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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

LW *AND* 4U Stuff
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY  
Author LW *AND* 4U Stuff
J3RK
I thought I'd start a new thread for the Loudest Warning format things that I've been working on.

I'm taking a uniform panel size approach, and packing just enough into each one to make it worth a 4" space. I do want to be able to fill in a whole row of a CLee boat though, so I have some utility ideas for some central 1" panels.

A lot of the new PCBs are done. I've made one successful panel as well. This is fun!

I've started some optional IO boards. The wiring really isn't bad on these though, so I don't know if it's even worth it. I know people like them though, so I hope to have some available.

I'll post some pics and things in the next couple of posts.

Here's a partial list of PCBs. Some will be combined for a given panel, some may have individual panels, and some will be for the 1" central modules.

The PCBs are mixed. Some are TH, some are SMT. (in the case of SMT, I've used SOIC, 0805, SOD123, SOT23, etc. All very manageable)

Quad Quadrant - 1" - AD633 4Q Multiplier (Ring Modulator)
Operator VCO - TZ Phase Modulation VCO
UltraMirror VCO - Used on the Six Demon Bag VCO
UltraTimbre - Also used on the Six Demon Bag VCO
UltraClock - Simple V/Oct VCO with /2 /3 /4 division and start stop function (used on Three Four)
3-4 Flop - 3 or 4 stage selectable sequencer (used on Three Four)
Dual Angle - Two Linear Slopes, Analog Peak OR Mixer (used on Dual Angle)
Dual VCA - Two Linear VCAs (used on Dual Angle)
MultiState Filter - Pingable State Variable Filter with compensated V/Oct, controlled VC resonance, etc.
MultiFlop - 6/7/8 step sequencer with two separate CV control sets and outputs, plus switchable gates and separate switchable triggers, plus combined gate and trigger outputs. This one will DEFINITELY have an IO PCB as it would just suck to wire. hihi

An 8" FlexWave VCO module is possible as well. I haven't started on a panel for this yet though. I did have one in the works, but I'd like to start a new one that matches the new panel layouts better.

I have some percussion ideas as well. (combined functions normally seen in analog drums, but all brought to the panel to mix and match for a given drum type)

I'll add to the list. Those are just off the top of my head. I've laid out quite a few more, and have a few more being prototyped.
J3RK
PCB Items

First actually completed IO PCB w00t



J3RK
Panel Items

Here are a few panels. Working on more for the phase modulation VCO, a new output module, among some others.

























J3RK
Documentation Items


Operator Notes:

For 12V operation to get the sine waves right, the triangle shapers need the following modifications.

R43 and R49 should be 226K.
R42 and R48 should be 158K.

You can also decrease R60 and R65 a little bit to increase sine wave amplitude if needed. (maybe to 82K or even 68K)
J3RK
Misc Items
Scolbio
Amazing!

What is the Six Demon Bag?
jhulk
love it nice
J3RK
Scolbio wrote:
Amazing!

What is the Six Demon Bag?


Thanks!

It's an UltraMirror VCO plus a wave folding/timbre board. I made a bunch of improvements to the single VCO board that the MCVCO dual oscillator used, so I wanted to give it a whirl. Not to point you to a sale thread, but I put a post in there today with pics and a link to some sounds from it. I'm on my phone right now, but could put those here as well later. (also it's a reference to Big Trouble in Little China) hihi

I'll be laying out more panels as I get a bit of time here and there. I can post the FPDs too.
livefreela
these look great - i've been building your stuff into random source style 4x4 panels to play with the serge. these will be welcome additions!
clorax hurd
It is beautiful.

I found wiring quite easy on your previous boards, so I am not afraid of that.

I would like my modules as shallow as possible, so I wonder - I see 4 additional holes on most panels - I assume those are for PCB mounting? If yes, then for example "six demon bag" has 4 holes and needs 2 pcbs, so is it 2 holes per PCB and will there be two floors of PCBs behind the panel?
Also, no holes on quad gate.
(I usually end up epoxy glueing stand-offs to the panel so I don't have to use brackets, but I am not very happy about it as I am not sure how realiable it is
and not possible to check when mounted in case.

Anyway, will take few "Operators" and one "Three Four" for sure... (possibly even the other ones if/when my budget will allow it.)
J3RK
clorax hurd wrote:
It is beautiful.

I found wiring quite easy on your previous boards, so I am not afraid of that.

I would like my modules as shallow as possible, so I wonder - I see 4 additional holes on most panels - I assume those are for PCB mounting? If yes, then for example "six demon bag" has 4 holes and needs 2 pcbs, so is it 2 holes per PCB and will there be two floors of PCBs behind the panel?
Also, no holes on quad gate.
(I usually end up epoxy glueing stand-offs to the panel so I don't have to use brackets, but I am not very happy about it as I am not sure how realiable it is
and not possible to check when mounted in case.

Anyway, will take few "Operators" and one "Three Four" for sure... (possibly even the other ones if/when my budget will allow it.)


Thanks!!

Yes the small holes are M3 or 4/40 sized for PCB mounting. I actually haven't finalized the Quad Gate PCB yet, so that panel doesn't have the holes placed yet.

I use 3/4" standoffs, which just clear bananas, NKK toggles, etc.



J3RK
They can be stacked that way, or I can do more sets of holes for side by side, or even do combined function PCBs.

Even stacked using only two holes like above, it's VERY solid.
cygmu
Fantastic!

You might as well just send a couple of everything my way and invoice me smile
Jonachi
Great news!!! Thanks dustin
tojpeters
Nice work in a great format.
Jonachi
Best format and the nicest people! (in my opinion!)
fma
Guess I really need to wrap up my euro back log stuff now. This all looks fantastic.
SoundPool
for the dual angle, if this is the same circuit I may have asked you this already elsewhere... but can it be used as a utility osc like the DUSG? Or be used as a filter like the DUSG? Was planning on trying to use slope generators like that as the heart of my system since they are so versatile... but I'm not really keen on messing with the CGS boards and using the RS version would need to be re-paneled anyway. Having another slope alternative out there is great!
J3RK
SoundPool wrote:
for the dual angle, if this is the same circuit I may have asked you this already elsewhere... but can it be used as a utility osc like the DUSG? Or be used as a filter like the DUSG? Was planning on trying to use slope generators like that as the heart of my system since they are so versatile... but I'm not really keen on messing with the CGS boards and using the RS version would need to be re-paneled anyway. Having another slope alternative out there is great!


I was mostly going for an envelope when I did the Angle Generator since I tend to cram VCOs into just about everything. hihi As such they aren't voltage controllable in their current state. The will cycle well into audio ranges, but adjusting that is a matter of turning both the rise and fall of the slopes. So not hugely friendly as an oscillator I'm afraid. They do in fact slew/filter an incoming signal into the gate input, which is ok as a manually controlled filter, but once again, without additional control inputs, this limits the usefulness as a real filter. The UnoPole circuit on the DXOR PCB is a little better for this since it's fully voltage controllable. (makes a good pseudo-low-pass-gate)

There may be ways to add voltage control into this circuit, but I haven't explored the possibility much. My goal with it aside from wanting a linear slope, was to do it differently than the VCS/USG/281 circuits that are already out there. I didn't use norton amps, discrete logic, OTAs, or anything like that.

Mine is just an inverting integrator (like the core of a VCO,) CMOS gates, an op amp circuit that's more or less equivalent to a 555 IC, and some fast DG-series CMOS switches.

It may be possible to inject voltages/currents in before or after the switches, but I'm not sure how it would behave. I may revisit this at some point though. I've been asked a few times if this could be used as a base for a trapezoid generator as well, and much of what would go into that adaption could probably used to add voltage control as well I think. Honestly, I haven't really needed any of this extended functionality myself, but I realize people like the swiss army function generator approach too. w00t
tIB
Great to see the format growing and always admire your work. I'll probably add a couple of these in the long term...
cygmu
SoundPool wrote:
I'm not really keen on messing with the CGS boards


Without wishing to hijack the thread, I just have to say that if you're at all interested in building 4U modules in the Loudest Warning format then a CGS114 DUSG with one of Charlie's panels has to be high on the list! There's no reason to fear the CGS board -- if i can build them, anyone can.
nurbivore
cygmu wrote:
SoundPool wrote:
I'm not really keen on messing with the CGS boards


Without wishing to hijack the thread, I just have to say that if you're at all interested in building 4U modules in the Loudest Warning format then a CGS114 DUSG with one of Charlie's panels has to be high on the list! There's no reason to fear the CGS board -- if i can build them, anyone can.


That said, the CGS114 board is terrible compared to every other CGS board I've done. It's not through-plated, has a bunch of jumpers, and the power connectors are scattered all over the board so you can't use a regular MTA jack. Don't let it scare you off CGS, though, they're otherwise really nice to build.
SoundPool
perhaps I've been overly skeptical of CGS boards... I just feel like I have seen endless years of wiring questions and things like that always on CGS boards... it seemed as though there were some builds that were both either very unclear or had errors that were just never corrected, and it wasn't something I was keen to bother with.

thanks for the info on the dual angle. I appreciate the approach- not everything needs to be a swiss army knife, and particularly I don't think everything needs to have every aspect be VC'able. I don't use much of it anyway- generally I play things by hand or set and leave things playing them more via a mixer. sounds like trying to use it as a lazy man's DUSG would be a bit of a waste and its better suited for other purposes, but nice to know it can go up into audio and do all those fun things too.
a100user
Great to see more 4U modules that follow the multiples of an inch sizing. I really like Charlie's interpretation and designs. Charlie built all of these, combination of CGS, CLEE, STROH, MUTABLE etc

And I have space for a few more Mr. Green

Reality Checkpoint
^^^

Great cases for the LW format. Where did you get them?
DomMorley
Reality Checkpoint wrote:
^^^

Great cases for the LW format. Where did you get them?


Charlie makes and sells the cases for this format, and they're pretty cheap too - give him a shout.
geecen
These look really great. When/ where will they be available from?
Reality Checkpoint
Thank you Dom, I will contact him.

I am going to start building a 4U system beginning with the Slightly Nasty VCO and whatever he releases next and go from there. Haven't been so exited by SDIY in ages!

DomMorley wrote:
Reality Checkpoint wrote:
^^^

Great cases for the LW format. Where did you get them?


Charlie makes and sells the cases for this format, and they're pretty cheap too - give him a shout.
cygmu
Just to promote Dustin's designs a bit, I believe that the video in the post linked below shows the through-zero FM oscillator he's planning on putting out in this format. It sounds amazing!
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2480748#2480748

Edit: Arghh, made a thinko, it's a phase modulation oscillator rather than FM. I knew that! Sorry for any confusion. Dustin set things straight a couple of posts down.
a100user
DomMorley wrote:
Reality Checkpoint wrote:
^^^

Great cases for the LW format. Where did you get them?


Charlie makes and sells the cases for this format, and they're pretty cheap too - give him a shout.


What he said smile. The power module on the far right of each boat is also the power bus and services two boats, so there are two powered and two passive in the picture.

CLEE is putting together a similar boat so easier for you west of the pond folks.
the bad producer
cygmu wrote:
Just to promote Dustin's designs a bit, I believe that the video in the post linked below shows the through-zero FM oscillator he's planning on putting out in this format. It sounds amazing!
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2480748#2480748


That sounds amazing, not heard that yet! Almost like a digital wavetable VCO, but without all the horrible digital wavetable VCO bits I don't like ie better!

These all look great J3RK! nanners

(and yes, I do make boats from time to time hihi )
J3RK
Thanks!

Small distinction on the Operator VCO. It's a TZ PM implementation, so not quite like a Teezer, Zeroscillator, Rubicon. More like a Wiard Oscillator, with some differences.

And by all means, discuss all things LW here too. I'm excited for this as a format, not just what I'm working on.

w00t
cygmu
J3RK wrote:
Thanks!
Small distinction on the Operator VCO. It's a TZ PM implementation, so not quite like a Teezer, Zeroscillator, Rubicon. More like a Wiard Oscillator, with some differences.


Arggghh, I knew that!!! Sorry for my error above. At least my post served the purpose of getting Charlie to watch the video.
CLee
Nice work! More 4U, yea.

These look great. Interesting to see breaking out of the Serge Grid

J3RK wrote:
And by all means, discuss all things LW here too. I'm excited for this as a format, not just what I'm working on.

w00t


BTW, the boats are delayed a bit. The steel was warping when getting welded and heated in the powder-coating. So there's some redesign going on in the manufacturing. Also, I'm reducing the screws from M3 to M2.5 to add a little wiggle room in mounting. So now I'm waiting for a tool again...
J3RK
I've added more to the first few posts.

@CLee, sounds good on the M2.5 I never had a problem using those with Schroff rails. Washers will probably be needed. I was about to say there may be less variety of screws in M2.5, but Tacoma screw actually carries the black socket caps and such in M2.5 which is what I like to use.
DomMorley
Can I suggest that you upload to ModularGrid when you have panel designs? I find it very useful for planning my future boats.

Am thinking a full Stroh boat might be a beautiful thing....
J3RK
DomMorley wrote:
Can I suggest that you upload to ModularGrid when you have panel designs? I find it very useful for planning my future boats.

Am thinking a full Stroh boat might be a beautiful thing....


