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DIY - Elektor Vocoder *** 3 kits available ***
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY  
Author DIY - Elektor Vocoder *** 3 kits available ***
Fitchie
Project update:

24/12/2017 - PCB design started (basic version)
03/01/2018 - First batch PCB's ordered (basic version)
16/01/2018 - Front panel design started
25/01/2018 - First batch PCB's received (basic version)
28/01/2018 - 3D printed parts available
30/01/2018 - PCB design started (extended version)
10/02/2018 - In/out module prototype ready
11/02/2018 - Power supply 240 VAC prototype ready
31/03/2018 - All PCB's available for the basic version
01/04/2018 - Backplane prototype ready
12/05/2018 - Filter unit prototypes ready
14/05/2018 - Last batch PCB's ordered (extended version)
30/05/2018 - Official interest list available
03/06/2018 - All PCB's available for the extended version
08/06/2018 - Final front panel design ready
10/06/2018 - Sibilance expansion prototype boards ready
04/07/2018 - Frontpanel prototype ordered
05/07/2018 - Kit-testing by LED-man
14/07/2018 - Frontpanel delivered
17/07/2018 - Redesigned power supply 110/240 VAC
31/07/2018 - First assembly ongoing
18/08/2018 - Filters tested
25/08/2018 - First demo sound (basic version)
01/09/2018 - Irresistible price drop, orders accepted
09/09/2018 - Final assembly and cabling
17/09/2018 - New demo posted
20/09/2018 - Fully assembled and working device
22/09/2018 - Dedicated website launched www.vocoder.eu/index.html
23/09/2018 - Consolidated BOM available www.vocoder.eu/bom.html
30/09/2018 - Interest list closed
03/10/2018 - Batch production 3D printed parts
04/10/2018 - Order forms sent out
12/10/2018 - Production run frontpanels received
25/10/2018 - Production run PCB's received
27/10/2018 - Merging kits
31/10/2018 - First shipments to Europe customers
01/11/2018 - Build thread created
07/11/2018 - Final BOM available
08/11/2018 - First shipments to US & Canada customers

Prototype:



Assembled vocoder:



Sound demos:

[s]https://soundcloud.com/boo-gie-879149310/vocoder-demo1[/s]
[s]https://soundcloud.com/user-590053363/vocoder-demo-1[/s]

Project description:

Hello everyone !

I'm a synth & electronics passionate fan and live in Antwerp, Belgium. In the mid-80s, really young and inexperienced, I decided to build the Elektor 10 channel vocoder.

In those days, board designs were published in magazines, afterwards mirrored and copied on transparent foils, heat transferred to hand drilled boards. And last but not least, ferric chloride dissolved in water was used to etch the PCB's. As you know the original Vocoder is built on a total of 14 PCB's, it was a complex and nasty job to completed all boards.

There also was no internet, no "one day order and delivery" from Mouser or Farnell, so getting all your components was quite complex and labor intensive. But I was convinced to build my own Vocoder and putted al my pocket money in. Months later with the unaffordable help of my best friend, I succeeded to finish the heavily under-estimated build.

Here is a picture from the 35 years old device, still operational, but dusty and abandoned.



For quite a long time, I would like to rebuild this Vocoder, but never had the courage to start this project. The initial idea was to make an exact replica as described in the Dutch Elektor magazine (January & February 1980), but with the unworthy and noxious PCB process in mind, I decided to redraw all PCB's to outsource the production of them.

All the design are exact replica of the original electronic schemes, except the initial published errors and the new PCB's are using old trusted through hole components. As improvement the original 2 parts backplane will be cropped and merged to fit on one large PCB and the power supply will be redesigned to plug in the backplane.

The Vocoder will be build up based on those 5 modules:

- Backplane
- Power supply
- In/out module
- High pass filter
- Low pass filter

Also 8 bandfilters are needed:

- 265 Hz
- 390 Hz
- 550 Hz
- 800 Hz
- 1200 Hz
- 1770 Hz
- 2650 Hz
- 3900 Hz

2 years later Elektor did publish a sibilance expansion, based one those PCB's:

- Noise generator
- Detecting interface
- Switching module

The last month I did draft the global approach of this project and already designed the new backplane and power supply. And at the moment I'm finishing the layout of the PCB's and hope to order a first (test) batch beginning next year.

For clarification one can see below the block diagram of the entire vocoder:



As you might except and if you are interested, this will be a DIY project and I will offer PCB's, BOM's and a 19" frontpanel so that everyone can build his own Vocoder. I'm really enthusiastic to expose this project to all of you, and especially on Muff Wiggler where I was till now only a lurker.

I'm glad to hear from you!
Jarno
Nice project!

With respect to components, I wouldn't be too afraid to use SMT IC's as they save a lot of room, and were there any "weird" components in this? IMHO, a lot of the Elektor projects sometimes had overly complex circuits or components that were hard to get, even when in production.

Do you have some pictures from your boards?
Fitchie
Hi Jarno,


We all known Elektor for their designs based on rare components they got from manufacturers to build a project around, so I did investigate the original components list as well and can inform you there are no "hard to get" components used.

Short overview of the used semiconductors:

- BC547x (20 pcs)
- TL084 (20 pcs)
- 741 (10 pcs)
- CA3080 (10 pcs)
- TDA1034 (5 pcs)
- LM308 (1 pc)
- 78xx (2 pcs)
- 79xx (2 pcs)

Below you'll find some pictures of the original boards I built in the mid-80s. Left side is the in/out module, right side is one of the filter units:

Haralds:Werk
Great project! Keep going. For inspiration or adaption you might look here: http://www.haraldswerk.de/PP_Vocoder/PP_Vocoder.html
I considered building a Elektor Vocoder as well but then decided to go another road.
Jarno
TDA1034 = NE5534
And replace the 3080's with LM13700? CA3080 is expensive and often faked.

Any reason for specifying so many different opamps? (741, TDA1034, LM308, TL084) Maybe just settle on one throughout?
goodrevdoc
I've wanted to build one of these forever, but never had the gumption to make boards based on the scans on the net. Super interested and thanks for the legwork.
-justin
stringsthings
This project looks very interesting!

I do have a question about some of the parts:
Fitchie wrote:


Short overview of the used semiconductors:

- BC547x (20 pcs)
- TL084 (20 pcs)
- 741 (10 pcs)
- CA3080 (10 pcs)
- TDA1034 (5 pcs)
- LM308 (1 pc)
- 78xx (2 pcs)
- 79xx (2 pcs)


As mentioned by Jarno, the CA3080 is expensive/obsolete, and could be replaced by the LM13700.

And the TDA1034 was replaced by the NE5534 it seems.

Although the 741 is still widely available, there are lots of equivalent op-amps that are superior.
yan6
Looking good and interested
minime123
we may be interested in one for our studio vocoder arsenal.
mini
Fitchie
All,


Thanks for your great feedback and suggestions for replacement components. This is really appreciated !
Meanwhile the redesigned backplane is ready and triple checked. Next one will be the power supply.

Component side backplane (380 mm x 72 mm):



Solder side backplane:

minime123
thanks for labelling the pcb. i just stuffed a buchla 259r and it was a major pain in the ass without proper labelling.
mini
Fitchie
To become a bit nostalgic, I added the original Elektor PCB's.
This is 35 years of history !

Fitchie
PWM
stringsthings wrote:
Although the 741 is still widely available, there are lots of equivalent op-amps that are superior.



Superior is not the correct word, imo. There are opamps that have a faster slew rate and a better n/s ratio but that doesn't make them superior per se.
They're different and can be better in different applications. I like 741, 1458 and 4558s in my modules and or sound processing equipment. Take Jurgen Haible's Kroutrock Phaser for instance. This thing sounds amezing and is packed with 1458s!
sanders
I hope I'm not too far off topic here-- but I've often wondered, what are the difficulties in achieving the level of speech articulation that one finds with vintage commercial vocoders like EMS, Moog, and even the Roland and Korg?

Most of the audio I've heard from the current crop of diy projects seem to be on par with the Paia Vocoder. The effect is decent for sure, but speech comes across vague, and not well defined.

Is it unrealistic to expect the level of articulated speech one hears on Kraftwerk or Giorgio Moroder records from a DIY project (which probably makes some design concessions in favor of ease of assembly)?
KSS
sanders wrote:
I hope I'm not too far off topic here-- but I've often wondered, what are the difficulties in achieving the level of speech articulation that one finds with vintage commercial vocoders like EMS, Moog, and even the Roland and Korg?

A very good question. Have a look at Harald's vocoder link to see the extras required for the results you're looking for.

Quote:
Most of the audio I've heard from the current crop of diy projects seem to be on par with the Paia Vocoder. The effect is decent for sure, but speech comes across vague, and not well defined.

Not meaning to throw water on the fire in the OP's efforts, but this one is likely similar to the PAIA. PAIA is much improved with Scott's clarifying mod.

Quote:
Is it unrealistic to expect the level of articulated speech one hears on Kraftwerk or Giorgio Moroder records from a DIY project (which probably makes some design concessions in favor of ease of assembly)?

In a word, Yes. Again, see all the extras beyond input, output and filters at Haralds excellent site. Again, not wanting to diss this project at all. There is room for all types of sounds in what we do.

@ Fitchie: Great project! Those buss connectors remind me of the expensive unobtainium connectors which seem to be a mainstay of 70's UK synth magazine projects. Were I in your shoes, they would be the very first thing to go. Exchanged for either typical dual row 2.54 headers or maybe a 156 molex like the Buchla easel.
Haralds:Werk
sanders wrote:
I hope I'm not too far off topic here-- but I've often wondered, what are the difficulties in achieving the level of speech articulation that one finds with vintage commercial vocoders like EMS, Moog, and even the Roland and Korg?

Most of the audio I've heard from the current crop of diy projects seem to be on par with the Paia Vocoder. The effect is decent for sure, but speech comes across vague, and not well defined.

Is it unrealistic to expect the level of articulated speech one hears on Kraftwerk or Giorgio Moroder records from a DIY project (which probably makes some design concessions in favor of ease of assembly)?


No not necessarily. To operate a analog vocoder correctly it needs a lot of practice and experimenting. You need to know what exciter to use and how to articulate your words and how to set the tone controls of the speech input. And how to set the band controls and the limiter and .... In short it need s experience and more time experimenting than building it.
Most of the diy vocoders are on the qualitative low side though. Only a few filter bands, crappy filters, wrongly spaced, badly build. Go for at least 20 filter banks with 48dB filters.
Haralds:Werk
The connectors are industrial standard. DIN41617
Search for "Federlesite 21L" at www.reichelt.de

But if memory serves the capacitor values used in the filters are uncommon today. You might need to recalculate them. And have a look at Dirk Lindhofs work. He already build one and sells them. http://synthlab.de/elektor-vocoder.html
Fitchie
KSS wrote:
Those buss connectors remind me of the expensive unobtainium connectors which seem to be a mainstay of 70's UK synth magazine projects. Were I in your shoes, they would be the very first thing to go. Exchanged for either typical dual row 2.54 headers or maybe a 156 molex like the Buchla easel.

Conec is still producing those nostalgic connectors:

- 21 pin male : 101E10099X
- 21 pin female : 102E10079X





Take care not to order the L (solder lugs) version, this one will not fit in the backplane.
For full datasheets please see below attachments.
efexor
Haralds:Werk wrote:
Great project! Keep going. For inspiration or adaption you might look here: http://www.haraldswerk.de/PP_Vocoder/PP_Vocoder.html
I considered building a Elektor Vocoder as well but then decided to go another road.


Your Vocoder project is awesome.
Wish i had the skills to built it one day.

I own 5 Elektor formant Systems,but they all need work,but this is in progress.

Had the chance to buy that Elektor Vocoder a few times but missed it very frustrating
efexor
@ Fitchie
So cool you still own this after 35 years.
Fitchie
As promised, here is the new designed power supply. In contrast to the original layout, all importants parts are on the main PCB:

- transformer
- fuse
- 7805 & 7815
- 7905 & 7915

As a result the previous published backplane is lean & mean and does not contain active components anymore.

Component side (172 mm x 72 mm):



Solder side:

Fitchie
The original Elektor print is shown below for comparison:

KSS
Thank you for the education on those connectors. Very nice!

You may want to re-configure the power supply board by roatating the 4 Vregs as a group 90 degrees. Heat rises. Right now the top Vreg gets all the heat rising from those below. Adding to the problem, heatsinks are typically aligned to work against the orientation you have here.

The synthlab.de website has a good picture of the right way to do a eurocard power supply in the PDF for Dirk's 808 and 909 Drum clones.
The capacitors will likely need rotating also to make room. The graphics area changes, but I'd say long lasting and readily convectively cooled power is more important. I imagine the heatsinks on your original are rotated this way too. It's worth the effort to make it right.
KSS
I see now the original is the same orientation but only see two Vregs? At a minimum you could add some decent PCB-based heatsinking traces and pours as is seen on many power PCBs using SMD. You have the clean open areas available to do this. Done well, these PCB trace and via-based cooling techniques can make a big difference.
Fitchie
Today I finished the input/output unit (RU 80068-3).

Component side (172 mm x 72 mm):



And this is the solder side:

Fitchie
KSS wrote:
I see now the original is the same orientation but only see two Vregs? At a minimum you could add some decent PCB-based heatsinking traces and pours as is seen on many power PCBs using SMD. You have the clean open areas available to do this. Done well, these PCB trace and via-based cooling techniques can make a big difference.

That's correct. The original design has only 7815 and 7915 volt regulators on the power supply, and +5 and -5 volt was made on the backplane with a 78L05 and 79L05.
The new design does include all regulators on the power supply card. And the power dissipation is so limited that the heatsinks are above the mark.
BugBrand
You definitely want to up the trace sizes on the PSU PCB.

Interesting project by the way.
& Harald's vocoder project is simply beautiful - would love to build the analysis & meter panels.
Fitchie
BugBrand wrote:
You definitely want to up the trace sizes on the PSU PCB.

Thanks for the feedback.

Current design:

- high voltage AC traces are 1 mm
- low voltage DC traces are 0,6 mm

What would you like to suggest ?
Fitchie
In the meantime the band filter (RU 80068-4) is ready too.
In totaal 8 of these PCB's are needed to build the vocoder.

Component side (172 mm x 72 mm):



And solder side:



Beside the 8 bandfilters, also a low pass and high pass filter is needed to complete the project.

Below one can see the block diagram of the filter units:

BugBrand
Fitchie wrote:
BugBrand wrote:
You definitely want to up the trace sizes on the PSU PCB.

Thanks for the feedback.

Current design:

- high voltage AC traces are 1 mm
- low voltage DC traces are 0,6 mm

What would you like to suggest ?


As big as you can go - 0V, especially, but also the DC power lines.
Fitchie
On request, here is the updated power supply (RU 80068-2):

- remarkable bigger AC traces
- considerable bigger DC traces and ground traces
- copper area under every power regulator for extra dissipation
- cover plate to avoid touching the AC part

Also the backplane has got an important update: power & ground traces are now accommodated on both sides of the PCB.

Component side power supply:



Solder side:



Cover plate:

Fitchie
Quick update: the low pass filter has just been finished (RU 80068-5).
This PCB is based on the band filter (RU 80068-4) as published a few posts earlier, only the component layout and silkscreen is slightly different.

Component side low pass filter (172 mm x 72 mm):



Solder side:



Next and latest PCB is the high pass filter (RU 80068-6). I'll try to complete this design the next week.
LED-man
Very interesting project.
Please count me in for it.
Jarno
Looks great, very clean, and sensibly compact. Maybe add some mounting holes for the PCB's? Maybe not everyone will use the DIN backplane? (A lot of Formant builds also do not have the DIN connector). And those holes right next to the DIN connector footprint, are they soldering pads or regular mounting holes?

I like the polygons in the "armpits" of tracks as well, the fills, classic look. I also notice now, all of these are single sided, right? Particular reason?
Given that the PCB's are single sided, you REALLY did a good job of routing the boards, not too many jumpers if I am not mistaken.
Fitchie
@LED-man & Jarno,

Thanks for the nice feedback !

Jarno wrote:
Maybe add some mounting holes for the PCB's? Maybe not everyone will use the DIN backplane?

The goal is (after final assembling) to draw a stiff wire on the sides to fix the PCB's by soldering them to this wire. Therefore all PCB's have small soldering holes on the corners.
Given there are no tracks around the soldering holes, you are free to drill them as big as you want. In that case just use the holes as center point.

Jarno wrote:
I also notice now, all of these are single sided, right? Particular reason? Given that the PCB's are single sided, you REALLY did a good job of routing the boards, not too many jumpers if I am not mistaken.

My intention was to preserve the nostalgia as much as possible, including the 'armpits' and the single sided design. There are some tracks on the component side of the PCB's to avoid wire bridges. Only the backplane has a multi later layout for ground and current tracks.
KSS



Moving nicely along!

Mod pics should be mostly self explaining. The red circle is near what on your board is a probable fatal error. There is not enough clearance there between the traces.

A copper pad under the heatsink will simply rise to the heat level of the Vreg tab and sit there. You do have a bit of oversize which will radiate. The mod pic shows a way to greatly increase the effectiveness of the pcb heatsink through increased area, vias as heat-conductive paths to additional radiating area on the other side of the insulating pcb. I didn't show vias under the Vreg tab, but they could be useful too. If not needed for the original, an idea shared below may make them worthwhile. They certainly don't hurt.

