MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index
 FAQ & Terms of UseFAQ & Terms Of Use   Wiggler RadioMW Radio   Muff Wiggler TwitterTwitter   Support the site @ PatreonPatreon 
 SearchSearch   RegisterSign up   Log inLog in 
WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Alva Noto style compositing
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Software  
Author Alva Noto style compositing
arnohist
Hi, I am interested in exploring the modular world of synthesis. Until I can afford buy a mother32, in order to expand later, I am using the VCV rack software which suit my need for now.

I am mainly interested in hardware, as I find the physical touch of a button (the process) much more important than the end result. I spend almost a whole day on a computer anyway.

Saying that I lately became interested again in the style of music that Alva Noto plays. I think it is done through MAX/MSP. I am wondering what compositing techniques he uses, and if this style is possible to create with hardware.

Any suggestions much appreciated.
dubonaire
He has used AKS Synthi and also basic sine wave generators in the past. I've read that he uses software apps like Reaktor. I understand he performs using Live for the audio. I'm not sure he is into complex programming environments.
arnohist
What about his Max / Msp use?

I am wondering, if the sounds are created with subtractive techniques and filtered down to a minimal "click" sounding tempo, or if there is another source like samples(which wouldn't make much sense i think).

It is quite hard to find information about glitch in general, as most of the "tutorials" are focused on glitch emulating software, rather than the principles behind this technique.

If someone knows or can guide me to links for further research would be great.
astrodislocate
Maybe take my thoughts with a grain of salt, because I haven't listened to a huge amount of his work. I do love Transform a lot though.

If you're after a sound like that album, I'd recommend not bothering with hardware synths at all. Maybe get a MIDI controller of some sort, though, if you want some physical interaction.

Pretty much the entirety of that sound can be done with raw waveforms, bitcrushers, and maybe an allpass filter or delay.

I think the problem with explaining how to work in a "glitch" style is that the word means different things to different people. What exactly do you have in mind when you use the term?
arnohist
From the very limited knowledge I have about its origins, I understand it as an experimental attempt (when it was first introduced) to go deeper than the sounds of electronic music, to the machine "mistakes" that happen during that process and bring those forward. Although complicated, there seems to be a logic behind this process.

Personally, I love the outcome, which feels very organic to me. Not only from Alva Noto but also other artists that use it, like Vladislav Delay. My small experience with software based modular systems gives me great joy, and it is something I can follow the logic of (vco's, filters, modulation, lfo's, etc). In fact I am saving for a hardware semi modular.

A long time ago I played around with Max and managed to create some sounds with a subtractive logic, that where sequenced very simply and where close to what I have heard as glitch. But I don't think what I produced can be called "glitch". Also, I am aware that there are plugins that create this sound, but I wouldn't think there is the same philosophy behind using a plugin that outputs glitch and creating a patch that produces glitch.

Quote:
Pretty much the entirety of that sound can be done with raw waveforms, bitcrushers, and maybe an allpass filter or delay.


Do you mind elaborating on this process? I would like to give it a go.
dubonaire
arnohist wrote:
From the very limited knowledge I have about its origins, I understand it as an experimental attempt (when it was first introduced) to go deeper than the sounds of electronic music, to the machine "mistakes" that happen during that process and bring those forward. Although complicated, there seems to be a logic behind this process.

Personally, I love the outcome, which feels very organic to me. Not only from Alva Noto but also other artists that use it, like Vladislav Delay. My small experience with software based modular systems gives me great joy, and it is something I can follow the logic of (vco's, filters, modulation, lfo's, etc). In fact I am saving for a hardware semi modular.

A long time ago I played around with Max and managed to create some sounds with a subtractive logic, that where sequenced very simply and where close to what I have heard as glitch. But I don't think what I produced can be called "glitch". Also, I am aware that there are plugins that create this sound, but I wouldn't think there is the same philosophy behind using a plugin that outputs glitch and creating a patch that produces glitch.

Quote:
Pretty much the entirety of that sound can be done with raw waveforms, bitcrushers, and maybe an allpass filter or delay.


Do you mind elaborating on this process? I would like to give it a go.