Sure, no problem! I'll need to export some uniform images. Most of them already are, but the 8" MultiFlop kinda threw off the measurements. hihi

I'll be starting on the 1" wide modules shortly. Now that I have an 8" template, I'll work on a FlexWave panel too.
J3RK
I'm nearing completion on a new Stereo Output module. It may end up being a little wide at the panel. It has manual and voltage control over everything in the main signal paths (panning per channel, level per channel). I'm working on effects loops now (one per channel) that will scale to line levels, then back for using non-modular effects. I kind of want to include LED VU meters, but that may be a bit much. The IC count is getting up there now. (30ish op amps (individual, so less ICs) and 4 THAT 2180 VCAs)

After I see how large the PCB needs to be, I'll start working on a panel layout. Should have it posted in the first section of this thread in the next couple of days.

Edit:

Actually, in the interest of keeping the panel to 4" I've set up the base circuit, so that I can build an expansion for the FX loops, VUs, etc. This way people that don't need those don't need to bother. For people that do, there will be an easily connected companion module. I'm starting the PCB and Panel Layouts now.

Edit Edit:

Panel is finished. It's on the first page with the others. Onto the PCB.

Edit Edit Edit:

PCB is almost done. I also updated the previous panels for consistency. I haven't updated the images though yet. Once I have the full projected suite of panels, I'll give them one more consistency check, and post the FPDs.

I haven't started on the 1" panels yet, but will when I wrap up the Output module and possibly the Flexwave 8" panel. It may get a few enhancements to the PCB as well and possibly an IO board.

I'm thinking CV Processors, Submixers, 4Q Multiplier, and some other conversion and processing type utilities for the 1" panels. The PCBs have all been either updated, redesigned, or are brand new compared to any previous iterations I've done.

One change that I've made is inclusion of precision references anywhere it matters. Envelopes and DC are now 0-5V instead of 0-10V now. This was done for a few reasons. Less current consumption and heat, especially with linear functions. It takes quite a bit of current to maintain linearity on a linear slope at 10V for example. I believe this also makes everything more friendly to every format except Buchla and default Blacet IIRC. Otherwise same standards as always. A lot less changes for 12-15 volt supplies now too due to the references being used.

Anyway, more updates soon!

w00t

Oh, and quick unreadable pic of the Output schematic. Will post the real one in the first page soon. hihi
J3RK
Just finished the PCB for the VC OUT module. Working on an IO PCB for it now.
Jonachi
That is some great news Dustin!
cygmu
J3RK wrote:
Envelopes and DC are now 0-5V instead of 0-10V now.


I guess this means not only that your CV generators are putting out 0-5V but also the modules respond fully to a 5V range on their CV inputs? Fantastic news if so.

I keep meaning to make a resistor change in my ultrafade so that the fade CV works fully on a Serge 5V envelope but then I get distracted and patch it up instead of reworking it smile
J3RK
cygmu wrote:
J3RK wrote:
Envelopes and DC are now 0-5V instead of 0-10V now.


I guess this means not only that your CV generators are putting out 0-5V but also the modules respond fully to a 5V range on their CV inputs? Fantastic news if so.

I keep meaning to make a resistor change in my ultrafade so that the fade CV works fully on a Serge 5V envelope but then I get distracted and patch it up instead of reworking it smile


Correct! In most cases it's just a summing resistor swap, so I'm noting it either way in the basic BOMs. All of the new circuits were designed that way in the first place.

w00t
J3RK


LeftyLogic
Oh that's pretty love
the bad producer
Indeed it is!

BTW J3RK - what are those LED things?
J3RK
Thanks!

The LEDs are Lumex "press fit" panel indicators (to use Mouser's terms).

http://www.mouser.com/Lumex/Optoelectronics/LED-Indication/LED-Panel-M ount-Indicators/_/N-b1d1p?P=1yzvdb5Z1z0zleiZ1z0javfZ1yxcy9e
kingspill
Wow, Dustin those look fantastic!

As a new convert from Eurorackland I have to say, I'm really excited about this format and the folks involved. I've had a few conversations with Dustin and with Craig and they've both been great to talk to and learn from.
J3RK
I put the first few 1U-width panel layouts in the panel drawing post. It's the Quad Quadrant (AD633 4Q Multiplier), Audio Mixer, and a CV Processor. I'm planning a revised Dual VCA, and maybe some logic modules as well.

Edit: Just added a panel that will work with the DXOR PCB.
thresholdpeople
J3RK wrote:
I'm nearing completion on a new Stereo Output module. It may end up being a little wide at the panel. It has manual and voltage control over everything in the main signal paths (panning per channel, level per channel). I'm working on effects loops now (one per channel) that will scale to line levels, then back for using non-modular effects. I kind of want to include LED VU meters, but that may be a bit much. The IC count is getting up there now. (30ish op amps (individual, so less ICs) and 4 THAT 2180 VCAs)

After I see how large the PCB needs to be, I'll start working on a panel layout. Should have it posted in the first section of this thread in the next couple of days.

Edit:

Actually, in the interest of keeping the panel to 4" I've set up the base circuit, so that I can build an expansion for the FX loops, VUs, etc. This way people that don't need those don't need to bother. For people that do, there will be an easily connected companion module. I'm starting the PCB and Panel Layouts now.

Edit Edit:

Panel is finished. It's on the first page with the others. Onto the PCB.

Edit Edit Edit:

PCB is almost done. I also updated the previous panels for consistency. I haven't updated the images though yet. Once I have the full projected suite of panels, I'll give them one more consistency check, and post the FPDs.

I haven't started on the 1" panels yet, but will when I wrap up the Output module and possibly the Flexwave 8" panel. It may get a few enhancements to the PCB as well and possibly an IO board.

I'm thinking CV Processors, Submixers, 4Q Multiplier, and some other conversion and processing type utilities for the 1" panels. The PCBs have all been either updated, redesigned, or are brand new compared to any previous iterations I've done.

One change that I've made is inclusion of precision references anywhere it matters. Envelopes and DC are now 0-5V instead of 0-10V now. This was done for a few reasons. Less current consumption and heat, especially with linear functions. It takes quite a bit of current to maintain linearity on a linear slope at 10V for example. I believe this also makes everything more friendly to every format except Buchla and default Blacet IIRC. Otherwise same standards as always. A lot less changes for 12-15 volt supplies now too due to the references being used.

Anyway, more updates soon!

w00t

Oh, and quick unreadable pic of the Output schematic. Will post the real one in the first page soon. hihi


Woah! Looking forward to this one. I was just thinking about effects sends......

Any plans on offering pcbs without panels?
thresholdpeople
Oh- I should add, that I think it'd be amazing if you had some sort of multi-expansion for the mixers so you can add as many channels as necessary, or perhaps multiple sends per channel... basically breakout points for the different function blocks.
J3RK
I was thinking of something along those lines. Maybe a bus routing PCB, and then individual or group channel strip sorts of things. I'm starting with just the main PCB + Control/IO PCB for main output use, but have added extra pads so that things can be connected internally. I haven't ordered prototypes yet, so I may add a few more connections.

Once I've tested that, and it's available for use as an output stage for LW boats/systems, (and yes, PCBs will be available) I'll start working on the addons. The main goal with this set of PCBs was to be able to fill a couple of CLee's boats, but there's absolutely no reason that these can't be used elsewhere. The PCBs are in 4U-style dimensions X" x 6" so 4U and 5U probably make the most sense unless you're looking at making 30-32 HP 3U modules. hihi

The main PCB is 4"x6" (so even a bit wide for 4U,) but the more I think about it the more single 1" wide channels could work, 2" bus modules, 1" LED meters, etc.
thresholdpeople
Great! 6" pcbs are perfect for my needs.

Are there many changes, other than pcb size, from your frac version of this?
J3RK
thresholdpeople wrote:
Great! 6" pcbs are perfect for my needs.

Are there many changes, other than pcb size, from your frac version of this?


Completely new actually. This one uses 4 THAT 2180 VCAs, and has voltage control over level and pan per channel (as well as manual of course). The final summing mixer is the same as the old mixer for trimming gain, and driving up to 600R loads and such, but everything before that has been updated.
J3RK
cygmu
All looking very cool.

Just a quick typo catch: the panel for the 1" Audio Mixer says "channel 2" in two places which I think is an error.

Every time I notice that this thread has been updated I get a little bit excited. Maybe I should get out more.
J3RK
cygmu wrote:
All looking very cool.

Just a quick typo catch: the panel for the 1" Audio Mixer says "channel 2" in two places which I think is an error.

Every time I notice that this thread has been updated I get a little bit excited. Maybe I should get out more.


Thank you! Fixed. I still need to update a few of the images as well, as I've fixed a few things, made things more consistent between modules, etc.

Edit: Uploaded the current set of panel drawings with fixes.
the bad producer
Looking great!

And one thing that I was going to say before but didn't, is it possible to make any PCB's not exactly inch increments in width? Or am I too late to the party! A little smaller would be cool if possible, like 4" is 101.6mm, so the PCB could be 100mm... This makes like so much easier when mounting into a rack / to a panel... I mean no worries if not, it doesn't really matter unless they're going to be parallel, and then judicious use of different length stand-offs does alleviate the problem somewhat... err, anyway I'm rambling!

thumbs up
J3RK
the bad producer wrote:
Looking great!

And one thing that I was going to say before but didn't, is it possible to make any PCB's not exactly inch increments in width? Or am I too late to the party! A little smaller would be cool if possible, like 4" is 101.6mm, so the PCB could be 100mm... This makes like so much easier when mounting into a rack / to a panel... I mean no worries if not, it doesn't really matter unless they're going to be parallel, and then judicious use of different length stand-offs does alleviate the problem somewhat... err, anyway I'm rambling!

thumbs up


hihi I finally listened to you on that. I brought the side-edges in just a tiny bit for some tolerance behind the panel on the new PCBs. (not quite 1mm, but I think it's enough to make them all play nicely) Well, I should say that I did this for PCBs that are the full width of the panel. I didn't do it on the ones that are smaller than the panel I laid them out for.

However, this was just on my prototypes. I can definitely bring them in on the board layouts for everything in this batch before making production runs of the PCBs.
thresholdpeople
Would this effect the hole location standards?
J3RK
thresholdpeople wrote:
Would this effect the hole location standards?


No, not at all. Still X.7" center to center. I start with the PCB at the full X" dimensions, place the mounting holes in the standard positions, then bring the edges in. The holes are unaffected.
thresholdpeople
Awesome.
J3RK
One more item I'm working on. It's really for a friend of mine who couldn't live without one hihi but I'm doing a Syrinx-style filter set. I'm not using CEM3350s, but rather my own OTA based filter cores. It's a low pass cascaded 4-pole, and two band pass only state variable cores. They'll have similar routing and mixing to the Syrinx or more specifically very close to the Buchla format Syrinx filter one off that shows up from time to time. I'll have some additional input mixing and output combinations as well. Anyway, I thought I'd mention that. I've got the schematic laid out for the set of cores, and am just finalizing the IO for it now. Should be fun.
the bad producer
Amazing! And amazing, would love a VCF like that!
woodster
I'm really liking all of these 4u offerings of late so look forward to adding more Stroh, especially a Syrinx Filter. Will you do panels Charlie ?
the bad producer
I think J3RK is doing panels, which is pretty cool, nice to have some variation of design!
J3RK
I'm definitely open to anyone doing panels. I'll have the default set, and will be posting the FPDs, so they can be customized, or ordered as is from FPE. However, I also realize that the ones I've made aren't going to suit everyone's tastes hihi
Reality Checkpoint
@ J3RK Will your Syrinx filter set be able to reproduce formant sounds? If, so yes please, if not then still yes please!
CLee
the bad producer wrote:
Looking great!

And one thing that I was going to say before but didn't, is it possible to make any PCB's not exactly inch increments in width? Or am I too late to the party! A little smaller would be cool if possible, like 4" is 101.6mm, so the PCB could be 100mm... This makes like so much easier when mounting into a rack / to a panel... I mean no worries if not, it doesn't really matter unless they're going to be parallel, and then judicious use of different length stand-offs does alleviate the problem somewhat... err, anyway I'm rambling!

thumbs up


I discussed this a bit with Charlie. With panel PCBs and boards parallel to the panel this is an issue with modules at the edges of the boat I'm working on. The boat is 16GA steel and has a measurable thickness. If the PCB goes right to the edge of the module then the module can't fit. It's not USUALLY a problem with right angle PCBs but could exclude certain modules from fitting first or last across the boat.

There's really no way to get around that with the design without making the boat larger than standard size. I'll post somethi pictures later.
Isaiah
The Ultra-Mirror and Operator both look like excellent alternatives to the Serge PCO.

The Operator feature set is far more interesting to me (I think I recall trying to
subtly hint that you should should make a PM VCO a few years ago, Dustin! hihi), but it lacks a triangle output which seems pretty desirable for use with the Serge Wave Multipliers.
Could the LEDs be replaced with wire jumpers (with appropriate resistor changes) and used as a point to tap the triangles?

The Ultra-Mirror replicates all the features of the PCO and then some.
Especially dig the Linear FM index VCA.

Will you be able to provide alternative component values to get the outputs to 5V P-P, and the inputs to respond fully to 0-5V or +/-2.5V as appropriate, please?
0-5V and +/-2.5V being the Serge standard, of course.

Thanks!
J3RK
Reality Checkpoint wrote:
@ J3RK Will your Syrinx filter set be able to reproduce formant sounds? If, so yes please, if not then still yes please!


The topology is identical to the actual Syrinx as far as the filters go internally. Instead of CEM3350s though I adapted my existing 4 pole low pass and state variable cores instead. The way the Syrinx works is that it uses 2 CEM3350s which each contain two state variable filters each. So they use the first IC as two bandpass (state variable) then cascade both of the second 3350's into a 4 pole. So, basically the same thing I've got only mine are broken out into OTAs and op amps.