When you have the area to use, go ahead and use it. Spread heat sources apart from each other. The mod pic shows the upper two Vregs moved only, but the red arrows show to move the others. Diodes also moved to allow larger traces and spaces and to remove them a bit as heat sources from the heat sensitive capacitors. Towards the heat producing transformer too, as it's not likely to be a problem. I didn't do a complete redraw, only hitting enough to show the ideas for you to use or not.

The original Power PCB you posted shows few spindly tracks from the large ground area. The capacitors connect at an apex of a triangular extension to this large area. The mod pic shows a similar shape where you had thin traces. Your traces should be at least as wide as the originals. Wider won't hurt.

Lastly, do you think the single backplane is a good idea?
The original design makes more sense, and doesn't inhibit your other improvements.
You have 11 similar sized boards and one cover PCB which at about 1/3 the size will fit in their shadow. A nice compact package. But then you have this single long thin easily bent or broken in shipment backplane PCB. At 400mm or more when packaged it's no longer requiring only a simple standard padded envelope or box. Even stacking the 11-1/3 pcbs on top of it in pairs will not really change this shipping consideration. Split it as the original and all these issues disappear. The package is then a typical and much smaller size more likely to survive postal rigors. The downside is only a few more wires to solder between two halves.

One more benefit is that a split backplane PCB allows for additional filters, noise source, voiced/unvoiced detection and other upgrades and modifications in a smaller increment by fitting one or more in between or at the end of the original pair using a third backplane. Were I in your shoes, I would make another filter size board including the cover to have 12 plus the two backplanes. 14 PCBs, with one including the cover and an additional few spaces of backplane. This narrow bus has a few extra spaces and connectors for mods or upgrades. Either V-score or separate from the cover, or even drilled to snap apart it's a nice upgrade path and it evens up your shipping package. You have a solid even brick of PCBs to ship by standard box or envelope and you've given your customers an option to use or not as they see fit. And yourself as well. After all, you already have the basic vocoder! What could you do with a few more spaces in the backplane? What could your customers do with the added possibilities?

I hope you see this as constructive as I think what you're doing is a nice addition to the DIY synth world.
KSS
Not 11, 12 plus backplane. Missed out the Input/output PCB!
Fitchie
Wow great feedback !
Thanks for your extensive response !

KSS wrote:

The red circle is near what on your board is a probable fatal error. There is not enough clearance there between the traces.

Valuable suggestion: clearance has been enlarged. The order for the prototyping boards has already been placed, but the next batch will contain the suggested adjustments.

KSS wrote:

The mod pic shows a way to greatly increase the effectiveness of the pcb heatsink through increased area, vias as heat-conductive paths to additional radiating area on the other side of the insulating pcb.

Actually the power consumption is about 200 mA in total, so the 15 VDC regulators will barely dissipate 0,5 W each, the 5 VDC regulators much less. Even at hours of use, the heatsinks hardly becomes lukewarm.

KSS wrote:

The original Power PCB you posted shows few spindly tracks from the large ground area. The capacitors connect at an apex of a triangular extension to this large area. The mod pic shows a similar shape where you had thin traces. Your traces should be at least as wide as the originals.

Good one. The ground area has been reshaped and the traces have been widened to 1.2 mm.

KSS wrote:

Lastly, do you think the single backplane is a good idea?

This is a conscious choice. Putting 2 pieces together is less straightforward than it seems and makes the backplane wobbly.

KSS wrote:

But then you have this single long thin easily bent or broken in shipment backplane PCB. Even stacking the 11-1/3 pcbs on top of it in pairs will not really change this shipping consideration.

Together with the PCB's I would like to offer a 19" front in 3 mm thick anodised aluminium. That front panel is sturdy enough to support the PCB's during transport. And splitting the front panel into 2 parts would not be a good idea. :-)

KSS wrote:

One more benefit is that a split backplane PCB allows for additional filters, noise source, voiced/unvoiced detection and other upgrades and modifications in a smaller increment by fitting one or more in between or at the end of the original pair using a third backplane.

If there is enough interest, probably I want to extend the backplane with 2 extra connectors, in the condition that the backplate does not become wider than 19".

KSS wrote:

I hope you see this as constructive as I think what you're doing is a nice addition to the DIY synth world.

Absolutely, this kind of feedback is very valuable and greatly appreciated.
Fitchie
All,

What do you think about these 19" front panels?


Variant 1:

- Black anodised aluminium
- Engraved front panel, white painted infill
- Drilled and equipped with thread to allow flush mounting of the jacks & pots




Variant 2:

- Black anodised aluminium
- Color printed (UV), white underlay
- Drilled and equipped with thread to allow flush mounting of the jacks & pots




Variant 3:

- Black anodised aluminium
- Light grey printed (UV), no underlay
- Drilled and equipped with thread to allow flush mounting of the jacks & pots

PWM
Although the design looks appealing, maybe it isn't the most ergonomic option. Especially the master part where the jacks are relatively close to the pots while there is so much 'unused' space on the left side of the panel.

Great project btw! I love analog vocoders.
basicbasic
Watching with great interest SlayerBadger!
Fitchie
PWM wrote:
Especially the master part where the jacks are relatively close to the pots while there is so much 'unused' space on the left side of the panel.

Hi PWN,

Thanks for your advice.
I intended to design the front panel as symmetrical as possible. Actually there is almost no unused space left on the panel, even without brackets. Don't forget the mounting lips on the right & left side.

See picture:


But I'll try to move all knobs and plugs a little bit to the left side.
PWM
Fitchie wrote:
PWM wrote:
Especially the master part where the jacks are relatively close to the pots while there is so much 'unused' space on the left side of the panel.

Hi PWN,

Thanks for your advice.
I intended to design the front panel as symmetrical as possible. Actually there is almost no unused space left on the panel, even without brackets. Don't forget the mounting lips on the right & left side.

See picture:


But I'll try to move all knobs and plugs a little bit to the left side.


Ah yes, I did forgot those darned things..!
I think I would put the master section to the left. This has a benafit for right handed people, this seems logical to me. But this is obviously a personal preference. Either way, I do like the clean, test equipment look of the panel.
LED-man
i prefer a powerswitch for rackmount units at the frontpanel.
DPST switch, type depends on the frontpanel design

examples:
https://www.tme.eu/de/details/1832.3313/wippschalter/marquardt/
https://www.tme.eu/de/details/ae-t8550vbaaa/wippschalter/bulgin/t8550v bbb076w/
Bodo1967
Perhaps rotate the "Vocoder" logo by 90 degrees (so it is vertical) and place it on the far left, close to the edge? That'd allow the power LED (and switch wink) and everything else to move a little to the left as well.
Fitchie
Here you are ...



Boogie
not been on the forum yet,
but I would opt for VOCODER horizontally
Fitchie
My first 3D drawing experiences, but this is how it should look like...

bemerritt
I agree with the master jacks/pots. If you can somehow space it out, i think it would be nice.

Could you possibly place the In/Out jacks in two rows instead of one? Then you could tighten the whole thing up horizantily
Fitchie
Updated spacing for the input/output section:



Against the original design:

PWM
Fitchie, looks great!
KSS
Not bad for your first 3d! Did you mean to leave the power board out? If you put the jacks on 3/4" 19mm centers, then bananas and their standard shorting blocks can be used to patch the filters. 14.25" or 362mm from first to last jack.

It looks like IC11, pin 5-8 on the low pass Bd 5 is shorting to the nearby trace. Hard to tell if that's supposed to connect with the resolution posted here. IC12, pin 5 also seems to short a nearby trace. I found the original 1980 Elektor article series in French at Yusynth's site. Sure enough, these do not touch. Do you have DRC on your PCB software to check for traces too close? Be sure to run it on all your boards if you do. We can help too but the pictures here are hard to see clearly. Having a rectangle or polygon pad when the traces are tight for pin one of ICs is helpful.

Something which has become common on boards made for SDIY is to have the values in the part silk footprints. With these boards there is enough room to also put the reference designators outside the footprint to be read after assembly. This is really the best of both worlds. Easy to assemble, and easy to find references later during repair or troubleshooting.. Labeling all trimmer functions on the silkscreen near the presets will be good too.

Reading that PDF with my long forgotten middle school French, I can use the circuits to mostly guess through the words. Do you have an English version you could share? It seems the add-ons suggestion I made is already designed and laid out! The last article of that PDF shows a noise source and unvoiced/voiced PCB. Both of these look very similar to what Harald has used in his Vocoder.

It seems a pity that these won't be part of your project. They add greatly to vocoder intelligibility and would be nice stretch for you since you already have the basic version. I am for sure less interested in a plain version now knowing these are tried and true vintage parts of this project. As I wrote before, you already have the perfect PCB area left over from a 172mm pcb minus the cover width for a separate Buss expander. And as you pointed out the Rack panel will support a wide backplane for shipping if you wanted to just make the single backplane wider. Juggling the spacing of the connectors on the backplane will be easier now than later. I am sure all will fit in a rack width.

Sibilance really makes a difference. I hope you will consider making these part of your 35th anniversary project. I doubt anyone else will re-do this Vocoder after you, so we're in your hands. Please give us the full system for a true anniversary celebration.
Fitchie
KSS wrote:
Not bad for your first 3d! Did you mean to leave the power board out?

You clearly have good eyes, I even did not notice that there were 11 boards instead of 12 on the 3D rendering.
But indeed the idea remains to plug the power supply straight into the backplane.

KSS wrote:
If you put the jacks on 3/4" 19mm centers, then bananas and their standard shorting blocks can be used to patch the filters. 14.25" or 362mm from first to last jack.

Hold on, no banana plugs are used for signal routing/patching.
Here we use shielded 3,5 mm jacks.

KSS wrote:
It looks like IC11, pin 5-8 on the low pass Bd 5 is shorting to the nearby trace. Hard to tell if that's supposed to connect with the resolution posted here.

Wy do you think the traces are to close together or even shortening?
Please see detail:

KSS wrote:
With these boards there is enough room to also put the reference designators outside the footprint to be read after assembly. This is really the best of both worlds.

All PCB's are in production now, but this is a good suggestion for the 2nd revision.

KSS wrote:
As I wrote before, you already have the perfect PCB area left over from a 172mm pcb minus the cover width for a separate Buss expander. And as you pointed out the Rack panel will support a wide backplane for shipping if you wanted to just make the single backplane wider.

The backplane has already the option to connect additional expansions:

But please can you provide a sketch with what you mean exactly?
Or is it sufficient that I horizontally compress the backplane to provide 2 extra connectors?
tron23
basicbasic wrote:
Watching with great interest SlayerBadger!


+1 Guinness ftw!
Fitchie
Last but not least ... here is the high pass filter board (RU 80068-6).

Component side (172 mm x 72 mm):



Solder side:

Fitchie
KSS wrote:
I hope you will consider making these part of your 35th anniversary project. I doubt anyone else will re-do this Vocoder after you, so we're in your hands. Please give us the full system for a true anniversary celebration.

On special request, please see below the extended backplane (RU 80068-1X) including 3 extra connectors on the left side:

- Noise generator
- Detection interface
- Commutation interace

Extended backplane component side (420 mm x 72 mm):



Extended backplane solder side:

AonFLuX
Love this project! Would love to build myself a nice vocoder smile
Good work!
KSS

On the pics you posted, this is what I could see. That detail image is much clearer! Still, with silkscreen usually 10 mils, it looks like there is only abot 8mils spacing. I copied the red silk and moved it near the traces in the mod of your detail.

There is a pad to the right not seen in your detail which has some room to spare to allow these traces more room. ORange arrows show the moves . Orange circle shows another place where the traces are overly close. What is important to note there is the room available to have better clearance for traces. There are numerous examples of this layout style in the originals. Where things are just a whole bunch more compressed than they could be. Unless there is a reason to keep a trace from another, make use of the available space!

Also in the detail mod pic there are two orange ovals where the PCB silkscreen covers solder pads. This is not good. I show on the left of the IC and cap how to change the silk to fix this. On the original Elektor 80 design, it did not matter because a one layer board has no plated holes so there is no capillary action and no solder fillet on the top of boards like we see with normal 2 side plated through hole boards today. Your anniversary boards will be two sides and have plated holes which is good. But this silkscreen overlap which did not matter before will need to be fixed.

I know you have not planned for banana jacks on the front panel. I wrote to suggest that you should. The simple common and important 3/4" 19mm dimension to those who *do* use bananas will *allow* this project to be used by those with banana format synths. Especially since there is no panel PCB in this project to modify and the front panel may be easily drilled out to allow 6.35mm or banana jacks. This makes your project more useful to more people. And it didn't seem like the dimension was far off of what was already used.

The simple drawing you asked for is made unnecessary by the new backplane. But to explain, It would be a 72x172 PCB where 60mm is used up by the cover, leaving 112mm to be used for the back plane expander and maybe anything else useful. A v-score or drilled dotted line allows this board to be packed with the rest and being the same size as the others, makes for more secure shipping. Right now the cover is an odd man out, size wise. The combining of the cover and bus expansion into one splittable board solves this.

I realise you've made your choice and it's your project so this is meant for anyone reading this later. I still believe using the 2 or 3 part back plane is a better idea. Because the shipping is not just to us from you, but also from the PCB maker to you. And the panel maker is probably not the same, so those long busboards are subject to everything I said earlier in that trip to you. Also many PCB houses charge more for long narrow boards.

There is another reason to do it this way. SDIY groups are found with later messages saying how did I miss this! Do you still have kits? Many times, the PCBs are easier to keep in stock than the front panels. So doing things in a way which favors easy and compact PCB packaging and shipping increases your customer base. Not just at first. But forever. Forever being as long as you want to support the project. Know that you *will* be asked these questions.

Done the split buss way, A complete Vcocoder has 20 identically sized boards. 10 BPF, 1 HPF, 1LPF, 1I/O, 1PWR, 1 combination Cover/Buss expander and 2 Buss PCB's. The sibilance expansion has 3 more PCBs. 1Nois, 1 Detector and 1Comm. Two even stacks of ten for a safe and solid shipping envelope after Front panels have run out.

I don't know if you have offered a project to SDIY before so this may be old news to you. Do not underestimate the time and hassle of packaging and shipping!

The sibilance expansion adds two LEDs, two switches and a noise level pot to the panel. This means that a vertical label of the word Encoder makes more sense than it did without these parts on the panel. I am fully confident that anyone who has used a vocoder with this added sibilance control and capability will agree the function is worth the tradeoff!

Finally, I'm not a fan of the threaded holes for panel parts. Extra cost and limiting to DIY. Unless you do a complete panel parts kit, you may find yourself regretting the support needed when parts a customer bought don't fit the threads. It won't be your fault. But it will still be your problem.

As before, all is intended to be thoughtful and helpful!
KSS
Here is an idea how you could make the single large back plane PCB for the support you want and still have the ability to benefit in the ways described. Simply put a drilled row of holes at 172mm where it *could* be split. Two rows of holes now in the expanded Back plane version.

Ken stone does this on some of his PCB's so his 6" standard is maintained, yet Euro DIY is accomodated.

I'm still a believer in the 20 same size boards. This just occurred to me and it might be a way for you to have both the support you want and the benefits I described.
KSS
Fitchie, On your panel 25312_vocoder_3_1, one of the holes to mount the box to the panel got shifted. The one under the OUT label. Needs to go more directly under the U in OUT. Found it whilt trying 16 and 19mm jack spacing. 16 between in and out and 19 between out to the next in. Keeps everything basically where it is now, and allows the banana shorting block option.
Boogie
Way to go fitchie, keep up the good work.
You're progressing real fast.



oops oops
RadekTymecki
wow! simply amazing. Count me in when You will start collecting orders for this one. Always wanted to have old school voco like this
Fitchie
Finally all PCB designs are ready, most of them in production, some under review.

So it is quietly time to finish the 19" front panel.
Let's start with a forum poll: which one would you choose?

KSS
It looks like the label of the top one will not clear the panel mounting oval holes?

Preference is for the top format, but with the 2nd from top vocoder label size in plain legacy white or off-white to clear the panel mounting holes. The line "35th anniversary" parallel to the vocoder label. Leave off Elektor and maybe also edition. The typeface and layout show clearly it is the Elektor vocoder. But do include the 35th anniversary!
Power switch changed to a pot size hole in line with the others, which will fit a normal size power toggle switch. Which also fits the time period.

This is the way to be able to add the sibilance panel controls without using a huge and otherwise unnecessary 1U add-on panel, or an ugly thin covering sheet to change the left side of the panel to add them. I was picturing a layout like the high pass block, where the top knob was the power switch and the bottom knob was noise level. The in and out holes are where the two sibilance control switches go.

By using a classic round hole toggle switch for power, it is only a matter of drilling a few round holes to accomodate the sibilance add-on. Neatly and symmetric to the High pass.
KSS
Fitchie
KSS wrote:
By using a classic round hole toggle switch for power, it is only a matter of drilling a few round holes to accomodate the sibilance add-on.

