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Is Moog Model 15 worth it , why ?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> 5U Format Modules Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, ... 12, 13, 14  Next [all]
Author Is Moog Model 15 worth it , why ?
Mark11Audio
Analog Music wrote:

For me it all about the sound and build quality , which one is made and sounds the best is the one I want (subjective I know but still).


... there it is, for you it IS about sound and build quality.

1st, let me say... "good man." Sound is the ultimate thing that's going to come out of those speakers... no matter what name is imprinted on the front panels...

2nd, if that's REALLY the case... the I highly recommend Moon, or Synth-Werk.

Look through my past threads, I have just sold off my entire big 200U modular of Mos-Lab, and other modules to "re-build" and entire [6] cabinet 120U Moon System... as an owner of already a large batch of the Moon Modules, I can attest as to their build quality. really top notch, well done, and their support when you need it, is "unsurpassed!" Gert's attention to build quality is also at the top of my list... here's a picture of my "Sequencing Wing" from last night, I just finished the exterior coating and paint yesterday and will mount the PSU's and internal wiring today hopefully, as well as new screws for the modules.

The Synth-Werk line, also of high regard to build and great attention to detail, Gerhard's modules are indeed exact clones of the Moog modules, and his 901ABBB Oscillator bank will be a key part of that "Moog Sound" you desire... "IF" that's the path you want to go...

... and although a bit cliche' I'm going to say it...

Both Gert and Gerhard are "German Engineering" which has also stood in my eyes, for top notch "better quality" and attention to detail... YMMV... applause Mr. Green applause Mr. Green applause Mr. Green applause

But in the end... I can't tell you, nor can any of the other Wiggler's which way to really go... sometimes you just have to have the original!!! I have, several times...

and of course if you really want one more undeniable source of sound quality... make a sammich and sit down in front of YouTube and watch the 300+ video that John Rice has made with his modular, not [1] Moog Module in there, (well for most of it... years ago he had one of those very RARE Moog 9504A LP Filters) But his stuff is amazing... !!! woah woah woah woah woah woah woah woah woah woah

coyoteous
Mark11Audio: Fahrvergnügen!

Or better yet... Klingenfahrvergnügen!
EMwhite
Mark11Audio wrote:
"... I have just sold off my entire big 200U modular of Mos-Lab, and other modules to "re-build" and entire [6] cabinet 120U Moon System"


I actually thought you were selling everything to buy a Moog Model IIIc.
ranix
Moon modules are hit or miss, I would start with a different manufacturer like Synthwerk or Synthesizers.com and splash Moon modules
bwhittington
Analog Music wrote:
Thanks guys for your help .
Let me say that I'm more of a quality over quantity person .

I say this because I see several post saying , you could get so much more for the price of a Moog model 15 . But would I get the same quality and sound , would those systems last as long ?

I'm not looking for a whole wall of modular , I'm just looking for the best sound available on the planet and use it to make music .


To me, the Model 15 is about tradition and a specific workflow. I had the chance to twist the knobs on one and thought it sounded great. If you are drawn to Moog because of the wealth of great music that has been made on them and find the limitations of its module selection inspiring, then the Model 15 might be a great system for you.

But . . .

Even a budget of $4k could yield a more capable or higher quality system, depending on your criteria. For a $10k budget (or far less), you could choose from the finest modules offered in 5U and enjoy the decade of innovation in modular synthesis since its rebirth. You could load a mid-sized system with a pile unique modulators and/or a diverse selection of filters or VCO's, and it would run circles around the Moog in terms of the complexity of sounds it could produce, not to mention sequencing options.

You don't have to go with a giant wall, but people are making the comparison to what $10k buys because it buys so much more. More modules equals exponentially more sonic possibilities.

For me, my current brand favorites are Moon and Oakley, along with some STG filters and Dotcom utilities, though there are many other great choices. But if I could only have a Moog Model 15 and a Dotcom System 44, say, I would pick the Dotcom. It just does more, and you would have twice as many VCO's to work with. Mind you, I'd be thrilled to get to work with the Moog too, but I've grown used to having a lot of options at my fingertips.

Most modules are as serviceable and as likely to last as the Moog line. (Some, like Dotcom, seem far more serviceable by design, since the only failures I have experienced are panel components) And if you needed to replace something, frankly you could just swap out an entire module for another if needed. With the Moog line, there aren't individual components for sale.
Wray
Analog Music wrote:
Hey guys , I know it's subjective but curious to know your thoughts , pros and cons of the new Moog Model 15 Reissue ?
I haven't seen any reviews what so ever on it .

