Klein Bottle pedal looper, mixer - crazy

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soundinett
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Klein Bottle pedal looper, mixer - crazy

Post by soundinett » Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:46 pm



This is a great concept.
(Although I´m a bit disappointed by the Knobs presentation)
Last edited by soundinett on Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:59 am, edited 2 times in total.

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sduck
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Post by sduck » Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:00 am

Yes, I watched the knobs video last night. It took me way too long to figure out what the pedal was all about, but once I got it, it makes sense. Seems very useful, or something like that.

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soundinett
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Post by soundinett » Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:07 am

Í´ll go for Klein Bottle.

Love devices that break the alltime serial pedal chain, i.g. Dwarfcraft Loop Mangler , Pigronix Keymaster or the incredible 4ms Bendmatrix. They allow parallel and/or serial chaining of two or more pedals and support a modular paradigm in the pedal world.

Klein Bottle also supports that paradigm. 3 pedals interconnected in different ways. Great for surprising or self evolving soundscapes.
Some CV in/out would be nice.

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GovernorSilver
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Post by GovernorSilver » Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:23 pm

Looks like a viable solution for pedal owners who don't want to get a mixer with 3 or more aux sends. The feedback stuff and filters are a nice touch.

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adolfgottmann
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Post by adolfgottmann » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:02 am

Watched the videos in a hurry, so I'm not 100% shure, but I think a matrix mixer would do the same tricks (?)

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GovernorSilver
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Post by GovernorSilver » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:19 pm

adolfgottmann wrote:Watched the videos in a hurry, so I'm not 100% shure, but I think a matrix mixer would do the same tricks (?)
Any mixer with at least 3 aux sends, with individual level controls for each aux send on each channel - at least for the feedback part. You would of course use up at least 3 mixer inputs, because the output of each aux chain would go to a mixer input instead of an aux return, in order to be able to send its signal out to another aux bus.

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scozbor
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Post by scozbor » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:12 pm

DAMN I missed the kickstarter...
Wish I had seen this earlier - looks amazing!!!

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Post by Gripp » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:31 am

I'm in for a DIY kit :banana:

Good that the goal for shipping those are in May.
I've got a new neck that needs to meet my strat, the same strat wanting other pickups and possibly another bridge, a bunch of other DIY pedals and a pedalboard that needs to be built...

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Post by notjoesuthers » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:20 am

If only I had the space on my pedalboard to fit one of these...

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GGW
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Post by GGW » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:21 pm

It's doing some interesting things but, as adolfgottmann says above, it's a 3X3 matrix mixer.

Slothrop
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Post by Slothrop » Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:15 am

So, has anyone else got one of these?

Slightly sad news is that VFE as a company is going on indefinite hiatus for family reasons, so they aren't going to be producing any more pedals. Good news is that they've still got stock of the Klein Bottle up for sale on their Reverb shop.

Anyway, mine arrived on Monday and first impressions are that it's pretty great. I basically got it to play around with multiple delay / looper type pedals, looping, mangling and resampling drones and noises, and it does that to a T. It also seems to be able to do no-input noise via feedback loops, although I haven't played around with that enough to work out how usable / controllable it is. It might be overkill if you just want to run pedals in parallel, though, now there's an EHX thing that does that for less money.

The only drawback is that the per channel filters only affect the main input, and not the full mix that goes to the send - for my purposes, I'd far rather they were immediately before the send or immediately after the return. For people who have the DIY kit - have you got any idea how hard would this be to mod? (A partial workaround for this is to use one of the returns for the instrument input and the instrument input for one of the returns, but that's frankly too mindbending to be practical...)

On mixers - genuine question, what are some compact options with 3+ sends on a tight budget? And aren't you going to have to worry about instrument vs line levels? I mean, I can see that the Klein Bottle is functionally equivalent to a 3x3 matrix mixer, but I haven't seen a practical alternative that pedal users could just plug into for less money...

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soundinett
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Post by soundinett » Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:35 am

Patchulator 8000 is a good inexpensive alternative.

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Post by Technologear? » Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:12 pm

Slothrop wrote: On mixers - genuine question, what are some compact options with 3+ sends on a tight budget? And aren't you going to have to worry about instrument vs line levels? I mean, I can see that the Klein Bottle is functionally equivalent to a 3x3 matrix mixer, but I haven't seen a practical alternative that pedal users could just plug into for less money...
I look at that pedal and think "why only 1 input"?

Once you conceptually shift your mindset from 'instrument + pedals' to 'everything connected and routed through my mixer' it gets more fun. Why shouldn't a guitar be routed through a mixer, then onwards through fx?

I've found it hard learning about aux sends and feedback loops because I assumed I should use Aux Returns - returning fx into other channels for more routing is super fun. And similarly worried about levels, impedance, blah blah - just connect it all up and go for it, troubleshoot only if you need to (dirty power supplies for my pedals has been my only issue).

Go check out the active Mackie mixer thread over in General. Relevant discussion.

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Post by Slothrop » Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:20 pm

In practice it's four inputs. It's assumed that three of them will be used as part of send/return pairs, but if you wanted to use them completely independently then there'd be nothing stopping you apart from slightly weird ergonomics. From my point of view, though, being send and return to pedals makes sense, because sending and returning to pedals - mostly delays and creative loopers - is precisely what I want to do. Record some string scrapes and muted plucks on a glitchy looper here and run them through a delay there while a bassline bops along somewhere else. Create a feedback loop between these two pedals, capture the sound in a looper over there, return it to one or both of the original pedals for processing while layering more sounds onto the loop. I'm not sure what else I'd do if I had something desk-shaped rather than pedal-shaped?

And even after looking at the 1604 thread I'm not sure that there's a more flexible option there that's comparably cheap and portable?

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