Based on your input, please see below 2 updated designs:

Basic version of the vocoder

- Low pass filter
- 8 x bandwidth filter
- High pass filter
- Input/output module
- Power supply + cover
- Basic backplane (12 connectors)
- 19" aluminium frontpanel




Mismatch between scale frontpanel and backplane.


Extended version of the vocoder

- Low pass filter
- 8 x bandwidth filter
- High pass filter
- Input/output module
- Power supply + cover
- Noise generator (not on current roadmap)
- Detection interface (not on current roadmap)
- Commutation interace (not on current roadmap)
- Extended backplane (15 connectors)
- 19" aluminium frontpanel with sibilance control




Mismatch between scale frontpanel and backplane.


Some remarks:

The shielded routing jacks are slightly moved to a center distance of 16 mm. This benefits cleaning them out to use banana connectors. I still don't understand why one would like to use non shielded wiring, but the option to use banana connectors is available now.

To manage correctly all expectations and user specific wish lists, I'm going to make sure that the basic model gets ready to ship within reasonable time. When there is sufficient interest, I'll also design the 3 boards for the sibilance control option somewhere in the near future.
Zaibach
This looks so great! I would love to build the fully expanded version. Do you have a price tag yet for the pcbs and panel?
KSS
Hi Fitchie,

If you have the Vocoder label horizontal on the basic version, you may as well also use the rectangular switch hole.

The round hole only makes sense if you also have the Vocoder label vertical like you show on the expanded version. There is no need for two versions if you use a round hole and vertical Vocoder label. That was the whole point of making it vertical and using a round switch hole. That someone could upgrade later. Or not.

I never intended that the holes I added for the sibilance would be for a second version. Only sent two drawings to show how the one could be turned into the other with a few added holes.

No need for an extended backplane either since it is now very clear you want to do a basic version. Once that is offered, there will be little reason for anyone to want an expanded version if you haven't provided for that in an easy fashion. I tried to show you how you could make room for that possibility, without forcing anyone to accept anything towards it except for the round switch hole and vertical Vocoder label.

My goal here was to try to help you have the best of both worlds. And to be economic for production and shipping for you. I'll back off and let you do what you want. The suggestions I've made could be very useful to increase the size of your project, but that is up to you.

I will finish by saying that the mounting holes just added to the corners of the front panel are much too large. Best of luck in your project, and if you need someone to lay out the sibilance expander boards. I could do that for you. I use Diptrace. I wouldn't want anything for it, just a way to let others have the full original expansion Elektor offered in the 80s.
KSS
And if you want to preserve the original look even more, the sibilance noise level pot can go where the high frequency blend pot now is located. Above the High Pass level pot. Then only the two switch holes and optionally, the two sibilance indicator led holes would stay on the left below a rectangular power switch. The Vocoder label would still need to be vertical.

Again, was only trying to help and hope you have great success!
Fitchie
Hi KSS,

Again thanks for your feedback.

KSS wrote:
No need for an extended backplane either since it is now very clear you want to do a basic version. Once that is offered, there will be little reason for anyone to want an expanded version if you haven't provided for that in an easy fashion.

I never said that I wouldn't like offer the extended version, I just indicated that the main focus is to complete the basic version first. Why else would I have designed the extend backplane?

Designing PCB's is one step, building, debugging and offering kits are 3 other steps to complete. Many DIY projects will never be finished due to regularly scope changes and increasing specs. I absolutely want to avoid this pitfall.

In the meantime I did order the digital edition of the Elektor magazines where the sibilance expansion has been described. It looks like P17 (high frequency mixer) has no function anymore while switching on the noise generator. However it's unclear for now what the function of P17 is when the noise generator is switched off. Probably in that case the sibilance noise level pot can be placed where the high frequency blend pot is located. Consequently, there are only 2 extra switches and optional LED's required.

Anyhow I will further investigate this expansion, don't worry.

KSS wrote:

I will finish by saying that the mounting holes just added to the corners of the front panel are much too large.

That's correct, I also have noticed this. It looks like there is an error in FrontDesign. Both the Schroff mounting holes cutout as the Fisher variant are not correct in size. Schaeffer AG has already received an email about this issue.

No doubt, this will be solved before producing the panels.
Fitchie
Sibilance expansion block diagram with P17:




The G/H and I/J connections are foreseen on the solder side of both backplanes. In the extended version the connecting traces can easily be cutted on the indicated positions.

KSS
Offering two different projects instead of one which can optionally be easily expanded, is not a good choice. It forces your potential buyer to decide which to go for and will end up seriously hurting both your initial and your later sales. How many times have synth companies shot themselves in the foot by mentioning an expanded version or updated module they're planning to release later. Buyers now have to decide whether to buy the first and hope they can trade it for the later version, or do without until the later version arrives. Which often enough does not ever happen, as you've said.

Fortunately, you don't need to offer two different projects at all! Unlike the Elektor and Synton people back in 1980, you already have what was then future sibilance parts in front of you now. So unlike the hopefully adequate provisions they put in place, you can set up a perfectly ready option. Easy to have. Or easy not to have. All of my comments in this thread have been toward either that goal, or basic peer review error checks.

Fitchie wrote:
Designing PCB's is one step, building, debugging and offering kits are 3 other steps to complete. Many DIY projects will never be finished due to regularly scope changes and increasing specs. I absolutely want to avoid this pitfall.


I completely agree! With simple changes to easily allow expandability as an option, everybody wins! Those who want the basic or the expanded vocoder get it just as soon, and the sibilance option is offered when it is available and has been tested, as a small package with 3 or 4 PCBs and maybe a couple thin aluminum or plastic labels for pots and switches held on by the pot or switch nuts. After all, the original evolved this way also. Only they didn't have the already designed, tested and laid out sibilance add-on that you do. This means the sibilance option can now be fully planned for, the addition can be easy and successful for anyone who already built the basic vocoder.

Another benefit to us all these years later are the online photos of completed Elektor Vocoders. These are helpful to show what can be done, and also to show what may not be so good. One shows the in out jacks arranged single panel like yours but spaced unevenly which combined with seeing Harald's banana based vocoder resulted in my suggestion to make bananas an easily and planned possible option. Another very small and blurry photo shows the sibilance option as a 1U full rack width add-on above the basic Vocoder. Seems a waste of space when it can be done within the original size and look. A couple show the fully modular version Elektor originally designed. Dirk Lindhof's modular version was pieced to fit into a found clear case he re-purposed using the larger but same connectors which were in the old clear case.

Quote:
In the meantime I did order the digital edition of the Elektor magazines where the sibilance expansion has been described. It looks like P17 (high frequency mixer) has no function anymore while switching on the noise generator.


Yes, that's what the article says. Harald Bode is the source for the p17 blend pot technique. He even patented it. Ray of MFOS (RIP) also used that method in his vocoder design. Craig Anderton used a version in the PAIA vocoder.
My experience with these and other vocoders leads me to believe it is still useful even with the sibilance option installed.
I was able to find an English version of the Elektor articles online. I think it was at the internet archive. The text is in a separate file and clearly OCR'd. The illustrations are good quality tifs. It does cover the entire project including the sibilance addition.

Quote:
However it's unclear for now what the function of P17 is when the noise generator is switched off.


Essentially it is a wet/dry control. And that is useful even with the sibilance noise and switch in place. Personally I would want both, and the panel with the single round power hole and vertical Vocoder label allows this. But if the rectangular switch is important to you, then it would must be moved.

Quote:
Anyhow I will further investigate this expansion, don't worry.


I'm not worried. I have previously shared many ways to make this project adaptable to the widest group, with the least impact on your basic version. The main challenge is that the original designers put the expansion connector at the right end. But your panel design allows the needed space for an expansion, at the left end. By using the existing original 2 part back plane layout's wired joint method to add a small 3 spaces PCB on the left, then you have the groundwork in place to fully and easily support a sibilance expansion in one project. The only other true need is for the vocoder label to be vertical. Then after the basic vocoder is complete, you can lay out the 3 add-on boards. Test them and then the sibilance option can be offered. Nobody has to buy twice, and nobody has to wait.
Fitchie
First PCB's delivered !
Prototyping of the backplane will start this evening...

goodrevdoc
This is great news, Fitchie! I would vote for the extended version as well, with P17...
Fitchie
goodrevdoc wrote:
I would vote for the extended version as well...

Even though it was not planned, but given the general requests, I started drawing the 3 extra boards for the extended version.
If you do not order in multiples now (just kidding)...
The MSN Smack!

Preview noise generator:

Fitchie
Noise generator schematics:

Fitchie
And here is the second preview for the Vocoder sibilance expansion, in particular the detecting interface:



The original schematics needs some cleaning, so I'll post them somewhere this afternoon.
Luka
wow that is high parts count noise circuit.

is the sibilance module a voiced / unvoiced detector?
Fitchie
Luka wrote:
wow that is high parts count noise circuit.

A pseudo random noise is generated by four 31-bits shift registers. The clock generator runs on a frequency of 500 kHz what means it takes at least one hour to run through all states.
But you're right, 2 transistors and some discrete components can roughly do the same.

Luka wrote:
is the sibilance module a voiced / unvoiced detector?

Yes, more specific the sibilance expansion is built up of the following parts:

- voiced/unvoiced detector (see previous post)
- white/pink noise generator (see previous post)
- voiced/unvoiced switch (ongoing)

Schematics voiced/unvoiced detector:



Schematics voiced/unvoiced switch:

Fitchie
What do you think about the idea of ​​supplying a number of supports for the backplane?
In this way, the whole set of PCB's can easily be mounted in any 19" cabinet or equivalent.

I was thinking to print the following parts:



These can be mounted with M3 bolts & standoffs to the backplane and secured with double sided adhesive foam tape to the bottom plate of the cabinet.
And next step can be something similar to support all perpendicular PBC's...
Fitchie
This is what I have in mind:

Jarno
That will work.
Depending on the enclosure, you could also add a back wall to it and use simple standoffs.
KSS
If you're planning to 3d print those, you may want to lop off one of the bottom ears, making an L from the T shape. Laid flat it will print much faster. Less expensive if ordered. And be stronger. Fewer screws needed to attach also. Even better, just make it a flat thick panel with the screw holes embedded. Or add cross slots as seen in the pic and use common square or hex nuts.


Another option is to have the PCB fab you what you need. Here's a very rough very quickly sketched solution you can order with the rest of the PCBs. The sketch is unfinished. The blank half is the same as the one with slots and pads. The angled line is either a V-score or a row of dots or slots so the rectangle breaks into two pieces. Put one on either side of four screws with nuts in the slots, and you've got a strong accurate insulating support for your back plane. The pads with holes are for wire to be passed through and soldered both outside faces to preserve the distance between the two parallel supports. The distance between is set by the screw diameter and held once assembled by the soldered wires. With square nuts the wires are mostly just insurance.

The method could be extended with a bottom rectangular plate to match the T style support you shared. But that really wouldn't be necessary. It is already much stronger than any 3d printed part, and grows stronger as the assembly continues. The Bus board themselves will fix the verticality, and every part braces and supports every other part. The accuracy of PCB fab makes for easy, cheap, strong, light attractive parts. You can go crazy with all that empty space graphically, or even add holes for style and to make it lighter, as done with this kind of construction in aircraft and vehicles.

Using PCB in this case probably makes most sense, but you could also do it with a laser cut ply or plastic. Acrylic would not be a first choice as it might tend to crack, but many laser fabs exclude the better and tougher polycarbonate.
Fitchie
Prototype successfully made, printed as a quickie in between.
No drilling, no treading, no additional nuts needed.

Ready to start production!

Boogie
Interesting.

Just wondering how much time does it take to print one ?

Would you be selling these pcb supports as well ?
Fitchie
Boogie wrote:
Just wondering how much time does it take to print one ?

Printing time is roughly based on 3 aspects:

- nozzle size
- layer height
- infill density

I usually print detailed parts (0.25 mm nozzle, 0.1 mm layer height and 50% infill). These settings result in a printing time of about 1 hour.
Printing with larger nozzles (0.50 - 0.60 mm) and thicker layers (0.2 mm - 0.3 mm) reduces drastically the time span.

And of course the parts are not printed one by one, but clustered in blocks of several pieces.

Boogie wrote:
Would you be selling these pcb supports as well ?

The material cost is ridiculously low, so I'll will offer them for free together with the kit.
heapish
Im well interested.
Fitchie
To complete the (almost never ending) series of PCB's, here is the really last one...

Design of the voiced/unvoiced switch:



I'll try to generate and publish the PCB previews tomorrow.
zephyrin
Hello i m discovering this project.

i have start to make my how vocoder a few years ago , The basic vocoder work well but I have an issue in the detection card.




Fitchie do you think to sell PCB's ?
Fitchie
zephyrin wrote:
I have start to make my how vocoder a few years ago. The basic vocoder work well but I have an issue in the detection card.

Well done and nice to share some pictures !
Where did you get the front panel ?

As I did only build the basic model myself, I have no experience with the expansion. But the plan is to build the prototype soon.

zephyrin wrote:
Fitchie do you think to sell PCB's ?

Yes, I would like to offer 2 versions of the Vocoder kit.

Basic version (14 PCB's + frontpanel):
    - Backplane
    - Power supply + cover
    - In/out interface
    - Low pass filter
    - 8 x band filter
    - High pass filter
    - 19" alu frontpanel w/o sibilance drills

Extended version (17 PCB's + frontpanel):
    - All PCB's from the basic version
    - Noise generator
    - Detection interface
    - Commutation interace
    - 19" alu frontpanel w/ sibilance drills
zephyrin
The front Panel come from the case : Hifi2000 slim line


I have design it my self and send it to Schaeffer AG.
goodrevdoc
Looks great, Zephyrin! Super excited about this project It's peanut butter jelly time!
zephyrin
I can try to find the files that allowed me to do the panel and share them with you. For the serigraphy I used the FrontDesigner 3.0.

I remember that the Backpanel (extended backpanel here) must be modified for adding the 3 new cards.

Is the modification present on the PCB ?
Fitchie
zephyrin wrote:
I remember that the Backpanel (extended backpanel here) must be modified for adding the 3 new cards.

Is the modification present on the PCB ?

Yes, the solder side of the backplane foresees the connection between G/H and I/J.
By default those connections are closed, but you can easily (and almost invisible) cut the traces between the connector pins:



I'll edit the silk screen as 'sibilance option cut here'.
No more modifications are required and the same backplane can be used either for the standard model as well the extended version.
zephyrin
you're right, the other change is about components that should not be placed.
it will be easier to have the connexion open and put a jumper if necessary for closing the connexion ?
Fitchie
zephyrin wrote:
iit will be easier to have the connexion open and put a jumper if necessary for closing the connexion ?

Great suggestion, PCB already updated:

Fitchie
As promised here are the last 3 boards !

Detection interface component side (172 mm x 72 mm):



Solder side:

Fitchie
Next one...

Commutation interface component side (172 mm x 72 mm):



Solder side:

Fitchie
En last but not least...

Noise generator component side (172 mm x 72 mm):



Solder side:

zephyrin
Fitchie, do you think about something for helping to fixed the issue.

Tha I remember it 's difficult to check PCB or make the settings when it's plug on the backplane.

I made a cable with a mal and female connector so that the card can be accessible

But the cables are not easy to soldering on the connectors

perhaps we can used 2 small PCB with connectors and box header for wire

Fitchie
zephyrin wrote:
Tha I remember it 's difficult to check PCB or make the settings when it's plug on the backplane.
I made a cable with a mal and female connector so that the card can be accessible
But the cables are not easy to soldering on the connectors
perhaps we can used 2 small PCB with connectors and box header for wire

I assume the new designed PCB's are going to work perfectly. And in advance of selling the kits, there will be sufficient testing. Beside myself, 2 other experienced electronics specialists will build and test the fully assembled device. Only after succeeding those tests, I would like to order a larger batch of PCB's.

If you want to have a small PCB to connect a standard box header to the Conec connectors used on the vocoder cards, please let me know. It is not that difficult to draw one.
zephyrin
Fitchie how do you do for adjusting the pot on the board if the PCB is plug on back panel. I think it's not easy

I have make this cable for that but the cable is very fragile

I think it's no difficult to have to PCB for helping to have a better cable The cable will be connected by box header plug.










For the issue I thinking about people who put the wrong value componement or doing a bad sobering and not about the a trouble in your PCB.
Fitchie
zephyrin wrote:
Fitchie how do you do for adjusting the pot on the board if the PCB is plug on back panel. I think it's not easy.
For the issue I thinking about people who put the wrong value componement or doing a bad sobering and not about the a trouble in your PCB.

Checking and debugging should be performed before mounting the PCB sandwich in the 19" rack.

First PCB to plugin & check is the power supply. After validating all different voltages on the connectors, you can plug in the input/output module somewhere on the left side of the backplane. This allows you to access the board on both the component as well the solder side for debugging and adjusting purposes.

After that start with the low pass filter and subsequently check the band filters one by one. To check the sibilance expansion, put in the low pass filter, the 1200 Hz filter and the high pass filter close to the power supply and insert the remaining PCB's on the left end of the backplane.

Finally plug in all remaining filters in the right position and mount the assembled sandwich in the housing. Together with the kit I'll offer removable plastics mounting parts with double sided foam tape to facilitate the final assembling.

