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Which daw Best for midi Plugins
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Software  
Author Which daw Best for midi Plugins
abhirama
Hi There,

I have reaktor and I am using the same to do much of midi processing but I have logic pro in which I cannot use reaktor as a midi plugin. I also have free third party arp plugins which are not usable with logic.

I know that you can do it in ableton, but i think that ableton is not so great in arrangement section of it. I wanted to know a daw in which you can also use midi fx(like above), your own arps and such. I am happy with Logic but it lacks in this.

I wanted to try Ardour, but wanted to know if it has the above feature. I don't have windows right now to get into fruity loops. Does fl studio have this functionality. I know it is the #1 daw right now. Does reaper have what I am looking for, what about reason?

Thanks,
Abhirama.
PatrickW
I have been using Ableton for 4 years and switched to Reaper last week.
In my opinion, Ableton is somewhat clumsy how the routing (audio and midi) works.
On the other hand, the routing options in Reaper are dazzling.
Until now, I did not find anything I wanted to do in Reaper that was not possible.
A third party ARP and Synth on one track : as far as I can tell, that is not possible in Ableton, in Reaper it is.
In Ableton, you have to put the third party ARP on one track, the Synth on another and do some routing.
In Reaper, you can put both on the same track : much more elegant and simple.
abhirama
Could you speak more on this please... Amazing ... I might be looking for this.....


PatrickW wrote:
I have been using Ableton for 4 years and switched to Reaper last week.
In my opinion, Ableton is somewhat clumsy how the routing (audio and midi) works.
On the other hand, the routing options in Reaper are dazzling.
Until now, I did not find anything I wanted to do in Reaper that was not possible.
A third party ARP and Synth on one track : as far as I can tell, that is not possible in Ableton, in Reaper it is.
In Ableton, you have to put the third party ARP on one track, the Synth on another and do some routing.
In Reaper, you can put both on the same track : much more elegant and simple.
PatrickW
abhirama wrote:
Could you speak more on this please... Amazing ... I might be looking for this.....


PatrickW wrote:
I have been using Ableton for 4 years and switched to Reaper last week.
In my opinion, Ableton is somewhat clumsy how the routing (audio and midi) works.
On the other hand, the routing options in Reaper are dazzling.
Until now, I did not find anything I wanted to do in Reaper that was not possible.
A third party ARP and Synth on one track : as far as I can tell, that is not possible in Ableton, in Reaper it is.
In Ableton, you have to put the third party ARP on one track, the Synth on another and do some routing.
In Reaper, you can put both on the same track : much more elegant and simple.


Since I'm using Reaper for less than one week, I'm hardly an expert grin
But as far as I know, you can put multiple midi-instruments on one track.
One instrument can pass the midi stream to the next one.
So you can basically put two synth-plugins on one track and both will play according to the same midi information.
Or put an ARP and then a synth on that track.
In Ableton, it is not possible to put two synths on the same track.
You have to copy the midi information to the next channel to get the second synth playing.
Also the routing of audio is a lot easier in Reaper than Ableton.
For example, sending audio to thirdparty plugins for sidechaining is in Reaper more flexible than in Ableton.

On the other hand, if you use Max for Live in Ableton, there are a lot of possibilities, but then you need the version of Ableton that includes MFL and it can get complicated.

I have tried Bitwig for only a few hours.
That platform is extremely powerful concerning control of midi and audio data.
You can control nearly every knob of every plugin with build in modulators and you can capture audio everywhere in an audio chain and send it to somewhere else.
I found Reaper easier on the eyes and easier to keep an overview over the routing than Bitwig.
nostalghia
Cubase 9 (and most older versions) has a wide variety of MIDI plug ins (they refer to these as "MIDI Effects"). Note that the Artist and Pro versions have these included, the entry level version "Elements" does not. Cubase also has very powerful MIDI editing tools.



Click links on right for details on features of each effect. The "Arpache" effects are the arpeggiators.
Cubase MIDI Effects
TheRosskonian
PatrickW wrote:
abhirama wrote:
Could you speak more on this please... Amazing ... I might be looking for this.....


