[Build Thread] 157 spaces of fun!

Moog, Synthesizers.com, MOTM, Modcan, Moon and others..... Go big!

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Post by Rex Coil 7 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:09 pm

DrReverendSeance wrote:..... Any particular reason you want to go 90 degree? I've found 90 degrees cables get in the way while patching. Just MHO.
Speaking only for myself here, personally I like using them in certain spots on my modular that tend to stay patched.

Also, their low profile allows my hand to sweep across the panel to get from one area to another (the same natural way you would when playing a completely hardwired performance synth).

Standard .. as in "straight" .. patchcords require that my hand first move roughly 6 inches back towards my body ... then move over to the next area of attention (next module or region I wish to tweek) ... and then move six inches back inward towards the panel to apply changes (twist knobs, flick switches). So it becomes an issue of economy of movement. It sounds super trivial, even as I type this. However, moving from one set of controls to the next means moving away, then over, then back in again. Right angle jacks mean ... well ... just moving over rather than the out/over/in motion. Less electric hair to get my hands/fingers tangled up with.

Here's a pic of Tom's ("Noddy's Puncture") rebuilt 1970's R. A. Moog modular ... note the region at the lower right .... nice and low profile. Easier to get from knob to knob without "tripping" over cables and straight jacks in a hurry during realtime performance.

(outstanding performance synth ... so glad to see the old Moog making live music with a progressive rock band and entertaining people rather than enshrined in some museum-like environment or relegated to doing gear shows such as NAMM like some poor perfectly restored 1967 Mustang that gets traded back and forth between wealthy collectors at Barret Jackson auctions ... this one is out there performing, exactly what it was intended to do ... GO TOM!!). whew! ... that's one hell of a run-on sentence!

Image

If you've not seen Tom in action, make it a point to check out a couple of his videos that he's released in just the past day or so. You can see how quickly he needs to move from region to region (his recent live performance of Hoedown by ELP is especially exciting). The low profile cables really help with that.

:bananaguitar: :bananaguitar: :bananaguitar:
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Post by DrReverendSeance » Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:04 am

Interesting, thanks RC7.

I still find the 90 dgree plugs block the jacks nearby, or get in the way of knobs, and I see the benefit of the easier access for controls.

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Post by Eric the Red » Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:38 am

@RexCoil7 - mono vs Stereo - I just clicked on the first one I saw that was reasonably priced... I updated my original post with links to Mono jacks.

--Thanks for the tip on placement. With these being 100% DIY, I can make sure they are placed right. For my existing DotCom stuff, I might run into an issue at some point, but I'll figure it out later.

@Thresholdpeople - Thanks!!

@DrReverendSceance - for the reason RexCoil7 posted, the height while patched.
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Post by Rex Coil 7 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:11 pm

DrReverendSeance wrote:Interesting, thanks RC7.

I still find the 90 dgree plugs block the jacks nearby, or get in the way of knobs....
This is totally true. I suppose the choice depends on intended use at the time of use. Doing sonic design work in the studio ... straight plugs all the way for the reasons The Dr. cites ... 100% agree.

:hail: :tu:
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Post by Synthbuilder » Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:07 am

Rex Coil 7 wrote:Oh man ... the Oakley Deep Equinox looks a treat! Heheh .... the ~Deepquinox~

http://www.oakleysound.com/deep.htm

Dumb noob question though .... does it have to go post-output VCA or does it process fully blown VCO "synth level" outputs?
You can stick it any where in the modular signal chain. In a standard MU/MOTM format synth the audio levels are typically +/-5V and the Equinoxe can handle this with ease. It'll be happy enough with lower levels too but the signal to noise ratio won't be as good.

Tony

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Post by Rex Coil 7 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:11 pm

Synthbuilder wrote:
Rex Coil 7 wrote:Oh man ... the Oakley Deep Equinox looks a treat! Heheh .... the ~Deepquinox~

http://www.oakleysound.com/deep.htm

Dumb noob question though .... does it have to go post-output VCA or does it process fully blown VCO "synth level" outputs?
You can stick it any where in the modular signal chain. In a standard MU/MOTM format synth the audio levels are typically +/-5V and the Equinoxe can handle this with ease. It'll be happy enough with lower levels too but the signal to noise ratio won't be as good.

Tony
Great! Thanks for the information. 8-)
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Post by Eric the Red » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:26 pm

Image

First panel - DONE - or so I thought...

Module: Barton Musical Circuits VCA-Mix (X10!!)
-Link to Module description: http://www.bartonmusicalcircuits.com/vcamix/

You know when you go and just start something without really looking at the source material, and then just kind of keep going with it... well, that's precisely what your good friend Eric did with this one.
:despair: :despair: :bang: :bang: :russian: :russian: :russian: :russian: :russian:

So, this guy designed this panel for each VCA being 1-channel instead of 4!! so consider this draft #1. The final version will be set up similar to this, with the Master outs being at the end, only now instead of each channel being set up horizontally, they will be vertical.

