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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Finishing music
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Production Techniques  
Author Finishing music
senecio
I’m reading this book on my kindle: “making music: 74 creative strategies for electronic music producers” by Dennis DeSantis

(I think it was $9.99 on Amazon) I’m finding it really helpful! Tons of great advice on getting music projects finished.

I’m even gonna do this cheesy “make a record in February” website thing it mentions: http://fawm.org/fawmers/senecio/

Anything to save me from the dark ocean of procrastination and gear hunting.
whinger
I started by uploading weekly to Instagram. Then once I got comfortable with that, I took the best of those one minute songs, extend them to full length. The during some time off from work over the holidays, I released the ones that worked as an EP.

I find little goals that add to each other, to be the best way to trick me into doing productive work. So the one minute thing is pretty easy to do, then only the best get worked into full length, which is easy, because they're the ones that excite me. And so forth. You can eat the whole elephant, you just do it one bite at a time.
soundshaper
Finishing music really is all about hard work and dedication. However you also have to have a method and a plan. Here’s the method my partner and I use.

1. Program sounds and make patterns with my gear during non-writing time like late at night or when I have a need to get nerdy

2. Jam all day using our sounds, recording things here and there that we liked, doesn’t have it be perfect or anything

3. Sit together for a day or two and slice and cut and arrange and record little bits to make a crude and terrible sounding arrangement from the jams

4. Add some more tracks and replace some of the jam parts with new crude recordings that are improvements on the originals and hone in on an arrangement

*Note: Still no mixing or fine tuning or perfecting a loop, as these things will stop you from getting the arrangement done which is essential to making an entire song. You have to “imagine” it sounding good for quite a bit of the process.

5. Now start replacing the scratch tracks with better recordings, really dialing in the programs, tones and some effects so the performance really comes through. We’ll spend at least a whole day doing this for each instrument/track.

6. Fine tuning and replacement of anything that didn’t quite work.

7. Mix

Yay, another song is done! Now, and only now, onto the next. It's peanut butter jelly time!

Hope this helps.
Dcramer
I find that to get something bigger, like an album done, it helps if I envision a theme, sound, and set of techniques for the project. By setting some musical limits and thematic structure, I find it easier to start filling in the spaces w00t
lisa
soundshaper That sounds dedicated and time consuming. eek! I skip step 1, 3, 4 and 5. Mr. Green

I make a drum loop as I wiggle some modular bass and melodies. I do a live recording of the separate tracks. I arrange, add effects and do a crude mix in the same go in my daw. Then I put (too many, awful) hours into making a final mix. Done.
eltrasgu
it looks like a never ending cycle. in my case I would be programing, then jamming and when I'm in the zone just press record. that's the only way I see... the tracks I do itb they all end in that kind of never ending process till I come with some impressive improvisation out of it. sometimes it has nothing to do with the original recording.
btw I think that a good producer should have personality, even more than technique, after all it's a matter of taste and quality is relative
slumberjack
lisa wrote:
soundshaper That sounds dedicated and time consuming. eek! I skip step 1, 3, 4 and 5. Mr. Green

I make a drum loop as I wiggle some modular bass and melodies. I do a live recording of the separate tracks. I arrange, add effects and do a crude mix in the same go in my daw. Then I put (too many, awful) hours into making a final mix. Done.


sounds familiar!

if i have a vision on the mix AND when the audio is already prepared enough like fx added already on the recording or post production is done.
if i 'have' to switch between eq-ing, re-amp and fx chains and mixing it's leading nowhere. and usually i mix the best when i invest a few days inna row 60 -90 min max each day until i i'm there where i want.
otherwise, yeah it's awful.
thevegasnerve
Dcramer wrote:
I find that to get something bigger, like an album done, it helps if I envision a theme, sound, and set of techniques for the project. By setting some musical limits and thematic structure, I find it easier to start filling in the spaces w00t


This is the approach I now embrace that includes selecting the instruments I am allowed to use. That usually gets tested at some point! And of course not allowing myself to move to the next project is a big part of that. Picking a theme would be a lot of fun too, haven tried that at least consciously.
slumberjack
thevegasnerve wrote:

not allowing myself to move to the next project is a big part of that


i run like 3.5 solo projects with different setting on mainly the same gear.
it's relaxing because i switch from one to another by intuition and i never get bored that way. for like almost half a year i haven't made a single bleep for the noise project and then last week i just recorded a song out of 'nothing' (by testing out a new module as i remember).
with various project in different themes you're able to go back and forth constantly and you mights learn skills that came only because a certain dedication to that certain theme / workflow / concept. skills you can use then in your other project / alias / aka.