In case you need some adjustement in time, perform some finger gymnastics and use a appropriate tool:

zephyrin
I see that.
I think it's more easy if we can have the PCB outside the back panel with a cable and we don't need to do finger gymnastics smile
Fitchie
zephyrin wrote:
I think it's more easy if we can have the PCB outside the back panel with a cable and we don't need to do finger gymnastics smile

Actually we are getting off-topic, but I did just listed what you need to make a modular extension cable:

- PCB1 (Conec 101E10099X to boxheader layout)
- PCB2 (Conec 102E10079X to boxheader layout)
- 2 x trough hole boxheader 25 pin
- 2 x IDC crimp connector 25 pin
- 1 x Conec 101E10099X
- 1 x Conec 102E10079X
- ribbon cable 25 ways

Rather expensive for a cable that you only need once.

A hand soldered cable finished with cable braid and crimp hose does the job at least as well at a remarkable lower cost.
I have put this together in about 10 minutes:

Fitchie
Anyhow, in the meantime I also have drawn the adapter boards, so here you are:



I do not offer these boards in the kit, neither as separate nor optional item. But feel free to download the Gerber files and order the PCB's according to your own discretion.
These files are not tested in practice, provided as-is. Fabrication or modification is done under your own responsibility.
zephyrin
if header box is 2X25 we need to used a plate cable with 50 wires.

Cable made without solder like this video

https://youtu.be/p1yZKT3Yock
Fitchie
Updated design with 2X12 header, to facilitate the use of a smaller flat cable:



Again not included in the kit, neither as optional part.
Provided as-is, fabrication or modification under own responsibility.
Fitchie
Power supply & cover PCB's also delivered.
The most important parts fit like a charm !

Fitchie
Time for some prototyping, so let's start with the power supply. Some components are missing, but everything fits neatly:





The connector is rock-solid, no need for additional screws or bolts. Of course, the solder side must still be cleaned, but that's planned for later.
Fitchie
Input/output module:





Missing trimmers & capacitors already ordered...
tjs
Wow, for some strange reason I just now found this thread.
Interested in the extended version!
Fitchie
tjs wrote:
Wow, for some strange reason I just now found this thread.
Interested in he extended version!

I'll put you on the list, but please keep an eye on the forum/topic.
Updates will be published after each step.

For now prototyping is ongoing...
tjs
Fitchie wrote:
but please keep an eye on the forum/topic.


Will do wink
Fitchie
Power supply fully assembled, cleaned & tested !



Fitchie
First batch of band filters.
In total 8 + 2 of them are needed.





Some components missing but I'll try to order them this week.
goodrevdoc
This is just the kind of vocoder pr0n my day needed. Glad to see it coming together...
Fitchie
Great news:
Extended backplanes arrived today !

SynthMaffio
Great project!!! While you are doing that, I have to fix my original elektor vocoder built few years ago. It need to be boxed! It's peanut butter jelly time!
Fitchie
SynthMaffio wrote:
I have to fix my original elektor vocoder built few years ago. It need to be boxed! It's peanut butter jelly time!

If you can wait a little, I would like to offer you a 19" frontpanel.
cool

Not final, but this is how the end result will look:

SynthMaffio
Fitchie wrote:
SynthMaffio wrote:
I have to fix my original elektor vocoder built few years ago. It need to be boxed! It's peanut butter jelly time!

If you can wait a little, I would like to offer you a 19" frontpanel.
cool

Not final, but this is how the end result will look:



Thanks for the offer, but I have already planned to include a pin matrix
and some additional functions for my vocoder. razz
Anyway good work! thumbs up
I cannot wait to hear some of your vocoder demo nanners
zephyrin
Do you project to sell PCB in the future and do you have an idea of the price of the kit ?
Fitchie
it's been a while since I posted something, but a lot has happened in the meantime !

All PCB's needed to construct the basic Vocoder have been arrived.
Some boards arrived faster, some a little bit slower due to custom administration, but finally all of them are available.

The basic vocoder will exist of these boards:



From left to right:

- power supply
- AC cover
- input/output module
- extended backplane
- 8 x bandfilter
- low pass filter
- high pass filter

So now it's time to complete them all !
Jarno
Have you added them to the "for sale" section of this forum?
Fitchie
zephyrin wrote:
Do you project to sell PCB in the future and do you have an idea of the price of the kit ?

Jarno wrote:
Have you added them to the "for sale" section of this forum?


I prefer to complete & thoroughly test the prototype first. As soon as the Vocoder is in perfect working condition, PCB kits will be offered.

Given the large number of PCB's pricing will be as follows:

Basic vocoder
    240 € for the 14 PCB kit:
    - power supply
    - AC cover
    - input/output module
    - extended backplane
    - 8 x bandfilter
    - low pass filter
    - high pass filter

Extended vocoder
    290 € for the 17 PCB kit:
    - power supply
    - AC cover
    - input/output module
    - extended backplane
    - 8 x bandfilter
    - low pass filter
    - high pass filter
    - noise generator
    - detection interface
    - switching interface

Remarks
    - 3D printed parts are added as complementary gift in both versions
    - shipping costs depend on location
    - if there is sufficient interest for 20 kits, the prices will drop by 15%.
Fitchie
Backplane (extended version) completed & flawless tested this afternoon!

Here are some pics:





And this picture has been attached as a nostalgic memory:

Fitchie
Extended backplane BOM:
    60 x MCGPR25V106M5X11 MULTICOMP
    Electrolytic Capacitor, 10 µF, 25 V, MCGPR Series, ± 20%, Radial Leaded, 5 mm

    10 x MF50 1K MULTICOMP
    Through Hole Resistor, 1 kohm, MF50 Series, 350 V, Metal Film, Axial Leaded, 500 mW

    1 x MF50 680R MULTICOMP
    Through Hole Resistor, 680 ohm, MF50 Series, 350 V, Metal Film, Axial Leaded, 500 mW

    43 x 243-131 WAGO
    Solder Pin, for Use with WAGO 243 Series PCB Terminal Blocks

    1 x TLLG4400 VISHAY
    LED, Green, Through Hole, T-1 (3mm), 2 mA, 2.4 V, 575 nm

    8 x MRPM030004CB UNBRANDED
    Machine Screw, M3, Metal, 4 mm, Black Oxide, Pan Head Pozidriv

    8 x 05.13.058 ETTINGER
    Standoff, Nickel Plated, Brass, M3, Hex Male-Female, 5 mm, 05.13 Series

    15 x 102E10079X CONEC
    21 PIN Female Connector 102E10079X
Fitchie
No news is good news !
But below posted you can find and update of the Vocoder project.

All 8 band filters including the low & high pass filters are soldered and cleaned. Only a few components are in backorder, but some of them are hard to find.
Because I conscious did chose to use blue (and some yellow) components, I'll wait for the delivery, instead of ordering replacement ones.

Yes, appearance does matter!

This how it looks like:



Zaibach
Simply beautiful! applause

What do you use to clean the boards after soldering? Isopropylene alcohol? Or is there something you would recommend? I have tried it with alcohol but my boards never turned out so clean and shiny as yours.
Fitchie
Zaibach wrote:
Simply beautiful! applause

Thanks !

To clean the PCB's, I use Pro Power PPC120 flux remover. According to the datasheet, the can contains a blend of solvents designed to remove flux residues from PCB's.
I generously spray every PCB and allow the solvent to run off. No further cleaning needed.
zephyrin
Fitchie do you have start to create a list of interrested personns ?
LED-man
Any update ?
Boogie
I know he's been away last week and is about to return today-tomorrow.
EDIT
Will be end of may.
Fitchie
Hi guys,


I'm back from holiday, thanks @Boogie to inform the forum members.

Please find below the I'm in list.
If you are interested in a kit, please copy this list and add your name + basic or extended version.
    1. Name - basic/extended version
    2. Name - basic/extended version
    3. Name - basic/extended version
    4. ...

Kit prices:

Basic vocoder
240 € for the 15 PCB kit:
    - power supply
    - AC cover
    - input/output module
    - extended backplane
    - 8 x bandfilter
    - low pass filter
    - high pass filter
    - 3D printed parts

Extended vocoder
290 € for the 18 PCB kit:
    - power supply
    - AC cover
    - input/output module
    - extended backplane
    - 8 x bandfilter
    - low pass filter
    - high pass filter
    - noise generator
    - detection interface
    - switching interface
    - 3D printed parts

As promised prices will drop by 15% if there is sufficient interest for 20 kits.
efexor
Any news about a frontpanel?
Color?Price?
Fitchie
efexor wrote:
Any news about a frontpanel?
Color?Price?

I'm in contact with forum member Julian to provide a first prototype. Pictures & price will be posted when ready.

The frontpanel will consist of a black anodised aluminium plate with white or light grey printed text.
Something in this style:



The sibiliance option (noise generator and switches) for the extended version will be added on the left side between to power section and low pass section.



I'll try to finish and post the final design this weekend.
yan6
I'm interested in the extended version but am totally confused about what to copy and where to post it hmmm.....
Fitchie
Hi Yan6,

Sorry for the indistinctness.
Actually the idea is just to take the list, copy it, add your name (you are the first one) + chosen model and post it as a reply.


So here you are:

1. Yan6 - extented version
2. ...
pixelforest
1. Yan6 - extented version
2. pixelforest - extended version
[/quote]
Revok
Would it be possible to chain two bus boards to do a 20 band version?
pixelforest
Revok wrote:
Would it be possible to chain two bus boards to do a 20 band version?


Drunken Homer Simpson

hyper applause

can't wait for this, i love vocoding a synth voice with a drum loop in software and it'd be super cool to do it on the modular with something i built myself.
Fitchie
Revok wrote:
Would it be possible to chain two bus boards to do a 20 band version?


That's most likely possible to do.
The backplane provides extra pins (see picture, right side) with all relevant signals, so you can easily chain them together.



But also you have to recalculate all the resistor & capacitor values of the extra filter boards. For this design it was not easy to find the sometimes strange values in through hole (and I'm still waiting for the last ones in backorder), so keep in mind you probably need to use SMD's.
Fitchie
Great news !

The sibilance expansion boards are also delivered last Friday, so all boards are available now !
Components are already ordered so soldering will start in a few days. Pictures follow at completion.



From left to right:
    Detecting board (80068-9)
    Noise generator (80068-8)
    Commutation board (80068-7)
pixelforest
Fitchie wrote:
Revok wrote:
Would it be possible to chain two bus boards to do a 20 band version?


That's most likely possible to do.
The backplane provides extra pins (see picture, right side) with all relevant signals, so you can easily chain them together.

But also you have to recalculate all the resistor & capacitor values of the extra filter boards. For this design it was not easy to find the sometimes strange values in through hole (and I'm still waiting for the last ones in backorder), so keep in mind you probably need to use SMD's.


It could be an interesting weekend eagle project to do a surface mount remix and downsize everything to be able to fit 20 (or more) bands into the same size of case.

I wonder if you could interpolate the filter values from the 10 band spread to get values for the 20 bands, or is that something that would require actually doing the math for each band as an individual...

edit: and for odd values, what about using more commonly available ones in series/parallel to get the odd values desired?
Fitchie
With the unaffordable help of board member Boogie, I'm proud to present the final front panel design:



Forum user Julian will provide the front panel prototype on short notice.

I want to thank both of you !
applause
Revok
Looks great!
acgenerator
Fitchie wrote:
Hi guys,


I'm back from holiday, thanks @Boogie to inform the forum members.

Please find below the I'm in list.
If you are interested in a kit, please copy this list and add your name + basic or extended version.
    1. Name - basic/extended version
    2. Name - basic/extended version
    3. Name - basic/extended version
    4. ...

Kit prices:

Basic vocoder
240 € for the 15 PCB kit:
    - power supply
    - AC cover
    - input/output module
    - extended backplane
    - 8 x bandfilter
    - low pass filter
    - high pass filter
    - 3D printed parts

Extended vocoder
290 € for the 18 PCB kit:
    - power supply
    - AC cover
    - input/output module
    - extended backplane
    - 8 x bandfilter
    - low pass filter
    - high pass filter
    - noise generator
    - detection interface
    - switching interface
    - 3D printed parts

As promised prices will drop by 15% if there is sufficient interest for 20 kits.


I'm awaiting a full BOM to be published (so I know how much I'm in for beyond the PCBs) so I can make an informed decision.

A few demos of the completed machine would be nice too.
Fitchie
acgenerator wrote:
I'm awaiting a full BOM to be published (so I know how much I'm in for beyond the PCBs) so I can make an informed decision.

A few demos of the completed machine would be nice too.

My soldering iron has no time te cool down, the really last (!) PCB will be populated today. For now I've only fragmented BOM's (Farnell, Mouser & RS) but as soon as all components are in place, I'll merge the lists to obtain a complete component overview. Based on the orders I placed for the prototype, the estimated component cost will be less than 350 euro.

Off course demos will be posted. :-)
I am also curious how everything is going to sound. Hopefully not too much debugging has to be performed.
Fitchie
Sibilance PCB's populated.

From left to right:
    - detection interface
    - switching interface
    - noise generator



All in cool blue, appearance does matter!

No errors or issues found on all sibilance boards, 2 silkscreen typo's not taken into consideration.
This milestone means that all boards are populated and ready for final assembly.
zephyrin
1. Yan6 - extented version
2. pixelforest - extended version
3. zephyrin - extended version
Swyndger
1. Yan6 - extented version
2. pixelforest - extended version
3. zephyrin - extended version
4. Swyndger - extended version
m0d01
Swyndger wrote:
1. Yan6 - extented version
2. pixelforest - extended version
3. zephyrin - extended version
4. Swyndger - extended version


5. m0d01 - extended version
Fitchie
Other board members wrote:
1. Yan6 - extented version
2. pixelforest - extended version
3. zephyrin - extended version
4. Swyndger - extended version
5. m0d01 - extended version

All, thanks for your interest in this kit.

Just a quick update about the progress:

- Backordered capacitors with uncommon values finally delivered, so all filters are near completion, no more components are missing;
- Since Julian is renovating his house and he is 100% focussing doing that job, the initial planned frontpanel has some delay (no offence mate);
- As mitigation I did order a prototype frontpanel at Schaeffer, expected delivery date will be July 11-12-13;
- After a long search, I finally found some knobs that met my expectation.

Pictures will follow as soon as the frontpanel & knobs have arrived.
AonFLuX
I am interested in an extended perhaps.. But would like to hear it before I put my name up. This looks like an amazing project!
nidas
1. Yan6 - extented version
2. pixelforest - extended version
3. zephyrin - extended version
4. Swyndger - extended version
5. m0d01 - extended version

nidas - extended version
shogeki
Oh wow, I have had a scan of the original French article laying around my workbench for years and never got around printing the boards and sourcing components.

Put me down for an extended version!
LED-man
1. Yan6 - extented version
2. pixelforest - extended version
3. zephyrin - extended version
4. Swyndger - extended version
5. m0d01 - extended version
6. LED-man - extended version


I’ll build this great vocoder and all docs and build infos, pictures on my website.
I know fitchie aka Raoul since few years, we shared a knowledge about the TTSH project.

It’s time to push this project, because there are not many DIY vocoder on the market.
Fitchie
LED-man wrote:
I’ll build this great vocoder and all docs and build infos, pictures on my website.
I know fitchie aka Raoul since few years, we shared a knowledge about the TTSH project.

All,

Great news !
To speed up things, LED-man aka Patrick is offering his holiday time to be the first kit-tester.
Depending on his experience and feedback, the kit will be released autumn 2018.

All PCB's together as shipped today to Germany:

Fitchie
Frontpanel delivered !

Not that cheap as from some competitors, but excellent Schaeffer quality as we are used to.
Even the packaging is extremely professional. The panel is vacuum-drawn on a cardboard sheet.



For clarification:

- 4 mm aluminium panel, standard 19" width, along with mounting holes
- Black anodised, white overprint, UV cured
- Threaded to facilitate flush mounted jacks and potentiometers without counter nuts.

I'll assemble some pots, knobs & leds this afternoon to check if everything fits. Pictures will follow later...
Fitchie
And here are the pictures...







I now realize more and more how extensive this project is.
But with the end so near, there's no reason to return. :-)
Fitchie
Switches does fit as well without visible nut:

Fitchie
Quick update:

To support US enthusiasts as well musicians from other countries where the mains tension is 110 volts, I did redesign the power supply based on a Block FL14/15 14VA transformer.
This transformer has a 2 x 110VAC connection, so depending on the bridged solder pads (as seen at right bottom side of the PCB), the power supply is suitable as well in Europa as in the US.

Prototype PCB's already ordered...

Wolfo!
1. Yan6 - extented version
2. pixelforest - extended version
3. zephyrin - extended version
4. Swyndger - extended version
5. m0d01 - extended version
6. LED-man - extended version
7. Wolfo! - extended version
Fitchie
Great news !
Julian is back on business, he did send me a picture of the fresh made Vocoder frontpanel.

As test we decided to use white ink for the text labels & orange ink for the dividing lines, the below uploaded picture does only show the white print for now.
Crispy sharp, nice job !

yan6
Is there a proposed chassis solution as well
Fitchie
yan6 wrote:
Is there a proposed chassis solution as well

Hi Yan6,

A black powdercoated 19" 2U steel chassis is foreseen to fit the frontpanel. Small slits are applied in the cover for ventilation purposes.
The inside mounting will be based on 3D printed PCB supports, for details see some previous posts.