I am really happy with how this design turned out, sucks its gotta change. Oh well, let's see how draft 2 turns out later this week. I originally had this bad boy slotted for 20U, lets see how that goes.
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Post by Rex Coil 7 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:02 am

Eric the Red wrote:..... each VCA being 1-channel instead of 4!! ....
Ok Eric ... I'm not getting it .... So there will be 4x as many channels when you reconfigure it (40 channels)? Naw .... that's gotta be wrong. I looked at the link, still confused (sweet find though!!).

Yea, see, I'm lost here .... I believe my problem is obvious, see below.

Image
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Post by Eric the Red » Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:37 am

Hey Rex - each Master Out should have 4-inputs each to mix together.

To clarify..
-Each VCA has 4-channels, so 4-rows that I had in the middle part of the panel all correspond to 1-Master Out.
-Not to sound like a smart ass, especially being the dumb ass who made a silly panel... I think this is how Mr.Bartongot the clever name for VCA/Mix - its 4-VCAs going to 1-Master mix out.

The redesigned panel will be a lot more compact, but instead of having 2-rows of 5 in the middle, it will have 10-rows of 4, or I might keep it horizontal... who knows!!

Hope this helps
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Post by Rex Coil 7 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:40 pm

Eric the Red wrote:Hey Rex - each Master Out should have 4-inputs each to mix together.

To clarify..
-Each VCA has 4-channels, so 4-rows that I had in the middle part of the panel all correspond to 1-Master Out.
-Not to sound like a smart ass, especially being the dumb ass who made a silly panel... I think this is how Mr.Bartongot the clever name for VCA/Mix - its 4-VCAs going to 1-Master mix out.

The redesigned panel will be a lot more compact, but instead of having 2-rows of 5 in the middle, it will have 10-rows of 4, or I might keep it horizontal... who knows!!

Hope this helps
AH! I see now. It's sortof like an extension of the idea behind the Doepfer A-135-1 Quad VCA/Mixer design.

Coincidentally, just last night I finished up wiring up some normaling "defeat" switches on my own A-135-1. The odd 7th switch provides the ability to remove any of the 4 VCAs from the "SUM out". Meaning, with the switch flipped UP all 4 VCAs are routed to the SUM output. With the switch DOWN, use of any of the individual VCA outputs removes them from the SUM out. So, plug a patch cable in to (let's say) VCA 3 output, then the SUM output will include VCA's 1, 2, and 4 ... removing VCA 3 from the SUM output. Pretty much how the MATHS 2013 works. Switch UP, and all four VCAs are routed to both their individual outs, as well as the SUM output regardless of any individual VCA outs that are being used.

Image

Image

The other six toggles defeat the factory normalisation between the SIGNAL inputs, as well as the CV inputs. This permits running each VCA as an isolated stand alone VCA, or including it with any of the VCAs that remain normalled to each other's inputs or CV inputs that control them.

Man, that's a mouthful. Versatility and options, it's The Way Of The Modular.

:tu:

EDIT: Normalising, normalization, normalling (2 L's), normaling (1 L), EVERWHAT! I cannot seem to decide how I wish to misspell it! :lol: The only one that the built-in spell checker approves of is "normalizing". My grammar sucks.

:deadbanana:
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Post by Eric the Red » Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:10 pm

Panel redesigned... just need to make everything lined up and add all the details. ended up being 1u longer than expected - ended up doing 1 big ass 21u panel instead of 2x10u. :despair: What's an extra U when working on a system that is 157 spaces?

Glad I planned on having random extra spaces throughout.

**Picture coming soon**
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Post by Rex Coil 7 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:37 pm

I'm curious. You seem to be an adventurous thinker, that said, do you have any plans for creating some sortof "modulation sections", sortof akin to the modulators found on the likes of the Moog Sub 37, or the Korg MS-20?

Perhaps a kindof "MATHS" type module or section that provides a lot of madulation ... (that's a misspell, but I like it so much that I left it!). There's really no pre-designed modulators in the MU format that offer that type of versatility, at least not without patching several modules together first.

And another one here .... what of modulation mixing and distribution? EG; I've cooked up a combination of a Q113 8ch x 2 bus mixer with two Q147 Distributors (one distributor wired to each mixer bus output). This ~thang~ is to be repaneled into a single large-ish Euro panel to fit in the modulation cab that I chose to use. It will still use 15vdc power, I'm simply repaneling that stuff to fit in 3U rails. It has the ability to mix any number of modulation sources, while also having the ability to send those signals to any number of destinations, while also being able to invert some signals to given destinations (the Q147 uses attenuverters on each output channel, of which there are 3 per distributor).