All of the routes from the Syrinx will be possible, and then some, as I've added some extra inputs, outputs, mixing, etc. (so there will be a few more combined routes possible)

So, anything that it could do this will do, plus more. My friend wanted as close to a one to one clone as is possible, but I wanted it to do some new things as well, and make enough changes that I felt good that it actually wasn't a one to one clone. hihi

I've got all of the mixing and routing done now, so I just need to lay out a PCB. I'm using SMT (0805, SOIC, SOT23, SOD123) because he requested that it work in Euro. So there will be a smaller PCB available. I also want one that's the correct dimensions for 4U, so I can either do a 2x6 SMT, or maybe a 3x6 TH version. I'll see how it goes with the one I'm building for him, and then I'll be able to determine just how much space is needed for the 4U version.

If you google Synton Syrinx Filter (for images) you'll come across the Buchla format one that I mentioned above. The one I'm building will be very similar to this, but with a bit more IO and mixing. That one will give a good idea of the signal flow though.
J3RK
Isaiah wrote:
The Ultra-Mirror and Operator both look like excellent alternatives to the Serge PCO.

The Operator feature set is far more interesting to me (I think I recall trying to
subtly hint that you should should make a PM VCO a few years ago, Dustin! hihi), but it lacks a triangle output which seems pretty desirable for use with the Serge Wave Multipliers.
Could the LEDs be replaced with wire jumpers (with appropriate resistor changes) and used as a point to tap the triangles?

The Ultra-Mirror replicates all the features of the PCO and then some.
Especially dig the Linear FM index VCA.

Will you be able to provide alternative component values to get the outputs to 5V P-P, and the inputs to respond fully to 0-5V or +/-2.5V as appropriate, please?
0-5V and +/-2.5V being the Serge standard, of course.

Thanks!


Right now, audio signals are +/-5V. Unipolar CVs are now 0-5V (both from CV sources, and what unipolar CV inputs accept (such as VCA CV inputs.))

Everything is done using reference voltages, offsets are generated from standard op amp circuits, and there are plenty of inverting/re-inverting amplifiers for just about every input stage in all of these new designs and redesigns. This means that changing audio signal levels and bipolar CVs is a simple matter of a single resistor swap for the given input if you wanted to change the CV levels, or even audio levels in most cases.

The Operator (PM VCO) core is actual a 0-5V core. I use level shifting after that to actually generate the bipolar signals. Even those should be no problem to change to +/-2.5V levels (though they'd need a few more tweaks in some cases.)

I actually prefer 10V P2P signals because I like to be able to easily interface with 5U, 3U, etc. I'm a little less concerned trying to match Serge levels, but there's no reason that can't be done with what's available on each module. The UltraMirror would be the trickiest to shift levels on just due to all of the internal use of 10V references. So, if your goal is to integrate with Serge, this may not be the VCO to choose. Unless you want to do quite a bit of experimentation.

I am planning a Pico VCO update, and a Basic VCO update though that will make a good PCO alternative. The FlexWave would also be pretty easily adapted to Serge voltages.

As far as adding triangles on the Operator... My main goal was to do a TZPM OPL-style operator. I did add the phase modulated sawtooth out that you requested, but buffering and summing the triangles (the way the saws and sines are) would require almost another inch of PCB making it a 5x6 PCB. That's pretty huge for a single VCO, and I doubt many people want to dedicate that much space to something that really needs a pair of to reach their full potential. I may create a little 1" buffer/summing board that could be added on later, (and I can definitely add pads on the main PCB to make that easy). This PCB could also contain a comparator so PWM could be added as well. However, to start, the amount of sounds one could get out of a pair of Operators is pretty insane as it is. In fact, so much of the ground of a wave multiplier can be covered simply via the PM that I'm of the opinion that it wouldn't even be necessary to have one if these VCOs are used.

In fact, maybe a 2" buffer, mix, comparator board could be made that would supply enough of this for a pair of Operators that two of them with this "module" in the middle could make a really insane super-complex VCO setup. That would be around 10" of panel space for all of the necessary controls and IO though, so once again, I guess it depends on the size of system one wants to build around this.

One last little thought on this, is that I'm really not trying to compete or replace the many other options out there. So there's no reason a PCO couldn't be used, or one of Slightly Nasty's delightful discrete VCOs, or one of my other VCOs even. I could potentially strip down the Operator to a simpler saw-core VCO too at some point. With its 0-5V core, doing a table lookup also becomes REALLY easy with a simple ADC>FLASH>DAC setup. At this point, I've so overdone it on VCOs that I'm ready to work on some other items. hihi

I'd like to get some channel strips done for the output mixer, some filters, maybe some complex envelopes to complement the slope generators, etc.

I'm of course still open to suggestions, but where the Operator is concerned, the PCBs are so big and dense now, I think we're hitting diminishing returns by adding things.

w00t
Isaiah
J3RK
Thanks for the informative reply, Dustin.

My thinking was that I would use the Operator as a PCO alternative (with added TZ PM) in a Serge/CGS panel.
As you rightly pointed out, the complex tones available from TZ PM almost negate the need for wave multipliers.
It seems daft, and an injustice to your Operator design, to try to shoehorn a pair into a Serge system.
Thanks for reminding me of this.
The Operators are entirely deserving, both conceptually and in terms of comparability, of being the basis of a standalone voice.

After further thought, I can see you're right to have omitted the triangle outputs, even before considering the size.
The reason I suggested both static and shifted saws is that it allows something approaching Supersaw sounds, and summing both saws (one must be inverted) gives you a pulse (PM is now PWM.)
However, neither of these are essential additions.
Really, so long as there is a static saw output, and the static and shifted sine outputs available, that's all you need.
No need for the Operator to be a Jack of All Trades when it can truly be the Master of TZPM, so my apologies for possibly diluting the concept of the Operator.

How big is the Operator now? 4" x 6"? I thought it was 3" X 6" judging from the mounting holes on the panel at the start of this thread.
I plan to get a pair regardless, but if the additional shifted saw output is bumping up the PCB size, please do consider omitting it or consulting interested parties to see if they're bothered.
Sorry, that sounds like a demand or like my opinion is somehow noteworthy; I really don't mean it like that.
Just trying to undo my previous meddling if it's problematic or the pros outweigh the cons ha! hihi (EDIT: Strike that; reverse it!)

Yes, the Basic VCO would probably be the VCO to use in place of a PCO.

As always, thanks for making your designs available!
Guinness ftw!
J3RK
Actually, the extra op amps were needed to perfect the Phase CV section, and I had one left to buffer the phase shifted sawtooth, so that was easy. I just would need two more to sum them, and then six todo the full treatment on the triangles, so the triangles seemed the most easily sacrificed. I will add an extra header though for an expander. That's easy, takes no space and the board could either stack behind a new larger panel or become a small expander module.
ashleym
Terrible news.

I had just started adding 4U modules to a banana system and some expensive house stuff came up. How can I sneak this lot in to the house?

Looking forward to getting a good few of these.

Do we have some Loudest Warning panel designs coming?
CLee
CLee wrote:
the bad producer wrote:
Looking great!

And one thing that I was going to say before but didn't, is it possible to make any PCB's not exactly inch increments in width? Or am I too late to the party! A little smaller would be cool if possible, like 4" is 101.6mm, so the PCB could be 100mm... This makes like so much easier when mounting into a rack / to a panel... I mean no worries if not, it doesn't really matter unless they're going to be parallel, and then judicious use of different length stand-offs does alleviate the problem somewhat... err, anyway I'm rambling!

thumbs up


I discussed this a bit with Charlie. With panel PCBs and boards parallel to the panel this is an issue with modules at the edges of the boat I'm working on. The boat is 16GA steel and has a measurable thickness. If the PCB goes right to the edge of the module then the module can't fit. It's not USUALLY a problem with right angle PCBs but could exclude certain modules from fitting first or last across the boat.

There's really no way to get around that with the design without making the boat larger than standard size. I'll post somethi pictures later.


Here are a couple pictures. You can see the boat is about 1/16" thick (also if using rack ears you'll have that to deal with). So if the PCBs come right to the panel edge, those modules can't go first or last in the boat.


J3RK
Several of mine will work no problem on the sides. I'm trying to stick to mostly 4" wide panels regardless of the PCB behind them. So most will easily work on the edges. A few of them though are quite a bit closer to the edges. Still smaller than the panel, but not quite small enough to clear that I don't think, especially if there are ears.

I see a few ways around this. I can make a couple of alternate panels that are wider, maybe combine two PCBs of functions, and make sure there's plenty of clearance. Then people can decide how they want to lay out their boats, then pick the panels that will work there.

I can also come up with more panels, maybe utility stuff, that would fit there.

I'm sure there will be more than enough things that work there to where it just won't matter.
Reality Checkpoint
This just gets better!

Thank you very much for the detailed reply. I would prefer a TH version as my SMD chops are not good. Will definitely be ordering one when they are ready.


J3RK wrote:
Reality Checkpoint wrote:
@ J3RK Will your Syrinx filter set be able to reproduce formant sounds? If, so yes please, if not then still yes please!


The topology is identical to the actual Syrinx as far as the filters go internally. Instead of CEM3350s though I adapted my existing 4 pole low pass and state variable cores instead. The way the Syrinx works is that it uses 2 CEM3350s which each contain two state variable filters each. So they use the first IC as two bandpass (state variable) then cascade both of the second 3350's into a 4 pole. So, basically the same thing I've got only mine are broken out into OTAs and op amps.

All of the routes from the Syrinx will be possible, and then some, as I've added some extra inputs, outputs, mixing, etc. (so there will be a few more combined routes possible)

So, anything that it could do this will do, plus more. My friend wanted as close to a one to one clone as is possible, but I wanted it to do some new things as well, and make enough changes that I felt good that it actually wasn't a one to one clone. hihi

I've got all of the mixing and routing done now, so I just need to lay out a PCB. I'm using SMT (0805, SOIC, SOT23, SOD123) because he requested that it work in Euro. So there will be a smaller PCB available. I also want one that's the correct dimensions for 4U, so I can either do a 2x6 SMT, or maybe a 3x6 TH version. I'll see how it goes with the one I'm building for him, and then I'll be able to determine just how much space is needed for the 4U version.

If you google Synton Syrinx Filter (for images) you'll come across the Buchla format one that I mentioned above. The one I'm building will be very similar to this, but with a bit more IO and mixing. That one will give a good idea of the signal flow though.
J3RK
Five "hopefully final" prototype PCBs arrive tomorrow, and I just ordered the prototype board for the base VC Stereo Output Mixer. Panels for these are being made now, and I should have them next Wednesday. If the test modules all work, then the first set of modules is ready. (assuming panel wiring) I still need to order prototypes for the control/IO PCBs that I've laid out. I do have compatible parts on hand for these, so I'll be able to test them very quickly once I have the boards. I should be able to order the test versions sometime in the next week or two.

I'm putting together a little test system, so I'll be able to post some audio and video of some of these working together soon. (sometime in the next two weeks)

I just wrapped up a custom build that was taking a lot of my time, so I'll be able to put more into these soon, as well as finishing up the Syrinx-like filter PCB layout, and maybe some new items as well.

I'll post pics of the panels next week.
J3RK
Progress. Should have the PCB and Panel for the VC Output module at the beginning of next week. I need to get a few of the 1" modules made to fill in gaps. More soon!









J3RK
I'm really liking the Rogans on these, but I'm also kind of wondering what the two-color Selco collet knobs would look like as well. The Rogans I think give a nice 70s(ish) look, but the Selcos might look nice in a more modern way too. I may grab a few and try them on one of the panels that uses small and large knobs. A friend of mine uses them on similar panels for another application, and they look pretty good.

I'm also thinking it might be fun to use those aluminum-post rocker/slider switches like Waldorf uses. I've always used the NKK bat toggles, but I've always liked the feel of those others they way they kind of clunk when they reach the end of their travel. This is fun!

Anyway, I'll get the main set of these done, then start experimenting with that sort of thing. hihi

Oh, also working on some LED VU Meters right now that would be useful as addons for the VC Out mixer. I'm trying to fit enough comparators in for 20 segments, but may have to drop back to 10. That would also be a pretty big current draw when two sets are fully lit... Dead Banana
the bad producer
Really nice Dustin - I was watching a vid of yours yesterday and those LED's are something else, mesmerising! I think it was the Bit Station, but I couldn't find a write up on what that is, or am I not looking hard enough?!
flts
I have to say LW4U is probably the most aesthetically pleasing format for me so far, both mr. bad producer's and Dustin's panel designs.

If I hadn't gone for all in one self-drawn "monolithic" panel (which includes the aforementioned Bitstation and a whole bunch of other Stroh modules btw!), this would be the way to go for next DIY builds for sure.
J3RK
the bad producer wrote:
Really nice Dustin - I was watching a vid of yours yesterday and those LED's are something else, mesmerising! I think it was the Bit Station, but I couldn't find a write up on what that is, or am I not looking hard enough?!


Thanks!

The Bit Station is my version of something like the NoiseRing or Turing Machine sort of module. Linear Feedback Shift Register, R/2R DAC, VCA to scale the output, full 8 bit two color (high low bit) LED driving, differential amplifier for a serial out of the register for bipolar pitched noise, external data input, linear feedback, and white noise sampling, etc.

The LEDs are the same Lumex ones I mentioned before. They are 2 lead bipolar and driven by a pair of CD4041 ICs. This allows for low bits to be one color and high to be another rather than on/off.

