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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Frap Tools SAPÈL - Tamed Random Source
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next [all]
Author Frap Tools SAPÈL - Tamed Random Source
Artaos
Let's start a thread on this beautiful and really well thought out random module. I can't wait for it to be released. What do you think?
http://frap.tools/portfolio/sapel/




mdoudoroff
As a lover of random, it’s certainly intriguing. I remain a bit bemused why it’s a double module rather than a smaller, cheaper, single module. Put another way, it still isn’t clear to me what the two circuits do together that makes having two of them essential to the design.
Acquadar
listened live yesterday in Florence at the MEFF. Released in two weeks. Pre-ordered. Cross patching for auto generative Random Nirvana? I will tell you soon guys...
wigwig
Yeah hard to say.
Different flavors of noise (and cross-patching) is all that is obvious.
But some cryptic markings on the panel might be meaningful.
And what are all the swirches for?

mdoudoroff wrote:
As a lover of random, it’s certainly intriguing. I remain a bit bemused why it’s a double module rather than a smaller, cheaper, single module. Put another way, it still isn’t clear to me what the two circuits do together that makes having two of them essential to the design.
nff
Acquadar wrote:
listened live yesterday in Florence at the MEFF. Released in two weeks. Pre-ordered. Cross patching for auto generative Random Nirvana? I will tell you soon guys...


yes pleeeeeeeeeeeeaseeeeeeeee!
RussiaZero23
I like what I see so far. How would this compare with SSF Ultra Random?

would getting both overlap or would The Sapel compliment the SSF?

I already Have the Nanorand and plan on getting the SSF as well.
Tonemod
Love the layout and thinking about adding one to the rack after some initial reviews. The design ethos of the Frap stuff is top shelf.
nrg242
i got the impression this more closely followed the Source of Uncertainty or Sputnik's West Coast Random Source, than the flavors of random from the URA. fluctuating random voltages, quantized/stored random and random gates.

am thinking about swapping out my WCRS for this, but the price tag on this is no joke (500 euros).
Artaos
wigwig wrote:
And what are all the switches for?


The switches are for activating or deactivating a bias for the probability distributions (biased towards either low values, or mid values, or high values)
wigwig
Aha. Thanks wink

Artaos wrote:
wigwig wrote:
And what are all the switches for?


The switches are for activating or deactivating a bias for the probability distributions (biased towards either low values, or mid values, or high values)
phonkmeister
This is the one module presented this year that I will surely get. I've been to a presentation of it at the Martin Pas shop in Turin and it kicks ass.
Once you see it in real life you can't pass on it.

And, speaking with Simone from Frap Tools, it shows that it's really made with passion. Lovely.
evileye0702
It's definitely on my short list. I'm planning to replace a couple modules with this one. Although I might prefer it split in half for less $$$ and hp I can easily see myself using both halves anyway.

Anybody taking pre-orders in the states?
DonKartofflo


This video describes everything very well, i think this is the most inteiguing random module ive seen so far. I especially like the octave-tuned random outputs. My clouds is gonna love this It's peanut butter jelly time!
mdoudoroff
Between this and Qu-Bit’s Chance, it’s really nice to see some novel thinking in this segment. Seems like for a long time now, the mainstream choices have been mostly locked to the MN Wogglebug and the SSF URA.
franman69
I just got an SSF Ultra Random and I'm wondering if I should have hung for this. There are a TON of inputs on the Ultra, but not enough outs.. I wish it had a secondary Gate/Trigger out but I can only find one R Pulse out. It's a powerful module, don't get me wrong. Also two channels with shaped noise... in many ways similar to this Frap module.
Artaos
franman69 wrote:
I just got an SSF Ultra Random and I'm wondering if I should have hung for this. There are a TON of inputs on the Ultra, but not enough outs.. I wish it had a secondary Gate/Trigger out but I can only find one R Pulse out. It's a powerful module, don't get me wrong. Also two channels with shaped noise... in many ways similar to this Frap module.


I just sold my URA to fund an upcoming SAPEL. URA is great, and different in a few ways, but I think the SAPEL will work better for what I want to do.
phonkmeister
Artaos wrote:

I just sold my URA to fund an upcoming SAPEL. URA is great, and different in a few ways, but I think the SAPEL will work better for what I want to do.


I have sold and I am selling all other random modules for it. I've tried the prototype at a presentation and I fell in love. It's so musical. Can't explain it, but it's really musical.
Artaos
phonkmeister wrote:
I've tried the prototype at a presentation and I fell in love. It's so musical. Can't explain it, but it's really musical.


How did the random clocks feel and behave? I haven't had a chance to try it. When I build random clocks out of other modules I usually have 2 controls: maximum time between pulses, and minimum time between pulses (random CV over fall of an envelope). Which controls do you have over the random clocks in SAPEL? What about density vs tempo? Or is it only that one knob over the rate?
simonefabbri
Artaos wrote:
phonkmeister wrote:
I've tried the prototype at a presentation and I fell in love. It's so musical. Can't explain it, but it's really musical.