PatrickW wrote:
I have been using Ableton for 4 years and switched to Reaper last week.
In my opinion, Ableton is somewhat clumsy how the routing (audio and midi) works.
On the other hand, the routing options in Reaper are dazzling.
Until now, I did not find anything I wanted to do in Reaper that was not possible.
A third party ARP and Synth on one track : as far as I can tell, that is not possible in Ableton, in Reaper it is.
In Ableton, you have to put the third party ARP on one track, the Synth on another and do some routing.
In Reaper, you can put both on the same track : much more elegant and simple.


Since I'm using Reaper for less than one week, I'm hardly an expert grin
But as far as I know, you can put multiple midi-instruments on one track.
One instrument can pass the midi stream to the next one.
So you can basically put two synth-plugins on one track and both will play according to the same midi information.
Or put an ARP and then a synth on that track.
In Ableton, it is not possible to put two synths on the same track.
You have to copy the midi information to the next channel to get the second synth playing.
Also the routing of audio is a lot easier in Reaper than Ableton.
For example, sending audio to thirdparty plugins for sidechaining is in Reaper more flexible than in Ableton.

On the other hand, if you use Max for Live in Ableton, there are a lot of possibilities, but then you need the version of Ableton that includes MFL and it can get complicated.

I have tried Bitwig for only a few hours.
That platform is extremely powerful concerning control of midi and audio data.
You can control nearly every knob of every plugin with build in modulators and you can capture audio everywhere in an audio chain and send it to somewhere else.
I found Reaper easier on the eyes and easier to keep an overview over the routing than Bitwig.


Do not forget you can route MIDI as well as audio. If you wanted to, you could have the arppegiator on one track and have it sent out to different tracks (each with their own plug-ins) simultaniously.

Would you care to expand on Bitwig vs Reaper? I have only used Reaper for years and everything you said Bitwig can do, I already know how to do in Reaper.
abhirama
TheRosskonian wrote:


Would you care to expand on Bitwig vs Reaper? I have only used Reaper for years and everything you said Bitwig can do, I already know how to do in Reaper.


This answer was nice. helped me clear somethings in my mind.
PatrickW
TheRosskonian wrote:
PatrickW wrote:
abhirama wrote:
Could you speak more on this please... Amazing ... I might be looking for this.....


PatrickW wrote:
I have been using Ableton for 4 years and switched to Reaper last week.
In my opinion, Ableton is somewhat clumsy how the routing (audio and midi) works.
On the other hand, the routing options in Reaper are dazzling.
Until now, I did not find anything I wanted to do in Reaper that was not possible.
A third party ARP and Synth on one track : as far as I can tell, that is not possible in Ableton, in Reaper it is.
In Ableton, you have to put the third party ARP on one track, the Synth on another and do some routing.
In Reaper, you can put both on the same track : much more elegant and simple.


Since I'm using Reaper for less than one week, I'm hardly an expert grin
But as far as I know, you can put multiple midi-instruments on one track.
One instrument can pass the midi stream to the next one.
So you can basically put two synth-plugins on one track and both will play according to the same midi information.
Or put an ARP and then a synth on that track.
In Ableton, it is not possible to put two synths on the same track.
You have to copy the midi information to the next channel to get the second synth playing.
Also the routing of audio is a lot easier in Reaper than Ableton.
For example, sending audio to thirdparty plugins for sidechaining is in Reaper more flexible than in Ableton.

On the other hand, if you use Max for Live in Ableton, there are a lot of possibilities, but then you need the version of Ableton that includes MFL and it can get complicated.

I have tried Bitwig for only a few hours.
That platform is extremely powerful concerning control of midi and audio data.
You can control nearly every knob of every plugin with build in modulators and you can capture audio everywhere in an audio chain and send it to somewhere else.
I found Reaper easier on the eyes and easier to keep an overview over the routing than Bitwig.


Do not forget you can route MIDI as well as audio. If you wanted to, you could have the arppegiator on one track and have it sent out to different tracks (each with their own plug-ins) simultaniously.