don't be afraid of moving around projects.
working non-linear, more process oriented and not product related has freed up my mind more than anything else.
aokjoey0
My issue has been deciding that my stuff is worthy of public consumption, not completing anything. I finally pushed stuff out on SoundCloud and have a YouTube channel set up for publishing videos from my studio under my alter ego. Apogee Kick.

The comments suggesting limiting scope I can whole heartily concur with. It must work for Dcramer, listen to the quality and admire the quantity of his output!

Cheers,
soundshaper
slumberjack wrote:
thevegasnerve wrote:

not allowing myself to move to the next project is a big part of that


i run like 3.5 solo projects with different setting on mainly the same gear.
it's relaxing because i switch from one to another by intuition and i never get bored that way. for like almost half a year i haven't made a single bleep for the noise project and then last week i just recorded a song out of 'nothing' (by testing out a new module as i remember).
with various project in different themes you're able to go back and forth constantly and you mights learn skills that came only because a certain dedication to that certain theme / workflow / concept. skills you can use then in your other project / alias / aka.

don't be afraid of moving around projects.
working non-linear, more process oriented and not product related has freed up my mind more than anything else.


I use to be able to work like that when I was using software instruments and effects more often. I didn’t finish as much tho. Once I got back with my good friend and music counterpart we did all live take recording and mixing all analog. That was tedious but fun, yet impossible to move on until finished. Too many knobs!

Ironically, we have of late been experimenting with iOS and Ableton to write some more progressive songs for live performance. And the whole point of that I guess is to be able to skip around and play any of the songs at anytime.
thevegasnerve
slumberjack wrote:
thevegasnerve wrote:

not allowing myself to move to the next project is a big part of that


i run like 3.5 solo projects with different setting on mainly the same gear.
it's relaxing because i switch from one to another by intuition and i never get bored that way. for like almost half a year i haven't made a single bleep for the noise project and then last week i just recorded a song out of 'nothing' (by testing out a new module as i remember).
with various project in different themes you're able to go back and forth constantly and you mights learn skills that came only because a certain dedication to that certain theme / workflow / concept. skills you can use then in your other project / alias / aka.

don't be afraid of moving around projects.
working non-linear, more process oriented and not product related has freed up my mind more than anything else.


I think that a non-linear workflow can be very productive for many. It’s all dependent on how you are wired. I have learned that a very rigid Socratic Method instills discipline to my mind and challenges it with its constraints. I find it actually calms me down. There is still plenty of room for creative processes during the composition process.
slumberjack
thevegasnerve wrote:
slumberjack wrote:
thevegasnerve wrote:

not allowing myself to move to the next project is a big part of that


i run like 3.5 solo projects with different setting on mainly the same gear.
it's relaxing because i switch from one to another by intuition and i never get bored that way. for like almost half a year i haven't made a single bleep for the noise project and then last week i just recorded a song out of 'nothing' (by testing out a new module as i remember).
with various project in different themes you're able to go back and forth constantly and you mights learn skills that came only because a certain dedication to that certain theme / workflow / concept. skills you can use then in your other project / alias / aka.

don't be afraid of moving around projects.
working non-linear, more process oriented and not product related has freed up my mind more than anything else.


I think that a non-linear workflow can be very productive for many. It’s all dependent on how you are wired. I have learned that a very rigid Socratic Method instills discipline to my mind and challenges it with its constraints. I find it actually calms me down. There is still plenty of room for creative processes during the composition process.


sure. it's not only the easy way, there are doubts all the time if i should worj on one project only. but actually as you say about your workflow: it's the only way possible (at the moment). wink
slumberjack
soundshaper wrote:
slumberjack wrote:
thevegasnerve wrote:

not allowing myself to move to the next project is a big part of that


i run like 3.5 solo projects with different setting on mainly the same gear.
it's relaxing because i switch from one to another by intuition and i never get bored that way. for like almost half a year i haven't made a single bleep for the noise project and then last week i just recorded a song out of 'nothing' (by testing out a new module as i remember).
with various project in different themes you're able to go back and forth constantly and you mights learn skills that came only because a certain dedication to that certain theme / workflow / concept. skills you can use then in your other project / alias / aka.

don't be afraid of moving around projects.
working non-linear, more process oriented and not product related has freed up my mind more than anything else.