How did the random clocks feel and behave? I haven't had a chance to try it. When I build random clocks out of other modules I usually have 2 controls: maximum time between pulses, and minimum time between pulses (random CV over fall of an envelope). Which controls do you have over the random clocks in SAPEL? What about density vs tempo? Or is it only that one knob over the rate?


Well, there are two different behaviors, and both are based on the built in clock generator of each section. The differences are;
- "less than", or subtractive, where the fluctuating Random voltages controls a gate which filters clocks. The result is then a random clock which is always "synced" with the original one
- "more than", or additive, where instead of controlling a gate, the fluctuating voltage generates a clock each time that signal passes through a threshold, so you have all normal clocks plus some more where its speed may vary from 15 sec to 50 Hz (around)

That's basically how these works smile
Artaos
simonefabbri wrote:
Artaos wrote:

How did the random clocks feel and behave? I haven't had a chance to try it. When I build random clocks out of other modules I usually have 2 controls: maximum time between pulses, and minimum time between pulses (random CV over fall of an envelope). Which controls do you have over the random clocks in SAPEL? What about density vs tempo? Or is it only that one knob over the rate?


Well, there are two different behaviors, and both are based on the built in clock generator of each section. The differences are;
- "less than", or subtractive, where the fluctuating Random voltages controls a gate which filters clocks. The result is then a random clock which is always "synced" with the original one
- "more than", or additive, where instead of controlling a gate, the fluctuating voltage generates a clock each time that signal passes through a threshold, so you have all normal clocks plus some more where its speed may vary from 15 sec to 50 Hz (around)

That's basically how these works smile


Thank you for the explanations simonefabbri!

In the "more than" random clock mode, is that voltage threshold fixed or controllable? What I mean is that, let's say the rate of change is set to 0.1Hz, my understanding is that there is potentially a random gate every 10 seconds or so, but only if a voltage goes above a certain threshold? So I understand how the rate of change knob can change the frequency of the random clock pulses, but is there a way to control the density?

For example, if someone would like a random clock pulse that happens around every 10s (plus or minus 1s), that is different from a random clock pulse that happens around every 10s (plus or minus 9s). There is more frequency variation in the second case. Are both scenarios possible with the SAPEL? If so, how? Or am I not understanding the module correctly? Thanks!
simonefabbri
The threshold is fixed and is defined in order to get a "usable" density distribution (of course to our tastes when we designed it).
The density in our opinion is defined by that: to obtain a variation like that I'd apply a sort of "rate of change" each second, and then apply some probability distribution to shift the probability to higher or lower, depending on what you want to obtains: so yes, the probability distribution should work on the control signal used for both random clocks.
Of course you can also apply an envelope or a bipolar signal to the rate of change CV in to dynamically control the probability of change over time
simonefabbri
simonefabbri wrote:
The threshold is fixed and is defined in order to get a "usable" density distribution (of course to our tastes when we designed it).
The density in our opinion is defined by that: to obtain a variation like that I'd apply a sort of "rate of change" each second, and then apply some probability distribution to shift the probability to higher or lower, depending on what you want to obtains: so yes, the probability distribution should work on the control signal used for both random clocks.
Of course you can also apply an envelope or a bipolar signal to the rate of change CV in to dynamically control the probability of change over time

Of course the threshold is fixed and in our opinion the best distribution, when the distribution switch is deactivated, then as soon as you start to apply different shifting of distribution, this stays fixed in order to get different results.
Artaos
simonefabbri wrote:
simonefabbri wrote:
The threshold is fixed and is defined in order to get a "usable" density distribution (of course to our tastes when we designed it).
The density in our opinion is defined by that: to obtain a variation like that I'd apply a sort of "rate of change" each second, and then apply some probability distribution to shift the probability to higher or lower, depending on what you want to obtains: so yes, the probability distribution should work on the control signal used for both random clocks.
Of course you can also apply an envelope or a bipolar signal to the rate of change CV in to dynamically control the probability of change over time

Of course the threshold is fixed and in our opinion the best distribution, when the distribution switch is deactivated, then as soon as you start to apply different shifting of distribution, this stays fixed in order to get different results.


Thank you for the detailed answer simonefabbri. I think I get it now. The combination of rate of change + activating a different probably distribution makes it possible to control both the "frequency" and "density" of the random clocks when in "more than" mode. Very nice! I will buy a SAPEL as soon as it comes out.
RussiaZero23
simonefabbri could you demonstrate the Fluctuating Randoms at the Highest speed going down to lowest speed?

It is the deciding Factor for me on this item. I want to hear and see that it remands smooth and not broken or choppy.

If it goes to Audio rate it should be smooth in transition (no stair stepping).
simonefabbri
RussiaZero23 wrote:
simonefabbri could you demonstrate the Fluctuating Randoms at the Highest speed going down to lowest speed?

It is the deciding Factor for me on this item. I want to hear and see that it remands smooth and not broken or choppy.

If it goes to Audio rate it should be smooth in transition (no stair stepping).


yes we can of course do that... the fluctuating voltages are well "integrated" anyway, if that is what you're worried about they doesn't appear Chopped or broken at all, the sampled voltages are integrated proportionally to the sampling interval and then filtered to smooth out any possible "corner". Anyway yes, a video will better explain that in depth, we'll make some as soon as we start to ship first unit next week wink
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