still have an analog step sequencer and I still have the Notron because sometimes they are the right tools for the task and I can still record the output into the Cirklon and have everything synced up without recabling.

IMHO Cirklon's Song Mode is still difficult and mostly crap, but then again I've felt that way about every hardware sequencer I've used. Patterns, single tracks - pretty much everyone nails this part. What to do with the bits and pieces always feels like it was bolted on afterwards rather than designed in from the ground up.

Someone should take a parallel approach to sequencing that Waldorf did with the Wave -- the Wave was in permanent Multi-Mode. Even if you wanted to listen to just 1 sound across all 16 voices, you still essentially had to load it into a multi.

For sequencers, they should be in permanent song mode. Then give you the ability to drill down and record 4 bars or an entire backing track, always in the context of the song. That way, you could start with an empty song and navigate to the various sections/tracks you wanted to work on and zoom back out to hear it in context. By focusing on song mode, you should be able to bang in a 16 step sequence and have it loop forever as well as record a single sustained pad sound that spans 5 minutes on a different track.


Excellent response, and yes - I love what you say about the ideal sequencer.

Perhaps my cynicism about the Cirklon stems from the fact that I don't really care much about the features that you list. Of course, other people do really like these features, so I'll admit that it skews my opinion a bit.

Well, except for recording cv/gate - that would be great. I remember the recording of midi to be a bit awkward. perhaps I remember this incorrectly.

Would these events be quantized at the track's time division, or at a higher resolution?
Muzone
dubonaire wrote:

Id be interested to know what sequencer gives you the 'tactile' experience that Cirklon doesn't give, and what you replaced it with.



I craved a Cirklon for a long time, and it took awhile to save the cash and find one for sale - massive disappointment in the end, it was going to solve so many of my music "problems" meh

But it taught me a good lesson about my personal relationship between "machines to produce music" and music and pretty much cured me of GAS into the bargain!

So, "Post Cirklon" my music became increasingly less concerned with the "note as an event" and moved into a more ambient/drone style - for a few years I just used audio loops on MD & HDR, synth arpeggiators and live playing.

Now I work my MIDI synths with a couple of Arpies and a BSP, and still use a lot of drones/loops.
This set up does everything I want and doesn't involve any data entry - my music is now a place where I want to be grin

Anway, long answer to a short question and bit of a thread derailment, so yeah, the Cirklon wasn't for me but perhaps I just got it at the time my music style was changing, who knows......
c0nsumer
Years ago I assembled and owned a handful of Sequentix P3s (from the kits) and really liked playing with them, but at the time I didn't have enough instruments to make it worth it. Sold them off, etc.

I'm now getting into modular stuff and have put myself on the Cirklon waiting list. Really looking forward to it, as there's something about the P3 which just clicked, and I expect the Cirklon to be similar, but with CV and all that.

(And yes, it helps that due to limited availability, resale value is basically the same as new. If this weren't the case I wouldn't be buying one... But being able to sell it without a big loss if I don't get along with it is important to me for such a costly thing.)
CF3
First and foremost, it helps if you understand where the Cirklon (and by extension Colin) is coming from. It's a x0x based sequencer (with a piano roll style seq thrown in there too). Secondly, what type of music do you do? Noise, "experimental", drone, ?????. I'd look elsewhere. Thirdly, are you a person who refuses to read manuals and has ADD? Again, I'd would go with something else. Cirklon is going to take a certain investment in time and brain power to get the most out of the Aux Events and Accumulators.

It's also heavily MIDI based. It's definitely a programmers machine. The Cirklon is a sequencer that you could have for 10 years and still find new ways of using it (I had a P3 and I'm learning new aux event combos even now). I would say having a controller hooked up is a must (I've got mine set up like a MPC to some extent in many ways). Song Mode needs a big upgrade IMO, but then again, I build up Scenes, then do the actual Song structure live (like Ableton Session View) and record the audio (and tweak further there). There's certain aspects of the Cirklon I couldn't live without at this point like Random Gate Mask, Sculpt, etc..