Do you think it's worth the the price ?
Do you think it will hold it's value ?
How do the clones out there truly compare (sound , build quality ) ?
Will it be truly limited edition or is that marketing hype and they start making gold ones ?
Or is it a waste of big bucks ?

I'm thinking about selling some gear and saving for one .
My main goal is to make great sounding music .
I make all kinds of different music from techno , house , R&B Soul , Rock ,Soundscapes , film score soundtracks , ambient , chill , experamental etc....

I have a Voyager XL , Oberheim Two voice Pro and a few other pieces that I will keep along with software etc..

I love analog sequencing Berlin School type arpeggios (love on a real train , Giorgio Moroder dance type , hypnotic lost in trance vibe ) so I would be adding a sequencer to it .

Just wondering if the Moog Model 15 Reissue is for me because it would be a great investment for me and would hate to be disappointed .
I'm wondering if the Moog truly has something special or magic to it's sound .
I decided not to go full eurorack for now because I enjoy the size of analog sequencers and also considering a Moon 569 .

Thanks for your thoughts and guidance on this .

Peace



Th problm with most folks on sites like MW and Gearslutz is they let themselves being lead by greed. Do you want this gear for making music or out of gear sluttery? If the latter than things are clear, just pull yr wallet. If you need one for making actual MUSIC (yes, that's what these things are for!) than ask yourself first what music you actually want to make and make your decisions from there. First the idea, then the equipment. If you do it the other way around it will be a waste of money. There is no synth nor any type of gear with a 'magic' sound like you say. The magic comes out of your mind. Try to find it there first and I'd suggest try using a cheaper instrument first.

Mark11Audio
coyoteous wrote:
Mark11Audio: Fahrvergnügen!

Or better yet... Klingenfahrvergnügen!


Ja, Ja, Ja

Das ist sehr wahr, ein Mercedes SLS volles Elektroauto mit einem 18 Lautsprecher Bose System auf dem autoban klingt wie eine tolle Idee ... Ich kurble ein Kraftwerk die Roboter und fahre um 180KMH !!! woah woah woah
Mark11Audio
ranix wrote:
Moon modules are hit or miss, I would start with a different manufacturer like Synthwerk or Synthesizers.com and splash Moon modules


I Respectfully Disagree...
kriskeyser
This might be sacrilege to suggest on this forum, but if you're trying to figure out whether it'd be fun or not to patch it/whether you enjoy the sound and features it has, Moog made an iPad version of the Model 15 for $30ish.
Since I'm fairly sure I'll never be able to justify it, this has sufficed for me since it came out. It sounds really good, and it might help you figure out whether it's worth the full price. (It also comes with virtual keyboard control and a simple sequencer, so that helps)
Mark11Audio
EMwhite wrote:
Mark11Audio wrote:
"... I have just sold off my entire big 200U modular of Mos-Lab, and other modules to "re-build" and entire [6] cabinet 120U Moon System"


I actually thought you were selling everything to buy a Moog Model IIIc.


I have owned:

[5] Mini Moogs
[1] Memorymoog+
[1] Micro Moog
[1] Multi moog

A System 35 with a sequencer cabinet and extra 901ABBB BB's

Still own a pair of Taurus II C/V Pedals, (not the Rogue-on-a-stick)

nah, I'm past it... and just to be honest, while some purists may think the pricing is in line... I just think it's too much... YMMV
applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause
Synthoholic
ranix wrote:
Moon modules are hit or miss, I would start with a different manufacturer like Synthwerk or Synthesizers.com and splash Moon modules


I give Moon a C+.
ranix
Mark11Audio wrote:
ranix wrote:
Moon modules are hit or miss, I would start with a different manufacturer like Synthwerk or Synthesizers.com and splash Moon modules


I Respectfully Disagree...


My 554 clock divider has problems, my 564 sequential switch's channel 3 doesn't work (the audio is being passed through the lamp somehow), the 524a just doesn't work at all in low speed mode (thread: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=175425), and the 511D bugs out and gets into a bad state sometimes. Of the 7 Moon modules in my system, 4 of them have critical flaws.

