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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

vocal sample clearance
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Production Techniques  
Author vocal sample clearance
slumberjack
hi folks

got some issues with a labelhead. done a mix with midway's classic 'set it out' vocals in it. now it's the question for copyright infringement.

we're talking very small scale bandcamp underground minimal/techno/housey label. what's your opinion on this? my gut feeling is telling me that's not a problem at all.

if you need a glimpse: https://soundcloud.com/agent_folder/slumberjack-ander-brown-out-agent- folderzh-sunday-930pm-slumberdub/s-RRmuB

btw i wrote donald (the singer) on facebook as i saw he's got a profile there.
ngarjuna
In 2017 it would be pretty foolish for a label to release uncleared samples. Yes, even a "very small scale bandcamp underground minimal/techno/housey" label

If you have to use samples, clear them. If you can't justify clearing your samples find alternatives. "Just screw it" may work for self-releases but if this label has any aims at a future or plans to make any attempt to grow it would be a terrible move to have liability like that just hanging out waiting for the business to come to fruition.
PhineasFreak
fuck it - bootleg release with no clearance - if the track blows up then you can always worry about getting clearance then. if you get a cease and desist order in the meantime then i guess you have to pull the track or get clearance after all, but you might get away without it...

[bad advice but its what i do all the frikken time and i NEVER get any hassle, especially when things are done under the guise of remixes!]
Navs
Do you expect some reward for your work? It is unreasonable for the singer to expect to get recompense for their work on your track?
slumberjack
Navs wrote:
Do you expect some reward for your work? It is unreasonable for the singer to expect to get recompense for their work on your track?


no reward. i just try to express myself and if i got the feeling that i did translate my intentions the way i ment it, i don't care if actually anybody likes it but me. i played a lot and had a bit of success a few years ago but got back to the point where my creativity is here to my life, my days, my time before i give a sh*t about cash, mass appeal or who's down with it.
to put it in other words: the only reward i'm after will be me liking what i made some time after it's done.

i mean i wouldn't mind to pay the singer some cash for using his recording. it would be the same as the rent a specific instrument for a song. but i prefer a one-off unless a song would get some airplay. i mean 1000 downloads would be like 1000$ for the label, the host and the artists. so then some reward for the sampled singer would be fair enough. but with my taste of music it's going to be more like 100 dl's max...
Hainbach
Well, now that you already talked to the singer you are on your way of clearing it. He might not own all the rights though, so there could be other parties involved.
jonbstevens
Perhaps you could call someone who does music clearances for a living and get their expert opinion?
Navs
slumberjack wrote:
Navs wrote:
Do you expect some reward for your work? It is unreasonable for the singer to expect to get recompense for their work on your track?


no reward. i just try to express myself and if i got the feeling that i did translate my intentions the way i ment it, i don't care if actually anybody likes it but me. i played a lot and had a bit of success a few years ago but got back to the point where my creativity is here to my life, my days, my time before i give a sh*t about cash, mass appeal or who's down with it.
to put it in other words: the only reward i'm after will be me liking what i made some time after it's done.

i mean i wouldn't mind to pay the singer some cash for using his recording. it would be the same as the rent a specific instrument for a song. but i prefer a one-off unless a song would get some airplay. i mean 1000 downloads would be like 1000$ for the label, the host and the artists. so then some reward for the sampled singer would be fair enough. but with my taste of music it's going to be more like 100 dl's max...


That's fair enough, Slumberjack. Note that I was careful not to use the word money. 'Reward' could also mean that the label likes your work enough to put it out and promote it. There is value in that.

I like the idea of sorting something out with the singer directly but, you're right, unfortunately that's not the way the law on this is balanced.
Michael O.
I think Slumberjack is on the right track to clearing the sample, but I want to make clear for anyone looking to this thread for reference in the future that any sample use, regardless of length or content, must be cleared with all applicable rights holders (of which there may be multiples). In other words, sampling is not generally regarded as fair use.

It's not the same as recording a cover of a song, where there's a standard compulsary rate; for samples, an agreement must be reached by the involved parties, at the discretion of the rights holders. Additionally, there is something in effect called the Berne Convention, an international agreement that copyrights held by an entity in any country must be recognized by any other country.
slumberjack
since i found out yesterday that it will be a free download i don't see any problem when i include their name into the title.

actually i contacted to label too but no answer wether from them nor the artist.
djassassin
Nice,thanks for sharing!
Estes
Sali

First the label needs to take care of this issue not you. If you do the sample clearance you can release it on your own or just not with this label. I'ts just so unprofessional - just don't work with labels that are not willing to do the job that they have to do.

It's a question of moral wether you try to contact the artist or the one that holds the rights. Usually artist don't get money so it's often a good way to make a deal directly with the artist.
If you are struggling with this issue you can call Suisa (Society for musical performing and mechanical reproduction rights) and ask them if they can help you finding the rightholder (often producer & label). In theory they should. However if you are anyway in contact with the artist just talk to him. But if you make a deal with him.

If you make an agreement for such a purpose (we often did) we paid about 100-150 bucks eventhough we didn't saw a lot of money. And maybe also make sure they got the credits. This can sometimes be a win win situation. Sometimes if you use a sample you can consider call it a Remix and maybe gain some extra attention (or he will). just sayin if you do a good job with the clearance you and the artist maybe will be rewarded somehow someday.

The most important thing is to remember all artists want a reward someday somehow - it's what you would like to expect when someone samples a track of you...
slumberjack
Estes wrote:
Sali

First the label needs to take care of this issue not you. If you do the sample clearance you can release it on your own or just not with this label. I'ts just so unprofessional - just don't work with labels that are not willing to do the job that they have to do.

It's a question of moral wether you try to contact the artist or the one that holds the rights. Usually artist don't get money so it's often a good way to make a deal directly with the artist.
If you are struggling with this issue you can call Suisa (Society for musical performing and mechanical reproduction rights) and ask them if they can help you finding the rightholder (often producer & label). In theory they should. However if you are anyway in contact with the artist just talk to him. But if you make a deal with him.

If you make an agreement for such a purpose (we often did) we paid about 100-150 bucks eventhough we didn't saw a lot of money. And maybe also make sure they got the credits. This can sometimes be a win win situation. Sometimes if you use a sample you can consider call it a Remix and maybe gain some extra attention (or he will). just sayin if you do a good job with the clearance you and the artist maybe will be rewarded somehow someday.

The most important thing is to remember all artists want a reward someday somehow - it's what you would like to expect when someone samples a track of you...


one from the hood! thx...

i'm kinda used to discogs so i found out the contact for europe inquiries pretty quick. but no response yet.

but you're completly right that i should consider somehow not to work with the label anymore in future. it's run by a really good friend - so i'm hestitating - but yeah there is no professional mastering included too (and i wouldn't mind to put 100.- up for a track, as i did btw on my own imprint, even for a netlabel i.e. a free download to get mastered in perfect room. we all got modes in our studios...)
slumberjack
out now
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