I use to be able to work like that when I was using software instruments and effects more often. I didn’t finish as much tho. Once I got back with my good friend and music counterpart we did all live take recording and mixing all analog. That was tedious but fun, yet impossible to move on until finished. Too many knobs!

Ironically, we have of late been experimenting with iOS and Ableton to write some more progressive songs for live performance. And the whole point of that I guess is to be able to skip around and play any of the songs at anytime.


i work on a desk too and with volatile memory for some of the devices.
so i bring an idea to a point where i have to record, and then a lot of
things are already pretty set as i i don't like to much working on the screen and overdubs are work intensive so i try to choose them carefully.
decklyn
If you're having trouble it can help to drop in a finished piece and copying the structure.
Then you can focus on the creative parts without trying to worry about the structure.

I race to complete. Thats my trick. Get it done, post it, move on. Ive been writing quite a lot of music lately despite how busy i am otherwise.
calaveras
whinger wrote:
I started by uploading weekly to Instagram. Then once I got comfortable with that, I took the best of those one minute songs, extend them to full length. The during some time off from work over the holidays, I released the ones that worked as an EP.

I find little goals that add to each other, to be the best way to trick me into doing productive work. So the one minute thing is pretty easy to do, then only the best get worked into full length, which is easy, because they're the ones that excite me. And so forth. You can eat the whole elephant, you just do it one bite at a time.

I did something similar for a while back in Myspace days. (remember Myspace?). I used to post a song to my band/solo project profile ever week. Kept that up more or less for about 5 years.
Now that I am going back through the recordings and organizing it, I had a pretty good ratio of trash to treasure. I'd say at least a third are worth releasing on their own merits. And another third are at least interesting filler. The rest are just noisy, wanky garbage.

I have kept productive, such that I am writing and recording a little bit every day. But damn, the sheer number of things I have littered across two computers and my hardware set up is daunting. For instance. I came up with a really savage beat last year. Recorded some bass guitar and synths on to it. And did a rough mix. Very nice in a post punky industrial rock kind of way. Then I got busy with work and forgot where I saved it!
So my only option is to go through all the other projects on my trashcan mac and finish them until I cross paths with this mysterious number that I can't recall the name of. Which is motivation in itself.

One thing that I have noticed, which is a shortcoming of being a solo electronic artist/musician producer who self records. Back in the day there would be track sheets that went along with each project. These described things like which mic is on which instrument, and what track on the multi it belongs to. Sometimes even including all the info about the outboard used in the mixdown.
This was the job of the assistant engineer or 2nd assistant or tape operator.
When you work by yourself, you dont take notes. You just keep working until you are burnt.

I think moving forward I am going to start dropping simple track notes in to each project folder. And probably start making folders per year, and even per quarter. It's just too much of a mess now!
This may seem kind of like extra work. However, most of my sounds are coming from hardware sequencers, eurorack and monosynths. Of course I'll never get that modular patch back. But sequenced stuff on my Elektrons. There is no reason I shouldn't be doing a better job of saving those patches and patterns.
StateAzure
I can't recommend FAWM (February Album Writing Month) enough! I just did my 8th FAWM and it's been incredible for me for figuring out how to finish tracks, plus the community there is really amazing.

Until I joined FAWM, I really struggled to finish anything. One major part of that was because I was previously using Cubase, which I struggled with due to it being bloated, unstable (At the time) and not very speedy with its workflow (moving to Studio One Pro was a big help). FAWM though it was really pushed me to stop procrastinating and just find ways to finish tracks FAST, without worrying much about production quality etc. I think the challenge and the limitations really help in this regard, and if you're somewhat successful, you'll hopefully walk away with your own little tricks and perhaps new workflow process for getting shit done.

Quality and production can always be sorted out later.

