MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index
 FAQ & Terms of UseFAQ & Terms Of Use   Wiggler RadioMW Radio   Muff Wiggler TwitterTwitter   Support the site @ PatreonPatreon 
 SearchSearch   RegisterSign up   Log inLog in 
WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Information
Happy holidays! Please see the year-end funding drive post in the Announcements subforum. Thanks and all my love to you beautiful people.

Drum Tuning Electronic Music
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Production Techniques  
Author Drum Tuning Electronic Music
Berlin2016
Maybe interesting for some of you.
Funky40
Cool thanks !

they tell you since years that Drums should be in tune.
but i never could manage it to get a proper read out on my Guitar tuner for Drumsounds, so i was allways like seriously, i just don't get it

ok, now i know.
has anybody by coincidence links for conversion tables, tune vs. Frequenzy ?
ahh wait, look: http://newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/notes.html

alexander92
Thanks for the share, tuning bassdrums is definitely important. The approach used in the video is somewhat too clinical for me. I can't imagine myself working that way e.g. tuning bassdrums to exact cents.

When I'm trying to tune my bassdrum, I usually do it by ear. You can hear when you've nailed it. For some kicks its kinda hard and I've tried the spectrum analyzer within Ableton. Though I don't feel very confident solely relying on it. Playing a sine wave, as showed in the video, is definitely a good tip. Cheers.
djassassin
Thanks for sharing
Audiokatz
I remain on the fence and think of it as a decision to be made in context. Hannes Bieger's kickdrum also sounded like it was pretty much a bass tone with some sort of click on the top, something with such an defineable tonality has to be tuned I guess but I kind of lost interest when he said he tuned every other percussive element to octaves of 'F'.

The musical context in which the percussive elements were in was pretty much a non-entity and sounded like just a bunch of hits and short single note drones also in 'F'.

Hannes Bieger's other videos have some useful content I find, at least some of them but this was really bizarre esp. when he started talking about key clashes if your drums were in C# major or whatever it was. confused

My own thoughts on this is just to tune what needs tuning and to do it by ear rather than some sort of surgical analysis on tuning a fundamental to the cent level.

Certain genres do opt for kickdrums with a definable tonality and they're often employed as an actual part of the bass pattern. Some types of techno spring to mind as does some forms of minimal but it's not a blanket treatment for sure. I mean a lot of the kicks I have are pretty short in terms of their decay and any sense of tonality is negligeable.

In fact, a lot of times, I have solo'd my kicks and bass and got things working by tuning the kick with semitone cent amounts but with no regard to whether I am tuning it chromatically or not. Without analyzing this process, I'd assume from the process of tuning, I probably have just found a pocket frequency where the bass does not hit and therefore no 'double bass note' issues occur? But in times where this has worked, it hasn't been necessary to try to tune the kick to a specific note within the scale simply because of the short duration of the kick and therefore it hasn't had an obvious tone that jumps out to me.

That said, there has been times where I have tuned the kick as well. I think it was a 909/Jomox style kick which I tuned slightly down to 49hz which is a 'G' note. This was in the context of a track in C minor, tuning it to a 'C' note would have been too low one way and too high the other but the 5th of the scale worked as there was some definable tone to that kick.

I personally consider tuning other drum elements on their own merit. 808 toms and congas I would tune but they're pretty pure tones I guess, percussive stuff with more inharmonic content I pretty much tweak for getting them to sound well within the kit they're in rather than try to chromatically 'correct' them.
Audiokatz
Funky40 wrote:
Cool thanks !

they tell you since years that Drums should be in tune.
but i never could manage it to get a proper read out on my Guitar tuner for Drumsounds, so i was allways like seriously, i just don't get it

ok, now i know.
has anybody by coincidence links for conversion tables, tune vs. Frequenzy ?
ahh wait, look: http://newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/notes.html



I use this one which I find really clear and to the point.

https://pages.mtu.edu/~suits/notefreqs.html
SunRa
Possibly the kick will conflict with the bass if tuned in the same frequency, so, what about tuning it in 5ths or 3rds if in minor etc??
SunRa
SunRa wrote:
Possibly the kick will conflict with the bass if tuned in the same frequency, so, what about tuning it in 5ths or 3rds if in minor etc??


Ignore me, he mentions that in the end.
BendingBus
Funky40 wrote:
but i never could manage it to get a proper read out on my Guitar tuner for Drumsounds, so i was allways like seriously, i just don't get it


He's using a spectrum analyzer, which works.

More precise is something like Peterson's Strobosoft which has a tap tuning function. You set a volume threshold, over which the pitch will be measured (so the analyzer ignores noise, and looks for a peaky frequency to call the pitch, if it can find one). And then you set the number of beats it will average (since with drums, each hit may be a different pitch). It shows you the average pitch every Nth hit.

I could never get tuners to tell me drum pitch until this, it's great. Was tuning a TR-66 with it today. These synthetic resonant-type sounds are sines, and thus have a definite pitch (kick and toms). Snares usually have a pitch too, for the fundamental drum (or two pitches, one for each head), plus noise to simulate the buzzing snares.
Eichburger
I create drum sounds from scratch and for kicks, toms, and snares I've always used filter resonance with the frequency sweeping down with the envelope - I think this is pretty standard.

Does the idea of tuning have any meaning in this context? Would you tune to the sustain level frequency? Saying that there is likely to be little or no sustain. hmmm.....
Emrox
If you use the Spectrum Analyzer in Ableton Live it will show you the note when hovering over the graph - really useful for a quick reference like for drum tuning

I feel like it depends on the right mix of tuning and EQing - tuning right away to have a common ground with other elements and EQing to make sure the tonals are in place and not too soft or strong on the mix

When doing layered drums its a bit tricky sometimes, since you can combine the tonal elements of one drum with the more clicky or noisey parts of another drum - can't recall a specific case, but I think its sufficient to tune the tonal parts in most cases
Futuresound
Eichburger wrote:
I create drum sounds from scratch and for kicks, toms, and snares I've always used filter resonance with the frequency sweeping down with the envelope - I think this is pretty standard.

