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landscape.fm allflesh
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY  
Author landscape.fm allflesh
oootini
any one else excited to get hands on with these? i really think they are going to open up a lot of possibilities.



http://www.landscape.fm/allflesh/
sduck
Just ordered! Saw a demo of this on instagram, but didn't know much about it until just now.
eclectics
Ive built mine, but not sure ive done a good enough job.
Touching the pad on a pitch cv is very noticeable, but its like a fast oscillation, not subtle at all, and it doesnt make any difference how much of the pad i touch.

Ive added a pad to random out nad i can touch both, and it works fine to get the random to the pitch, but still through the noisy oscillation.

What are other peoples experiences so far?
onurkalaycioglu
i have some. i found them pretty hard to solder, and i solder a lot. my biggest problem is the pcb design itself. its really easy to bridge the ground and hot planes because if you solder and cover the entire ground sleeve and pad(as listed in the instructions) its possible for solder to leak underneath to the tip, not necessarily over to the adjacent tip pad. i did try to keep the jack extremely flush(like mentioned in instructions) with the pcb too.

there should be a circular(or slightly bigger) gap between the pads, or i mean the ground pad should be a little shorter in length.
mutable
onurkalaycioglu wrote:
i have some. i found them pretty hard to solder, and i solder a lot. my biggest problem is the pcb design itself. its really easy to bridge the ground and hot planes because if you solder and cover the entire ground sleeve and pad(as listed in the instructions) its possible for solder to leak underneath to the tip, not necessarily over to the adjacent tip pad. i did try to keep the jack extremely flush(like mentioned in instructions) with the pcb too.

there should be a circular(or slightly bigger) gap between the pads, or i mean the ground pad should be a little shorter in length.


Hmm, food for thought. I think I'll take the risk on these anyways, given they seem like a much more budget friendly version of the Stereo Field, which I've been drooling over for months....
Danielo
eclectics wrote:
Ive built mine, but not sure ive done a good enough job.
Touching the pad on a pitch cv is very noticeable, but its like a fast oscillation, not subtle at all, and it doesnt make any difference how much of the pad i touch.

Ive added a pad to random out nad i can touch both, and it works fine to get the random to the pitch, but still through the noisy oscillation.

What are other peoples experiences so far?


I agree - big disappointment.

I have soldered many kits (that work), so I know my soldering skills are good.

The problem really is that they work ONLY IF THEY ARE AMPLIFIED FIRST - which defeats the purpose of them in the first place. Tried them as gate/trigger/modulation on several modules (including those which others have demonstrated successfully).

I do not believe that the vendor is selling snake oil, but (if we assume in good faith) that the quality of the components are equal to those demoed by Richard Devine, then I can only assume another factor is at play which results in the differing experience...

I wonder if climate makes a difference? Humidity of fingers?

It would be lovely if the manufacturer could chime in here...I am not angry, given the price paid was reasonable, but I would have loved if they worked better.
Bachelard
Just built a set, and I'd consider myself pretty comfortable with solderingbut this was quite challenging, trying to hold the plug/lug in place while trying to handle two other things at the same time. I didn't read about the clothing pin trick until after I did it.

They all seem to *work* but I'm not getting much voltage range out of them. I plug it into a 1V/Oct input of an oscillator and I can modulate maybe up to a semitone, and some modulation inputs I get no response at all. Trigger inputs seem to work okay, but didn't seem to be strong enough for triggering a Maths.
Any idea?

Also, I don't know if others had the problem, but my solder had trouble flowing/staying onto the lugs. They flowed fine onto the solder pads. I've used crappy soldering irons before, but I'm now using a soldering station that I've done a bunch of kits on and it's worked perfectly, so I know my iron is hot enough.
SoundPool
anyone tried these out with a ms20 mini? I'm curious how they would work given the MS using things like negative triggers and the like. they seem like fun but would be quite a waste if they did nothing at all.
Jarno
the plugs shown above look like the very cheap ones you can buy at places like Dealextreme and Aliexpress. I had a batch of those and I could not get them soldered properly, possibly because of the plating. I used a few which I sanded before soldering, but gave up.
windspirit
Have you guys tried licking your fingers? Always works with circuit bent stuff. Lotion helps too.
RadioTelefonik
I bought a set a while back, but not really for their intended use. I've got em wired up as the touchpads on a Ciat-Lonbarde DDDM2, and they work well for that, I suppose. Ultimately, they are just conductive plates. Anyone here tried using them for manual patching as opposed to an actual voltage source? I was under the impression that that was more what they were for.
Karl71
Ive soldered up two sets with the jacks that were included and had to desolder everything.i bought some better quality jacks but still only ended up with 7 that work intermittently.when i have the time i will get back to it.but for such a simple project it became a bit of a head ache.
Bachelard
ok, good to know I'm not the only one who found it a bit challenging. I have some a few better quality jacks and will try to switch one up and see if it works better. a bit sad as I thought i could really use my system in a more instrumental way.

dreading the de-soldering....
Jarno
But those pads are simply pieces of PCB material with copper on each side? No components or routing or anything?
I wouldn't bother desoldering everything, just buy non-photosensitive double sided copper clad PCB material, and chop into bits using a dremel or handsaw. And solder that to the (proper quality) jacks.
Bachelard
So, I tried resoldering half of them because I happened to have 5 gold-plated jacks that I bought a while ago. So, bottom row are the gold jacks that I've resoldered, which went much smoother, because the solder latched onto the lugs much more easily, and I used a binder clip to hold the other lug in place while I soldered the first lug.