I use Moon modules in every patch I make but if the only modules I had were Moon modules my synthesizer would be in poor condition imho.

edit: after writing this I got annoyed and removed the 564, took it apart, inspected it, and put it back together and the problem appears to be resolved
MindMachine
josaka wrote:
basically.. if you have 10k and want it to say moog on it.. go for it.

if you want more for less go other routes..


No shit. Perhaps they weren't getting the assurance they needed.

MOS-LAB!!!!
josaka
I have 7 Mos-Lab osc on order..!

2 kobal to go with the one I have.. + 921's
robotmakers
Wray wrote:
Th problem with most folks on sites like MW and Gearslutz is they let themselves being lead by greed. Do you want this gear for making music or out of gear sluttery? If the latter than things are clear, just pull yr wallet. If you need one for making actual MUSIC (yes, that's what these things are for!) than ask yourself first what music you actually want to make and make your decisions from there. First the idea, then the equipment. If you do it the other way around it will be a waste of money. There is no synth nor any type of gear with a 'magic' sound like you say. The magic comes out of your mind. Try to find it there first and I'd suggest try using a cheaper instrument first.


This is spot on. If making music in certain genres is important, look to the tools that were actually used to make your favorite examples in those genres. If the tools are very old, also consider whether in the intervening years more cost effective tools have been introduced that don't compromise the essence of the original tools.

Cheers,
Roger
CZ Rider
Analog Music wrote:
BTW anyone know the year the original Moog Model 15 came out and what the price was back then ?

The original model 15,35,55 were Norlin era Moogs and the official brochures announcing these new models was published in 1974. They were quite different from the previous models 10, I, II, III.
There were economy versions 15a and 35a that were missing the somewhat expensive 907a filter bank. And a 55a that was missing the sequencer components 960,961cp,962. The idea here that one could add those or whatever modules as needed. The street price was much lower than the official brochure price listed. For instance a Minimoog that listed for $1495.00 could be purchased at your local music shop for about $950.00 in 1974. I seem to recall around $2500.00 for the model 15 and about $500.00 less for the 15a.
I think we can all agree that one of the beauties of a modular system is the ability to custom build an instrument as individual as our needs. And the ability to expand an existing instrument. So it would not be uncommon back in the day to order a 15a with an extra 921b oscillator or extra 911 envelope generator. Or perhaps another 904a filter with an extra 911 envelope for a two voice system via the included 952 controller. The systems were really just suggestions and means of standard cabinet wiring. It was up to the buyer to decide exactly what modules they needed. Guessing this is no longer a modular option with the reissues?
Mark11Audio
ranix wrote:
Mark11Audio wrote:
ranix wrote:
Moon modules are hit or miss, I would start with a different manufacturer like Synthwerk or Synthesizers.com and splash Moon modules


I Respectfully Disagree...


My 554 clock divider has problems, my 564 sequential switch's channel 3 doesn't work (the audio is being passed through the lamp somehow), the 524a just doesn't work at all in low speed mode (thread: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=175425), and the 511D bugs out and gets into a bad state sometimes. Of the 7 Moon modules in my system, 4 of them have critical flaws.

I use Moon modules in every patch I make but if the only modules I had were Moon modules my synthesizer would be in poor condition imho.

edit: after writing this I got annoyed and removed the 564, took it apart, inspected it, and put it back together and the problem appears to be resolved


wow, sorry to hear that... have you contacted Gert with your detailed descriptions of your issues? He's been very good at resolving issues, whether it is repair or replace... but at the very least, an email might help with the over all situation... but then you may have already done this.

Best of luck...
ranix
Mark11Audio wrote:
wow, sorry to hear that... have you contacted Gert with your detailed descriptions of your issues?


Gert was contacted in that thread but I haven't talked to him myself. Since the problems are outright design flaws and not failures of the individual modules there's nothing that can be done.

A new user shouldn't have to guess about what functionality their modules will provide, they should do exactly what they say on the tin and behave as expected. Sync should do the same thing in all modes, etc. In lieu of that detailed instructions must be provided. I haven't seen issues like this from any other manufacturer unless you count the aliasing problems on the new synthesizers.com envelope++. I'll still recommend Moon when a user says "I need a module that does X" and a Moon module does X, but I won't recommend a Moon system to a new user.
Bowman
Mark11Audio wrote:
.......and of course if you really want one more undeniable source of sound quality... make a sammich and sit down in front of YouTube and watch the 300+ video that John Rice has made with his modular, not [1] Moog Module in there, (well for most of it... years ago he had one of those very RARE Moog 9504A LP Filters) But his stuff is amazing... !!