PS. When FAWM month isn't running, I still procrastinate unfortunately hihi Haven't found a solution to that yet!
Standup
FAWM taught me how to finish stuff too. 14 songs in 28 days requires you to figure out how to take an idea, develop it to it’s conclusion, and move on. More than half of what I do in February during February Album Writing Month is silly or limited in scope or didn’t rise to what i had hoped for and I won’t revisit it.

But 1/3 or so are pleasant surprises, songs that have a future.

http://fawm.org/fawmers/standup/
StateAzure
Standup wrote:
FAWM taught me how to finish stuff too. 14 songs in 28 days requires you to figure out how to take an idea, develop it to it’s conclusion, and move on. More than half of what I do in February during February Album Writing Month is silly or limited in scope or didn’t rise to what i had hoped for and I won’t revisit it.

But 1/3 or so are pleasant surprises, songs that have a future.

http://fawm.org/fawmers/standup/


There's also 50/90 which begins in July if I remember. I don't find that quite as much fun and inspiring, but if you like FAWM and want more it's worth trying. 3 months of intensive song writing is a bit much in one go for me, but I still give it a shot and end up with some half-decent usable tunes usually.
Standup
In 50/90 there’s a lot going on in the summer. I usually end up with 5 songs in 90. Or maybe 20. For me FAWM is more intense and focused. The goal of 90 songs in the summer just seems unlikely, I have too many other things going on.
Andrew Montreal
I recall someone quoting Stravinsky on the topic of completing music (though I can’t confirm that it was a legit quote). The idea still stands though...

Obstructions. Place limitations on yourself when you begin working on a piece. They can be random limitations such as: I will only use three instruments; this piece will start slow and have one fast section at the end toward which I will build; the musical progression will be such and regardless of what is inside those chordal movements, those will move change; so on.

I have found it helpful. I just completed a score where the instrumentation was limited to trumpet, piano, bass, guitar, marimba, percussion. It was so much easier to complete because my creative side wasn’t being sidetracked with, “Oh, wouldnt it be cool if I added a Minimoog drone here?” or “A wall of saxophones... that’s the ticket!”
jensenluxvid
Forcing yourself to finish it in just one day. This makes you plan out what you are doing in such a way that the goal is actually achievable. I've produced the most when I followed this rule, but I don't always. I also have all sorts of jams that I meant to edit up later into songs, but never did.
mentalu
When I was starting out I found it helpful to visualize my favorite songs and look at their structure. Looking for patterns.
calaveras
Usually the best stuff happens when you are not being overly precious about your work. Just spit it out.

For example, I usually get the best notes when I arbitrarily pick a scale I know very well and play 'random' stuff while being very particular about the rhythm I'm playing.
Of course a human chemical machine is not capable of generating truly random output. The random notes I play are being picked by me, just not in a deliberate way.

I have no problem coughing up endless good snippets of music. And even constructing songs of them.
The hard part is finishing the mix!
Now which EQ to use?
thevegasnerve
calaveras wrote:
Usually the best stuff happens when you are not being overly precious about your work. Just spit it out.

For example, I usually get the best notes when I arbitrarily pick a scale I know very well and play 'random' stuff while being very particular about the rhythm I'm playing.
Of course a human chemical machine is not capable of generating truly random output. The random notes I play are being picked by me, just not in a deliberate way.

I have no problem coughing up endless good snippets of music. And even constructing songs of them.
The hard part is finishing the mix!
Now which EQ to use?


Yeah as I crank out more stuff, I find myself worrying more about the mix/mastering than just making songs. I turn over the mastering to someone else now so that helps my process.
slumberjack
thevegasnerve wrote:
calaveras wrote:
Usually the best stuff happens when you are not being overly precious about your work. Just spit it out.

For example, I usually get the best notes when I arbitrarily pick a scale I know very well and play 'random' stuff while being very particular about the rhythm I'm playing.
Of course a human chemical machine is not capable of generating truly random output. The random notes I play are being picked by me, just not in a deliberate way.

I have no problem coughing up endless good snippets of music. And even constructing songs of them.
The hard part is finishing the mix!
Now which EQ to use?