Would you care to expand on Bitwig vs Reaper? I have only used Reaper for years and everything you said Bitwig can do, I already know how to do in Reaper.


As said, I have only a few hours experience with Bitwig and a few days with Reaper.
My impression was that both are extremely powerful regarding routing of audio and midi.
But as far as I can tell, in Reaper it is much simpler to keep an overview over the routing.
The Reaper routing matrix is brilliant !
In Bitwig, I can see how you can lose your overview fast if you are not careful.
Also as said, I find Bitwig harder on the eyes.
And I like the open community around Reaper.
That are a few reasons why I chose Reaper over Bitwig.
Luap
Is there something wrong with Logic X's own midi fx plugins? Many of them are very good in my opinion. You even get the Scripter which you can program to do anything you like.
dpcoffin
Luap wrote:
Is there something wrong with Logic X's own midi fx plugins? Many of them are very good in my opinion. You even get the Scripter which you can program to do anything you like.


I agree that Logic's own MIDI FX are really excellent, esp. since they added easy assignment to any automatable parameter in other devices. And there are quite a few exceptional 3rd-party devices that come as MIDI FX. But until, as long promised, they fix AUs so they can directly transmit MIDI, Logic will remain crippled compared to all the other DAWs mentioned here, most of which have had this basic functionality since they were first created. WHY AU's don't (nor does Reason support MIDI out from hosted VSTs, TOO bad!) remains a very annoying mystery.

Still, I love Logic and it's my main DAW, too. I use Reaktor (my unchallenged number-one favorite audio/MIDI software since forever) almost always in stand-alone mode for maximum flexibility and ease of access to its interface, and often send MIDI from it directly into Logic via IAC. For my purposes and usual workflows, this works really well, though I always hear about latency problems from others when I suggest this; hasn't bothered me yet. In the same way, I also use Live to host MIDI generating VSTs, esp. Kontakt, and to access the endless, and endlessly amazing, Max4Live devices so I can drive Logic devices like Sculpture and Alchemy, which works equally well either via IAC or by simply recording and exporting MIDI files. Same thing with Reason, especially love its vast CV power, pretty easily converted to MIDI and also accessible via IAC.

None of this keeps me from hating that AU limitation, nor from hovering indecisively over the buy button for Reaper every so often (thanks for sending me back to that experience once again:); haven't hit it yet even though it's an amazing bargain compared to Live Studio or Reason. I bought Live and Reason many years ago so keeping them updated isn't so bad, but springing for either new (or the very tempting Bitwig2.2) would be much harder in my current (retired) situation.

So, I live in hope that the AU fix WILL eventually arrive.
BeatAboutTheHead
Cthulhu is awesome. Especially for ppl whk cant play keys. And its reasonable priced.
abhirama
I totally agree with this situation. In fact I have reaktor too, and I think i also know you from the reaktor facebook group.

Anyway so from your words i can deduce that We need to have other daws to over come this limitation. I definitely want to know what is IAC.

dpcoffin wrote:


I agree that Logic's own MIDI FX are really excellent, esp. since they added easy assignment to any automatable parameter in other devices. And there are quite a few exceptional 3rd-party devices that come as MIDI FX. But until, as long promised, they fix AUs so they can directly transmit MIDI, Logic will remain crippled compared to all the other DAWs mentioned here, most of which have had this basic functionality since they were first created. WHY AU's don't (nor does Reason support MIDI out from hosted VSTs, TOO bad!) remains a very annoying mystery.

Still, I love Logic and it's my main DAW, too. I use Reaktor (my unchallenged number-one favorite audio/MIDI software since forever) almost always in stand-alone mode for maximum flexibility and ease of access to its interface, and often send MIDI from it directly into Logic via IAC. For my purposes and usual workflows, this works really well, though I always hear about latency problems from others when I suggest this; hasn't bothered me yet. In the same way, I also use Live to host MIDI generating VSTs, esp. Kontakt, and to access the endless, and endlessly amazing, Max4Live devices so I can drive Logic devices like Sculpture and Alchemy, which works equally well either via IAC or by simply recording and exporting MIDI files. Same thing with Reason, especially love its vast CV power, pretty easily converted to MIDI and also accessible via IAC.

