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Frac vs. Euro -- not asking 'why'
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Fractional Rack Modules Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 [all]
Author Frac vs. Euro -- not asking 'why'
drumsofd00m
fracmonkey wrote:
You could even make the wood strips replaceable.


That's a great idea. Furniture makers should do this for certain parts (children's tables' edges, etc). Modular furniture instead of throw-away furniture. But then they would make less money...

I may use this to hop off the fence about going wood entirely and retiring the modular's SKB cases. Great idea.
ektoquip
Not really trying to bump this thread, but somehow I got knocked off the update email and missed a lot of traffic.

Here's my thinking on a couple of issues.

"Flimsyness"? --- Take a measurement of the thickness of the front panel. A panel made from .032 is more flimsy than a panel made of .05 or .062. That's simple enough. Nothing to debate.

Mounting? --- I TOLD myself time and time again. "You're NOT gonna DIY! You're NOT gonna DIY!" But I've become enamored by some these recent things I've learned here and now I'd LOVE to do some more DIY!

I wanna put some bananas on Euro gear. nanners Wanna do it. (we talked about this.) Seems some are already way ahead of me.

I have zero compunction about drilling new holes in either form of gear. Moving frac holes out is easy. Not a factor. BUT if I build my own cabs, especially in wood, it's also a non-factor.

Personally, I think with all the pedestrian Euro gear out there, the numbers are just too big. Frac should come with two sets of holes allowing for mounting either way. A power supply adapter (buck or zener or something) should also exist shortly.

IMO, the entire community will soon see the inherent advantages of bananas and in a decade, it'll all be Euro format banana panels.

'Course, that'll probably piss-off EVERYONE. But Apple does that kind of thing all the time so why not?

EQ
drumsofd00m
ektoquip wrote:
Not really trying to bump this thread, but somehow I got knocked off the update email and missed a lot of traffic.


It's not clear if you expect an update email for each post, but if so, no, you only get one until you visit the thread again while logged in .

Quote:
Here's my thinking on a couple of issues.

"Flimsyness"? --- Take a measurement of the thickness of the front panel. A panel made from .032 is more flimsy than a panel made of .05 or .062. That's simple enough. Nothing to debate.


We were debating perceived flimsyness of rack rails, not front panels. And no, it's not that simple, as Mr Blacet pointed out regarding L-shaped vs U-shaped rails. (Similar to Moog Unit modules having flanges at the sides for stabilization whereas e.g. 6U Wiard modules don't. And just to make sure on this: Blacet front panels are quite robust)

Quote:
A power supply adapter (buck or zener or something) should also exist shortly.


Hinton Instruments can make you +/-15V PSUs with added 12V taps, as mentioned before in this thread. There may be others too, I don't know.

Quote:
IMO, the entire community will soon see the inherent advantages of bananas and in a decade, it'll all be Euro format banana panels.


That's a dream. Euro is popular partly because it's cheap (compared to Buchla, Serge, Wiard, and also to 5U if you count real estate as money). Bananas are expensive. And they don't allow for normalled connections.
And with hundreds over hundreds of modules already out there... just no.

Even Serge... I don't know STS vs R*S sales figures vs DIY figures, but anyway, even Serge is now being built in relevant quantities with 3.5mm after 45 years of mostly bananas.

Quote:
'Course, that'll probably piss-off EVERYONE. But Apple does that kind of thing all the time so why not?


Because the modular synths "cottage industry" isn't the personal computer industry.
ektoquip
drumsofd00m wrote:

Hinton Instruments can make you +/-15V PSUs with added 12V taps, as mentioned before in this thread. There may be others too, I don't know.

They could... or i could make my own, i guess.
drumsofd00m wrote:

Euro is popular partly because it's cheap (compared to Buchla, Serge, Wiard, and also to 5U if you count real estate as money).

Oh... okay.
See, the perspective I woulda used is "not crazy overpriced". But then, maybe we're saying the same thing. I'll let the marketplace decide.
drumsofd00m wrote:
Bananas are expensive. And they don't allow for normalled connections.
And with hundreds over hundreds of modules already out there... just no.

Hmm... this is sounding like an old and baseless debate - including bouts of denial. But I'm new here so maybe not.

I'm not seeing the 'expensive' part of bananas. The wire comes in spools. The ends are available in bulk. Fabricating a custom size is faster than attaching ONE END of a 3.5m. In fact, fabricating a stacking 3.5m is a bit of a pricey trick. With a banana, it's one setscrew. And those patch cables do flex and wear with the banana being far cheaper to keep in the long run -- though admittedly not a typical issue.

But then, the Chinese pound these out fast, so, I dunno maybe so...

I'm not sure anyone's done a survey, nor have real numbers, but my guess is that normalled connections amount to something well below 1% in total number of Euro patch points. So that shortcoming seems more imaginary than real.

drumsofd00m wrote:

Even Serge... I don't know STS vs R*S sales figures vs DIY figures, but anyway, even Serge is now being built in relevant quantities with 3.5mm after 45 years of mostly bananas.


I wouldn't be predisposed to tell Serge, or anyone else, how to run their company. I'm sure they'll explore everything they feel is best to increase sales.


ektoquip wrote:
'Course, that'll probably piss-off EVERYONE. But Apple does that kind of thing all the time so why not?
drumsofd00m wrote:

Because the modular synths "cottage industry" isn't the personal computer industry.

Huh.... really.....


EQ
drumsofd00m
To call a few specific points a baselass debate is uncalled for. I applaud your bravado but you need to polish up your knowledge on some things.
The point re: normalling is that you *can* apply your own normalizations between modules with phone type jacks. Granted, it's becoming a forgotten art as people who constantly trade modules will hardly do it, but others have modded their Frac/ Euro/ Wiard systems that way, or built their own semimodulars from these components plus normalizations. Your point is valid too, just don't dismiss something before you see the whole picture.
Serge hasn't run a modular company for something like 30 years, he granted certain (differing) rights or arrangements to Rex/ STS back then and to Random*Source more recently.
And increasing sales is precisely not a typical main goal in this cottage industry - sometimes on the contrary, due to capacity or simply non-desire (Grant? Don? Haha). Maybe it is for some newcomers in the last years in Euro, or BEMI, and maybe DotCom sells a lot, don't know. But generally and historically, you seem to have a distorted idea of the infrastructures of this market/ scene/ subculture. It is (or used to be) a designer's playground to some extent. Drop by the forum a little more often and maybe use a modular for a year or so instead of just 'turning this drone louder' ;-)
ektoquip
drumsofd00m wrote:
But generally and historically, you seem to have a distorted idea of the infrastructures of this market/ scene/ subculture. It is (or used to be) a designer's playground to some extent. Drop by the forum a little more often and maybe use a modular for a year or so instead of just 'turning this drone louder' ;-)

I remember climbing on my first modular in 1974 -- from the sounds of things, well before you were born.
However, it's always good to have an invitation to understand "historically" from an informed guide.
Further, as a business owner, I'll probably take the stubborn route of not listening to non-owners about business matters. It's a character flaw, i know.
Regardless, I have no need to swim upstream. Guinness ftw!

EQ
drumsofd00m
I can only reply to what you wrote, not what you think. And you asked for info on Frac vs Euro, which (plus other things) suggested you have at least some gap somewhere between 1974 and now. "Historical" means a course of things, not something static. So, nevermind if you felt unfairly criticized. Best of luck with your endeavours!
whomper
I started with Blacet, so my rack is 15v, which practically led me to only Frac.
When I started a new cabinet, I opted for 12v to enjoy Euro format as well
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