I can post the current schematic for it soon.

w00t
J3RK
flts wrote:
I have to say LW4U is probably the most aesthetically pleasing format for me so far, both mr. bad producer's and Dustin's panel designs.

If I hadn't gone for all in one self-drawn "monolithic" panel (which includes the aforementioned Bitstation and a whole bunch of other Stroh modules btw!), this would be the way to go for next DIY builds for sure.


Really excited to see this synth!
J3RK
Just finished testing the final revision PCB for the Operator. It's working 100% as I'd expect, so that one is done.

I laid this one out on request. I finished up the schematic, and am laying out the PCB now. NOT, AND, OR, XOR, and two pushbuttons with both latch and momentary pulse outputs. The LEDs are bicolor like the Bit Station, so one color is bit-low and the other is bit-high. The XOR also has a bipolar-shifted audio output for pseudo-ring modulation.

cygmu
J3RK wrote:
Just finished testing the final revision PCB for the Operator. It's working 100% as I'd expect, so that one is done.


Ooh ooh exciting! What are your plans for making these things available? No hurry, no hurry...
J3RK
That is a good question! hihi I'm hoping to get them into the usual shops, but nothing solid yet. I can always buy some small stacks of these one module at a time, and do it that way. I'm hesitant to arrange full group-buy type runs though, as my shipping times with that sort of thing can be inconsistent, and I don't like to make people wait on me for things.

We can always test this out. I was thinking that maybe I'd order 20-25 of the Operator boards as I have a few projects I want to use them in. That would give me a bunch of extras. I'll put together the docs for this, package it with the FPD file I made for it, and I can provide them upon request. Or something like this anyway. I could probably place an order for them in about a week.

If anything materializes with the shops, I'll definitely put in an update here about it.

w00t
J3RK
The actual production PCBs are a bit narrower for a bit more tolerance. The test PCBs are exactly the width of the panel. Here's what it looks like though:

kingspill
Beautiful work on the Pulse Logic, Dustin.

Beautiful work on all the modules.
J3RK
Thanks!!

Next to test, VCOUT

Isaiah
Yes! I don't want to unwittingly turn this into an order thread, but I'd love a pair of Operators. Rockin' Banana!
Scolbio
So say for example Synthcube may be stocking these? hihi
J3RK
Syrinx style filter coming along...

tIB
J3RK wrote:
Just finished testing the final revision PCB for the Operator. It's working 100% as I'd expect, so that one is done.

I laid this one out on request. I finished up the schematic, and am laying out the PCB now. NOT, AND, OR, XOR, and two pushbuttons with both latch and momentary pulse outputs. The LEDs are bicolor like the Bit Station, so one color is bit-low and the other is bit-high. The XOR also has a bipolar-shifted audio output for pseudo-ring modulation.



Can i ask a potentially annoying/pedantic question on this one- what's the logic (pun!) in the buttons being up top? Id want them down below so they are within easy reach, but would have to go at them through a stack of cables. If mounted on a top row they are further away from reach. Sorry, things like this often needle me, though in most cases i ignore- i really like what you do though so I'll ask!
tIB
Meanwhile I'm happy that my LW project has yet to get off the ground- what with the stroh and slightly nasty stuff, and my own realisation that i work better in medium sized rigs i might have to make it larger than planned! Getting started would be a, um, start...
J3RK
No problem at all! I'm always open to feedback on things like this. When I lay out panels, I always do it with some vision of its placement in something I'm building or will build, and not necessarily from a universal standpoint. I make my panel files available for most things, so they can be edited by anyone that may want to build one. If I'm building for someone, I'm happy to move things around on request. In this particular instance, it would take maybe 3 minutes to swap the positions on these sections, which I'm happy to do for anyone that doesn't want to mess around with the drawing.

My thought was that this would be sitting in a mid-section row, while something with more manual controls would be lower/closer (like the new sequencer, and possibly some as-yet not designed manual interface). Thinking about it a bit more though, it would be kind of handy to have this next to the sequencer with the buttons close up.

I can post an FPD file with these items reversed as soon as I finish the filter layout. I'll have a handful of these logic PCBs for testing soon too.

Incidentally, I'm wiring the current set of PCBs into the test panel tonight, so the slope generator, VC stereo mixer, PM VCO, quad gate, etc. will be considered final as soon as I try them all together. At that point it will just be a matter of figuring out how to stock or distribute them.
J3RK
J3RK
Still cleaning up the routings a bit on that, but should be able to get the prototypes ordered today.
J3RK
J3RK
Looks like the first 1" width panel is ready for pickup today too. w00t
J3RK
The "Bottom Version" of the Pulse Logic panel. w00t

J3RK
A few sounds from the Blue Panel.

Operator + Ultra Mirror + Dual Angle + DVCA + VCOUT

Phase modulation sounds.

http://soundcloud.com/drj3rk/sets/operator-tz-phase-mod-clips

Just posting a link to the SC Playlist.
tIB
J3RK wrote:
The "Bottom Version" of the Pulse Logic panel. w00t



Perfect! Was away last week so missed your earlier reply- cheers for taking my pedantic feedback in the spirit intended! Guinness ftw!
MrNezumi
J3RK wrote:
A few sounds from the Blue Panel.

Operator + Ultra Mirror + Dual Angle + DVCA + VCOUT

Phase modulation sounds.

http://soundcloud.com/drj3rk/sets/operator-tz-phase-mod-clips

Just posting a link to the SC Playlist.


Sounds great! I'm a little confused about what I am hearing though. Is it two Operator VCOs from the blue panel or one Operator plus one Mirror/Six Demon Bag?
J3RK
Thanks!

The sounds above are a single Operator and an UltraMirror VCO. (the Six Demon Bag was kind of a one-off combining and UltraMirror with a folder/timbre circuit)

Basically, I'm feeding a wave from the Operator to one of its own phase modulation inputs, modulating the other with a sine wave from the UltraMirror, syncing the Operator to the UltraMirror, and controlling both with the same V/Oct signal from the keyboard controller.

The less tonal clip had the V/Oct connections pulled, the slopes were set to cycle, and then knobs were twiddled a bit to change things up.

There is a wide range of sounds possible with just this simple setup. Add in a filter or low pass gate, and the voice side of things is very flexible.

For the maximum amount of PM flexibility I think two Operators would be the best combination. However, for this single panel, I wanted a few extra waveforms (PWM, etc.) so I did the combination of the two different VCOs. It works quite well, and they track each other very well, but being able to cross-PM creates some tones that I haven't gotten with this combo yet.
fma
J3RK wrote:
A few sounds from the Blue Panel.

Operator + Ultra Mirror + Dual Angle + DVCA + VCOUT

Phase modulation sounds.

http://soundcloud.com/drj3rk/sets/operator-tz-phase-mod-clips

Just posting a link to the SC Playlist.


#6 is pure FM heaven on a webpage. Thank you. If you ever need local Seattle Beta Testers I am so in.
J3RK
I've built all the ones I have on hand, but am planning to order a stack of them very soon. w00t

And thanks!!
MrNezumi
J3RK wrote:

The sounds above are a single Operator and an UltraMirror VCO. (the Six Demon Bag was kind of a one-off combining and UltraMirror with a folder/timbre circuit).


Thanks for the explanation. You are doing so much new/rework stuff that it is hard to follow it all!

Is the IX module the same as the PLL part of the Dual Mirror Core? Could it be used with any VCOs or do the VCOs need specific features?

And since I am on the roll asking questions - are the VCAs in the Dual Angle for DC/CV only or can they be used for audio too?
J3RK
The IX will work with any pair of VCOs (preferably a pair of the same) for PLLs. You'll want a divider too to lock intervals, but that's optional. It's actually a different flavor of both functions, and the integrator is voltage controlled here instead of manual only.

The VCAs can be DC / AC or switched (though the current panel doesn't include switch mounting.

By default I've just been DC coupling all my VCAs as that works for all signals. Dince the Output module is AC coupled that will remove any offsets from the final audio signals.

After all the revision work and rounding out the function sets, there should be one complete set/suite that can fill most gaps. Then I might finally start working on some of the digital designs as these analog ones won't be eating away at my brain in the background. hihi
MrNezumi
Thanks for the info, Dustin. One more question: if you update the Flexwave will it be done as one big PCB or as separates (one for VCO, another for timbre/wavefolding, another for Quad Q, etc...)?
J3RK
A few possible minor tweaks aside, the FlexWave fits in with the new modules fairly well, and follows similar (self imposed) design requirements. I wouldn't mind including index VCA and uninverting the linear FM input, but overall it fits I think. It's kind of the first module of this series in many ways.

There are enough similar functions to where one could build a similar sort of thing with other boards though. (a pair of Operators, multiplier and maybe a folder for example)

I do plan to make a 2 inch triangle core VCO for cases where the size of all the other new ones might not be flexible enough for a given synth, row of a synth, etc.
J3RK
I just ordered the prototype PCBs and Panel for the Pulse Logic. (I used the button-on-bottom version for the test panel.) The Zyrinqz (Syrinx-style) filter PCBs will ship to me next week, so I'll have one of those built up for testing soon as well. (Picking up the panel for this on the way home this afternoon.)

It looks like Synthcube will be stocking the Operator soon. We'll be placing an order on Friday, so they should be stocked in the near future. The panel file will be available here for anyone that wants to order it as-is from FPE. It works great with the PCB, and is actually very easy to wire up. I've also sent the file to Synthcube, so it may eventually be stocked there as well.



w00t
J3RK
kingspill
woah
flts
Holy...

I think I may want one of these once I get the big panel built and working, if you make PCBs available smile
Jonachi
Is the modules already out at modular addict?

http://modularaddict.com/stroh-bit-station-pcb
J3RK
Those are a bit different. Those are 3U-friendly PCBs for Euro/Frac etc. No reason you couldn't use them for 4U, but the PCBs aren't the usual X" x 6" dimensions that typical 4U boards are.
J3RK
This isn't exactly LW format, but it's using many of these new PCBs, and the panel sections are actually the same layouts as the LW based ones. Thought I'd post a pic/PDF though anyway just for fun.

J3RK
Nanuk 945 Case version:

colorbars
hyper
J3RK
I placed the order for the Operator VCO today for Synthcube. They'll be ready in two weeks.

w00t
the bad producer
Great news! Is there somewhere with more info about the Operator? Schematic, I/O list, would like to do a panel - sounds great!
J3RK
I'll send it to you in just a bit. I posted early schematics in this thread I think, but there have been changes.

Edit: Sent.
the bad producer
Wow! f u smack! fap fap fap... t3h 8@nz3r@t3d Dinner at the Y



J3RK wrote:
Reality Checkpoint
the bad producer wrote:
Great news! Is there somewhere with more info about the Operator? Schematic, I/O list, would like to do a panel - sounds great!


If you do a panel let me know please!
J3RK
The test PCBs for Pulse Logic and Zyrinqz are on their way to me now. I got a panel for each made, and have them sitting ready to go, so I should be able to get some testing done very quickly on them.

The Operator PCBs should be to Synthcube in exactly two weeks as well.

I'm just wrapping up the last tweaks on the VCOUT component-value changes I'm making, so those will be ready too very soon.

Edit: Just finished up the last PCB layout of the main LW-4U set. (Bit Station 4U) Everything else is either ready to go, being tested, or test PCBs will be arriving shortly. Now it's just a matter of distribution. Synthcube is stocking the Operator shortly, and we'll discuss the rest of these as well. I believe that Modular Addict will also have them, but I'll need to confirm that. So far nothing on the other side of the water, but I'm always happy to ship internationally, and should have a small stock of each thing on hand as other orders get placed.

I'll be posting here with further test results, availability, etc.

w00t
J3RK
Board List:
Operator VCO - Fully Tested, available soon
UltraMirror VCO - Fully Tested
FlexWave VCO - Available
VCOUT - Testing near complete
Bit Station 4U - PCB complete, prototypes ordered
Pulse Logic - PCB complete prototypes shipped
Zyrinqz - PCB complete prototypes shipped
Quad Quadrant - Fully Tested
Audio Mixer - Fully Tested
CV Processor - Fully Tested
ThreeFour - PCBs ready for testing
UltraClock - PCBs ready for testing
DXOR - Fully Tested
Dual Angle + OR - Fully Tested
MultiFlop - PCBs not yet ordered
Quad Gate - Fully Tested
UltraTimbre - Fully Tested
Sample and Shift - Fully Tested and Updated
PicoVCO - Fully Tested (could use precision reference update)
MicroState Filter - Fully Tested
Spline Generator - Design nearly complete

A couple of maybes:
MultiState 2.0 - PCB laid out
FlexPole Filter - PCB laid out, partially tested, needs adjustments
Power - Fully Tested (not sure how available these will be)
J3RK
J3RK
the bad producer
STOP IT! t3h 8@nz3r@t3d


hihi
Reality Checkpoint
Crikey J3RK you are on a roll!
J3RK
w00t

I just created a variation on the Angle Generator.

It adds an inverted output, an inverted and shifted output (for bipolar LFO use).

There's an adjustable monostable inline with the retrigger circuit (for cycle mode) that allows the high state length to be adjusted when also in AR (as opposed to AD) mode. Good for trapezoidal shapes.

If I can get a low-state hold or trigger delay working with low parts count, I'll add that too, for "proper" trapezoid operation. Not sure if it will fit comfortably on the board though.

There are two sine shapers as well. One for unipolar positive and one for bipolar. So smoothed / curved modulations are possible now as well.

There are also two LED drivers now. One for unipolar shape and one for bipolar (with 2 colors).

That should add a touch more modulation flexibility. I've also added a high-low speed switch / cap combo.