None of this keeps me from hating that AU limitation, nor from hovering indecisively over the buy button for Reaper every so often (thanks for sending me back to that experience once again:); haven't hit it yet even though it's an amazing bargain compared to Live Studio or Reason. I bought Live and Reason many years ago so keeping them updated isn't so bad, but springing for either new (or the very tempting Bitwig2.2) would be much harder in my current (retired) situation.

So, I live in hope that the AU fix WILL eventually arrive.
dpcoffin
Basically, yes; to take advantage of plugins that produce MIDI data but don't offer MIDI FX AUs, we need to use their vst versions in other software. Or, as with Reaktor and some others, use them as stand-alone apps and send the MIDI out to Logic via IAC.

IAC Driver info

Here's a really cool free app for generating and controlling Euclidean and other interesting beat types, one of my favorites for running along-side Logic (and sending to Reaktor too, for that matter):

Xronomorph
Opcode
I own and am fluent in Ableton, Bitwig, and REAPER. Additionally, I have used and am also fluent in FL Studio, and Cubase.

With that said, REAPER is now my main DAW -- it's a hidden gem.

All of the aforementioned DAW's have some sort of limitations, except REAPER. With REAPER you can route anything to anything, control any parameter with any other parameter, script your own plugins (JSFX), write python modules, customize and chain mouse actions or keyboard hotkeys, or customize the look and feel to be as simple or as beautiful as you want (the IMPERIAL theme!)

If there is something you want REAPER to do, chances are someone has already made an 'Action' for it, which you can download via ReaPack (inside REAPER).

The amount of customization possible is mind boggling. You can customize every key, and shortcut to be how you want. What's amazing is, I learned it all within a few days, thanks to the free tutorial videos on REAPER's website.

I also use it with Reaktor. You should give it a shot smile
dpcoffin
Opcode wrote:
I own and am fluent in Ableton, Bitwig, and REAPER. Additionally, I have used and am also fluent in FL Studio, and Cubase.

With that said, REAPER is now my main DAW -- it's a hidden gem.

All of the aforementioned DAW's have some sort of limitations, except REAPER. With REAPER you can route anything to anything, control any parameter with any other parameter, script your own plugins (JSFX), write python modules, customize and chain mouse actions or keyboard hotkeys, or customize the look and feel to be as simple or as beautiful as you want (the IMPERIAL theme!)

If there is something you want REAPER to do, chances are someone has already made an 'Action' for it, which you can download via ReaPack (inside REAPER).

The amount of customization possible is mind boggling. You can customize every key, and shortcut to be how you want. What's amazing is, I learned it all within a few days, thanks to the free tutorial videos on REAPER's website.

I also use it with Reaktor. You should give it a shot :)


Not the OP, but you're talking to me, too. Will do, thanks!
abhirama
Right now I am finding FL studio quick to make tracks, when i am little advanced in making tracks i think I will come to reaper. I also feel that there are not many synths in reaper.... What say? Will I need to rely completely on my reaktor stuff and serum?(Which I can do but will take time).

Opcode wrote:
I own and am fluent in Ableton, Bitwig, and REAPER. Additionally, I have used and am also fluent in FL Studio, and Cubase.

With that said, REAPER is now my main DAW -- it's a hidden gem.

All of the aforementioned DAW's have some sort of limitations, except REAPER. With REAPER you can route anything to anything, control any parameter with any other parameter, script your own plugins (JSFX), write python modules, customize and chain mouse actions or keyboard hotkeys, or customize the look and feel to be as simple or as beautiful as you want (the IMPERIAL theme!)

If there is something you want REAPER to do, chances are someone has already made an 'Action' for it, which you can download via ReaPack (inside REAPER).

The amount of customization possible is mind boggling. You can customize every key, and shortcut to be how you want. What's amazing is, I learned it all within a few days, thanks to the free tutorial videos on REAPER's website.

I also use it with Reaktor. You should give it a shot smile
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