SNAPPIEST ENVELOPE IN 5U

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biosynth
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SNAPPIEST ENVELOPE IN 5U

Post by biosynth » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:55 am

Hi guys,
what is the snappiest envelope in 5U please?
I'm really pleased with my RSF kobol envelopes (exponential?). Does an envelope in this range exist in 5u format?
thanks in advance :sb:
Last edited by biosynth on Wed May 10, 2017 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

dan_e10
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Post by dan_e10 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:46 am

I don't know if this qualifies as snap, but the Oakley ADSR/VCA I have has a nice response on the low range of the decay knob for fine tuning really quick release times. I don't feel it actually allows for a quicker attack/release time than the dotcom envelopes I have, but it makes it easier to dial in those quick attack/release times with more control if that makes sense.
Dan

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Post by ranix » Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:44 pm

might be worth a read, this might be the effect you're looking for in which case you might be able to do it with any EG if you clip the peak

http://www.synthesizers.com/egpunch.html

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tobb
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Re: SNAPPIEST ENVELOPE IN 5U

Post by tobb » Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:26 pm

biosynth wrote:envelope in this range exist in 5u format?
thanks in advance :sb:
NO!

But be aware that the xtra click in the Kobol is the VCA rejection.

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Post by Flareless » Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:33 pm

dan_e10 wrote:I don't know if this qualifies as snap, but the Oakley ADSR/VCA I have has a nice response on the low range of the decay knob for fine tuning really quick release times. I don't feel it actually allows for a quicker attack/release time than the dotcom envelopes I have, but it makes it easier to dial in those quick attack/release times with more control if that makes sense.
Dan
I'd have to second the Oakley ADSR/VCA for speed. I just set up a percussive patch with it and it's very fast and very flexible.
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Minimoog56
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Post by Minimoog56 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:22 pm

3rd for Krisp/Oakley vca/adsr - snappiest in fast plus slow mode.
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snevlida14
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Post by snevlida14 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:34 am

dan_e10 wrote:I don't know if this qualifies as snap, but the Oakley ADSR/VCA I have has a nice response on the low range of the decay knob for fine tuning really quick release times. I don't feel it actually allows for a quicker attack/release time than the dotcom envelopes I have, but it makes it easier to dial in those quick attack/release times with more control if that makes sense.
Dan


Do you have the new q179 envelope ++???

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megaohm
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Post by megaohm » Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:39 pm

What is snappy exactly?
How do I/we quantify that?
Can I see differences between snappiness on a scope?
Last edited by megaohm on Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Stereotactixxx
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Post by Stereotactixxx » Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:36 pm

This one claims to be just that:
http://www.frequencycentral.co.uk/?page_id=1786

That said, I'm happy with the Oakley ADSR and VRG.

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Post by Flareless » Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:27 pm

Stereotactixxx wrote:This one claims to be just that:
http://www.frequencycentral.co.uk/?page_id=1786

That said, I'm happy with the Oakley ADSR and VRG.
The Frequency Central System X ADSR is also VERY snappy! I have one and definitely want a second. Highly recommended.
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Post by Voltage_Controller » Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:15 pm

megaohm wrote:What is snappy exactly?
How do a quantify that?
I am interested as well. As someone who patches a lot of percussive sounds, I get what I think is 'snappy' from a q109. It can produce a "click" attack and the D/S can be dialed to almost instantaneous.

(I have GAS for the ++ modules....) :help:
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Post by ranix » Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:20 pm

Voltage_Controller wrote:(I have GAS for the ++ modules....) :help:
can't help, I have two and they are great

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Post by milkshake » Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:55 am

megaohm wrote:What is snappy exactly?
How do I/we quantify that?
Can I see differences between snappiness on a scope?
Here's a smart person with the right questions.



Maybe snappyness is the amount and spectrum of extra frequencies produced by the vca/envelope combo on top of the incoming audio signal.

Or in more subjective terms the amount of click you hear at the attack stage of a sound. The click being the extra frequencies produced.


One more important subjective aspect is how controllable is this. Ime some envelopes have click on and off, nothing in between.
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Post by biosynth » Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:06 pm

thanks for all your answers.

In "snappy" I mean percussive/punchy envelope. For example pro-one has snappy envelopes, MS20 has slow/soft envelopes.