Does the idea of tuning have any meaning in this context? Would you tune to the sustain level frequency? Saying that there is likely to be little or no sustain. hmmm.....


Hmmm, I'd like to hear some opinions on this too.

I've always tuned to the lowest frequency in that case, even if it doesn't really sustain.
wavecircle
This is too much of a laboratory approach for my liking, I always use my ears for this kind of thing. As you say, good bass drums usually have some atonal elements and the tonal elements themselves are often enveloped.
BendingBus
Eichburger wrote:
I create drum sounds from scratch and for kicks, toms, and snares I've always used filter resonance with the frequency sweeping down with the envelope - I think this is pretty standard.

Does the idea of tuning have any meaning in this context? Would you tune to the sustain level frequency? Saying that there is likely to be little or no sustain. hmmm.....


Personally I usually do resonance with a stable pitch, cause I like drums that vaguely sound like notes...

But the few times I've messed with pitch envelope drums, I've tried things like incorporating glide. So you hit the C key, hit record, then hit A...kick or tom glides down fast from C to A. But as you say, there is no sustain at either end so it's not really "a note". Shrug, the experiment was kinda "meh" so I never did anything with it. Envelopes are probably more interesting since you can get a multi-stage pitch movement. In that situation I think tuning to a note would not be as relevant (although you could still maybe get it so the kick is implying a note at one end of its travel, something that fits with the bass), but tuning the pitch range so it sits in a nice space not occupied by the bass would still be important.
MindMachine
That is the same program my accountant uses.
Funky40
query:

refering more to the Techno side of things:
lets say you start a new track, you are free to chose a pitch,
---> which pitch (-es) are your favorite ones in regards to make the BD sound fat ? .....if it matters, lets say the more round BDs



does it matters at all or is it pointless ?
BendingBus
Funky40 wrote:
lets say you start a new track, you are free to chose a pitch,
---> which pitch (-es) are your favorite ones in regards to make the BD sound fat ?


Yeah, that choice matters because of the fairly narrow range of usable sub frequencies (40-60hz, sure you can go lower but most people won't hear it), where the bass line sits relative to the kick (which will sit in the sub range?) and its range of movement, etc. Also, when sampling drum machines, sometimes the kick frequency is fixed, and I'd rather just work around that than deal with artifacty pitch shifting.

Personally I like kicks around 60Hz, but it depends on the track.
Funky40
BendingBus wrote:

Personally I like kicks around 60Hz, but it depends on the track.

ok, i see what pitch on a keyboard this is. wink

i have here a very bad listening situation and no access to a club,
so i have hard times to judge anything in that domain just from listening.
( i even can´t listen anything loud most times i´m on my music)
decklyn
I tune all the drums but just by ear. If it sounds good it is good.
@realwiggler
I find it helpful to do some basic drum tuning. I come from a recording background and it’s basically a cardinal sin if you don’t tune drums before a session. I probably carry some of that thinking into the modular world.

BendingBus that Strobsoft looks really interesting, gonna have to check it out. Thanks for the tip. I see they have an iOS app, anyone use this?
tom.bzode
If you can't tune stuff by ear then you're not really ready to make music yet.

You need to trust your ears, above all. If your ears suck, train them. You can't buy that.

I'm aware this is a bit of a forum-dick post but I stand by it.
XAXAU
tom.bzode wrote:
If you can't tune stuff by ear then you're not really ready to make music yet.

That’s a retarded comment. What’s next? If you can’t play a keyboard you can’t make music?

I tune my drums with abletons spectrum analyzer but I often tune stuff wrong because it sounds better. I can’t play the keyboard the way it’s supposed to be played. I still make Banging drums and mesmerizing melodies.

Yawn.
tom.bzode
XAXAU wrote:
tom.bzode wrote:
If you can't tune stuff by ear then you're not really ready to make music yet.

That’s a retarded comment. What’s next? If you can’t play a keyboard you can’t make music?

I tune my drums with abletons spectrum analyzer but I often tune stuff wrong because it sounds better. I can’t play the keyboard the way it’s supposed to be played. I still make Banging drums and mesmerizing melodies.

Yawn.


I think you've missed my point. Well done using offensive language too, btw.

I meant if you're unable to tune your drums to the pitches you want/like by ear - not talking about strictly 12TET tunings or anything like that - then you need to work on your listening skills, ie. ear training.

Use your ears to pick the pitches you want your sounds to be at. Simple, really.
XAXAU
tom.bzode wrote:
XAXAU wrote:
tom.bzode wrote:
If you can't tune stuff by ear then you're not really ready to make music yet.

That’s a retarded comment. What’s next? If you can’t play a keyboard you can’t make music?

I tune my drums with abletons spectrum analyzer but I often tune stuff wrong because it sounds better. I can’t play the keyboard the way it’s supposed to be played. I still make Banging drums and mesmerizing melodies.

Yawn.


I think you've missed my point. Well done using offensive language too, btw.

I meant if you're unable to tune your drums to the pitches you want/like by ear - not talking about strictly 12TET tunings or anything like that - then you need to work on your listening skills, ie. ear training.

Use your ears to pick the pitches you want your sounds to be at. Simple, really.

Fair enough! Sorry for the grumpiness!
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Production Techniques  
Page 1 of 1
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group