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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Potential System
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> 5U Format Modules  
Author Potential System
southphillysynths
Hi everyone!

I've been active on the forum for a good long while now and haven't made an appearance on this side.

I've got a pretty large euro system that I am still building up of mostly doepfer stuff. I have a lot of power with the doepfer stuff and might have some redundant functionality over there. I mostly make drone music, and sometimes sequence using random sources through quantizers.

Might have some 5U .COM rackmount frames coming soon and wanted to get some opinions from some more experience wigglers! screaming goo yo


I have been lucky enough to have a few different versions of the benjolin and have heard the twinpeak filter from Mr. Hordijk. I think his designs are the most original and incredible sounding modern synth, I am now lusting for a few of his panels more than buchla, serge, synthi, wiard 300 etc.


MY GOAL WITH 5U:

build a good amount of DIY and or .COM modules and save for two Hordijk panels (osc HRM, ENV, twinpeak) (OSC SYNC, Rungler, 24db filter or other)

I will be using this alongside a euro system but I don't feel that I will really want to interface them that often.

Building this 5U system will be a pretty long term goal...

Would it be better to DIY in MU or MOTM, how plentiful are MU kits? Does Hordijk stuff run on 15V and is MU compatible?


Any pointers are greatly appreciated!! we're not worthy
JohnLRice
Welcome to 5U, southphillysynths w00t

Quote:
Would it be better to DIY in MU or MOTM, how plentiful are MU kits?
For the longest time it was much better to do MOTM if you wanted to DIY, mainly because panels were easier to make and/or much more plentiful to buy, but I think lately there are quite a few MU panels available too and many new designs and conversions from euro to 5U are only happening in MU format, not MOTM. Since you might have some .COM rackmount frames coming, and since MOTM mounting rails are getting harder to find, going MU might make more sense than MOTM?

Quote:
Does Hordijk stuff run on 15V and is MU compatible?
Yes and yes! Hordijk modules look more like MOTM modules at a glance (pretty much MOTM style panel construction, graphics and knobs) but his panels are MU widths with MU mounting holes.

For DIY take a look through the following for starters:
http://synthcube.com/cart/formats/dotcom-mu
http://synthcube.com/cart/formats/motm
http://www.oakleysound.com/projects.htm
Flareless
Lots of great 5U modules out there. You'll find many more PCBs than full kits.

Check out ModularAddict.com and SynthCube.com

Panel choice really is the big concern because everything else is the same (except the power connector but there are adapters for that). MOTM is nice because you can whip up a design with Front Panel Express software and have the panel cut for you to spec.

Dotcom involves some type of process like silkscreen or electro-somethingorother. You have to either have access to these services or be able to DIY them. Fortunately silkscreen isn't too difficult.
Huba-Swift
Another DIY option is Yusynth. http://yusynth.net/Modular/index_en.html
and RE: Synthesis makes really nice MU yusynth panels http://www.resynthesis.shop/epages/zuunneamm4zd.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/ Shops/zuunneamm4zd/Categories/Panels-1/Page__Category

Welcome to 5U!
Neovintage
southphillysynths wrote:

I have been lucky enough to have a few different versions of the benjolin and have heard the twinpeak filter from Mr. Hordijk. I think his designs are the most original and incredible sounding modern synth, I am now lusting for a few of his panels more than buchla, serge, synthi, wiard 300 etc.


MY GOAL WITH 5U:

build a good amount of DIY and or .COM modules and save for two Hordijk panels (osc HRM, ENV, twinpeak) (OSC SYNC, Rungler, 24db filter or other)

I will be using this alongside a euro system but I don't feel that I will really want to interface them that often.

Building this 5U system will be a pretty long term goal...

Would it be better to DIY in MU or MOTM, how plentiful are MU kits? Does Hordijk stuff run on 15V and is MU compatible?


Any pointers are greatly appreciated!! we're not worthy


Agree. Rob's instruments are amazing. I don't know what kind of system in DIY or dotcom you're looking for but if you want Hordijk I suggest you to wait the time (18 months now I guess) and order a complete system.
During this time you can save money or sell stuffs but I can guarantee you that this is an all instrument/system. You can of course have one or two panels and interact with other gear but the philosophy and the working flow of the Hordijk modules are impressive within a complete system. If I would try to have that with dotcom it would take a lot of modules (maybe the double,... except for the last ++ modules).
The Hordijk system is also compact and easily transportable. My 2 cts.
gregae
deleted
ba1
Neovintage wrote:
southphillysynths wrote:

I have been lucky enough to have a few different versions of the benjolin and have heard the twinpeak filter from Mr. Hordijk. I think his designs are the most original and incredible sounding modern synth, I am now lusting for a few of his panels more than buchla, serge, synthi, wiard 300 etc.