Sadly, nothing's really changed in terms of performance. The gold ones seem to work exactly the same as the silver ones, ie., they work as triggers, but the CV voltage range still seems very very small. I notice some effect when I plug it into a CV input with an attenuator/gain, but otherwise it doesn't really modulate at a useable range.

They trigger certain things (Basimilus, Ladik gate delay, QCD), but I could not consistently trigger the Maths. I was able to do it once. The weird thing is that sometimes I'd test one, unplug it, do something else, plug one back into a trigger jack, and it would no longer work. It's almost like I shorted something. Is that possible? I mean, I know i didn't short anything because everything in my system is still running.

The saga continues...
Jarno
Well, the functionality of these is highly dependent on the input circuitry where you plug them into. The input impedance will vary from input to input, and so will the sensitivity.
So, they will work better on some inputs than others, and there's really no telling unless you know the circuit of the module.
If they work, cool, if not, try something else, that's really all you can do.
Bachelard
So, Eric from Landscape cleared it up when I emailed him directly:

"Are you attempting to use them one at a time or in pairs? There are a lot of people who have been attempting to use them as singular touch plates but they are made to be used in pairs (or more). Aka your hands as the patch cables between two points."

Tried them as patch points, work perfectly.

From the website (my emphasis):

"AllFlesh is a patching system for modular systems. It's a new way to interact, perform and control, yielding new results and new sounds not possible without the subtleties of human touch and gestural expression. You are the patch cords: you create modulation, your fingers are multiples, you are attenuation, you bend pitches with finger pressure, you transfer sequences from oscillator to oscillator, you trigger voices. AllFlesh work the same way patch cables do but you must use your hands to complete a connection between ins and outs."

So, I suppose that implied they weren't designed to work as single touchplates, but it also sounds like I wasn't the only one who misinterpreted. Perhaps it would have been more clear if he said explicitly they work in pairs, like "you must use your hands to complete a connection between ins and outs i.e., between two pads"?

And, yes, in all the demo videos, at least two pads were touched. d'oh!
Jarno
Same thing remains true, how well this works is depending on the circuitry of the module you are using it on, and apparently not just input, but also output.

And a great way to expose your modules to static discharges hmmm.....
Bachelard
Jarno wrote:
Same thing remains true, how well this works is depending on the circuitry of the module you are using it on, and apparently not just input, but also output.

And a great way to expose your modules to static discharges hmmm.....


True and true. I did play with the Allfleshes last night for a bit longer (now that I feel like a dummy) and they worked pretty consistently across different modules, and across two separate cases with different power supplies.

I also found that the limitation that you can only create one path at a time is actually its unique contribution to a modular system, i.e., if you're touching an LFO output and want to send to a filter cutoff, you can't also touch a sequencer pitch output and hoping to send it to an oscillator v/oct independent of the LFO-filter path. Both sequencer and LFO outputs will send to both filter and oscillator inputs. It affords a physically different way of thinking about patch points than using patch cables and mults and stackcables, which I find really cool.

And the surface amount being touched does work well in attenuating and controlling the amount of voltage being sent through.
SoundPool
still wondering if anyone out there had taken these out for a test on a MS20 mini? 37 bucks for 10 with the international shipping is a bit high for me to try them blind. given the MS' different response ranges I'm just cautious before taking the plunge. or perhaps I'll get impatient enough soon and try it out.
RadioTelefonik
tbh, the description is pretty clear, imo. However, I know I'm prone to just skimming over module descriptions, manuals, legal documents, etc.

where they do work well as input sources, though, is on the DDDM2. I'm finding that they give me an incredible array of tonal variation per pad. But that's ultimately down to the conductivity of the material, the size of the pads, and the fact that they're running their input signals into op-amps that are doing weird feedback shit or whatever.
SoundPool
so I went for it and picked up a set to try out with my ms-20 mini. still messing around with them a bit but so far I can tell its not the ideal application for them. In part that is because of the MS' unique voltage response range and also that I think a lot of the CV signals aren't that strong. But they are still usable and will just take some time to figure out the ideal applications for them.

That said for the price the jacks that come with these things are atrocious dollar store quality. It is a good thing the kit comes with a couple spares because some of the ones I got are borderline unusable due to excess plastic or the tabs not actually being straight enough to line them up with the PCBs. While doing it once in open air for a couple minutes isn't going to give you exposure problems unless you huff the dust having folks sand down PCBs who maybe don't know any better doesn't seem like a hot idea. While the boards are thicker than average I find the price pretty excessive (I don't know how much the immersion plating costs to be honest, but I can't imagine it is THAT bad?)- either include quality jacks and/OR the PCBs should be milled better. While getting them made up as individual boards isn't cost effective it doesn't seem like it would be that hard to me to reduce the amount of surface area covered in bite-marks for separation, minimizing the sanding or amount of nasty sharp hanging bits.
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