This version is through hole (with the exception of the bypass capacitors and the DG418 switches which only come in SMT).
(the Dual Angle + OR Mixer version is all SMT)


The VC OUT module has been finalized now too. (it's also a bit more flexible as well)

The Timbre circuit is going to be completely reworked. More on that later...

More soon.
thresholdpeople
woah! looking forward to seeing that!

here's hoping you're able to add the trigger delay!
J3RK
I tried a few things, but the PCB is pretty tight now. I'll mess with it a bit more tonight though. In the meantime, here's the panel I have in mind (unless of course I figure out the delay...)

The three large holes toward the top are "vandal proof" metal illuminated pushbutton switches. You never know when someone might try to vandalize your buttons. hihi

Edit: I may have just figured out the delay, and it shouldn't take too much space. I'll have to rework the panel if it works.
thresholdpeople
Ha! Awesome.

Having never used a trapezoidal EG, how does it compare to a more common slope generator, or AD/AR? And if you get the trigger delay going, that means you'll be able to delay the incoming envelope by a certain amount of time, then it'll rise, hold for a certain amount of time, or is it while the gate is high -- ahh I guess that's what that AR mode button's for, and then fall?
J3RK
Exactly. In AR mode, it already holds as long as the gate is high, and can be retriggered at any time. (AD mode completes a cycle before it can be retriggered.)

The difference on this one, is that now that high/sustain/hold (whatever you like to call it here) state can be adjusted with a knob while in both AR and Cycle mode. The previous Angle Generators cycled immediately (like a repeating AD mode) due to the short trigger coming into the cycle switch. Now there is a monostable inline with that that can stretch the trigger into longer gates.

The way I think the delay will work (and I'll need to test it) is that I'll use another monostable, with an inverter that will stay low for the length of the knob setting. However, I'm not sure where to put it in the circuit, so that it happens at the right stage, and still manages to trigger the next stage of the cycle. That may be the tricky part.
J3RK
Got the Low Hold (delay) working. The PCB will be a bit bigger, but then, the panel needs some extra bits now too. The panel size will still be 4" like the one above, just a new layout. The PCB will be comparable to many of the other modules. I'll lay out the PCB as soon as I have some time.


J3RK
Filter set PCB!

the bad producer
Ooooh, is that 5"?
J3RK
the bad producer wrote:
Ooooh, is that 5"?


Actually it's 3.95". I tried something different with the mounting. It still matches the center to center mounting scheme, but I put the holes where they would be for a 2" wide PCB. It feels REALLY solid, and keeps the standoffs away from the corners. I have a few more boards that will be like this. For the bigger ones, it's a good way to allow me to subtract from the edges without changing the mounting. For example, the Spline Generator is 3.5" with this 2" based mounting setup. (1.7" center to center).

When I put the holes where I normally do, it doesn't give me much room to shrink the board back (to allow smoother mounting tolerance) without DRC errors, so I figured this would do the trick. 3" and under PCBs still have the holes at the edges if they have a 4" panel.

w00t
the bad producer
Ahh, great idea!
thresholdpeople
So I was thinking about your Spline Generator... okay total feature creep... but I'm wondering what the pots are doing to define the rise/hold/fall times - are they voltage dividers? Meaning I'd love it if there was the potential for voltage control of those parameters.

Also - since you're calling it the spline generator, does that mean the rise and fall are not linear?

Ahh wait, I just looked into it more - it appears you're referring to a key for a shaft rather than something like a Bezier curve, never heard them referred to as splines before.
J3RK
You were correct, splines as in curves. They seem to use spline as the term in graphics quite a bit. These curves aren't based on rotational points exactly. I'm just running the unipolar and bipolar outputs into two separate sine wave shapers, so the curves are based on the angles of the slopes. The effect is fairly similar though.

I'm talking with someone now about doing a real bezier curve based oscillator. It will have to be digital in order to do everything correctly. You'd be able to adjust the curves around points that can have their position arbitrarily modulated within a certain set of X/Y constraints. Possibly even X/Y/Z 3D shapes and multiple splines combined in various ways. More on that if it really starts to take shape...

Edit: (have time to elaborate a bit now)

Here are the outputs:
Unipolar 0-5V linear output.
Bipolar +/-5V linear output.
Unipolar 0 to -5V inverted output.
End Pulse
Unipolar 0-5V curved output. (the unipolar linear out above run through a sine shaper)
Bipolar +/-5V curved output. (the bipolar linear out above run through a second sine shaper)

Modes:
One Shot:
Attack Decay (trigger once, cycle completes before retrigger)
Attack Release (stays high while gate high, can be retriggered mid-cycle)
Cycle:
Attack Decay (cycling triangular/ramp wave)
Attack Release (adjustable low hold and high hold for fully adjustable trapezoidal shapes)

Between all of these you can make all kinds of odd unipolar and bipolar curved modulations, linear/angular modulations, etc. simultaneously as all have separate outputs. Combined with the CV Processor, you could add, subtract, invert, and offset all of these outputs into some pretty crazy shapes.

As far as the way the slope pots are set up, they are currently set up as resistors. So, voltage control there won't work the way they're set up now. I could probably re-scale, add an OTA or two, and put in some summing nodes, but I'm not sure how large that would get on the PCB. I'll take a look, and see what it would take to add that in though.

w00t
J3RK
J3RK
The Spline Generator PCB layout is finished. I'll order some prototypes for this, and the other remaining few as soon as possible.

The Operator PCBs arrived today, so I'll be sending them to Synthcube shortly. I also have an alternate panel layout using a 1" grid and similar to TBP's style, though I put the labels over the IO rather than under. I may make a full set like this, for those that don't like my "spacier" panel ideas. hihi (unless TBP would like to make some of course)

w00t
kingspill
So with the first 84hp almost filled up (adding a CLee Yusynth Moog Filter to that last 1" space) I was ready to move on to the second tier. It looks like I thought wrong.

Dustin, your modules are AMAZING and I can't wait till my space clears out so I can get more!
J3RK
kingspill wrote:
So with the first 84hp almost filled up (adding a CLee Yusynth Moog Filter to that last 1" space) I was ready to move on to the second tier. It looks like I thought wrong.

Dustin, your modules are AMAZING and I can't wait till my space clears out so I can get more!


Thank you!!! I love the module in the bottom row.
J3RK
paulstone
gnam gnam ,
i see many news here
thumbs up
J3RK
Renamed the thread to include other 4U stuff, as I'm still working on some 4U boat panels as well.

Here is a pair meant to be used together. (one set in silver, one set in blue)
I'll attach PDFs as well for easier reading.




J3RK
synthcube
well, we are doing our level best to keep up with j3rk, however its an uphill battle smile

at least we have a start... here's the first of this round of pcbs, with more to follow:

http://synthcube.com/cart/stroh-modular-operator-tz-vco

J3RK
Current schematic, docs and notes will be posted shortly. The build (while high in parts) is probably the most straightforward of any of my VCOs. Wiring is also very easy on this.

I should be able to post these tomorrow.

My wife just had surgery, so I haven't been working on anything for a little bit. I'll have some time to post these docs though, and hop on here to answer any questions that might pop up.

w00t
J3RK
Up to date schematic and BOM for Operator are in the first page of this thread under the Documentation post. The BOM is annotated with recommended parts.

Please let me know if you have any questions.
w00t
cygmu
Fantastic, thanks Dustin -- and best wishes to your wife and family, hope all is ok on that front.

I am really looking forward to putting some of these together. I'll order some boards in the next couple of days and add them to my troublingly long list of things to build. At the top, obviously. It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time!
clorax hurd
When/where will be the Operator panel available? (without that, the populated PCB would just sit in a box full of other populated pcbs,,, Dead Banana )
J3RK
I'm actually not sure what the status is on officially stocked panels. However, I do have two designs in LW format, and have also made a couple in other formats just as a kind of test. I'll post the LW ones here. If you haven't ordered from Front Panel Express / Schaeffer before, I'm happy to order a panel for you then ship. Front Panel Express is right near where I live/work. Here are the FPD files. One is the silver/blue one that's in all of my pics. The second one was my attempt to match Charlie's aesthetic from previous panels for my boards. He may be making some as well though, but I'm not 100% sure if those will be widely available or not.
J3RK
Here's what the alternate panel layout looks like:

sammy123
I am not sure if these panels will apply, but the FPE fathers day sale is coming up and printed panels will be 20% off.

Are you willing to post FPD files for some of the other LW panels if you have them? I may order some.
J3RK
sammy123 wrote:
I am not sure if these panels will apply, but the FPE fathers day sale is coming up and printed panels will be 20% off.

Are you willing to post FPD files for some of the other LW panels if you have them? I may order some.


Which ones did you have in mind? I can put them up. One thing to note is the the Operator is the only one that currently has a PCB for sale. Many of the PCBs are ready to go, and are just waiting until Synthcube is ready. Others are getting some fine tuning, and may need one more prototype before they're ready.
sammy123
Ohh tough decision considering they are all beautiful.
sammy123
I think the following designs jump out at me. But I could go back and forth forever when it comes to planning a new setup. There is so much good stuff here.

Dual Angle
VC Output
Six Demon Bag
Bit Station
Pulse Logic (bottom version)
Zyrinqz Set
CP
SPLINE Generator
Three Four
OlivierWah
Very nice modules and more audio demos plz (Zyrinqz Set and Six Demon Bag intrigues me so much grin)
mick
Awesome work, J3RK!
J3RK
Thanks!

I should be able to get back to all of this very soon. First new one up for tests and demos will be the Zyrinqz filter set. The board is built and it's partially wired. Just have wrap up the wiring.

w00t
cygmu
J3RK, a little component question if I may...

I've just started looking seriously at the Operator BOM because my PCB arrived yesterday. You recommend LF351 for U14 and U17 with a note that says it really matters for U14, but 351s are not readily obtainable anymore. Is a TL071 a good enough substitute there, or is there another op amp that you think would perform better?

Your note says that it's the "decent output current" you are looking for here. That's pretty hard to find on some datasheets so I am a bit lost...
flts
cygmu wrote:
J3RK, a little component question if I may...

I've just started looking seriously at the Operator BOM because my PCB arrived yesterday. You recommend LF351 for U14 and U17 with a note that says it really matters for U14, but 351s are not readily obtainable anymore. Is a TL071 a good enough substitute there, or is there another op amp that you think would perform better?

Your note says that it's the "decent output current" you are looking for here. That's pretty hard to find on some datasheets so I am a bit lost...


Is it a SMT layout? Because LF351 is definitely still available as SOIC: http://www.mouser.fi/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=lf351

Edit: oh, there's a board image few posts up, looks through hole to me... The TH version does look like it's discontinued.
duff
cygmu wrote:
J3RK, a little component question if I may...

I've just started looking seriously at the Operator BOM because my PCB arrived yesterday. You recommend LF351 for U14 and U17 with a note that says it really matters for U14, but 351s are not readily obtainable anymore. Is a TL071 a good enough substitute there, or is there another op amp that you think would perform better?

Your note says that it's the "decent output current" you are looking for here. That's pretty hard to find on some datasheets so I am a bit lost...


BitsBox have SMD LF351s and SOIC to DIP adapters for them if that helps.
cygmu
Yes, it's through hole. I had considered going SOIC to DIP with an adapter but if I can avoid a Frankenstein board I'd like to do so! LF351 shouldn't be super special...
J3RK
I picked the LF3xx series for most of my voltage reference buffers because they can supply a decent amount of current. There are other more extreme op amps that are actually designed for this sort of thing. It's a quad op amp (so I'm not sure what the single or dual models are off the top of my head,) but the TLE 2064 is one of them.

It may not actually be 100% necessary on the Operator. I actually started speccing higher output drive because of another circuit that needed it, and just started doing it on all of my circuits to be on the safe side.

You can try a TL071. Maybe socket it. Then power up the board, and just see if it gets a bit warm. It's really only supplying the reference voltage to a few spots on the board, so it should work ok.

The LF351/353/347 are still easily obtainable here, so I didn't think about not being able to find them. They were kind of National's version of TI's TL0xx, but TI still sells them last I checked. They are very similar in a lot of ways, but there are a few reasons I picked them over the the TL0xx in some cases.

You sometimes need to look at the DC performance graphs in the datasheets, as they don't always list the output current limits.

Anyway, the Operator doesn't need nearly as much current from the voltage reference as the other circuits I mentioned, so it's probably not necessary here. I'd give a TL071 or TL081 a try.
cygmu
Thanks Dustin.

J3RK wrote:

The LF351/353/347 are still easily obtainable here.


LF353 and LF347 are no problem, but the LF351 in through-hole is marked as obsolete now and out of stock at all the major distributors I am aware of. I guess the others probably have their days numbered too but who really knows?

The dual and single versions of the TLE2064 seem to be TLE2062 and TLE2061. Thanks for that pointer -- I will bear them in mind and use a 2061 if a TL071 is no good in this role. Staring at the schematic I can't see a reason why very much current is needed from either of the single op-amps but thought I'd better ask!
J3RK
A little background on that choice. hihi

When coming up with the Angle Generator slope circuit I was seeing some non-linearity at the peaks of the slopes. (when I was going for 0-10V slopes)

The faster I allowed them to cycle (in cycle mode) the worse it got, and the op amp in the integrator would get hot, and in some cases blow up.

I tried a few different tricks, like adding a little push-pull transistor config in the feedback path to take some of the load off the op amp, etc. Then I tried the TLE series (thanks for the model numbers btw, I was going to look them up). The push pull worked, but that would occasionally heat up beyond what I was confortable with too.