MY GOAL WITH 5U:

build a good amount of DIY and or .COM modules and save for two Hordijk panels (osc HRM, ENV, twinpeak) (OSC SYNC, Rungler, 24db filter or other)

I will be using this alongside a euro system but I don't feel that I will really want to interface them that often.

Building this 5U system will be a pretty long term goal...

Would it be better to DIY in MU or MOTM, how plentiful are MU kits? Does Hordijk stuff run on 15V and is MU compatible?


Any pointers are greatly appreciated!! we're not worthy


Agree. Rob's instruments are amazing. I don't know what kind of system in DIY or dotcom you're looking for but if you want Hordijk I suggest you to wait the time (18 months now I guess) and order a complete system.
During this time you can save money or sell stuffs but I can guarantee you that this is an all instrument/system. You can of course have one or two panels and interact with other gear but the philosophy and the working flow of the Hordijk modules are impressive within a complete system. If I would try to have that with dotcom it would take a lot of modules (maybe the double,... except for the last ++ modules).
The Hordijk system is also compact and easily transportable. My 2 cts.


I agree with Neovintage 100%. I have a 60 U MU system and a four panel Hordijk system parked side by side. I seldom mix the two. The Hordijk is really it's own thing. It would be a shame to not get a full system. I had the euro Benjolin. It's cool, but nowhere near the build quality or sophistication of Rob's full systems. If you were going to mix the Hordijk with something else, Buchla and Serge might be a better fit.

Also, You'd have to order Rob's modules specifically with a Dotcom power connector. They can have a little trouble powering up on a Dotcom power supply and might require you to power up your system more than once.
southphillysynths
Thank you all for the input!

I may or may not aspire for a complete hordijk system, but that will be long down the road. I should at least mess with the benjolin and twin peak in eurorack first...

Thank you for the input on Yusynth everyone, looks like amazing stuff especially the range of filters. If I go to DIY I will surely go for some of that stuff!
ppkstat
You should probably go with MU since the range in general is greater there.

However, having a MOTM built exclusively by me I feel I should say a couple of things in defense of the format. The FPE option is a lifesaver when designing custom panels. The whole process is easier and much quicker than MU (however that comes at a cost). I much prefer the quality of the engraved panel as well as the black minimal look. It is also integrated in racks much easier.

JohnLRice wrote:
...and many new designs and conversions from euro to 5U are only happening in MU format, not MOTM.


I am sure John here refers to ready-made conversions by others which is true. Otherwise if you're doing it yourself MOTM is a good format for euro ports. Below is MI Yarns I am working at the moment and when it is ready, I promise you, it is going to look completely 5U.

DrReverendSeance
ppkstat wrote:
You should probably go with MU since the range in general is greater there.

However, having a MOTM built exclusively by me I feel I should say a couple of things in defense of the format. The FPE option is a lifesaver when designing custom panels. The whole process is easier and much quicker than MU (however that comes at a cost). I much prefer the quality of the engraved panel as well as the black minimal look. It is also integrated in racks much easier.

JohnLRice wrote:
...and many new designs and conversions from euro to 5U are only happening in MU format, not MOTM.


I am sure John here refers to ready-made conversions by others which is true. Otherwise if you're doing it yourself MOTM is a good format for euro ports. Below is MI Yarns I am working at the moment and when it is ready, I promise you, it is going to look completely 5U.



I agree with ppkstat’s comments here. Also, Synthcube has been releasing more and more MOTM format panels and kits for DIY projects and are committed to the MOTM format.

Right now my system is 100% MOTM, but I am tempted to add rows of 5U as time goes on.
megaohm
ppkstat makes great points.
I don't like getting MU panels made but MOTM panels are easy from FPE.
You can make FPE significantly cheaper by using plot files (.PLT) for any lines on the panel (dials, etc). Use one .plt file for the entire panel.
A typical 2U width panel usually costs me $50-$60.

Another point that I'm not sure was raised yet is price.
I have a regular 5U format customer and some of the used deals he gets in this format are amazing. Sometimes less than the actual parts cost to build it!
MOTM modules are high quality, too, and will likely last and function well for your entire life.
southphillysynths
thanks again for more input!

I have seen crazy deals on .COM stuff which is why I'm temped to go into MU. It is a shame that they have different panels though, it does seem that MOTM panels are a lot easier to make...