+1 from me! This bears repeating.

Any module, regardless of manufacturer, is simply a tool. Like any tool, the final result is dependent of the craftsman wielding the tool. Hand me a Stradivarius or Guarneri violin and I will give you really shitty sounds. Hand it to a violinist......not so much.

Modular synths are really the same. I have a moderately sized modular pieced together from really high quality builders (none of them Moog). I'm a newbie, still on a steep learning curve and my "music" shows it. But I am progressing nicely however.

Now if I could fly someone of John Rice's skill and experience to my house and plunk him done in front of my modular for a week, I'm sure he could coax some wonderful results from his doodling. Not to mention giving me some invaluable advice. Operator skill plays a bigger part of your overall sound than what oscilator is best or what filter is the best, IMHO.

Regardless, of what you end up buying, realize that you are the most important component of your sound.
JohnLRice
eek! Mark11Audio and Bowman, thanks so much for your exceedingly kind words! we're not worthy It is my normal response to high praise but I will avoid trying to point out all the ways I think I suck! oops Thanks again! Hug
Analog Music
CZ Rider wrote:
Analog Music wrote:
BTW anyone know the year the original Moog Model 15 came out and what the price was back then ?

The original model 15,35,55 were Norlin era Moogs and the official brochures announcing these new models was published in 1974. They were quite different from the previous models 10, I, II, III.
There were economy versions 15a and 35a that were missing the somewhat expensive 907a filter bank. And a 55a that was missing the sequencer components 960,961cp,962. The idea here that one could add those or whatever modules as needed. The street price was much lower than the official brochure price listed. For instance a Minimoog that listed for $1495.00 could be purchased at your local music shop for about $950.00 in 1974. I seem to recall around $2500.00 for the model 15 and about $500.00 less for the 15a.
I think we can all agree that one of the beauties of a modular system is the ability to custom build an instrument as individual as our needs. And the ability to expand an existing instrument. So it would not be uncommon back in the day to order a 15a with an extra 921b oscillator or extra 911 envelope generator. Or perhaps another 904a filter with an extra 911 envelope for a two voice system via the included 952 controller. The systems were really just suggestions and means of standard cabinet wiring. It was up to the buyer to decide exactly what modules they needed. Guessing this is no longer a modular option with the reissues?

Thanks , so is it possible to find those old Moog moduels today or is it impossible because I never see them for sale ?
If not wouldnt that mean the only way to get official Moog modules would be to buy one of Moog reissues systems , is this correct ?
If so then maybe thats part of the price like a supply and demand thing .
Like if somewhere in the world they found 100 Picasso paintings in new condition plus the history and legacy would demand extremely high price even if more modern day painters had subjectively better paintings .
So with that in mind maybe the Moog re-issues are a fair price or even a steal ,
if you look at it like that . I just like to understand Moog perspective on the reissues pricing maybe their right .
Analog Music
Mark11Audio wrote:


Awesome would luv to hear what you do with all that sequencing power ?
Analog Music
JohnLRice wrote:
eek! Mark11Audio and Bowman, thanks so much for your exceedingly kind words! we're not worthy It is my normal response to high praise but I will avoid trying to point out all the ways I think I suck! oops Thanks again! Hug

Yes John I'm a big fan .
Would really like to talk to you about this video ?
What would I need with the Moog Model 15 to sequence like you in this video ?
Would I need more oscillators or something more ?
And how would you compare the Grp R24 to the moon 569 ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Htgz6n5kMQQ
don't know why video link not showing up
josaka
@Mark11Audio.. hey mark was wondering why you are selling off your mos lab and going moon..
the sound? build ? design?
..just curious as I am buying some mos lab as we speak..

I have many different makers in my set up hordijk/oakley/corsynth/mos-lab/.com/krisp1/Stroh/Fritz etc.. why the chopped mos lab.? .smile
coyoteous
Synthoholic wrote:
ranix wrote:
Moon modules are hit or miss, I would start with a different manufacturer like Synthwerk or Synthesizers.com and splash Moon modules


I give Moon a C+.

Ouch... based on what?

I, too, have the quirky divider and dual envelope, but other modules that seem solid so far (A for me... not much for plus/minus letter grading).

It would be nice have some official statement on known problems, though.
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