This is the housing as I have in mind:



I did order 2 cases to see and judge them in real life.
As soon as they have been arrived, detailed pictures will be posted.

And this is the inside mounting:

julian
I have used a number of those cases in the past.

The good point is that they're are very slightly wider internally than similar units, and, much more importantly, have a completely flat front panel that can be replaced.

The down side is that the back and sides are one folded bit of steel. It's a pain to cut. Those qmax punches just about do them but you feel like you're overdoing it, and abusing the tool.

For a simple IEC then drilling the hole with a load of circles, and then filing out the edge works, but the cases work best with projects that do not need much on the rear (so probably suite this job fairly well)

They're also not the prettiest of parts (often scuffed etc), but they're in a rack, so you need to be quite fussy to care.
julian
Note, they come in two depths also, so you need to make sure you order the correct one (if the project needs depth)
Fitchie
julian wrote:
The down side is that the back and sides are one folded bit of steel. It's a pain to cut.

On the backside, only the power connector should be drilled or punched out, all the other connections are foreseen on the frontpanel.
So luckily metal cutting is limited to that.

julian wrote:
Note, they come in two depths also, so you need to make sure you order the correct one (if the project needs depth).

I did order the 300 mm version.
Given the PCB's are 180 mm + backplane + connectors, there is plenty space to facilitate building & cabling activities.

And also not unimportant, the price is pretty affordable.
thumbs up
AonFLuX
1. Yan6 - extented version
2. pixelforest - extended version
3. zephyrin - extended version
4. Swyndger - extended version
5. m0d01 - extended version
6. LED-man - extended version
7. Wolfo! - extended version
8. AonFluX - extended version
shogeki
AonFLuX wrote:
1. Yan6 - extented version
2. pixelforest - extended version
3. zephyrin - extended version
4. Swyndger - extended version
5. m0d01 - extended version
6. LED-man - extended version
7. Wolfo! - extended version
8. AonFluX - extended version



1. Yan6 - extented version
2. pixelforest - extended version
3. zephyrin - extended version
4. Swyndger - extended version
5. m0d01 - extended version
6. LED-man - extended version
7. Wolfo! - extended version
8. AonFluX - extended version
9. shogeki - extended version
Fitchie
Fitchie wrote:
I did order 2 cases to see and judge them in real life.
As soon as they have been arrived, detailed pictures will be posted.

And here they are !

I'm very satisfied: nice quality, nice black painting.
And last but not least, the unit cost is really affordable.



Fitchie
First assembly:
PCB's, power supply, backplane, frontpanel and housing nicely fuse together into the prototype.

yan6
Clap what a thing of beauty, really nice work!! I can't wait to hear it.
Fitchie
yan6 wrote:
Clap what a thing of beauty, really nice work!! I can't wait to hear it.

Thanks for your nice appreciation !
I spend all my free time on this project, so it really feels nice to get these kind of feedback.
khakifridge
yan6 wrote:
Clap what a thing of beauty, really nice work!! I can't wait to hear it.


+1 Looks amazing.
LektroiD
Looks like a great project...
Fitchie
Thanks all for your feedback !

Beside the mounting brackets for the backplane as introduced in a previous post, I did also design an accessory to keep the PCB's at the right distance and to secure them in the housing.
The underlying idea is to stick those accessories with double sided neoprene tape to the bottom of the housing without drilling holes. Moreover the PCB's are easy removable for trouble shooting and finetuning.



The printer is buzzing for some hours. Pictures will follow after completion...
Fitchie
2 sets of 3D-printed mounting brackets and accessories ready to install:



I'll try to post some pictures of the completed assembly tonight.
Fitchie
Mounting brackets and accessories to space and secure the PCB's ready and installed.

The brackets for the backplane (4 pc) and sliders for the PCB's (3 pc) are included in the kit.

Some pictures of the result:





Synth Con Meo
I need another project like a hole in the head. I still have a TTSH that I bought about 2 years ago, 1601 Sequencer, Syncussion drum module on top of a few Euro modules that I need to build. But this is very intriguing and has my interest piqued. I am also in the mindset that I want to hear it before I make my decision. Looks awesome.
Fitchie
Synth Con Meo wrote:
But this is very intriguing and has my interest piqued. I am also in the mindset that I want to hear it before I make my decision. Looks awesome.

We are making good progress, but please have a little extra patience. eek!

My intention is to power on the almost completed prototype very soon and Patrick aka Ledman is official promoted to be the first kit tester.
As he is famous for his fast and accurate work (Deutsche Grundligkeit), his device will also be ready within some weeks.

As soon as the vocoder performs as designed, we will no doubt post many samples, movies, demo's, ...

A total of 20 kits will be offered once any possible error is solved and we are convinced the vocoder can be rebuilt by the average hobbyist. To support this goal, the high quality PCB's are reasonably spacious and only through hole components are used. A complete photo building guide is in preparation. And also the total number of components is fairly limited:
    - 400 resistors
    - 250 capacitors
    - 70 diodes
    - 20 leds
    - 30 transistors
    - 70 IC's
    - 15 potentiometers & knobs
    - 30 trimmers
    - 30 Conec connectors
    - 25 audio female jacks
    - 1 transformer
As the interest list shows that everyone chooses the extended version, I will not longer offer/support the basic version. And if another 10 enthusiasts put their name on the interest list, as promised prices will drop by 15%. cool

In that case the extended vocoder kit price will be 240 € for the 17 PCB kit:
    - power supply
    - AC cover
    - input/output module
    - extended backplane
    - 8 x bandfilter
    - low pass filter
    - high pass filter
    - noise generator
    - detection interface
    - switching interface
In addition a finishing kit will be offered for 160 €. This kit contains:
    - black anodised aluminum frontpanel
    - all needed 3D-printed mounting parts
    - 19" black painted steel case
LED-man
I just started 3 of 8 Bandpassfilter.
It’s an easy job.
Raoul used a good spaceleading for all parts.
Pcb quality is fine too.
I used polypropylene capacitors for the Filters, the total costs depends on this.


gipsycat
1. Yan6 - extented version
2. pixelforest - extended version
3. zephyrin - extended version
4. Swyndger - extended version
5. m0d01 - extended version
6. LED-man - extended version
7. Wolfo! - extended version
8. AonFluX - extended version
9. shogeki - extended version
10. gipsycat- extended version x 2
RadekTymecki
1. Yan6 - extented version
2. pixelforest - extended version
3. zephyrin - extended version
4. Swyndger - extended version
5. m0d01 - extended version
6. LED-man - extended version
7. Wolfo! - extended version
8. AonFluX - extended version
9. shogeki - extended version
10. gipsycat- extended version x 2
11. RadekTymecki - extended version
Fitchie
All,

From a highly appreciated forum member I got a private message with some meaningful questions.
I think these are useful to everyone, so below I did list them:

Member wrote:
whats the cost of the kit?

The extended vocoder kit price will be 240 € for the 17 PCB kit:
- power supply
- AC cover
- input/output module
- extended backplane
- 8 x bandfilter
- low pass filter
- high pass filter
- noise generator
- detection interface
- switching interface

The finishing kit will be offered for 160 € including:
- black anodised aluminum frontpanel
- all needed 3D-printed mounting parts
- 19" black coated steel case

Member wrote:
whats the parts cost?

Actually this is unknown for the moment, my apologies.
For prototyping I did order that many components that many times, so I'm totally lost what I have spent neither what components finally I exactly did use.

The total number of components is fairly limited:
- 400 resistors
- 250 capacitors
- 70 diodes
- 20 leds
- 30 transistors
- 70 IC's & sockets
- 15 potentiometers & knobs
- 30 trimmers
- 30 Conec connectors
- 25 audio female jacks
- 1 mains voltage transformer

As a rough estimate you should think about 350 €, also depending on the tolerance of the chosen capacitors.

Member wrote:
can all parts be purchased from mouser?

Probably not all opamps/IC's are available from Mouser, some of them should be ordered as new old stock ones.
Among others:
- TL084 (20 pc)
- 741 (10 pc)
- CA3080 (3 pc)

We are currently experimenting with replacement types.

Member wrote:
is there a mouser BOM?

Not yet, but as soon as the components list is validated, a complete Mouser bom will be available.
At that moment we are able to forecast the exact components price.

Most likely a group buy will be organised, consequently the price will be a little better.

Member wrote:
what is approximate assembly time?

Depending on your skills, but for the average hobbyist I suspect a construction time of 2 hours for each PCB.
Added together gives this a building time of 32 hours to stuff all PCB's. You can also count some extra hours to assemble and wire the frontpanel.

Some enthusisasts will of course be able to do this much faster. :-)
Zaibach
1. Yan6 - extented version
2. pixelforest - extended version
3. zephyrin - extended version
4. Swyndger - extended version
5. m0d01 - extended version
6. LED-man - extended version
7. Wolfo! - extended version
8. AonFluX - extended version
9. shogeki - extended version
10. gipsycat- extended version x 2
11. RadekTymecki - extended version
12. Zaibach - extended version
LED-man
Haralds:Werk wrote:
The connectors are industrial standard. DIN41617
Search for "Federlesite 21L" at www.reichelt.de

But if memory serves the capacitor values used in the filters are uncommon today. You might need to recalculate them. And have a look at Dirk Lindhofs work. He already build one and sells them. http://synthlab.de/elektor-vocoder.html


All capacitor values are still available from mouser and digikey.
Fitchie
Short update:

Today I did populate the power supply production PCB as final test before offering on the market.
In the meantime pictures will be taken to complete the build guide.

Prototype power supply versus production power supply:



Not that much difference, but some important updates:

- the power supply is now also suitable for 110 VAC regions
- not visible on the above picture but the traces are remarkably bigger as before
Faustgeist
PM send smile
Faustgeist
1. Yan6 - extended version
2. pixelforest - extended version
3. zephyrin - extended version
4. Swyndger - extended version
5. m0d01 - extended version
6. LED-man - extended version
7. Wolfo! - extended version
8. AonFluX - extended version
9. shogeki - extended version
10. gipsycat- extended version x 2
11. RadekTymecki - extended version
12. Zaibach - extended version
13. Faustgeist - extended version + Finishing kit
Zaibach
Oh, do we also register interest for the finishing kit as well? In that case:

1. Yan6 - extended version
2. pixelforest - extended version
3. zephyrin - extended version
4. Swyndger - extended version
5. m0d01 - extended version
6. LED-man - extended version
7. Wolfo! - extended version
8. AonFluX - extended version
9. shogeki - extended version
10. gipsycat- extended version x 2
11. RadekTymecki - extended version
12. Zaibach - extended version + Finishing kit
13. Faustgeist - extended version + Finishing kit
Synth Con Meo
My interest is growing with this, is there an update on how close we are to actually hear/see a video of this? More than likely I will throw my name on the list for the whole shebang (extended + Finishing kit) but really want to see it in action before I jump on the wagon.

Thanks
Fitchie
Synth Con Meo wrote:
My interest is growing with this, is there an update on how close we are to actually hear/see a video of this? More than likely I will throw my name on the list for the whole shebang (extended + Finishing kit) but really want to see it in action before I jump on the wagon.

Thanks for your interest.

The plan was to power on the vocoder for the first time last weekend, but there was still an error on the backplane to be solved first.
It looks like the backplane and power supply are fine now, so next step is assembling and switching on. Initially with only the in/out module connected, afterwards with the band filters. Likely this is foreseen for next weekend. Also Ledman is finishing a prototype, near completion. Maybe he succeeds in posting some audio fragments even faster.

Anyhow first video's and audio samples will be posted in the upcoming weeks. Does anyone feel called to use his voice? hmmm.....
LED-man
i changed the Frontpanel for my prototyp to 2.5mm thickness to use Cliff 3.5mm jacks and Gold Panel.
i wait on the powersupply pcb from Raoul, then i can test all pcbs too.
in the prototyp testing process, we figured out few small issues and fixed this.

Fitchie
Short update:

Today I did populate the backplane production PCB as final test before offering on the market.
In the meantime pictures will be taken to complete the build guide.

Production backplane versus prototype backplane:



Not visible on the picture, but the following errors are corrected:

- polarity negative caps corrected on silkscreen
- trace rerouted to distribute the noise output
Fitchie
The negative power bus is now also ok:

Boogie
hey Fitchie

Thanks for passing by for a first analysis of the vocoder filters.
I quickly scanned the filters with a white noise generator.
Even with the 5% caps, one another looks pretty good.
I haven't been able to test the High Pass yet.

I 'll redo the test in the coming days with either a slow sweep or a chirp.

As I now see your back plane in front of me with the filters plugged in,
I would even consider to do a 19 channel vocoder. The only thing you would have to update is the backplane, and add 9 filter PCBs.
Of course in that case all filters have to be recalculated, but that's not the worst ting to do.

Filterplot allready looks nice.

Fitchie
Hi Boogie,


I'm quite happy to see the filters are doing their job in the right frequency spectrum.
So works as designed. wink

You did do job that very quickly, I'm impressed! Thanks for the professional approach, very much appreciated.
How did you manage to plot all filter characteristics on one channel?

In the original publication of this vocoder in 1980, Elektor did make a similar montage, but at that time on an analog spectrum analyser:

Boogie
hey Fitchie
Here's an update.

The screendump below is from True RTA (licenced version)
Thus an Audio analyser, not a spectrum analyser. Settings are 1/24 octave.

It shows each channel Voice and Carrier filter on top of eachother (in same color)
Vertical deviation (about max 1.5 db within a channel) comes from the R's.
Horizontal shift comes from the filter time constants, thus tolerances on C's and R's.

Given the fact that you did not use any special caps, this is a very very good result, and indicates that for a 10 channel vocoder, there's no need for accurate (read expensive) 1% or 2% caps.

The ripples in the graphs below 1kHz, are noisegen artifacts.

The humm, well... that's hum.
Unfortunately, I ran out of memory channels to dump traces to, I would have plotted the ambiant signal (system setup noise floor) as well.

Boogie
Fitchie

I've added an updated graph with the noise baseline in blue at the bottom of the graph.
This is an actual measurement, not saved in a memory, this way I could overlay the system noise.
For absolute level correctness, all signals should shift 10dB up.

LED-man


Zaibach
Well, I'm not into gold panels that much, but THAT is beautiful!
LED-man
Zaibach wrote:
Well, I'm not into gold panels that much, but THAT is beautiful!


My little son really likes gold and it looks more like an professional studio device like expensive compressors, effects.
Fitchie
Boogie wrote:

I've added an updated graph with the noise baseline in blue at the bottom of the graph.


Really cool !

I'm glad to see that all filters are very well matched with the 5% capacitors.
Also nice to see is the 3 dB/octave increase in the noise baseline.
Boogie
Hey Fitchie

To overcome the assymetry causd by the high pass filter,
You may wish to update the schematic with some new values

Modified HP in simulation result below.

Fitchie
@Boogie

Both your input as well your knowledge are of an unprecedented level, such a super cool graph !
So thanks again for your advice.

I did investigate the caps in the other band pass filters and after interpolation it looks like the 1 nF caps are a bit too big.
As I do have 820 pF caps available, likely they are good candidates for substitution.
What value did you use in the simulation?

Nice plans for the weekend, will keep you posted !!!

Boogie
@Fitchie

Quote:
As I do have 820 pF caps available, likely they are good candidates for substitution.

820pF will do just fine.
Boogie
Hello all,

below a demo as the result of having an afternoon full of fun.

It's Fitchie's vocoder in very basic config.
That is:
    Basic vocoder without Sibiliance Expansion
    Only 8 band pass filters, a high pass filter and a low pass filter
    The speech source is an excerpt of Harry Potter 'The sourcerer's stone'
    The carrier is a live improvised string synth.
The recording plays the natural spoken text first and then this same text vocoded on several chords.

[s]https://soundcloud.com/boo-gie-879149310/vocoder-demo1[/s]
spotta
Time to add my name to the list!

1. Yan6 - extended version
2. pixelforest - extended version
3. zephyrin - extended version
4. Swyndger - extended version
5. m0d01 - extended version
6. LED-man - extended version
7. Wolfo! - extended version
8. AonFluX - extended version
9. shogeki - extended version
10. gipsycat- extended version x 2
11. RadekTymecki - extended version
12. Zaibach - extended version + Finishing kit
13. Faustgeist - extended version + Finishing kit
15. Spotta - extended version + finishing kit.
Fitchie
Boogie wrote:
below a demo as the result of having an afternoon full of fun

Without any doubt it was fun ! :-)
Vocoders still remain funny devices, especially when you make them yourself.

I am really satisfied with those first results, mainly because no sibilance extension is connected yet. The P117 potentiometer connected to the high pass filter to mix high tones and articulation does a good job, the intelligibility is almost perfect. So that promises when the sibiliance extension will be connected soon.

I am now starting to assemble everything neatly in the 19" housing.
Pictures will follow.
Boogie
Hey Fitchie,

I thought you might be interested in this Envelope signal driving one of the filters.

LED-man
All pcbs are ready, except PSU.. thanks to Post and DPD for the delay and lost package.

Fitchie
Fantastic news !