MOTM does seem like a more scarce format in that there are people who got in early and built up huge systems, but it doesn't seem that those modules trade often if ever. It seems the only way to get most modules it DIY...
DrReverendSeance
FWIW Michael Marsh put a very large MOTM system for sale on the 5U Facebook page https://m.facebook.com/groups/372807466190436?view=info
southphillysynths
DrReverendSeance wrote:
FWIW Michael Marsh put a very large MOTM system for sale on the 5U Facebook page https://m.facebook.com/groups/372807466190436?view=info


Not on facebook, but thanks for the info!
southphillysynths
Neovintage wrote:


Agree. Rob's instruments are amazing. I don't know what kind of system in DIY or dotcom you're looking for but if you want Hordijk I suggest you to wait the time (18 months now I guess) and order a complete system.
During this time you can save money or sell stuffs but I can guarantee you that this is an all instrument/system. You can of course have one or two panels and interact with other gear but the philosophy and the working flow of the Hordijk modules are impressive within a complete system. If I would try to have that with dotcom it would take a lot of modules (maybe the double,... except for the last ++ modules).
The Hordijk system is also compact and easily transportable. My 2 cts.


I'm not really trying to replicate Hordijk stuff, I know enough about his designs that this would be virtually impossible.

I only meant that maybe getting a few panels of his and supplementing it with some DIY and .COM stuff for extra utilities etc.
southphillysynths
Here's an idea of a system.

I hope to DIY a few of the yusynth filters (ARP, Minimoog, EMS) so I may or may not put them in because 3 filters seems like a lot for this small system.


any input is greatly appreciated!! we're not worthy

[/img]
southphillysynths
hmmm.....
Dave Peck
At first it may look like you need more VCAs, but those Hordijk modules all have VCAs built into them so you may be good there. But I think you could really use at least a couple more simple mixer modules. Also, what's the module at upper right? I don't recognize it.

Lastly, there have been some troubling comments about the Dotcom Envelope++ producing unwanted distortion & HF aliasing noises. You may want to verify this has been fixed before you get one (no such complaints with any other Dotcom modules).
Dr Gris
That upper right module looks like a Triple Low Pass Gate.

//M
southphillysynths
Dave Peck wrote:
At first it may look like you need more VCAs, but those Hordijk modules all have VCAs built into them so you may be good there. But I think you could really use at least a couple more simple mixer modules. Also, what's the module at upper right? I don't recognize it.

Lastly, there have been some troubling comments about the Dotcom Envelope++ producing unwanted distortion & HF aliasing noises. You may want to verify this has been fixed before you get one (no such complaints with any other Dotcom modules).


Interesting I will look into that, where does the distortion come in? when using it for cv? or as a sequencer?

that is a triple lowpass gate, not really sure that I would need it in that system... Also not sure if the ARP filter is needed, I feel like that many filters is a lot for such a small system.

Switching the ARP out for some vcas might be better...
Dave Peck
Yeah I think the triple LPG would be overkill. Better to have more utility & CV stuff, maybe replace the 3LPG with a mixer and maybe a single-width dual LFO module.

And the dual-width SVF (or Arp, or whatever is going to go there) could maybe be a single width filter instead, and the remaining single width could be another utility (another mixer, a signal processor, a triple attenuverter, etc.) or maybe some new kind of module like a phaser or a wave folder.
DrReverendSeance
Maybe a multiple for some of the utility modules?
Rex Coil 7
I have no issues with making FPE panels in MU. However, I'm more about function over fashion, so things like panels that don't look exactly the same are a total non-issue for me. My MU project synth has some bare aluminum panels with engraved lettering, some stock Dot Com panels, some panels that are anodized, and some that are coated with pickup truck bed liner.

So I don't ~get~ the notion that Front Panel Express (that is, engraved machined panels) is "only" for MOTM, and broke 1/16" panels (that is, silk screened lettering on painted or powdercoated panels) are for Dot Com (MU).

To me, a panel is just the thing that the controls are mounted on. And a modular synth is the synth that ~you~ built that is the ultimate collection of the best circuits to get the job done (which is ~why~ it's modular). If you fence yourself in to *just MOTM or *just MU, then you've violated the basic ethos of "modularity". You may as well just go buy a Minimoog (or any other example of synths made of a collection of unchangeable circuits that someone else decided was best) ..... ~ahem~ .... In my almighty opinion, that is.

meh

I feel that large format modulars should be approached from the same angle as Euro .... use what you want, not what "matches".

Unless, of course, completely identical type faces, panel construction, knob styles, jack sizes, and "shade of black" is why you like large format modular synths. If that's the case .... do ~that~ in the finest, most sublime, sophisticated manner that you can tackle.

At the end of the day, it's all about what YOU want .... The End.

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