Yeah as I crank out more stuff, I find myself worrying more about the mix/mastering than just making songs. I turn over the mastering to someone else now so that helps my process.


idk but nowadays a lot of people think mastering is something to do by themself. of course when you make dance tracks and you want to check them in your next dj set, you can put them trough a pseudo mastering rack in your daw, or if you put together a podcast and you want to blend unreleased stuff into it.

there's one saying that i learned from an older guy in engeneering:
if you master you own mix, you will repeat what you have done wrong.
it's important to have another pair of ears to correct those things.
even if everythings perfect with the mix, there's still some gain at this stage.

regarding this you're on the right path.

-

time passing i tend to be more and more precise with mixing from start on.
it get to the point that in every stage i work on a song / structure i do a little bit of mixing. from the initial patch, down to the final recording af a multitrack arrangement. eq on here, volume adjustment there.
next investemt on this site would be a better mixing solution. thinking to start a 500er rack with nice channel strips for the more important tracks. then maybe replacing the 40ch soundcraft desk with two racks sitting on a table. i guess it's still way cheaper than going for a descent desk.

but first the thing that would really help now, would be to patch the insert points on the desk in a patchbay, so it allows me to intuitivly work with fx / pedals before recording so i don't have to overdub or using itb fx later.

because then again, working with fx also leads you to the problematic zones of a speficic track / patch and then you're still in the position to change rather to correct (especially with dynamic content) and then it's time you save on the not so fun part and precision you add to the overall sounddesign.
unexpectedbowtie
I've never really had too much problem finishing songs. Starting them when I don't feel inspired tends to be the hardest part.

Like some other folk, I release music under a few different names, and confine those 'projects' to general groupings or styles. That way I can float between them as I feel motivated to use different gear, rather than feeling like an album becomes a ball and chain.

If I leave a song half done and start something else, I'm unlikely to ever go back and find the zone for that track again, so I tend to work on something to completion (or at least to a decent mix), and then move on. I keep notes on the tracks that are 'finished', and export them to a playlist which I listen to fairly regularly. When I feel like I've got enough tracks for an album, I go through and mix/master them all as a group. Having an album to aim for is especially motivating for me.

In terms of the writing process specifically, in the past I have always gotten the sounds and track pretty much as I want it, before recording as much as possible 'live' - especially when it came to Eurorack. This was always because I found the whole process of cutting up loops and re-arranging them in Logic to be fairly off-putting, and un-organic. However, lately I've found myself doing this exact thing, and having much better results. It means I take a bit longer to work on certain tracks, but I'm more pleased with the outcome. We'll see how long I can stomach spending that much time on the laptop mind you...

I'm actually tempted to get an ERM Multiclock so I can synch stuff up to my DAW far easier than my current method (cutting up the loops and manually arranging them). It's too pricey for me at the moment though...
Panason
Finishing tracks is my biggest problem. So much that I sometime think I should just give up and look into selling my sounds and loops for sample libraries...

At some point I have to face the fact that nothing will ever be 100% finished, force myself to record and resist the temptation to try a different compression plugin or cram another idea into the track. Just save that new idea for another track....
At least these days of short attention spans and self-publishing on bandcamp or whatever, releasing an entire album isn't necessary or even a good idea... unless you're really pumping the tracks out at a fast pace.
circadianeyes
I have this weird habit of writing about 85% of a song and then moving on to the next. I then get a collection of 85% done songs that I tell myself I can finish easily. Takes forever for that last 15% every time.
sd_falter
Its a tough one cos I feel everyone needs to find a process that works for them.

For me personally I found that I couldn't readily pick up a half finished loop or project after the first couple of sessions, hearing the same stuff over and over again eventually killed any passion for the project I was working on. I fought against my best instincts for a long time thinking that the goal was to break through that resistance and just keep finessing the same project, brute forcing it to completion. Of course doing that meant I hated any project that was completed that way through sheer over-exposure to it.

In the last year I decided I'd go back and completely clear out my project backlog, being super brutal and harsh and basically deleting anything that couldn't readily be redeemed, and quickly finishing up anything that was half decent so i could take any lessons learnt forward. After doing that I was free of the mental burden of trying to salvage projects that had been lying around for months or even years, meaning I could start to take a new approach.