I got a really nice quote from the PCB manufacturer for 50 vocoder PCB sets, so the order with a total of 850 PCB's has been placed.
wink

With great pleasure I can offer a new and irresistible price !

140 € for the full 17 PCB kit:

- power supply
- AC cover
- input/output module
- extended backplane
- 8 x bandfilter
- low pass filter
- high pass filter
- noise generator
- detection interface
- switching interface

This is what you get:



Orders will be taken now, so please add your name to the list.
Delivery based on first come, first served.

Closing date 30/09/2018 !

Shipping is scheduled for October, the processing of your order is based on your position on the list.
Shipping cost is location related and will be calculated case by case.

The finishing kit (19" front panel, 19" case, 3D printed parts) will be offered as option during the ordering process.
More information about ordering will follow later.

Interest list:

1. Yan6
2. pixelforest
3. zephyrin
4. Swyndger
5. m0d01
6. LED-man
7. Wolfo!
8. AonFluX
9. shogeki
10. gipsycat (set 1)
11. gipsycat (set 2)
12. RadekTymecki
13. Zaibach
14. Faustgeist
15. Spotta
16. jplafond
17. Distapro
Swyndger
Grerat news. I am definitely in ...
Synth Con Meo
Ok I am in:

Interest list:

1. Yan6
2. pixelforest
3. zephyrin
4. Swyndger
5. m0d01
6. LED-man
7. Wolfo!
8. AonFluX
9. shogeki
10. gipsycat (set 1)
11. gipsycat (set 2)
12. RadekTymecki
13. Zaibach
14. Faustgeist
15. Spotta
16. jplafond
17. Distapro
18. Synth Con Meo
Druckman
Such a cool project and thread!!
stevesavage
Please can I add my name to the list!

Great project!

Thanks

Steve savage
Fitchie
Interest list:

1. Yan6
2. pixelforest
3. zephyrin
4. Swyndger
5. m0d01
6. LED-man
7. Wolfo!
8. AonFluX
9. shogeki
10. gipsycat (set 1)
11. gipsycat (set 2)
12. RadekTymecki
13. Zaibach
14. Faustgeist
15. Spotta
16. jplafond
17. Distapro
18. Synth Con Meo
19. stevesavage

Who will be number 20 ?
Cheesy!
GingerCoke
Fitchie wrote:
Interest list:

1. Yan6
2. pixelforest
3. zephyrin
4. Swyndger
5. m0d01
6. LED-man
7. Wolfo!
8. AonFluX
9. shogeki
10. gipsycat (set 1)
11. gipsycat (set 2)
12. RadekTymecki
13. Zaibach
14. Faustgeist
15. Spotta
16. jplafond
17. Distapro
18. Synth Con Meo
19. stevesavage

Who will be number 20 ?
Cheesy!


Me! Number 20 hihi
AonFLuX
Super-price! Good work
jersupereq
That new price we're not worthy Really struggling not to order one considering my backlog
teleport
I'm in!

Interest list:

1. Yan6
2. pixelforest
3. zephyrin
4. Swyndger
5. m0d01
6. LED-man
7. Wolfo!
8. AonFluX
9. shogeki
10. gipsycat (set 1)
11. gipsycat (set 2)
12. RadekTymecki
13. Zaibach
14. Faustgeist
15. Spotta
16. jplafond
17. Distapro
18. Synth Con Meo
19. stevesavage
20. GingerCoke
21. teleport

(edit : just read through the recent thread, and saw that there are 20 kits offered, so I'd like to be on the wait-list or if there are any extras - this looks like a beautifully executed project)
Fitchie
teleport wrote:
I'm in!
Just read through the recent thread, and saw that there are 20 kits offered, so I'd like to be on the wait-list or if there are any extras - this looks like a beautifully executed project

Thanks for your nice feedback!

The quote I got from the PCB manufacturer was for 50 vocoder PCB sets, with smaller quantities I was not able to reduce the price that much.
The order has already been placed, so I can confirm you are in. I took the risk for 50 PCB sets, but having a few sets in stock for future builders is not that bad.

On the other hand the optional finishing kits will be ordered end September as soon as I know the exact quantities.

So this it he list for now:

1. Yan6
2. pixelforest
3. zephyrin
4. Swyndger
5. m0d01
6. LED-man
7. Wolfo!
8. AonFluX
9. shogeki
10. gipsycat (set 1)
11. gipsycat (set 2)
12. RadekTymecki
13. Zaibach
14. Faustgeist
15. Spotta
16. jplafond
17. Distapro
18. Synth Con Meo
19. stevesavage
20. GingerCoke
21. teleport
22. ...

The more the merrier !
love
zephyrin
Good news for the new price.

Will there also be a bulk purchase for the components?
Fitchie
zephyrin wrote:
Will there also be a bulk purchase for the components?

Probably LED-man will organise a (rare) component group buy. We have spoken about this by phone, but there is no final decision yet.
He will certainly respond to this topic if he will organize such a group buy.
pixelforest
glad to be number two on the list
EdBrock
I'm in for the extended version and finishing kit

EdBrock
jersupereq
Alright, I’ve caved. Add me to the list Dead Banana
Fitchie
Update 08/09/18:

1. Yan6
2. pixelforest
3. zephyrin
4. Swyndger
5. m0d01
6. LED-man
7. Wolfo!
8. AonFluX
9. shogeki
10. gipsycat (set 1)
11. gipsycat (set 2)
12. RadekTymecki
13. Zaibach
14. Faustgeist
15. Spotta
16. jplafond
17. Distapro
18. Synth Con Meo
19. stevesavage
20. GingerCoke
21. teleport
22. EdBrock
23. jersupereq
Fitchie
Because all PCB's are tested and adjusted, it's time for final assembly and cabling.

After preparation the 19" case and sticking the 3D printed supporting parts to the bottom plate, the meticulous cable work is completed step by step.
This is a labor-intensive task, especially if you want to keep everything tidy.



The 'long white wire' in the middle connects the optional potentiometer P17 to mix unvocoded high tones with the vocoded output to improve intelligibility.
On the production boards this connection is also provided on the outer side of the PCB.
Level5
Fitchie wrote:
Update 08/09/18:

1. Yan6
2. pixelforest
3. zephyrin
4. Swyndger
5. m0d01
6. LED-man
7. Wolfo!
8. AonFluX
9. shogeki
10. gipsycat (set 1)
11. gipsycat (set 2)
12. RadekTymecki
13. Zaibach
14. Faustgeist
15. Spotta
16. jplafond
17. Distapro
18. Synth Con Meo
19. stevesavage
20. GingerCoke
21. teleport
22. EdBrock
23. jersupereq


I'm in
24. Level5

I have an unbuild old Original-Kit from this Vocoder and the original build-instructions from Elektor.
With the old pcb's I will build more filters
Yaruna
Please, one set for me ;-)
Fwestivus
This looks great! I'm definitely in for both extended kit and finishing kit.
jaidee
One Extended kit and Finishing kit for me please.
Revok
This price is too good. Put me down for a full kit. Thanks for all of the hard work. The demo sounds awesome.
Modulart_JP
Count me in for 1 extended kit + finishing kit...
Dead Banana
Fitchie
Hi guys !
Thanks for your appreciation !

Here is the updated list:

1. Yan6
2. pixelforest
3. zephyrin
4. Swyndger
5. m0d01
6. LED-man
7. Wolfo!
8. AonFluX
9. shogeki
10. gipsycat (set 1)
11. gipsycat (set 2)
12. RadekTymecki
13. Zaibach
14. Faustgeist
15. Spotta
16. jplafond
17. Distapro
18. Synth Con Meo
19. stevesavage
20. GingerCoke
21. teleport
22. EdBrock
23. jersupereq
24. Level5
25. Yaruna
26. Fwestivus
27. jaidee
28. Revok
29. Modulart_JP

Who will be number 30 ?
applause
Fitchie
NEW DEMO

Some fun with vocoded chatbots:

[s]https://soundcloud.com/user-590053363/vocoder-demo-1[/s]
The band filters must still be fine-tuned, occasionally the speech is too brutally addressed. But you already get a good impression of what the vocoder is capable to do.

This is a pure recording without post-processing.
The first bars you will hear the original speech with some chords in the background, after that only the vocoded speech is mixed in.

It is funny to use different carriers, this gives very varied results. I will post some other examples this week...
rosch
Fitchie wrote:
Hi guys !
Thanks for your appreciation !

Here is the updated list:

1. Yan6
2. pixelforest
3. zephyrin
4. Swyndger
5. m0d01
6. LED-man
7. Wolfo!
8. AonFluX
9. shogeki
10. gipsycat (set 1)
11. gipsycat (set 2)
12. RadekTymecki
13. Zaibach
14. Faustgeist
15. Spotta
16. jplafond
17. Distapro
18. Synth Con Meo
19. stevesavage
20. GingerCoke
21. teleport
22. EdBrock
23. jersupereq
24. Level5
25. Yaruna
26. Fwestivus
27. jaidee
28. Revok
29. Modulart_JP

Who will be number 30 ?
applause


Me. Including the case and 3d printed parts kit
hihi
Zaibach
I am very sad to say this, but I have to step back from this project - for now at least. My car needs some repairs and - you know where this is going - there's nothing I can do but to get it fixed very frustrating . Maybe later this year if there's a set left... Hope I can build this someday waah
Fitchie
10 days to go !
Here is the updated list:

1. Yan6
2. pixelforest
3. zephyrin
4. Swyndger
5. m0d01
6. LED-man
7. Wolfo!
8. AonFluX
9. shogeki
10. gipsycat (set 1)
11. gipsycat (set 2)
12. RadekTymecki
13. Faustgeist
14. Spotta
15. jplafond
16. Distapro
17. Synth Con Meo
18. stevesavage
19. GingerCoke
20. teleport
21. EdBrock
22. jersupereq
23. Level5
24. Yaruna
25. Fwestivus
26. jaidee
27. Revok
28. Modulart_JP
29. Girts23
30. Rosch
Altitude909
I'm in. Please add me to the list
sleepybongo
Hi,

This is an awesome project!

I'm in for the extended kit and the finishing kit.
dnode
Big compliments on your beautiful project, Fitchie!

I'd really like an extended version including finishing kit, could you put me on the list, please?
bsilverberg
Please add me, bsilverberg, for the full extended vocoder kit as well as the finishing kit. Thank you!
Fitchie
All,

Thanks again for your nice feedback.

Mission completed after 9 months !
So well in time to place under your Christmas tree.
spinning

This is the fully assembled and tested device :

decoder303
I'd take a pcb set too please nanners

1. Yan6
2. pixelforest
3. zephyrin
4. Swyndger
5. m0d01
6. LED-man
7. Wolfo!
8. AonFluX
9. shogeki
10. gipsycat (set 1)
11. gipsycat (set 2)
12. RadekTymecki
13. Faustgeist
14. Spotta
15. jplafond
16. Distapro
17. Synth Con Meo
18. stevesavage
19. GingerCoke
20. teleport
21. EdBrock
22. jersupereq
23. Level5
24. Yaruna
25. Fwestivus
26. jaidee
27. Revok
28. Modulart_JP
29. Girts23
30. Rosch
31. decoder303
DIY-MMS
Hey....

for me please also the full 17 PCB kit - Thanks

....
32. DIY-MMS (Matt)
Fitchie
Consolidated list:

1. Yan6
2. pixelforest
3. zephyrin
4. Swyndger
5. m0d01
6. LED-man
7. Wolfo!
8. AonFluX
9. shogeki
10. gipsycat (set 1)
11. gipsycat (set 2)
12. RadekTymecki
13. Faustgeist
14. Spotta
15. jplafond
16. Distapro
17. Synth Con Meo
18. stevesavage
19. GingerCoke
20. teleport
21. EdBrock
22. jersupereq
23. Level5
24. Yaruna
25. Fwestivus
26. jaidee
27. Revok
28. Modulart_JP
29. Girts23
30. Rosch
31. Altitude909
32. sleepybongo
33. dnode
34. bsilverberg
35. decoder303
36. DIY-MMS (Matt)
elmegil
My God the sound is brilliant. So much better than other DIY vocoders....


Maybe if I call it my Christmas present my wife will forgive me? :-)

I'm in.
gianni
I'm in! At this price I can't resist hihi
Mangoest
I am in, based in BRUSSELS

Thanks
Delabelle
Hello,

Can you put me on the list please smile

Thx,
Alfrede
Hello,

if it´s possible i want to the list too.

Thx

Alfrede
grenert
I don't have the time or space for this project, but I have to say that it sounds fantastic! Great work! we're not worthy
Croodey
im in please
Fitchie
All,


Now that the vocoder is ready to use, it is time to compile and publish all relevant project related documentation.

So I have launched a brand new website with the aim of providing a building guide to the average DIY builder.
Not all topics are already covered, but the main navigation and the first 4 building descriptions are meanwhile published. The remaining ones will follow later.

Please have a look:
www.vocoder.eu


Feedback is greatly appreciated.
Swyndger
Very good.
So we will get a very nice building guide.
But the next thing we need is a BOM to start searching for all the rare parts we need wink
Does the vocoder still need 10 CA3080 ?
Fitchie
Swyndger wrote:
But the next thing we need is a BOM to start searching for all the rare parts we need wink

The BOM... That's another thing on my to-do list. Literally about 100 notes are swinging around with part numbers, changed values, swapped IC's, ... The good thing is that I only ordered at Farnell & Mouser, so the consolidation is going to be a tough job, but fortunately feasible due to the maintained documentation during construction and debugging.

Swyndger wrote:
Does the vocoder still need 10 CA3080 ?

Yes it does, actually you have to source 12 pieces (10 for the band filters, another 2 for the sibilance expansion). All other components are available through the normal points of sale.
elmegil
depending on how many, it might be worth someone calling Mouser for a quote on these:

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Renesas-Intersil/CA3080EZ?qs=sGAE piMZZMtDSiRz%252bYolvPL%2fEV6JJUMuZuavK1o18TY%3d

So far we have 42 people (I think) times 12 is 504, so it ought to be feasible to have a MOQ of somewhere north of 500. If all 50 are spoken for, that's 600, and depending on spares (if it was me I'd order 15), that's as many as 750.
Fitchie
elmegil wrote:
Depending on how many, it might be worth someone calling Mouser for a quote on these:

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Renesas-Intersil/CA3080EZ?qs=sGAE piMZZMtDSiRz%252bYolvPL%2fEV6JJUMuZuavK1o18TY%3d

50 kits are offered, 42 people are on the list for now...
That means at least 500 CA3080's will be needed in the coming months.
eek!
elmegil
Fitchie, can you confirm a particular model of the 3080?

Mouser has the following DIP versions:

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Renesas-Intersil/CA3080AEZ?qs=sGA EpiMZZMtDSiRz%252bYolvPL%2fEV6JJUMur8AAWMxD8Ak%3d

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Renesas-Intersil/CA3080EZ?qs=sGAE piMZZMtDSiRz%252bYolvPL%2fEV6JJUMuZuavK1o18TY%3d

The Intersil datasheet I have indicates that the AE has a wider temperature range, the E only has 0 - 70 degrees C, the AE has -55 to 125. I personally generally tend toward the higher range devices, but right now don't know the price differential.
elmegil
I'll put a note on my calendar to call Mouser to get a quote at least when they're open for business again next week.

This is shaping up in my mind as a group buy.... which I think I would offer more widely than just this group, but this group would form a good core to be sure we can get them -- again assuming the price isn't too ridiculous.

I bet with other folks from Muff's who might want expected good 3080's we could get as high as 1000.
zephyrin
Ca3080 and 741 are avalaible to Reichelt.de
Fitchie
elmegil wrote:
Fitchie, can you confirm a particular model of the 3080?

I'm using the CA3080E, no experience with the AE variant, but beside the temperature range, the other specs looks the same.
Please keep us posted as you got an offer from Mouser.

And indeed, it looks like Reichelt has CA3080's in stock.
Little bit expensive: 4,45 euro/each.
sleepybongo
Kudos for the website!

That must have taken a lot of time and effort.
Fitchie
All,


Again thanks for your feedback. I admit that I have invested a lot of time in this project & website. It started out as a hobby project and actually I never thought I would get that much interest.
You can imagine that a big smile came to my face after the first successful speech syntheses. Boogie was there at the time and we kicked the whole afternoon (and evening).

Anyhow, below the updated list, there are still 8 places left:

1. Yan6
2. pixelforest
3. zephyrin
4. Swyndger
5. m0d01
6. LED-man
7. Wolfo!
8. AonFluX
9. shogeki
10. gipsycat (set 1)
11. gipsycat (set 2)
12. RadekTymecki
13. Faustgeist
14. Spotta
15. jplafond
16. Distapro
17. Synth Con Meo
18. stevesavage
19. GingerCoke
20. teleport
21. EdBrock
22. jersupereq
23. Level5
24. Yaruna
25. Fwestivus
26. jaidee
27. Revok
28. Modulart_JP
29. Girts23
30. Rosch
31. Altitude909
32. sleepybongo
33. dnode
34. bsilverberg
35. decoder303
36. DIY-MMS (Matt)
37. elmegil
38. gianni
39. Mangoest
40. Delabelle
41. Alfrede
42. Croodey
sixty_n
seems too good to miss. I'm in.
krisb
Great work, been following since the start and need one of these. Better add me to the list before it fills up. I'm in!
effegee
Add me to the list for a kit.
Fitchie
Swyndger wrote:
But the next thing we need is a BOM to start searching for all the rare parts we need wink

Here is already the bom for the basic vocoder:
http://www.vocoder.eu/bom.html

The BOM for the sibilance expansion will follow later.
As soon as the BOM is final, a downloadable sheet will be available.
Alfrede
Hey guys,

I have send dasmusikding a email in which i asked what manufacturer from the ca3080 they have and what it will be cost when we order 500 Pieces.