I suppose I'm asking if you've schemed up any type of modulation stage or section that goes beyond just a simple collection of individual modules.

Your twisted mind seems as though it's from the same mold that mine was cast in. So that's why I ask (I figure you may have some unconventional ideas about that, just like the first thing here that you've shared with everyone ... your MEGA VCA!).

:tu:
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Post by Eric the Red » Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:50 pm

Picture file

Here is the super sized panel... 21U.

This set of modules is meant to be the final destination before heading out to a mixer and then out of some speakers and into my ears.

Modular path for this will be: [Some sort of module] --> VCA Mix --> Patch Bay --> Mixer --> My Ears and my dogs ears.

It has a total of 10-Master Outs, and 40 inputs...
:vcas: - I think I do, 40! in "one module"
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Post by Eric the Red » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:19 pm

[/video]
Rex Coil 7 wrote:I'm curious. You seem to be an adventurous thinker, that said, do you have any plans for creating some sortof "modulation sections", sortof akin to the modulators found on the likes of the Moog Sub 37, or the Korg MS-20?

Perhaps a kindof "MATHS" type module or section that provides a lot of madulation ... (that's a misspell, but I like it so much that I left it!). There's really no pre-designed modulators in the MU format that offer that type of versatility, at least not without patching several modules together first.

And another one here .... what of modulation mixing and distribution? EG; I've cooked up a combination of a Q113 8ch x 2 bus mixer with two Q147 Distributors (one distributor wired to each mixer bus output). This ~thang~ is to be repaneled into a single large-ish Euro panel to fit in the modulation cab that I chose to use. It will still use 15vdc power, I'm simply repaneling that stuff to fit in 3U rails. It has the ability to mix any number of modulation sources, while also having the ability to send those signals to any number of destinations, while also being able to invert some signals to given destinations (the Q147 uses attenuverters on each output channel, of which there are 3 per distributor).

I suppose I'm asking if you've schemed up any type of modulation stage or section that goes beyond just a simple collection of individual modules.

Your twisted mind seems as though it's from the same mold that mine was cast in. So that's why I ask (I figure you may have some unconventional ideas about that, just like the first thing here that you've shared with everyone ... your MEGA VCA!).

:tu:
With DIY, I am not at a high level yet. My current skill set lies with "Look at parts list, insert part into designated slot on PCB". Anything else is pretty advanced for me at the current time. With these VCA's, what I would like to do for 8 of them - because I do not think there is room at the very bottom for #5 and #10 - is add a switch to to toggle on/off the input going into the final mix.

Here is the schematic/assembly guide / all of the information for this module - if you can figure it out and explain it like you would explain it to a toddler... I would like to make that mod. http://www.bartonmusicalcircuits.com/vc ... ion3.1.pdf

For your Combination q113 8ch x 3 bus mixers with 2 q147's, that you are turning into euro sized - check out this other Barton module: http://www.bartonmusicalcircuits.com/router/ - Its like the q147, but without the knobs. I'm sure they could be added, I just don't know how.

In terms of crazy modulation stages / or anything out of the ordinary, nothing really beyond "a collection of individual modules". The way I have them all grouped together is that they are all smaller systems collected as a whole:

2x Klee sequencer systems
1x Null A2 (Click this link for Andrew's write up of it - http://nonlinearcircuits.blogspot.com/2 ... ll-a2.html)
[video] [/video]
[video] [/video]
1x Stroh / J3rk Bit Station for some randomness and crazy light show
8x drums controlled by 4 sequencers
2x LFO Modules (or 8x LFO's depending on how you look at the modules...) for some weird ambient / crazy noises / fart factory effects.


When I eventually get into the Euro section I will probably get a lot of Nonlinear Circuits stuff because Andrew is cooking up a lot of off the wall stuff that no one else is doing, the Metasonix stuff that I wan't is probably out of the price range for me - especially as I love DIY, and I wan't to get 33 of pre-build modules to use with a keyboard - no sequencers, just standard keyboard modulation. The dot-com prices are within my budget for 1-module a month or so once I am done paying for DIY stuff.

Another project that is on the list for this, that will either go in the euro slot I have in the right cabinet, or I might build something special for it to live in its own house - haven't decided yet.. Its the NGF Vocoder, that Mr. Harald has cooked up in Germany. It's a small project - only about 80 boards to populate... and then build a mic to go with it.

On to the next panel. Thinking of doing the Null a2.
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Post by Rex Coil 7 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:36 pm

No sweat, Eric. I'm no different than you, my mixer/distributor thingy is nothing but repaneled Dot Com circuits. All to easy to do ... plot the knobs and jacks on a panel, mount the PCBs taken from "a collection of modules", and then use the headers on the PCBs to connect said pots and jacks. Perhaps a bit of normaling between various jacks, maybe insert a switch or two in between things to give them on/off capability (or to re-route a signal without using a patch cord). Call it good.