Anyway, I removed the transistors, and looked for something in between (as far as current output goes) and the LF347 did the trick there. Ran fairly cool, and supplied enough current to generate a 0-10V linear slope at fast cycles rates. It requires quite a bit of current to make a unipolar 10V linear slope using an inverting op amp integrator.

I actually lowered my control voltage ranges to 0-5V on the new set of modules anyway, which lowers these requirements naturally, but it can always be boosted back up by adding gain afterward if a wider range is needed.

After seeing the good performance of the LF347 for this sort of thing, I just kind of adopted the series for buffering my voltage references as well because in some cases I am using them fairly widely across a given board. Not as much on the Operator though.

Good to know about the LF351 to. Too bad really, but I'm sure other things will do the trick. I ordered a fairly large batch, but it was several months ago. There's always the SMT version though too I suppose.
cygmu
Would anybody (preferably in the UK) be interested in an Operator panel?

Julian (thebeast.co.uk) has quoted me £35 for one panel, falling to £27.50 each if we order 5, and £25 each if we order 10.

The panels will be engraved rather than just printed, and made in 2mm aluminium.

I probably want 2 for myself. I'm prepared to coordinate a mini group buy for some of these panels from Julian, primarily for UK people for ease of posting. (If you're somewhere else it is probably more sensible to order direct from Schaeffer or FPD.)

J3RK and Julian have both given the go-ahead to do this.

Let me know if you're interested and if at least 3 more panels are wanted, we'll start to work out the details.

If somebody thinks this needs its own thread for visibility, say so!

Reality Checkpoint
cygmu wrote:
Thanks Dustin.

J3RK wrote:

The LF351/353/347 are still easily obtainable here.


LF353 and LF347 are no problem, but the LF351 in through-hole is marked as obsolete now and out of stock at all the major distributors I am aware of.


Cricklewood Electronics have some LF351N:

https://www.cricklewoodelectronics.com/LF351N.html
clorax hurd
J3RK wrote:
I'll post the LW ones here. If you haven't ordered from Front Panel Express / Schaeffer before, I'm happy to order a panel for you then ship.


Thanks, but don't you perhaps have the designs in some other, more universal format? DXF/CDR/AI or something like that. I have access to laser engraver and could make them myself easily and cheaply.
synthcube
its relatively easy in the FPE application to convert the format to dxf, that way you can confirm the design plus also make any edits you want before exporting
J3RK
Agreed. Exporting should be a fairly simple matter.

I personally just prefer FPD because it's easy to work with and FPE is local to me, so I can actually just drive over and pick things up. They also do excellent work. I've never been inclined to try anyone else, at least for my own purposes. I also don't currently run any other CAD software for this sort of thing. If you prefer not to install FPD, I can export to another format and post that here. I would highly suggest checking everything out though afterward. I don't currently have a way to verify the exported files.
J3RK
On another note, things are normalizing time-wise for me, so I should be back to working on some projects soon. I've got a couple of prototypes to order and test, and then this full line of boards should be ready and waiting to be run. I'll post more news very soon. The next item on my list is to finally test the Zyrinqz filter set. The PCB is already built, I just need to wire it up.

w00t
J3RK
The Zyrinqz filter set test module is complete, and I think it's working quite well. I'm attaching a test clip. Just a bunch of envelopes automating some of the sweeps, and me turning knobs. Also a little FM from another VCO.

w00t

cygmu
Yay!!! -- and err, weird, I was just looking at this thread today and wondering about the syrinx filter module specifically.
the bad producer
nanners
J3RK
This is fun!

Pretty happy with this thing. Since all three can oscillate (and calmly since I limited the loops) pinging one or two while FMing from the third does some really nice percussion in a single module.

It's all OTAs, so easy and cheap to source. (No CEM3350s)

w00t
flts
DO WANT hyper
Jarno
+1, it is a little bit gigantic though grin
paulstone
woah
J3RK
Jarno wrote:
+1, it is a little bit gigantic though grin


The PCB is "only" 4"x6" so the panel can be MUCH smaller. I just decided that space was no object for a triple filter. lol It actually made the build and wiring very leisurely. (reminded me of building in 5U)

Not all of those controls are 100% necessary either. One could omit the input mixer for example, or hard wire some of the routings or use switches instead of patch points.
J3RK
I'm planning a few more demos with a bit more subtle modulation too. I got a bit carried away trying to make sure that every modulation point was used heavily. screaming goo yo

There are definitely more subtle things it can do, some nice formant(ish) sweet spots, etc.

That demo above was parallel routing using the input mixer. These can also be patched in series using each filter's individual IO. The LP filter can also be detached from the output mixer via a switch, so just the two bandpass filters can be used alone.
J3RK
Also, I can't say enough nice things about Craig's LW boats. It took a matter of minutes to get it set up, wired for external power, and filled with modules.

w00t

Charlie's look great too, and probably a bit lighter, but I haven't had the pleasure of using them yet.
J3RK
cygmu wrote:
Yay!!! -- and err, weird, I was just looking at this thread today and wondering about the syrinx filter module specifically.


A phenomenon known as "Synth Telepathy" no doubt. w00t
J3RK
I just want to test this a little bit more, maybe whip up a few other demos with some different types of things going on, and then I could get a small run of these made if anyone wants one. I'll also see if I can pull in the edges of the PCB very slightly, in case someone wants to make a 4" panel. I can even lay out an FPD at some point if that's helpful.
synthcube
J3RK wrote:
Also, I can't say enough nice things about Craig's LW boats. It took a matter of minutes to get it set up, wired for external power, and filled with modules.

w00t

Charlie's look great too, and probably a bit lighter, but I haven't had the pleasure of using them yet.


Rockin' Banana! Rockin' Banana! Rockin' Banana!
flts
J3RK wrote:
I just want to test this a little bit more, maybe whip up a few other demos with some different types of things going on, and then I could get a small run of these made if anyone wants one.


Definitely sign me up for one PCB at least! Was actually waiting for this one with great anticipation, even though even the previous project isn't up and running yet...
CLee
Thanks for the comments on the boats Dustin!

Those panels are a beauty. It's nice to see someone use space creatively instead of trying to maximize density. Lovely.
Paradigm X
wow

not checked on yoru stuff in a while. looks amazing ! did you happen to do a 5u panel layout for the zyrinx?

btw, my wife has just started teaching the strohviol, you ever heard of them? w00t mad things



cheers hope your well all the best
J3RK
Thanks!

I've actually never heard of that, but it looks cool!

I haven't laid out a 5U panel yet, but could definitely do that.

w00t
cygmu
flts wrote:
J3RK wrote:
I just want to test this a little bit more, maybe whip up a few other demos with some different types of things going on, and then I could get a small run of these made if anyone wants one.


Definitely sign me up for one PCB at least! Was actually waiting for this one with great anticipation, even though even the previous project isn't up and running yet...


What's the previous project?
the bad producer
cygmu, check out the Stroh unit on FB in the 4U Modular Collective It's peanut butter jelly time!
ashleym
It's pointless even pretending that I have to think about wanting one. Bananaggedon It's peanut butter jelly time!
cygmu
the bad producer wrote:
cygmu, check out the Stroh unit on FB in the 4U Modular Collective It's peanut butter jelly time!


Oh, that one! That looks amazing!
flts
cygmu wrote:
the bad producer wrote:
cygmu, check out the Stroh unit on FB in the 4U Modular Collective It's peanut butter jelly time!


Oh, that one! That looks amazing!


Yeah, that one... About once per two years I end up starting a project a bit too much for my patience, that one's definitely one of those hihi At a normal pace it would've been finished last spring already, but due to life getting in the way I'm still just starting with the wiring and calibration. very frustrating

(Sorry for bringing it up, I really talk about the project more than I actually have the time to work on it...)
megaohm
CLee wrote:

Those panels are a beauty. It's nice to see someone use space creatively instead of trying to maximize density. Lovely.


thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up
J3RK
Thanks for the panel comments!


So, this isn't exactly LW format, but it's related and new, so I thought I'd post it here. I needed one of these for a project I was working on. It's an updated Flop Sequencer. It uses a precision reference for the CV range. It has a reset input, that can either be pulsed, externally, or connected to one of the gate outputs to change the pattern length. It resets to the origin of the direction of the sequence. So if you're in Up mode, it resets to step 1. If you're in Down mode, it resets to step 8. If in Pendulum, it resets to the most recent end point.

I also used Schmitt Trigger inverters after the NPN input comparators in order to get the logic nice and square. This should allow it to be clocked even faster than it could be previously. Before it was low-mid audio range, but I think it will go a bit higher now.

There is a combined gate output, and each individual gate output is switchable before the combiner. So steps from the main gate output can be disabled like this.

There is also a much simpler internal clock now, that also has its own output for routing to other modules.

I reduced the range from 0-10V to 0-5V (by default) as it makes the knobs a bit more precise. However, the only change needed to put it back is to use a 10V LM4040 instead of a 5V one.

It uses the standard mounting spacing for a 4"x6" board, so still matches all the other boards I make, but I extended it out a little bit past those holes, so it's a bit bigger at 4.5"x7" overall, and offset one direction. The idea being that it's probably going into a Hammond box or something anyway. It will still fit behind a LW panel, but it would be a pretty wide one.



w00t
hox3d
Hey people.

So. I've been reading stuff about LW and 4U stuff.
And since the format feels less 'cramped' than Eurorack IMO, I guess that's the way I'll go.

Anyway. I'm currently designing a first module adapted from a concept I've written down but never did. I can't tell you more right now because, well, that would be stupid for me to unveil anything since it's in an early phase. And I don't want to promise anything.
But I keep working on it.

The question I wanted to ask is: does it make sense to use a kind of left => right workflow (inputs left, outputs right) sometimes seen in Eurorack? I also thought that trying to place all knobs preferably in the center of the module and I/Os around would be better (to avoid getting cables everywhere). Or maybe all bananas at the bottom?
Well, the real question is: is there a "best" way to place I/Os and controls? Does one make more sense than others? What's your feeling about it?
ashleym
You can have left to right signal flow. You also see up and down. Because the format colour codes banana sockets for ins and outs there’s some flexibility.

The main thing you need to get your head around is the functional density of modules. With modules serving more than one purpose, an out can be workflowly (new word alert) be before an in. Look at the various DSUG panels and you’ll see this. Once you patch the module to act as an oscillator this layout makes sense.

There are plenty of simple modules that are more Euro in layout. Avoid too much of that and get some more uses out of your mystery thing. The original paper face modules have signal flow built into the panel label. The later modules have more direct written labels. The genius that is LW does some great mixes

https://www.modulargrid.net/s/loudest-warning-dusg-
drew
Quote:
is there a "best" way to place I/Os and controls?


I’d always go with outputs at the top and controls at the bottom.
But this might be the kind of question that everyone has a different answer for.
J3RK
drew wrote:
Quote:
is there a "best" way to place I/Os and controls?


I’d always go with outputs at the top and controls at the bottom.
But this might be the kind of question that everyone has a different answer for.


This is how I do most of mine. However, if it's a module that will be sitting in front of the user (or between the user and the main synth) I'll reverse that, so the jacks aren't in the way of the interface.
hox3d
ashleym wrote:

There are plenty of simple modules that are more Euro in layout. Avoid too much of that and get some more uses out of your mystery thing.


Yup, that's what I thought too. I tend to dislike too simple modules, since it's more difficult to be creative with. Even if they do their stuff quite well, it's not that hard to slap additional features with a little bit more controls.

Since modular users tend to stack vertically, I always thought that top/bottom paradigm would tend to become a problem with wiring.

I tried to take a look at r*s stuff as a reference (clean interface and layout) and I couldn't find a proper rule.

IMO, I would go for a central "island" of controls and I/Os on all side. So maybe the module would stay "clean".
J3RK
Depending on how big the intended system was, it would be really cool to have one set of modules with the jacks on the top, and an equal set with them on the bottom. Then the jack fields could meet in the middle with the controls above and below them. Then one could use short cables, and all patching would be done in the center. I've thought about doing that with a two-panel / two-boat type of system before.
the bad producer
I've thought about that too... Then I put it into practice by accident when I was putting a rack together - Serge is generally outputs at the top and controls at the bottom, and the ones I've done that are not Serge (for your stuff, Dustin, for eg) are vice-versa, so I did that and it works very well!

@hox3D you can check out the 'Serge' bit of modulargrid and get some inspiration from all the 4U stuff, there's STS Serge, R*S and lots of other stuff too... Dustin are yours up there? Continually trying not to copy a few hyper

Here for example (to get back 'on topic' as this thread is really to discuss Dustin's 4U projects hihi ) is a rough layout for the Operator, with a bit of a mix, but still follows the 'outputs at the top, inputs at the bottom' Sergey thing...


J3RK
That looks great!

Also, I hope more than just my 4U stuff is discussed here. There are some great contributors here, and it's kind of cool to have a central place to talk about them.

w00t
the bad producer
thumbs up
drew
Stroh panels look great when they're "the right way up". Even more like spaceship controls.
Mine will look like this when they finally get finished
J3RK
Nice! Now I have to think about doing a skiff/desktop oriented row like that, with a second row above containing knob-on-top style. screaming goo yo
the bad producer
That looks great!
J3RK
By the way, if anyone wants any of my FPD files as-is or modified in some way please ask! I occasionally have blocks of time while I'm working where my third monitor magically turns into panel-design-zone. Mr. Green

It's actually bordering on therapeutic for me to lay out and tweak panel designs.

w00t
hox3d
Don't you loose a little bit of the modularity that way?
Because that would make not all the modules swappable, i.e those belonging to the above row wouldn't really fit on the lower row.