Greetz

Alfrede
Fitchie
Gents,



Time for a well-deserved break.
Dead Banana
elmegil
When you're back smile

What is the tolerance for the PSU standoffs?

Mouser does not appear to have any 5mm female/female metal standoffs.
Fitchie
elmegil wrote:
Mouser does not appear to have any 5mm female/female metal standoffs.

Try this one:
534-24430
elmegil
Anything special about the DPDT switch in the PSU?

The only one that "matches" specification wise is a C&K $10.76 switch! smile

https://br.mouser.com/ProductDetail/611-7201K2CWZQE

The Multicomp switch does not look like anything special and certainly isn't priced that way.
elmegil
Fitchie wrote:
elmegil wrote:
Mouser does not appear to have any 5mm female/female metal standoffs.

Try this one:
534-24430


The difference between "M3" and "3mm thread size" angry

I'm also having troubles finding a transformer that fits the footprint at Mouser.
Fitchie
elmegil wrote:
Anything special about the DPDT switch in the PSU?

Choose at your own discretion.
Keep in mind the switches should be DPDT and one of them has to switch 110/240 VAC !
elmegil
Fitchie wrote:
elmegil wrote:
Anything special about the DPDT switch in the PSU?

Choose at your own discretion.
Keep in mind the switches should be DPDT and one of them has to switch 110/240 VAC !


Honestly most of the switches I've seen seem to be rated for 240/250VAC but for the PSU if that's the key factor I'll double check.

Thanks! smile

Edit: NKK Switch much cheaper: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/NKK-Switches/M2022SS1W01

once again, the difference between "240VAC" or "250VAC" and "125/250VAC"

I wish their database would deal with equivalencies.
zephyrin
from 540 pieces, the price of CA3080 is reduced by 15% at reichelt. can be that by adding the 741, it can make a price from 500 for both components ?
elmegil
Nope, the discounts for a certain number of components only apply when it's the same component.
Fitchie
elmegil wrote:
Nope, the discounts for a certain number of components only apply when it's the same component.

For 50 kits:
    600 x CA3080
    550 x LM741
But I don't know if it makes sense to organise a group buy for the LM741 as this IC is widely available.
cygmu
elmegil wrote:
Nope, the discounts for a certain number of components only apply when it's the same component.


Actually Reichelt's discounts are for any order of eligible components, and discount is determined by the total value of the order. Unusual but true.

It might be worth contacting Rochester to see whether they can supply 600 CA3080s directly. https://www.rocelec.com
Jarno
Cough, 600 pieces of CA3080?!? LM13700 conversion board?
dnode
Like?!

https://shop.pedalparts.co.uk/CA3080_LM13700_Adapter_PCB/p847124_13121 572.aspx
elmegil
That's nearly twice the size or the original chip, I doubt that's likely to work. *Maybe* you can find some LM13700 SMT -> CA3080 adapters.

The whole point of ordering them in a batch of 500+ is that they *are* in production again, it's a matter of having enough ordered to drive the price point down to something reasonable.

I'll report back after I've called Mouser.
elmegil
RFQ submitted with Mouser, they will be emailing me back by Wednesday.
dnode
elmegil wrote:
That's nearly twice the size or the original chip, I doubt that's likely to work. *Maybe* you can find some LM13700 SMT -> CA3080 adapters.


You're probably right ... maybe a good (better?) price is to be found for a SMT CA3080 and use a 'regular' SMT2DIP adapter?!

Thanks for the inquiry with Mouser, Elmegil!
elmegil
Apparently I was incorrect angry

Reply from Mouser: "This part has been discontinued by the manufacturer. It is no longer orderable."

I'd swear someone picked up manufacturing rights for these, but damned if I can remember who it was.
gianni
elmegil wrote:
I'd swear someone picked up manufacturing rights for these, but damned if I can remember who it was.


It's Rochester Electronics. Apparently they have 11,000 pieces in stock of the CA3080AE version

www.rocelec.com/part/islreica3080ae
elmegil
Thanks. RFQ sent to Rochester Electronics.
Altitude909
elmegil wrote:
Thanks. RFQ sent to Rochester Electronics.


smallbear has them
Fitchie
Updated list:

5 days left
5 places left


1. Yan6
2. pixelforest
3. zephyrin
4. Swyndger
5. m0d01
6. LED-man
7. Wolfo!
8. AonFluX
9. shogeki
10. gipsycat (set 1)
11. gipsycat (set 2)
12. RadekTymecki
13. Faustgeist
14. Spotta
15. jplafond
16. Distapro
17. Synth Con Meo
18. stevesavage
19. GingerCoke
20. teleport
21. EdBrock
22. jersupereq
23. Level5
24. Yaruna
25. Fwestivus
26. jaidee
27. Revok
28. Modulart_JP
29. Girts23
30. Rosch
31. Altitude909
32. sleepybongo
33. dnode
34. bsilverberg
35. decoder303
36. DIY-MMS (Matt)
37. elmegil
38. gianni
39. Mangoest
40. Delabelle
41. Alfrede
42. Croodey
43. sixty_n
44. krisb
45. effegee
elmegil
Altitude909 wrote:
elmegil wrote:
Thanks. RFQ sent to Rochester Electronics.


smallbear has them


Does he have them in sufficient quantities though? smile
cygmu
elmegil wrote:
Altitude909 wrote:
elmegil wrote:
Thanks. RFQ sent to Rochester Electronics.


smallbear has them


Does he have them in sufficient quantities though? smile


689 in stock according to the web site.
Fitchie
Updated list:

4 days left
4 places left


1. Yan6
2. pixelforest
3. zephyrin
4. Swyndger
5. m0d01
6. LED-man
7. Wolfo!
8. AonFluX
9. shogeki
10. gipsycat (set 1)
11. gipsycat (set 2)
12. RadekTymecki
13. Faustgeist
14. Spotta
15. jplafond
16. Distapro
17. Synth Con Meo
18. stevesavage
19. GingerCoke
20. teleport
21. EdBrock
22. jersupereq
23. Level5
24. Yaruna
25. Fwestivus
26. jaidee
27. Revok
28. Modulart_JP
29. Girts23
30. Rosch
31. Altitude909
32. sleepybongo
33. dnode
34. bsilverberg
35. decoder303
36. DIY-MMS (Matt)
37. elmegil
38. gianni
39. Mangoest
40. Delabelle
41. Alfrede
42. Croodey
43. sixty_n
44. krisb
45. effegee
46. vladimir
jbdiver
I haven't been on the forum for months. I log in and see a DIY vocoder. Ha, too cool to pass up. Please add me to the list.
Ricochet
great projekt. ..! applause

put me on the list ...please we're not worthy

for pcb - Set and rare parts ...
Fitchie
2 days left
2 places left


1. Yan6
2. pixelforest
3. zephyrin
4. Swyndger
5. m0d01
6. LED-man
7. Wolfo!
8. AonFluX
9. shogeki
10. gipsycat (set 1)
11. gipsycat (set 2)
12. RadekTymecki
13. Faustgeist
14. Spotta
15. jplafond
16. Distapro
17. Synth Con Meo
18. stevesavage
19. GingerCoke
20. teleport
21. EdBrock
22. jersupereq
23. Level5
24. Yaruna
25. Fwestivus
26. jaidee
27. Revok
28. Modulart_JP
29. Girts23
30. Rosch
31. Altitude909
32. sleepybongo
33. dnode
34. bsilverberg
35. decoder303
36. DIY-MMS (Matt)
37. elmegil
38. gianni
39. Mangoest
40. Delabelle
41. Alfrede
42. Croodey
43. sixty_n
44. krisb
45. effegee
46. vladimir
47. jbdiver
48. Ricochet
49.
50.
Boogie
Hey Fitchie,

you're going great ! applause
Fitchie
Last day to order !

Only 2 kits available.
hihi
lemberski
Hey Fitchie,

great project, please put me on the list:

49. lemberski

Cheers
Fitchie
To all those interested who have registered on the list, shortly you'll receive a private message with an official ordering form. Please fill in this ordering form (name, address, choosen options, ...) and send it back to info@vocoder.eu, after that you will receive an official invoice and further instructions about payment and delivery.

In the meantime, most of the parts have been ordered and my 3D printer is working overtime to get all the plastic pieces ready.

The interest list is now officially closed, I want to thank you all to get 49 orders!
But given that I provide 50 kits, the 50th candidate can still register. cool
Schlumpfhut
Unfortunedly i dont have time nor money to obtain the 50th set. So i would like to ask if you consider doing a 2nd run of your project anytime in the future.
Fitchie
The 50th place is taken, so this is the final list:

1. Yan6
2. pixelforest
3. zephyrin
4. Swyndger
5. m0d01
6. LED-man
7. Wolfo!
8. AonFluX
9. shogeki
10. gipsycat (set 1)
11. gipsycat (set 2)
12. RadekTymecki
13. Faustgeist
14. Spotta
15. jplafond
16. Distapro
17. Synth Con Meo
18. stevesavage
19. GingerCoke
20. teleport
21. EdBrock
22. jersupereq
23. Level5
24. Yaruna
25. Fwestivus
26. jaidee
27. Revok
28. Modulart_JP
29. Girts23
30. Rosch
31. Altitude909
32. sleepybongo
33. dnode
34. bsilverberg
35. decoder303
36. DIY-MMS (Matt)
37. elmegil
38. gianni
39. Mangoest
40. Delabelle
41. Alfrede
42. Croodey
43. sixty_n
44. krisb
45. effegee
46. vladimir
47. jbdiver
48. Ricochet
49. lemberski
50. Joshua

I just got the question for a second run. Maybe it will happen but first I want to finish everything from the first run.
Fitchie
All,

Just to let you know:
Forum member Seanpark did inform me he has got a few hundred new Rochester 3080's. You can contact him for an affordable quote.
elmegil
That's great. Since Rochester is not responding to me, I think folks will have to investigate other avenues. In addition to Seanpark, for US members I've been told that Smallbear electronics has some stock of the Rochester chips, someone else on the SDIY mailing list has said they are doing a buy which they do periodically, so anyone on that list has probably seen his offer.
Fitchie
You've got mail !

Orders forms are sent out, so please check your inbox.
Please fill in all required fields (name, address, chosen options, ...) and send it back to info@vocoder.eu !
nologin
Hi Fitchie, if not, will there be a second batch one day? hmmm.....
Fitchie
nologin wrote:
Hi Fitchie, if not, will there be a second batch one day? hmmm.....


Got from several members the question for a second run. Maybe that will happen but first I want to finish everything from the first run.
Don't spread the news, but I did order some extra panels and PCB's so maybe there is no need for a second run.
cool
Fitchie
Printing ...
    Printing ...

      Printing ...

dnode
Like ...

Like ...

Like ...

Which part am I actually looking at?
Fitchie
dnode wrote:
Which part am I actually looking at?

You are looking at 5 sets of PCB guides to hold the filter prints in their right position.

This is how ik looks like when finished:



zephyrin
I saw on your site that there was a way to buy the kit. Should we go through this page for payment?

For people who like me live in Europe but not in the European Union (in Switzerland), we should not have to pay VAT. This possibility appears to be available only For USA or Canada !
elmegil
Have formal invoices been sent out? All I've seen was the spreadsheet, which I filled out and returned.
Fitchie
@zephyrin

No you don't have to replace your onder on the website, I processed already your order sheet.
Shortly you will receive an invoice with Paypal link to perform the payment.
For Switzerland 0% VAT will be calculated.


@elmegil

I'm waiting for the last candidates to send in the order sheet to send out all invoices.
Probably this will be done end of this week.
zephyrin
Thank you Fitchie for your answer.
I watched the BOM, the capacitor electro (C71 and C81) for power supply are missing i think.

it would be nice to also have the global list by component with their quantity.

For those who want to save money it is possible to order a good number of components at Tayda, prices are 2 to 4 times cheaper than at Farnell.
And we can have 15% with code "Sale15".
zephyrin
I started an alternative BOM with components from Tayda and Reichelt
dnode
I just met up with the original designer (he lives in the same town as I do). His 'big' tip to let the vocoder really shine was to closely (1-2%) match the filter's capacitors of the analyzer part to the synthesizing part (so, per band) instead of wasting money on precision capacitors.

That would be part C1..C8 in the original?!
zephyrin
Fitchie
Why did you replace the LM301 with an NE5534 in the Input / Output circuit?

Have you replaced the tantalum capacitor with electro capacitor ?
seanpark
Everyone who contacted me for 3080s: packages went out today.

I have about 150 units left.
seanpark
I mentioned this to one user in a PM:

I'm in the US and shipping to Europe is about $15 per package. Maybe you euro folks want to all order together and have a trusted member send them out?

I don't mind sending individual packages it just sucks to pay $15 for $36 worth of chips.
Fitchie
zephyrin wrote:
I watched the BOM, the capacitor electro (C71 and C81) for power supply are missing i think.
it would be nice to also have the global list by component with their quantity.

You are right ! Thanks for the feedback.
I'll add both capacitors and update the list with the corresponding references on the PCB's.

zephyrin wrote:
Why did you replace the LM301 with an NE5534 in the Input / Output circuit?

The NE5534 is much superior compared to the LM301 and has the same pinout. Notice that all opamps in the input/output module have been replaced by NE5534's.
The only reason Elektor did use the LM301 in the original design was purely for cost reasons. Don't forget that we lived in the 80s at that time !
Fitchie
dnode wrote:
I just met up with the original designer (he lives in the same town as I do).

That's cool ! I would also like to meet that guy !


dnode wrote:
His 'big' tip to let the vocoder really shine was to closely match the filter's capacitors of the analyzer part to the synthesizing part. That would be part C1..C8 in the original?

Correct !
Fitchie
I just wanted to let you know:
Schaeffer did deliver the frontpanels today. They look outstanding !
Fitchie
Quick update:

    3D printed parts ready, all provided with an adhesive strip and neatly bagged.
    Total printing time > 250 hrs !

    Cardboard boxes for shipping also delivered !

Alfrede
Hey Fitchie, it isincomprehensible how a single person do what you do for the community. I just wanna say thank you very much.
Fitchie
Alfrede wrote:
Hey Fitchie, it isincomprehensible how a single person do what you do for the community. I just wanna say thank you very much.

Thanks for your nice feedback, it gave me a big smile !
I have leached the forum for years, so time was there to turn the roles around and start contributing. And believe me, your reactions make it all even more valuable and enjoyable !

Actually this vocoder started as a hobby, but given all the great reactions here on the forum, all core components are now available as a kit. Fortunately I do this in my spare time, so there is no need for big profit.

For me this is the first time I do something like this, so I'm learning lots of things about international VAT, countries (not) belonging to the EU, Paypal commission fees (ouwtch), ...
The next steps are to handle the financial part, to assemble the kits and to ship everything around the world.
cool
Synth Con Meo
seanpark wrote:
Everyone who contacted me for 3080s: packages went out today.

I have about 150 units left.


Hey Sean,
I sent a PM the other day about picking up some of the 3080's. I need to know the logics of ordering.

Thanks
Fitchie
Another good news:
The PCB manufacturer did produce all PCB's and will ship them probably tomorrow.

Some nice statistics:
    - total PCB's in this order: 1020 pcs
    - total kits in this order: 60 kits
    - surface in square meters when PCB's are placed side by side : 13,6 m2
    - total weight including transport pallet : 74 kgs

About half of the invoices have been sent out, the majority has already paid, thanks for that !
The other invoices will be sent tomorrow in the afternoon, this in order of your position on the interest list.
A few have not yet returned the formal order, I hereby request to fill in and return the order sheet, so that the administration phase can be closed shortly.

Initial planning is nearly maintained: the first parcels will be shipped out early November.
Fitchie
Preparing the assembly manual, chapter front panel:

Alfrede
Is anybody in Europe and needs CA3080 ies? I think i would order some by seanpark but 15 € for shipping is quite expensive. So please comtact me when you want order some too.

Thanks
Fitchie
Fitchie wrote:
The PCB manufacturer did produce all PCB's and will ship them probably tomorrow.

Update:

74 kgs in the form of 13,6 m2 vocoder PCB's on their way !
hihi
distapro
Hi Fitchie,

I find this project very interesting due to well thought improved design while keeping close to the original. The way the production of the PCB the front etc. is handled looks very professional and of high quality , this together with the sound demo’s have convinced me to put me on the list and to build one, so I put myself on the list.
Do you think you will be able to ship the kits at the beginning of November?

Rgds,
Distapro
Rockin' Banana!
DIY-MMS
Hey,

I have not received a payment request yet.
Have they already been sent and I have overlooked them,
or is it still going on?
Fitchie
distapro wrote:
Do you think you will be able to ship the kits at the beginning of November?

Thanks for you feedback !