- It depends of attack speed: at 0 there must be 0 delay before decay start. It can be obvious but a lot of envelopes have a really small "latency" that make envelope not so snappy :roll:
- It depends also of decay curve. A linear slope will be a bit boring (for me), a logarithmic slop will slam your sound. :love:

Thanks for your comments, i will check oakley and frequency central envelopes :tu:

@Tobb: you say Kobol 'click' come from vca saturation, but envelope to VCF has that same nervosity.
Last edited by biosynth on Mon May 01, 2017 5:18 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by Flareless » Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:10 pm

I just did a little informal testing between the Oakley ADSR/VCA, Hexinverter Postman, Dotcom Q109 and the Frequency Central System X ADSR.

For what you're looking for as far as your definition of "snappy" goes I think the Oakley and Frequency Central have the others beat hands down.

All of them are outstanding EGs but when configured the same the Oakley and FC "snap" the fastest.

I'm going to try and prepare a short video illustrating this.
Rich

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Post by Flareless » Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:06 pm

Here's a short demo of a few EGs for your dining and dancing pleasure...

[video][/video]
Rich

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Post by sduck » Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:58 pm

A lot depends on the response of your VCAs. For instance, the MOTM 800's are fairly standard EGs if your your VCAs are running in standard linear mode, but if you switch the VCA to exponential mode - instant super snappy!

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Post by Tronman » Mon May 01, 2017 7:14 am

snevlida14 wrote:
dan_e10 wrote:I don't know if this qualifies as snap, but the Oakley ADSR/VCA I have has a nice response on the low range of the decay knob for fine tuning really quick release times. I don't feel it actually allows for a quicker attack/release time than the dotcom envelopes I have, but it makes it easier to dial in those quick attack/release times with more control if that makes sense.
Dan


Do you have the new q179 envelope ++???
Around 6:05 of this video shows how fast the Q179 is. It's so fast that you can't set any of the controls to zero without getting clicks.

[video][/video]
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frequencycentral
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Post by frequencycentral » Mon May 01, 2017 2:13 pm

For those of you interested in a System X ADSR, I'm offering the current batch with free shipping to the destination of your choice.

Normal off-planet exclusions apply. :-0

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Post by josaka » Mon May 01, 2017 2:42 pm

modded Q109's are fast enough too..

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Post by coyoteous » Mon May 01, 2017 3:48 pm

frequencycentral wrote:For those of you interested in a System X ADSR, I'm offering the current batch with free shipping to the destination of your choice.

Normal off-planet exclusions apply. :-0
PCB and panel sets, too?
Shark, jumped.

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frequencycentral
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Post by frequencycentral » Mon May 01, 2017 4:26 pm

coyoteous wrote:
frequencycentral wrote:For those of you interested in a System X ADSR, I'm offering the current batch with free shipping to the destination of your choice.

Normal off-planet exclusions apply. :-0
PCB and panel sets, too?
Free UK shipping for PCB/panel sets. £2 GBP shipping elsewhere, which represents 40% of usual shipping. Fair enough?

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Post by biosynth » Mon May 01, 2017 4:54 pm

josaka wrote:modded Q109's are fast enough too..
I have these with mods, not completely satisfied

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Post by biosynth » Mon May 01, 2017 5:03 pm

Flareless wrote:Here's a short demo of a few EGs for your dining and dancing pleasure...

[video][/video]
Thanks a lot, very informative :cloud:

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Post by megaohm » Mon May 01, 2017 8:26 pm

Thanks for the vid, Flareless.
Gives me ideas of what it may be.
But honestly, I still don't know how to define snappy or what quality it is.
It still doesn't mean anything to me.
Others have slightly different impressions of what snappy is so it still seems a grey area.

From the video, the two snappy EGs are the Oakley and System X when they are in fast mode. Fast mode equals charging a smaller cap. So with the same settings the EG will be much faster. A smaller cap will charge and discharge faster than a large capacitor.
That could be done to any EG.
Some envelopes have a small resistor in series with the control pots so even at minimum settings they may still have longer attack and decay times than they would without that resistor.
Perhaps that is making a big difference.

I'm sorry if I sound obtuse or an idiot or ungrateful.
I do appreciate the videos! The System X EG was termed snappy and I can built that and check it out on the scope and see what is different, if anything, about this EG's timing and slopes.
Which is cool!
It's an interesting envelope circuit.
(guess I was just wishing someone else would do that work for me :hide: )
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