There is no best anything. It's a ridiculous concept to start with. That kind of thinking is for people that want trophies not tools.
oldgearguy
Nelson Baboon wrote:

Well, except for recording cv/gate - that would be great. I remember the recording of midi to be a bit awkward. perhaps I remember this incorrectly.

Would these events be quantized at the track's time division, or at a higher resolution?


I agree about the MIDI recording. It's better, almost to the MPC point of hit start, record stuff, hit stop or let it loop. There's still some fiddling about, but it's pretty OK once you do it a while.

Here's what Colin said recently about cv/gate input:
(doesn't exactly answer it, but the current cv in can generate a fairly dense stream of data, so I imagine he'll be able to record at full resolution and then you can thin it down or not)

I've been working on the CVIO firmware and link protocol this week.

The upshot of this is that I'll be able to get much better response time to external stimuli on the gate pins.
It also looks like I'll be able to use all 10 ADC bits for CV input.
Plus I'm going to off-load the calculation of CV output slide curves to the CVIO CPU.
That will take some load off the main CPU, but more importantly will greatly reduce the bandwidth used on the serial link, which further improves external response time.
Still some way off getting this into a release, but it's coming..
Nelson Baboon
oldgearguy wrote:
Nelson Baboon wrote:

Well, except for recording cv/gate - that would be great. I remember the recording of midi to be a bit awkward. perhaps I remember this incorrectly.

Would these events be quantized at the track's time division, or at a higher resolution?


I agree about the MIDI recording. It's better, almost to the MPC point of hit start, record stuff, hit stop or let it loop. There's still some fiddling about, but it's pretty OK once you do it a while.

Here's what Colin said recently about cv/gate input:
(doesn't exactly answer it, but the current cv in can generate a fairly dense stream of data, so I imagine he'll be able to record at full resolution and then you can thin it down or not)

I've been working on the CVIO firmware and link protocol this week.

The upshot of this is that I'll be able to get much better response time to external stimuli on the gate pins.
It also looks like I'll be able to use all 10 ADC bits for CV input.
Plus I'm going to off-load the calculation of CV output slide curves to the CVIO CPU.
That will take some load off the main CPU, but more importantly will greatly reduce the bandwidth used on the serial link, which further improves external response time.
Still some way off getting this into a release, but it's coming..


I asked about the cv record because a nice implementation of this could wipe out all of my reservations about the machine, and cause me to get on the waiting list again. I like the results when this is quantized to the track resolution (as on the Komplex), but that sequencer, being primarily analog, allows greater tempo extremes than the cirklon. Of course, at very fast tempos, one cannot record many events....

Ideally, if there could be a sequencer, that in addition to midi events, allowed you to record fairly long passages of cv at close enough to full resolution that the playback would sound continuous, and also convert these to midi controllers (I guess these would have to be at the midi resolution) - I would want such a machine. I think that the Pyramid comes closest currently (?), but I'm not sure at what resolution it can record cv, or if I'm hallucinating whether it actually can. The tetramaps allows you to modulate its midi by cv input, which is really nice, but doesn't allow you to record the events.
sleestack808
I am on the waiting list. I had money set aside for it, but spent it. I'll just buy one used someday maybe. It is the ultimate of what we've been waiting for for years, Only, if you have a huge studio. I think you really need some serious gear. Big modular. 4 synths. samplers. drum boxes with trigger in and a nice big mixer to really use the Cirklon properly. Otherwise. what for?

And, the waiting time is ridiculous. Seriously
Nelson Baboon
sleestack808 wrote:
I am on the waiting list. I had money set aside for it, but spent it. I'll just buy one used someday maybe. It is the ultimate of what we've been waiting for for years, Only, if you have a huge studio. I think you really need some serious gear. Big modular. 4 synths. samplers. drum boxes with trigger in and a nice big mixer to really use the Cirklon properly. Otherwise. what for?

And, the waiting time is ridiculous. Seriously


uh - one synth if you get into the aux events, and you're using the Cirklon properly.
sleestack808
depends on what you want to make.

the cirklon is really made for connecting lots of stuff. Its a dream come true for keeping a tight sequence going under different connection protocols
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