With Dot Com stuff, it's just so easy .. there's even the occasional jumper link that may be replaced with a toggle ... like I did with that Doepfer VCA mixer.

Easy peasy.

I haven't taken the time to look over that circuit you suggested, I'm smack-ass in the middle of yet more normaling on my synth. Just took a break for a few moments to stand up and stretch and check subbed posts real quick ... alas, the soldering iron awaits me.

8-)

EDIT: As for the "mega modulator" I asked about, all that needs to be is a VCO, a VCA or two, perhaps an EG or two. Normaled together in productive ways. Again, this may be done with "a collection of modules" taken apart and repaneled as I described above. All I meant by the "collection of modules" comment was that some folks will say to use just that .... patch some modules together with patch cords to create whatever modulations you require. That's all I meant .... using patch cords t otie together some "collection of modules" rather than creating something dedicated ... such as the way the Moog Sub 37 and the Sub Phatty do ... just some "collection" of circuits bundled together to create a modulation section. The "just some collection of modules" phrase was a poor choice of words on my part.
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Post by Eric the Red » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:12 pm

@Rex - That makes sense about the "Collection of Modules" comment :) The panels that I am making are grouping the "Collections of Modules" together. Next week i'll be working on the Drum Sequencers, which are 10-modules all together in one panel, to make it look like "one module"

Tonight I made up a panel design for the Nonlinear Circuits Null A2. This one will be converted from Euro to 5U. It is a 12U module, and in the last section I had some extra space that I filled with 5-mults. I plan on using 4 of them with the clock divider and leaving the 5th one open for whatever clowning i feel like getting up to.

Once all of the panels for the whole system are designed, i'll be placing an aluminium order. Don't want to go and order the metal and then have a bunch of modules end up with different dimensions. I unfortunately do not have the skills nor the tools to cut metal, and I do not want to get into that for this project. Looked into joining the Detroit Maker Shop, but damn that's expensive.

Here is my version of the Null A2 panel - the only thing that I am missing are 3-LED's. I know the areas that they are going in, just not the exact spot or size. Left off for now...anyway, here it is:
Image

Here is the original Euro version:

Image

For the most part, all of the sections are in the exact same spot. Some parts of it needed to be moved around due to how I "tetrised" the parts together. I am not looking forward to all of the wiring on this manually. With it being a conversion from Euro to 5U, all of the connections will be manually wired.
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Post by Rex Coil 7 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:28 pm

I like yours a boatload better! It's far easier on the eyes, and grouping various sections with vertical lines really helps define each stage.

Likey!!

And the stylish cuuuuurrrve of those jacks is a nice touch!
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Post by Eric the Red » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:51 pm

The stylish curve is to fit an LED to the left :hihi:
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Post by Eric the Red » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:12 am

I am one Lucky Ducky. I was thinking that my Null A2 panel was very dense, and I might have placed the Pots/knobs to close together. Made some measurements, check the BOM, and I am super happy that it used the little 9mm pots, because the bigger ones will not fit.
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Post by Eric the Red » Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:48 am

Haven't made much progress on anything recently as I've been sick in bed and school started - I really hope my students stop asking dumb questions this semester.. But, it won't happen.

Anyway... I did clean up the basement workshop a bit. The basement as a whole still needs a ton of work, but it's a start.

Here's the before and after.

Image


Image


Depending on how much free time I have after errands and prepping for class this week, I'll probably fill up,the middle cabinet with components that have been in a box for a few weeks.
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Post by Rex Coil 7 » Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:58 am

Ya' gotta start somewhere! :tu:

Feel better soon. 8-)
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Post by Rex Coil 7 » Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:44 pm

I've PM'd you ... please read it.
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Post by Eric the Red » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:34 am

Some progress has been made:
-Almost Done soldering up all of the Barton Boards, I think that makes up about 1/2 the modules in the system
-Prepping for the next mass invasion of parts. Going through the build guides/parts list for the Oakley Boards to see what I need. Going through the Vocoder build guides for the parts lists there...

Buying parts in massive bulk is the way to go - I have most of what I need already which is great, and for the stuff I don’t? Partsa list called for 10-resistors? I think I am going to order 150...

Also hooked up the workshop with a magnifying light thingy - working with a magnifier is very different, but very helpful.

-Eric
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Post by Dave Peck » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:32 pm

Eric the Red wrote: Is this all that I need to make them:
--Cable: https://www.performanceaudio.com/item/c ... gK4O_D_BwE

You don't need to spend anywhere near that much on decent bulk shielded audio cable. You can get good bulk cable from Belden and ProCo and other manufacturers/ sources for about half that price.

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Post by Eric the Red » Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:03 pm

Thanks Dave!!
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