Or you need to make 2 panel versions for each module razz
Paradigm X
J3RK wrote:
Thanks!

I've actually never heard of that, but it looks cool!

I haven't laid out a 5U panel yet, but could definitely do that.

w00t


Thanks! Sorry to gum up your thread with an extra U. Last one! hihi but ill def be up for one of those if you get a chance to design a panel. jerk panels are love
J3RK
Paradigm X wrote:
J3RK wrote:
Thanks!

I've actually never heard of that, but it looks cool!

I haven't laid out a 5U panel yet, but could definitely do that.

w00t


Thanks! Sorry to gum up your thread with an extra U. Last one! hihi but ill def be up for one of those if you get a chance to design a panel. jerk panels are love


Gum away! 4U and 5U are both a lot of fun to work in for me. I can probably come up with something next week for this actually. Just finishing up a couple of PCB layouts, and another panel right now. I'll post it when it's done.
J3RK
hox3d wrote:
Don't you loose a little bit of the modularity that way?
Because that would make not all the modules swappable, i.e those belonging to the above row wouldn't really fit on the lower row.

Or you need to make 2 panel versions for each module razz


Making two styles is actually less of a task than one might think. Once the control and IO elements are on the panel, it's pretty easy to move them to the other side. Maybe not the most efficient way of doing things, but definitely possible.

That said, I'd give up a bit of modularity to give this a whirl. I'd just take a bit more care in the designs from the start, so that the layout made sense.
Laughing
A question: I'll be building my Operator into a 5U format. Should I worry about grounding from the input and output jacks at all?

Another question: On the three pin connections on the board for the pots, which should be connected to the counter clockwise lead of the pot?

Quite eager to get mine running in at least a prototype fashion at this point!
J3RK
I would just run copper to all the grounds, and run a single ground to the board. I usually just use one piece of solid core per row, the one piece yo connect the rows.
Laughing
Thanks, J3RK!

...Huh, that's weird to say

What about the orientation of the pots? I'm hoping to save myself from having to pull pins out of housings and switching them around.

Here I am so far! No fancy OPA parts, unfortunately... gotta be cheap as a student. I can't use keyed SIP connectors because that would cover up the (very informative!) silkscreen graphics. I kinda want to make an all surface mount board in the future. I'd be down to do the work for it, it feels much faster than through hole. No holding parts, no bending leads, no clipping leads... though I would still go for through hole IC's, socketed, too. Can't wait to hear it!

Prunesquallor
These modules look amazing! SlayerBadger! I'd love to hear some good musical demos of the Operator and Six Demon Bag (and the Flexwave, while we're at it), and more info on the applications for the Pulse Logic and 1" utilities. And if you could get them up on Modular Grid, that would be fantastic.
flts
Prunesquallor wrote:
I'd love to hear some good musical demos of the Operator and Six Demon Bag (and the Flexwave, while we're at it)


I should have a Flexwave built sometime during the next couple of weeks, I'll try to record a demo or two after that.
Prunesquallor
flts wrote:
Prunesquallor wrote:
I'd love to hear some good musical demos of the Operator and Six Demon Bag (and the Flexwave, while we're at it)


I should have a Flexwave built sometime during the next couple of weeks, I'll try to record a demo or two after that.


Thanks! cool
J3RK
There are a few demos up on my Soundcloud with some of these.

http://soundcloud.com/drj3rk


@Laughing: For pot orientation, look for the ground-plane connected pad for the CCW side of the pot for many. Some though will be a -V or -VRef instead. I can post a labeled image when I get home from work tonight.
Prunesquallor
[quote="J3RK"]There are a few demos up on my Soundcloud with some of these.

thumbs up Thanks! There are some nice tonal examples of the Operator there. I look forward to hearing more from your other stuff.
Laughing
J3RK wrote:

@Laughing: For pot orientation, look for the ground-plane connected pad for the CCW side of the pot for many. Some though will be a -V or -VRef instead. I can post a labeled image when I get home from work tonight.


Alright! now I've got everything I need to move forward with (at the very least) a panel-less prototype for 5U.
J3RK
Laughing wrote:
J3RK wrote:

@Laughing: For pot orientation, look for the ground-plane connected pad for the CCW side of the pot for many. Some though will be a -V or -VRef instead. I can post a labeled image when I get home from work tonight.


Alright! now I've got everything I need to move forward with (at the very least) a panel-less prototype for 5U.


Excellent, and sorry for the delay on a diagram. My kids are out of school for the week, so things have been a bit slow on the synth side of things.
KoryB
J3RK wrote:
The Zyrinqz filter set test module is complete, and I think it's working quite well. I'm attaching a test clip. Just a bunch of envelopes automating some of the sweeps, and me turning knobs. Also a little FM from another VCO.

w00t



That faceplate is gorgeous!
Laughing
Alright! Got some lovely sounds out of it today, but my bench is a COMPLETE mess, and fenagling all the wires from the jacks and pots going everywhere was quite the pain. Couldn't really do any calibration just cause I always had to hold something to stop the board from falling off the table, but is there a calibration guide, J3RK? I bet I just missed it in the first couple posts.

Bottom line: Yes, those jacks need to all be grounded for this module to work with 1/4" jacks (or 1/8", for that matter), but that shouldn't be too bad with un-insulated jacks. Now I just gotta go design a 5U panel to go with it, but as for actually getting that panel... might be a while. I'm thinking I can fit it in 2U, but that's because I use reeeeaally tiny pots with 1/8" shafts all the time. 11 jacks, 5 pots, 2 LED's, I'll see what I can do.
J3RK
There's not too much to calibrating this really. I'll go over it briefly here, but I'm happy to answer questions.

The first thing to check is the saw trim. This calibrates the DC symmetry of the bipolar sawtooth which all of the downstream waveshaping relies on. Just make sure you have a 10V P2P sawtooth centered around DC 0V.

Next up is getting the phase circuit calibrated. Turn the phase knob all the way clockwise. Use the "Balance" trim to make sure the phased saw is centered around DC 0V.

Then use the Shape trim if the phased sawtooth isn't looking quite right.

Now trim up the sine waves. SineT1 and SineT2 for the non-phased sine. SineT3 and SineT4 for the phased sine.

When you're working on the phased sine, there are a few things to pay attention to. With the knob fully clock-wise still, make sure the sine looks like a sine. If it looks a bit off, or has a square chunk on one side, you can tweak the Shape trim a little bit. You'll want to tweak this until that goes away, and you'll notice a very small artifact that moves around with the Shape trim. Try to center that at the top of the sine wave, as that will minimize any extra harmonics. Now if you sweep the phase control, you should see a clean sine all the way through the sweep.

If you want to check this out further, use the non-phased sine output to trigger the scope, then use the other channel to watch the phased sine. you can either sweep with the knob, or use a slow sawtooth to sweep it, (use the non-attenuated phase CV input) and you should see it moving through zero.

Volt per Octave trimming is very easy. I just do it very simply and by ear. I set my controller keyboard or a sequencer to play octaves in sequence. I trim the V/Oct trim until the lower ones sound good (or all if I'm lucky) then tweak the High Frequency (HF) trim until the top ones line up as well. You may need to bounce between these two trims a little bit to get everything just right.

That's about it.

Also, I've discovered that I didn't cover everything when trying to make this work perfectly on both 15V and 12V. I've since revised the design to use more reference voltages, but I haven't done a PCB for this version.

For 12V operation to get the sine waves right, the triangle shapers need the following modifications.

R43 and R49 should be 226K.
R42 and R48 should be 158K.

You can also decrease R60 and R65 a little bit to increase sine wave amplitude if needed. (maybe to 82K or even 68K)
cygmu
J3RK wrote:

Also, I've discovered that I didn't cover everything when trying to make this work perfectly on both 15V and 12V. I've since revised the design to use more reference voltages, but I haven't done a PCB for this version.

For 12V operation to get the sine waves right, the triangle shapers need the following modifications.

R43 and R49 should be 226K.
R42 and R48 should be 158K.


Argh, I wanted to build this very soon and don't have anything like those values around.

It looks like you are using those resistors to generate a 5V bias with 100k impedance. If so, could I instead tap the 5V reference and connect it through a 100k resistor at those points?
J3RK
cygmu wrote:
J3RK wrote:

Also, I've discovered that I didn't cover everything when trying to make this work perfectly on both 15V and 12V. I've since revised the design to use more reference voltages, but I haven't done a PCB for this version.

For 12V operation to get the sine waves right, the triangle shapers need the following modifications.

R43 and R49 should be 226K.
R42 and R48 should be 158K.


Argh, I wanted to build this very soon and don't have anything like those values around.

It looks like you are using those resistors to generate a 5V bias with 100k impedance. If so, could I instead tap the 5V reference and connect it through a 100k resistor at those points?


My updated version actually does use a 5V reference. I can't remember what the resistor values were, but I can look that up later. They're more typical values. I just picked these ones because they're "plug and play" if slightly odd values. (they're 1% values, but obviously not as common)

When I was done with the Operator PCB I thought I had thought of everything. I didn't think about the triangle conversion relying on the rails though. d'oh!
flts
(edit: ignore)
doubtfulsalmon
just starting a 4u (mostly serge) setup, but the lack of availability pcbs for the oscs has made me look around - very glad i did, the Operator sounds incredible! I'm wondering how low/slow it can go? notice it doesnt have a range switch like the other vcos, so guessing it doesnt reach lfo speeds?
flts
Bear in mind that you can use pretty any much oscillator PCB that runs on the kinds of voltages you are planning to use with, regardless of format. As long as you can somehow conveniently mount the PCB to the panel and the PCB fits in your case / behind the panel, you can design your own panel and wire the banana jacks etc. with flying wires.

(The Operator looks awesome though, and the Flexwave IS awesome!)
J3RK
doubtfulsalmon wrote:
just starting a 4u (mostly serge) setup, but the lack of availability pcbs for the oscs has made me look around - very glad i did, the Operator sounds incredible! I'm wondering how low/slow it can go? notice it doesnt have a range switch like the other vcos, so guessing it doesnt reach lfo speeds?


You can add a switch, (SPST or SPDT) and a larger value (100nF would be a good place to start) capacitor over the existing one. If you look at one of my other schematics, you can see how this is done as most of my other VCOs have this.

I didn't put it on the board with the Operator as I wasn't going for a long feature list with this VCO. More a particular sound and function.

IMO, the Operators are more suited to be sound sources, and you'd still probably want a wider-range "work-horse" type VCO in the same system for other waveforms, LFO duty, etc.

I have some other VCO designs more suited to this supporting role, but I haven't made a lot of them available yet. The UltraFade would make a good one, maybe the Pico, etc. (as far as currently available ones) I also have others that I have PCBs for, but just haven't done larger production runs if you're looking for something else. However, there are some other options out there as well by other people.

Let me know if you decide to go with Operators, and I'd be happy to make some recommendations.
ashleym
doubtfulsalmon wrote:
just starting a 4u (mostly serge) setup, but the lack of availability pcbs for the oscs has made me look around -


The VCOs from SLightlynasty will be available at some stage too.

Slightly nasty
J3RK
ashleym wrote:
doubtfulsalmon wrote:
just starting a 4u (mostly serge) setup, but the lack of availability pcbs for the oscs has made me look around -


The VCOs from SLightlynasty will be available at some stage too.

Slightly nasty


I love the way those sound. Those are kind of what I had in mind when I mentioned other VCOs. Those and the 4U Orgone Accumulator. There are more too.

w00t
doubtfulsalmon
J3RK wrote:
doubtfulsalmon wrote:
just starting a 4u (mostly serge) setup, but the lack of availability pcbs for the oscs has made me look around - very glad i did, the Operator sounds incredible! I'm wondering how low/slow it can go? notice it doesnt have a range switch like the other vcos, so guessing it doesnt reach lfo speeds?


You can add a switch, (SPST or SPDT) and a larger value (100nF would be a good place to start) capacitor over the existing one. If you look at one of my other schematics, you can see how this is done as most of my other VCOs have this.

I didn't put it on the board with the Operator as I wasn't going for a long feature list with this VCO. More a particular sound and function.

IMO, the Operators are more suited to be sound sources, and you'd still probably want a wider-range "work-horse" type VCO in the same system for other waveforms, LFO duty, etc.

I have some other VCO designs more suited to this supporting role, but I haven't made a lot of them available yet. The UltraFade would make a good one, maybe the Pico, etc. (as far as currently available ones) I also have others that I have PCBs for, but just haven't done larger production runs if you're looking for something else. However, there are some other options out there as well by other people.

Let me know if you decide to go with Operators, and I'd be happy to make some recommendations.


Cheers for all the info! From comparison with you pico vco schematic, looks like c3 on the Operator is what I'd be looking to have the switch around? Definitely understand the design philosophy of the Operator as a specific sound, I've just been very taken with the idea of extending more interesting modulation to LFOs, and having a pair of identical oscs in a system.

ashleym looks like the 1011 is very nearly available, will have a bit more of a look and listen.

With what you're saying flts, alongside the others, I'm tempted to put an Operator and Ian fritz teezer behind the same panel for a TZ PM/FM combo, maybe a bit too much going on + I'd need to find a teezer pcb.
J3RK
doubtfulsalmon wrote:
With what you're saying flts, alongside the others, I'm tempted to put an Operator and Ian fritz teezer behind the same panel for a TZ PM/FM combo, maybe a bit too much going on + I'd need to find a teezer pcb.