Initially I did plan to ship the first kits end of October, but due to high number of ordered PCB's there is a little delay. So the first kits will be shipped early November.
Definitely I make sure that everyone has received their order before the end of November
Fitchie
DIY-MMS wrote:
I have not received a payment request yet.
Have they already been sent and I have overlooked them,
or is it still going on?

If everything went well then you should have received an order form. Please can you fill it in and send it back? After that you will receive the invoice.
If you missed the order form, please download the file below.
DIY-MMS
I have send the Order on 04.10.2018
Fitchie
DIY-MMS wrote:
I have send the Order on 04.10.2018

My apologizes, I did not notice that there were 2 people named Mathhias, and therefore your request was not processed.
Fitchie
Today it will be "PCB day" !
Fitchie
Great news !
The 19" cases are (partially) delivered, so this weekend I'll start assembling the kits.



With a bit of luck, I can still send the first parcels this month !!!
spinning
Fitchie
Some kits available !

Given that:

- 3 forum members abandon their order;
- 4 others have not submitted their order form yet;
- some extra kits are ordered,

there are still a number of extra kits available !
If interested, please post your name on the list and you will receive the order form (first in, first served).

Update for existing customers

For those who have already ordered and paid:

- all parts are delivered (PCB's, 19" cases, cardboard boxes, frontpanels)
- merging all parts into kits is ongoing
- first 15 orders will be shipped Wednesday 31/10

It's peanut butter jelly time!
Fitchie
Tracking

I forgot to mention in the previous post that all shipments are sent with tracking info.
You will receive a private message as soon as your order has been shipped with your personal tracking number.
Fitchie
Packaging the PCB's is almost done.
Excessive foiled and taped in sturdy packages to be able to handle rough treatment during transport.

Revok
You're too pro, Fitchie! So excited for this one.
Fitchie
Revok wrote:
You're too pro, Fitchie! So excited for this one.

Good products needs good packaging !
cool

Preparing the labels for Europe based customers:

Fitchie
All,

I once promised to ship the first parcels at the end of October, and I admit it is really on the edge, but ...
The first 20 packages have been sent today !
wink

Tomorrow November 1 and Friday November 2 are holidays in Belgium, so it may be that tracking is only available from next Monday or later. Shipment will be executed by DPD, individual tracking info will be sent in a private message. I wish you good reception and a lot of fun !

Orders from last week and deliveries for the United States and Canada will be shipped next week.
nologin
I just paid, from France. I was too afraid to miss the batch and there are no others in the future.
dnode
Got my DPD message!
Packaging looks awesome, thx Fitchie!
dnode
Arghh, let me post something not so worthless ...

Fitchie, maybe it's a good idea you start a building thread?! So we can keep all the real stuff separate from all this pre-ejaculate?!
Fitchie
dnode wrote:
Got my DPD message!

    That's great news !
    Because that means the packages are already processed by DPD !
    applause


dnode wrote:
Fitchie, maybe it's a good idea you start a building thread?! So we can keep all the real stuff separate from all this pre-ejaculate?!

sixty_n
Awesome work on the website Fitchie on top of everything else. This is probably the most meticulously planned and professionally executed project I've ever seen, thanks for doing all of it we're not worthy
pixelforest
are packages going out in geographical groupings rather than list order? #2 on list but in the US.
Fitchie
pixelforest wrote:
are packages going out in geographical groupings rather than list order?

    A small explanation about shipping:

    - Parcels for Europe are processed by DPD, first in, first served.
    - Parcels for US & Canada will be soon processed by BPost, also first in, first served.

    Unfortunately I am still waiting for a signed contract with BPost, as this agreement is legally required to carry out customs formalities, prior to shipping to US & Canada.

    My main intention was to keep shipping costs down, you should know that the package weighs 6 kgs.
    That's why 2 different suppliers are used to serve the different geographical locations.
gianni
PCBs arrived! Thanks you very much Raoul!

Portabella
this is a great priject! on my backlog now
Swyndger
Parcel arrived at my doorstep today, too.
Now I have to start to collect the rest of the parts ...

Thak you, Fitchie, for this great project.
dnode
dnode wrote:
Fitchie, maybe it's a good idea you start a building thread?! So we can keep all the real stuff separate from all this pre-ejaculate?!

Fitchie wrote:
Here you are:
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2939121#2939121


Great, thx!
Been offline for a few days ... my package arrived last Thursday Nov 1 in a very good state ... Excellent choice of victory candy!
jbdiver
seanpark wrote:
Everyone who contacted me for 3080s: packages went out today.

I have about 150 units left.


I sent this guy some money for 3080s a month ago and never heard back despite multiple messages. Buyer beware.
Boogie
you may find some CA3080 in stock

here: https://www.findchips.com/search/ca3080

and here: https://www.reichelt.com/
Fwestivus
A nice big parcel arrived for me on Monday.
Looks brilliant. Just need to clear some desk space to get properly stuck into it!
Such a good idea to do this, and I can't be thankful enough for the ridiculous amount of effort that must have gone into this!
Fitchie
As recently promised:
Deliveries for the United States and Canada will be shipped tomorrow !

All packages are ready to send out. Let's hope that the strike at Bpost will not last too long.
Synth Con Meo
Fitchie wrote:
As recently promised:
Deliveries for the United States and Canada will be shipped tomorrow !

All packages are ready to send out. Let's hope that the strike at Bpost will not last too long.


That's great Fitchie! Now I need to start ordering the components. thumbs up
Synth Con Meo
jbdiver wrote:
seanpark wrote:
Everyone who contacted me for 3080s: packages went out today.

I have about 150 units left.


I sent this guy some money for 3080s a month ago and never heard back despite multiple messages. Buyer beware.


Yeah I am not sure what the deal is, I PM'd him about the 3080's which he did reply. But then I replied back stating I wanted to buy a set from him and haven't heard back. I did check his profile and it shows he hasn't been on the forums since the 20th of October. So maybe something came up. Not making excuses but it's possible he had some important things come about.
Revok
I think I have enough 3080's somewhere in my closet but if not I'll probably be ordering from smallbear.
http://www.smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com/ic-ca3080ae/
Fitchie
Sorry guys for this double post, but I absolutely want to avoid you ordering wrong connectors.

zephyrin wrote:
For DIN 41617 Reichelt have a better price (shipping price is not expensive as TME ):
FEDERLEISTE 21L (same as 102E10079X ) -> 2.01 €

    DO NOT ORDER THESE CONNECTORS !

    Take care not to order the L (solder lugs) version, they will not fit in the backplane !
    Please see below specifications before ordering.
zephyrin
Quote:
As recently promised:
Deliveries for the United States and Canada will be shipped tomorrow !

All packages are ready to send out. Let's hope that the strike at Bpost will not last too long.


Do you send the kits to switzerland ? I have received nothing from DPD ?
Fitchie
zephyrin wrote:
Do you send the kits to switzerland ? I have received nothing from DPD ?

    Neither Switzerland nor Norway are part of the European Economic Community.
    Shipping to these countries as well to the United States and Canada requires customs formalities. DPD does not offer this service in Belgium.

    Therefore your parcel was shipped today by BPost together with those for the United States and Canada.
elmegil
Is it BPost directly or you who will be providing tracking info?

Just worried that it may have been in my spam folder when I cleared it out this morning.
zephyrin
Curious we have DPD inswitzerland.
Do you have try to see with DHL for Switzerland ?
It's the first time that i lsee Bpost for parcel in Switzerland.
Fitchie
elmegil wrote:
Is it BPost directly or you who will be providing tracking info?

Also BPost provides tracking info (unsure but I think the shipment is issued by GLS for international deliveries).
Don't underestimate Belgium, we are small but tough!
thumbs up

Have to go to my work now, but I'll send your tracking codes tonight by private message.
elmegil
So then my question morphs: BPost has the arrangement and the materials, I assume they are going through the list top to bottom, and that they are going to take a few days to get it all out?

All of which is fine, but I'm still worried I may have deleted something important. If my interpretation is correct, I am not so worried about that.
jaidee
Quote:
seanpark wrote:
Everyone who contacted me for 3080s: packages went out today.

I have about 150 units left.


I sent this guy some money for 3080s a month ago and never heard back despite multiple messages. Buyer beware.


I also sent money for a batch of CA3080s several weeks ago, making payment, rather foolishly with the benefit if hindsight, by Friends & Family...

Nothing received, and no response to PMs or emails.

Anyone have any idea what is going on with seanpark??
Fitchie
elmegil wrote:
I assume they are going through the list top to bottom, and that they are going to take a few days to get it all out?
All of which is fine, but I'm still worried I may have deleted something important.

Hi Elmegil,

Your reasoning is entirely correct and you didn't miss anything, but BPost messed up things due to a one week-long strike. Some days their administration department is not available, other days the distribution is not working, and now they have a huge backlog. 90% of all staff are involved, so you can imagine what kind of disorder it is. But according to the latest news, they have reached an agreement and from Monday all services should be restarted. My apologies, this is completely out of my control.

Where are we now:

- All parcels for the United States, Canada and other countries outside the European Economic Community are prepared, labeled, provided with customs documents and delivered in the local sorting center.
- The packages have not been scanned for further processing, I hoped this would be done today, but unfortunately this did not happen. Presumably this will happen on Monday or Tuesday, this according to the incurred backlog.
- As soon as the packages are processed I'll receive the tracking information for each individual parcel. Once as I have this information, I will forward it to you.

So I would like to ask you on behalf of BPost to be patient for a moment.

Once again my apologies...
eek!
elmegil
Strike's not your fault smile

Thank you for the very clear description, I will go back over to my corner and be patient :-D
elmegil
New questions, regarding the BOM. If those ought to go some other thread, let me know.

1) is there a reason all the resistors in the BOM are 1/2W versions? These are 10mm long per the datasheet on the farnell (newark/element14) website, is that really what you used? Or should those all be MF25's instead of MF50's?

2) Any suggestions for a source for the WAGO Solder pins? Newark doesn't even say they have them in stock right now, and I haven't found them elsewhere.

3) with regard to the DPDT switches on the FP and Noise section, Mouser has Mountain 1MD1T1B1M1QE which appear to be equivalent (down to the part numbers) except these are B1 and what's in the BOM is B5 -- the difference is that the B1 is a couple mm higher in the bushing and has a keyway, B5 is shorter and is flat. The one doubt I have is -- does the panel expect these to be flat-sided switches (in which case the bushing of the B1 won't fit). Mouser doesn't have the B5, unfortunately.

Probably more questions as the day winds on.
Fitchie
elmegil wrote:
1) is there a reason all the resistors in the BOM are 1/2W versions?

1/8 W or 1/4 W resistors are perfectly suitable.
I consciously did use 1/2 W resistors to get the old-fashioned look of the original device.


elmegil wrote:
2) Any suggestions for a source for the WAGO Solder pins?

These pins are ordinary 1 mm solder pins:
    - Farnell reference: 2643506
    - TME reference: 1364E.61
    - Newark reference: 07WX0901
    - Reichelt reference: RTM 1-100

elmegil wrote:
3) The one doubt I have is -- does the panel expect these to be flat-sided switches (in which case the bushing of the B1 won't fit)

No, the panel is 2,5 mm thick, so you have to add washers at the inside at your own discretion.
elmegil
Quote:
elmegil wrote:
2) Any suggestions for a source for the WAGO Solder pins?

These pins are ordinary 1 mm solder pins:
    - Farnell reference: 2643506
    - TME reference: 1364E.61
    - Newark reference: 07WX0901
    - Reichelt reference: RTM 1-100



But no mouser, and searching for 1mm solder pin gets me so much more than I could possibly sort through cry

Not your problem, at all. I'm just at a loss to figure out how to find them, there's no way all those places have them and not Mouser.

PS: I don't buy from those places generally because their shipping is ridiculous -- as would be expected Europe to US
elmegil
I think I finally found something compatible

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mill-Max/3103-2-00-21-00-00-08-0? qs=sGAEpiMZZMsUzhEcHltCubXwr3eVKNuB

or

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mill-Max/3223-3-00-15-00-00-08-0? qs=%2fha2pyFadugHu4fmkbWmSbFJ%2fJv3vRcO0cELbm29tUhOqCSAtkpEhg%3d%3d

Though the latter are pretty spendy

The problem is the only ones Mouser carries that aren't gold plated are .5mm or so rather than 1mm diameter.
Fitchie
Great news !

The strike at BPost is definitely over.
Got an update with the confirmation that all packages for the United States, Canada and other countries outside the European Economic Community are scanned and accepted by the distribution network.
applause

If you want to receive your private tracking number, please send me a private messages and I'll respond as soon as possible.
elmegil
Thanks!! applause
jersupereq
jaidee wrote:
Quote:
seanpark wrote:
Everyone who contacted me for 3080s: packages went out today.

I have about 150 units left.


I sent this guy some money for 3080s a month ago and never heard back despite multiple messages. Buyer beware.


I also sent money for a batch of CA3080s several weeks ago, making payment, rather foolishly with the benefit if hindsight, by Friends & Family...

Nothing received, and no response to PMs or emails.

Anyone have any idea what is going on with seanpark??


Haven't received anything either hmmm.....
jersupereq
ICa showed up today!
jaidee
And out of the blue, my CA3080s turned up today - which makes it even more strange that seanpark is not responding to PMs/emails. I hope he is OK...
jbdiver
jaidee wrote:
And out of the blue, my CA3080s turned up today - which makes it even more strange that seanpark is not responding to PMs/emails. I hope he is OK...


Yeah, mine showed up as well. The problem is that I ordered a new set of 3080's from Small Bear a week ago, and now I have two sets of 3080s. Grrrr.
Synth Con Meo
jbdiver wrote:
jaidee wrote:
And out of the blue, my CA3080s turned up today - which makes it even more strange that seanpark is not responding to PMs/emails. I hope he is OK...


Yeah, mine showed up as well. The problem is that I ordered a new set of 3080's from Small Bear a week ago, and now I have two sets of 3080s. Grrrr.


I still never got a response back from him about me wanting to buy a set from him. So I will probably just order my set from Small Bears myself.
elmegil
PCBs and enclosure arrived in Chicago this morning screaming goo yo we're not worthy

Very professionally packaged and wrapped, thank you SO MUCH Fitchie!

With wrap



Without wrap

Synth Con Meo
elmegil wrote:
PCBs and enclosure arrived in Chicago this morning screaming goo yo we're not worthy

Very professionally packaged and wrapped, thank you SO MUCH Fitchie!

With wrap


Cool! I've been trying to track my shipment but it doesn't appear to have gotten any closer to delivery.


Edit: just checked again, looks like it actually might be in the States now atleast. Did USPS finish the delivery?
elmegil
Synth Con Meo wrote:

Edit: just checked again, looks like it actually might be in the States now atleast. Did USPS finish the delivery?


I didn't see who physically left it at the front door, but yeah, as of yesterday, my tracking (even in "detail") just said "sorted" in Antwerp. I hadn't been trying USPS tracking yet, because there wasn't a clear indication of handoff like I've seen other times I've had shipments from Europe.

Part of my reason for posting was to give hope to other folks waiting in the US. Chicago is probably closer to a "hub" than some, but it seems likely the packages are all here in the US now, at the very least.
Fitchie
elmegil wrote:
PCBs and enclosure arrived in Chicago this morning screaming goo yo we're not worthy

Thank you for the pictures and nice to see that the parcels ended up in the States !
It looks like the tracking information is not that accurate, but hopefully everyone will be delivered quickly...
Fitchie
Here is the information as I can see in the shipping manager for all US parcels:



Glossary:
    Aangemaakt -> Label created
    Onderweg -> Parcel on the go
    Geleverd -> Delivered to the customer

I am looking for another partner for future deliveries to the United States, BPost seems very slow and the provided tracking information is not accurate at all.
EdBrock
PCB's, panel and enclosure arrived today, beautiful packaging job, perfect!

Thanks Fitchie!!!!
Synth Con Meo
EdBrock wrote:
PCB's, panel and enclosure arrived today, beautiful packaging job, perfect!

Thanks Fitchie!!!!


Yeah mine showed up on my doorstep today too. I concur about the packaging, very nice. I need to start ordering my components now. thumbs up
Fitchie
All,

Nice to hear everyone is served and thank you all for the great feedback about the packaging.
Cheesy!

As there a 5 members who have not responded neither completed the order form,
5 kits are available again !

Please send a PM or mail to info@vocoder.eu if you are interested.
jbdiver
The kit arrived in Minneapolis two days ago. Looks awesome and very professional job. Now I just need to source all the components and find some time to build. smile
elmegil
Group Buy for the CONEC backplane connectors is started over here:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2954530#2954530

Please post there if you would like to participate. Intent is primarily focused on US and Canada, but we won't turn anyone away (assuming you're willing to pay shipping.... smile )
elmegil
elmegil wrote:
Group Buy for the CONEC backplane connectors is started over here:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2954530#2954530

Please post there if you would like to participate. Intent is primarily focused on US and Canada, but we won't turn anyone away (assuming you're willing to pay shipping.... smile )


Some updates on this, including possible pricing and different sourcing options, again anyone on the US side of the ocean who's interested, please weigh on in that thread.
Fitchie
3 kits are still available !

The ideal gift for under the Christmas tree. cool

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