I could be wrong, but I don't think either of those artists take the machine glitch approach that Kim Cascone has called the aesthetics of failure (eg http://subsol.c3.hu/subsol_2/contributors3/casconetext.html) which is what I think you are referring too, although they might use samples of those sounds.

Sasu Ripatti (Vladislav Delay) was originally a drummer, and I think they both take a very compositional approach rather than an accidental approach. I think you could say that Alva Noto's work is actually very structured and contained, despite the strength of the sounds he uses (and the volume he performs at!).

I think Ryoji Ikeda is more along the lines of the aesthetic you are talking about.
subbasshead
re ikedas style, if you use Max these are maybe worth a look/listen

https://cycling74.com/forums/share-two-homage-patches-for-two-japanese -artists
arnohist
Very interesting article. thanks!

It seems that glitch might have started as an experimentation of the tools (and their limitations), but now it is also being produced by purpose made tools.

So many things to learn, so little time! Just when I got excited by hardware wiggling, I am drawn again back to the box.
arnohist
Thank you subbasshead,

I will check it out.
pixelmechanic


http://www.redbullmusicacademy.com/lectures/carsten-nicolai-listening- to-10000-khz

https://www.thewire.co.uk/issues/238

http://www2.tate.org.uk/intermediaart/macro-micro-minimalism.shtm

BTW, you might also like Frank Bretschneider - who makes a lot of use of Nord Modular.
subbasshead
dubonaire
Awesome! Thanks for sharing that subbasshead. Not surprised at all. The essence of minimalist approaches.
Johnisfaster
Im a big fan. Just from listening to his stuff I know hes definitely opened non audio files as audio. You can do it with Audacity. I’m fairly certain hes done entire tracks from samples of data files.
I’ve heard telephone pickup coil mic
Ive also heard what sounds like modular feedback and/or lots of audio rate modulation to get what I would call harsh modular vomit.
Ive definitely heard that “Im touching the end of a 1/4” cable” sound.
arnohist
Thank you pixelmechanic for video and links!

Interesting that he mentioned in his 2000 interview that he believes technology is causing a barrier for some people. In 2017 it is is the opposite and has been for quite some time now. We have unlimited software based possibilities, and analogue staff cost so much more in comparison. And I believe most new producers/composers appear because they have this kind of access.

And subbasshead thank you too! That's some fantastic insight there into his clean and structured sound.

I wonder how he goes from this meticulously planned and produced compositions to playing live. It must be something more than just switching layers on/off. Perhaps this is where max/msp algorithms come into play.
dubonaire
arnohist wrote:
Thank you pixelmechanic for video and links!

Interesting that he mentioned in his 2000 interview that he believes technology is causing a barrier for some people. In 2017 it is is the opposite and has been for quite some time now. We have unlimited software based possibilities, and analogue staff cost so much more in comparison. And I believe most new producers/composers appear because they have this kind of access.

And subbasshead thank you too! That's some fantastic insight there into his clean and structured sound.

I wonder how he goes from this meticulously planned and produced compositions to playing live. It must be something more than just switching layers on/off. Perhaps this is where max/msp algorithms come into play.


Actually I think he would think the same thing now. I think what he was saying, and showing, is that less is more.

I do know he uses Ableton Live for his live shows, so he is in fact switching layers on and off. As I mentioned before and as you can see from subbasshead's link, his compositions are quite structured and linear. I think Max/MSP is more used for the visual elements in his shows, which are almost always audio-visual shows.
subbasshead
For his AV work, for visuals more recently he has done with Touch Designer

Earlier on was collab with Karl Kliem, who created the visuals for eg the first album w Sakamoto

http://www.dienststelle.de/visuals/
https://vimeo.com/user706142
https://cycling74.com/articles/an-interview-with-karl-kliem
dubonaire
subbasshead wrote:
For his AV work, for visuals more recently he has done with Touch Designer

Earlier on was collab with Karl Kliem, who created the visuals for eg the first album w Sakamoto

http://www.dienststelle.de/visuals/
https://vimeo.com/user706142
https://cycling74.com/articles/an-interview-with-karl-kliem


Aah that's right, I remember that now. I remember reading he used that for the various univrs and unitxt shows.
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Software  
Page 1 of 1
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group