Actually, I think that would be a really fun combo. One that does actual TZ FM, and one that does TZ PM. Actually that combo with one additional (possibly small/simple) modulation VCO, a couple of slopes or envelopes, and a set of VCAs would be FM insanity. w00t
hox3d
Hey there!

Since that's a 4U topic as well, I thought I would share what I'm up to.
I'm still working on it (schematics not complete yet) but since this is something I feel I can achieve, maybe it's worth posting.

I changed from "Eurorack is okay but small" to "I really hate that cramped interface".
Which is stupid because I already got everything needed to develop for eurorack. Really stupid. But anyway.

I decided I would build a system myself based on great open-source projects for a start, with other things (such as Serge etc).
It would allow me to know how to develop sandwiched panels, make PCB from scratch, make the common stupid mistakes, source components, make more mistakes, etc.

For a first thing, I thought I would adapt the Befaco Crush Delay into 4U format.
I want to do it clean, easy to solder and since I hate wiring (hello, Theremax), no wiring at all.
It's a really nice sounding delay, I wanted to start by an effect module and something not too difficult. For this project, the number of parts seems fair.

So:



I made some design choices here:
- Use the mod "less crushy, more delay" told at this page.
- Move away the CV-controlled amount sent to the delay.
- Use attenuators on all inputs (CVs and Audio).

The name is a stupid play on words in French.

What do you think about it?
Just wanted to have your input!

Cheers

P.
J3RK
I like that layout!
batchas
hox3d wrote:
The name is a stupid play on words in French.

?
the bad producer
Looks great hox3d!

I think the Operator looks great too (but I'm biased!)... More importantly it sounds great, thanks Dustin, amazing VCO - now I need another!

J3RK
Nice!! That looks great! I'm glad you like it!

So, I know I haven't even gotten the last round of PCBs out there yet, (though the Zyrinqz filter set is officially next I think), but with all the talk and demos of the new Prophet X, it got me looking at the SSI2144 filter ICs. I think I'd like to make a stereo filter module based on a pair of these. I think it could be nice with the Stereo Output module. It could also be used as two individual filters, or in series for that matter, but it would be an easy build (other than having to solder an SSOP) and very low parts count. Maybe I could set up a dual VCA with a 2164 to follow the filters even.

Sounds like a fun project anyway. w00t
ashleym
Good idea for the dual/stereo filters. Definitely some sort of parallel working, 2 gnarly peaks would be great. Perhaps that could be an alternative? 2 filters under the hood with a cut off frequency offset and mix control? Switchable compensation for the resonance passband attenuation? All this will help it not be a simple build. Perhaps I need to attempt it.......

Edit. Sorry this starts to look like the zyrink filter. Now I understand your quest for simplicity
hox3d
Maybe being able to use it as a stereo effect as well?
Some kind of "stereo spread"/panning function?
With two peaks, phasers are possible (if I'm not mistaken).

That would mean have interesting mixing possibilities with on-board modulation sources (LFO etc)?
Would make an interesting use of these VCAs, I guess.
trip
J3RK wrote:
cygmu wrote:
J3RK wrote:

Also, I've discovered that I didn't cover everything when trying to make this work perfectly on both 15V and 12V. I've since revised the design to use more reference voltages, but I haven't done a PCB for this version.

For 12V operation to get the sine waves right, the triangle shapers need the following modifications.

R43 and R49 should be 226K.
R42 and R48 should be 158K.


Argh, I wanted to build this very soon and don't have anything like those values around.

It looks like you are using those resistors to generate a 5V bias with 100k impedance. If so, could I instead tap the 5V reference and connect it through a 100k resistor at those points?


My updated version actually does use a 5V reference. I can't remember what the resistor values were, but I can look that up later. They're more typical values. I just picked these ones because they're "plug and play" if slightly odd values. (they're 1% values, but obviously not as common)

When I was done with the Operator PCB I thought I had thought of everything. I didn't think about the triangle conversion relying on the rails though. d'oh!


I'm going to build an operator on 12V, should I go with cygmus suggestion of 100k resistors at those points with the 5V ref? I guess leaving empty the resistors that go to gnd there as well? Cheers.
cygmu
trip wrote:
[
I'm going to build an operator on 12V, should I go with cygmus suggestion of 100k resistors at those points with the 5V ref? I guess leaving empty the resistors that go to gnd there as well? Cheers.


I don't know if you should do that, but I did do that, and it seems to have worked. Here's a picture of my butchery. I tapped the +5V from R11 I think, and used 100k resistors as described. R42, R43, R48 and R49 are omitted, though I made use of the pads for R42 and R49 to connect the 100ks.



Please don't laugh at my build, especially not the surface mount work, and the cat hair.
trip
Thanks cygmu!

I hadn't seen this saw - tri converter before, here's a quick falstad sim showing your mod is correct.

Edit: 75k for R60 & 65 comfortably got me 10V p2p on the sine outputs. I'm tempted to add AC coupling caps on the outputs as well. Now to sort a panel Dead Banana
J3RK
I finally finished up two major builds that a couple of very patient wigglers were waiting for from me. I didn't want to be working on other things while they were waiting for me to finish their projects. I'm shipping the second of the two shortly. I'd like to get back to making a few more things for this format. There are a bunch of things that are actually ready and just sitting idle. I'm going to go through them, make sure that I don't have any improvements that I can make, and then see about getting some boards made in the very near future. I also might be working on a digital oscillator with someone, like a single oscillator version of something like the Cyclebox. Tentative at the moment, but we're talking about it.

I'm making some changes to the Zyrinqz set before that one goes out in its final form. Still quite similar to what it is now, but I'm changing the Low Pass 24db core. I may go for a triple state variable design, as it's consistent, has much more routing possibilities, and one can still build a steeper slope by cascading. That will also solve the discrepancy between the tracking range between the two different core types. (for V/Oct stuff)

I have a new version of the Pulse Logic board that has improved debouncing for the pushbutton circuits.

Anyway, more news to follow. I'm just tying up some loose ends for a few people right now, and should be back to things in the next week or two.

Oh, and I'm also working on a 1U utility strip for voltage scaling, offsets, simple clock division, format conversion, etc. for someone, and if it's interesting to anyone else, I'll post details here after I make more progress.

w00t


Here's a few of these things in action. This was part of one of the builds that I mentioned.



flts
J3RK wrote:
I'm making some changes to the Zyrinqz set before that one goes out in its final form. Still quite similar to what it is now, but I'm changing the Low Pass 24db core. I may go for a triple state variable design, as it's consistent, has much more routing possibilities, and one can still build a steeper slope by cascading. That will also solve the discrepancy between the tracking range between the two different core types. (for V/Oct stuff)


Still on the imaginary waiting list! hihi
Prunesquallor
J3RK wrote:
I also might be working on a digital oscillator with someone, like a single oscillator version of something like the Cyclebox.

I'm making some changes to the Zyrinqz set before that one goes out in its final form.

I have a new version of the Pulse Logic board that has improved debouncing for the pushbutton circuits.

Oh, and I'm also working on a 1U utility strip for voltage scaling, offsets, simple clock division, format conversion, etc.


These all sound great, but also what are the Shift O Tron, TEN Demon Bag, MSF and Micro Dynamix shown in the vids? It would be great if you could give us a rundown of what's generally available - your current inventory, if you like. hyper
J3RK
These were just some little combo modules to put a few things behind one panel.

The Ten Demon Bag was put together specifically for Syncretism, it's an UltraFade VCO, Digital Noise, and Wave Folder.

The Shift O Tron is just a Pico VCO and a Sample & Shift behind one panel.

MSF is a MicroState Filter which is a State Variable Filter. (fairly simple, well behaved, with a conditioned ping input)

The Micro Dynamix is a single Angle Generator, Audio Mixer, and Low Pass Gate in one module.

I've just been making combo panels for function groups that I want to cram into a specific amount of space without making a bunch of smaller panels. I'm happy to post all of these panels if anyone wants to play with them, make other combinations, etc.

I have some final PCBs for a few things, but will need to check my supplies, as I've sent a few here and there. I'd love to get some Synthcube or Modular Addict runs rolling, but I'm thinking that some of the ones with more panel IO/Control could probably use a panel PCB. I've got footprints for all the parts now, so this would be fairly trivial to do. I go through phases of hating wiring, then not minding it, and I'm currently going through an "I hate it" one right now hihi
Prunesquallor
J3RK wrote:
I'd love to get some Synthcube or Modular Addict runs rolling


w00t
synthcube
we're totally there when j3rk says they're ready to roll
J3RK
I'm working on a completely new version of this filter, but I thought I'd post the original here for anyone that wants to tinker with it, adapt it, etc. It's fully functional as-is, I just had a bunch of ideas that I want to implement in a newer version.
hox3d
Hey team.

I always wanted to make that famous Doepfer DIY synth. Some people say it sounds fine, somewhere near the dark energy.
Because recently I started DIY with Loudest Warning/R*S formats, I decided to give it a go.
Well, at least, start by planning things. Online, there is such an example like :
http://www.doepfer.de/DIY_Synth_Customer_Examples.htm

So I thought: wow, I definitely should do it. But with special twists, to add more options.

So the panel is divided into several parts. There are several modules used, from different manufacturers.
I tried to choose them to get the maximum of different functions/uses.
I try to respect the Serge grid but for some important functions, I like to put larger knobs.

So here is the thing (remember it's still in an early concept stage):


From left to right:

There is a R*S New Timbral Oscillator. I wanted this one because one oscillator is not enough.
Since it is already adapted to 4U, it gives a fair amount of 'Serge vibe', I think. Also, It can be used for crossmodulations, FM, etc...

Next up, the DIY synth VCO. You may notice small changes compared to the original one: I decided to add a sub-oscillator w/ a sine/triangle shaper, to get square and sine sub.
Sine subs are quite nice IMO, to give that 'big dirty stinkin' bass' sound (well, it adds a lot). So this one may be used w/ NTO, to create cool timbres.
Ah, and you have the slew limiter right under it, in case you want it.

Right after, you got a nice transistor mixer from North Coast Synthesis. I choose it because I wanted a simple mixer, and this one seems to be just fine.
Also, you can use it as a distortion module, so that's what I wanted. The two parts are virtually the same but one may be used for audio and DC, while the other one is audio oriented.

Next, the filter. It has the classic outputs, with a special 'character' control for notch (mix amount of HP & LP).
Nothing special about it though. It has two inputs to complement nicely the audio mixer.
I've been thinking about the possibility to overdrive the inputs, but that would necessitate amplifiers.

And then, modulators part! On top, you got the DIY synth LFO (with a sine shaper added). It goes to audio range.
Bottom, there is a Slightly Nasty Asymmetric Slew Limiter, which can serve as a Filter, LFO, or Envelope (that is quite nice). Also, it has big knobs, which is cool.
Then, DIY synth Envelope. Nothing special about it as well. You got three speeds.

And finally, you got a Serge noise part (which add both into modulators and audio) and the VCA from DIY synth.
Don't forget the attenuverter at the bottom, which will be some kind of chicklet.

So. What do you think about this? IMO, I think it is a nice system for those who want a 'classic voice'.
But it goes further with several modules able to do several functions.
I'm not so sure about modules placement. I think I will have a PCB made someday, in which I'll be able to plug the Doepfer synth. That will still necessitate wiring, but I think I'll try to make coherent with module placement (instead of having flying wires everywhere). On this PCB I'll add the necessary circuitry for mixers, subs and shapers.

About the graphics: some stuff still need to be cleaned, improved, etc. Maybe find a way to differentiate attenuverters from attenuators, cleaner text positions, etc.

Do you honestly think it's a good project? Any thoughts about this?
ashleym
An exciting project.

If you don't mind I will offer my thoughts (that appear negative but are more me suggesting changes)?

It's got bananas. That is good enough for me.

I prefer more of a Serge grid and fewer knob size changes. The answer for attenverters to attenuators is covered by Serge with the semi circle graphics around the knobs. A simple alternative would by a - + at the 7 and 5 o'clock positions.

The layout and module selection is a bit east coast until you dig in and see the slews etc.

Have a look at the "Transient" envelope here. It has quite a bit of feel of the Serge extended ADSR. I know it has a lot more knobs than the ADSR, a shuffle around of the knob sizes would clear up that space.

https://fitzgreyve2.blogspot.com/p/fitzgreyve-eurorack-modules.html

Having the 2 osc laid out "upside down" to each other jars a bit for me (thats me, not everyone!).

Is there much that can be done for filter modulation? From the looks of things there is only one Fc mod input. No v/oct, no res mod.

Please take this as nothing but constructive
hox3d
Hey, don't worry about being negative. You're not, and I am seeking advices/thoughts. Mr. Green

Yeah, maybe it's a little bit east-coast because that's the essence of the Doepfer DIY synth. The whole idea was building something that goes further than a "classic" synth, with some additional tricks ('cause I had space, you know).

I chose the Slightly Nasty ASL because I built it already, and it makes three functions.

Actually it isn't labelled, but the cutoff modulation input is 1V/oct (if I'm not mistaken). For the resonance, it would involve a little bit more circuitry (one simple VCA), but I guess nothing is impossible. I should definitely do that.

The whole idea about upside down oscillators is that you can cross-modulate them easily (outputs are close to 1V/oct inputs). But yeah, I could flip the whole NTO.

I'll take a look at LW graphics, he knows his stuff.
artilect99
Will the Bit Station run on +/- 12v?
batchas
Sorry, please ignore.
It was a stupid question about panel width, but I realised that +/- 0.3mm difference in width must not be important.
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