Now I just try and work as fast as possible, get a nice atmosphere or loop going, immediately move on to blocking it out into an arrangement to see if it will still hold focus over time, then start on the details. I found that as long as I've blocked out the arrangement in the same session that I make the initial jam/loops it leaves me in a position where I can take it up again and do the additional polish and mix. Because that process of creation -> completion is so much quicker now also opened the door for me to make more random mistakes/experiments because I know that there isn't this long term commitment to seeing a project through.

Its cliched but just making a goal of finishing work no matter how average the end result and just closing the door on it was the biggest progression I made creatively.
Panason
Yep. Delete, delete, delete. If in any doubt just fucking delete it.
Arranging is a bit like EQing. Almost always it's better to cut than to add.
lisa
I've released four tracks this year and I'm aiming to keep up the one per month ratio. However, I have 20+ recorded modular beats laying around at the moment and I usually record at least three every month. I know I'll never get to finish most of them.

So, on another forum I asked if someone wanted to work with my recordings, to finish them for/with me. Many said yes, actually but one guy actually followed through. love I'm sending him renditions of the half baked tracks I record, he chooses the ones that he likes and I'll send him the separate tracks. Great results! With the tempo he's displayed so far I think that we could aim for a full album by the end of the summer.

Getting other people involved, I can't recommend it enough. nanners
ambientnoise
Sooo.. I haven’t made a single track this year.. I’m beginning to think I can’t appreciate my own creation cause everything I try to make isnt great. I always try to get too technical and experiment/noodle around until I try to find a sound I’m satisfied with, which then mostly ends up sounding like crap. Making simple beats, traditional structured songs is plain boring to me. I’m always in need to find the style of sound that I like, but now I’m getting way too frustrated! What to do??
pettycash
I have many, many unfinished tracks in Logic and Ableton.
Once I started building my Euro rack system it has definitely aided the completion of some of those unfinished projects.

Suddenly old tracks that were stuck in cul-de-sacs got new leases of life when adding modular sizzle on top - It is also presented new ideas on how to vary the existing sections too.

Don't delete those old tracks, give them a blast with that magic rack!
felixer
soundshaper wrote:
Finishing music really is all about hard work and dedication. However you also have to have a method and a plan.

that is one way. but much easier is to simply play. if you like it you keep it. if you don't just try again. me&my band we do an hour per day (at least). obviously those aren't popsongs with slick arrangements (yuk!) but they aren't 'jams' either. (wanna hear it: check under 'flexible outlook' on soundcloud) ofcourse you need good musicians who can translate an idea into reality fluently. and (esp in a 'live' bandsituation) you need to be able to listen.
we always play 'live', no overdubs and the sounds are always there. that saves a lot of time. there's no 'oh, let me try again' and there is no discussion about the mix. as a soundengineer who did tons of recording (mostly pop music) i noticed discussions eat up time very quickly. usually about things they could/should have decided on before even calling a studio. i have seen band fall to bits over a mix where i was quite clear what needed to be done. but one asshole wanted something that wasn't there or impossible and screwed it up out of arrogance and/or stupidity.
most studio work is under pressure of time, so a stable mind and some realism is essential. this bussiness is filled to the brim with unrealistic fuckers and posers. the 'big mouth, no content' types. they waste time (which i'm happy with as they pay me by the hour/day) and suck up everybodies energy. which i'm not happy with as i often see the good people suffering and not fulfilling their potential.
also some knowledge is usefull. make a little list of the things you find important in the genre your doing and spend your time on those. the rest is filling which usually takes care of it's own. and be realistic about your abilities. esp i popmusic simple is good. don't make things more complicated the they have to be. (eg don't try fourpart vocal harmonies if half the guys can't even get a simple line in tune. etc) and most importantly if something isn't working skip it. go to the next song or part. nothing worse then doing take 10 and seeing that it's simply not working. (eg i'm working with this girlsinger who is good but sometimes very insecure. i know that by take three we have it, with a bit of editing. but as we aren't working under pressure i'm happy to let het do 6 more takes. knowing i don't need 'm. if i were a commercial producer working in a rented studio i would never allow that).
read the book 'behind the glass' with lots of interviews with famous producers to get a feel on how things work. in reality. because that is where you live. hopefully.
ZLAL
Don't be afraid to step away from a loop, track, or patch for a while. Hitting record, allowing myself to unpatch everything, and returning a week or two later to material that I likely would have scrapped if I had tried to perfect it at the time has been quite helpful.
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