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Alternative Sequantizer
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Wiard  
Author Alternative Sequantizer
Llouwelyn
Hi, I'm looking for an alternative module Sequantizer for my futur system 300 please? What is your suggestion?

Thanks for reply.
J3RK
The Sequantizer is pretty powerful for a one-module sequencer. Are you looking for something to supplement one, replace it? Are you looking for something more random, or just more fully featured? (16 steps or something like that?)

There isn't another official sequencer for this format, so are you looking for something in another format, external, something converted to Wiard 6U, custom?

It just occurred to me that something like this might be nice with a Wiard 300 setup:

http://analoguehaven.com/futureretro/512touchkeyboard/
Llouwelyn
Yes replace it, not foncction random because there is Woggle bug for that, just sequencer/quantizer module maybe another formats yes, 6U module will be great for sure. Thanks
slow_riot
It's a very competitive market out there now and niche manufacturers need to be careful with how they use their limited resources or genuinely risk going out of business, or perhaps a trip to a psychiatric facility. Given the number of excellent standalone or euro sequencers on the market now there is unlikely to be the interest in a 6U seqeuencer to cross the threshold that will justify the risk and time required to bring one to market.

Aside from euro, I've heard good things from friends about Squarp Pyramid, and the Sequentix Cirklon.

Another option to explore is sequencing from Reaktor blocks, or Max/MSP. Most soundcards offer balanced inputs and outputs, and assuming they are DC coupled the only additional hardware you need to interface with balanced modules is a 1/4" TRS to bantam cable.
Llouwelyn
I don't want to return in the Euro-rack but your option from Reaktor is great.
Squarp Pyramide can be a solution also.

Thanks J3RK for your suggestion.
slow_riot
Llouwelyn wrote:
I don't want to return in the Euro-rack but your option from Reaktor is great.
Squarp Pyramide can be a solution also.

Thanks J3RK for your suggestion.


Yes it does somewhat defeat the purpose of a self contained instrument to recommend eurorack modules, but the commercial imperative means that modules outside of the euro format must be unique enough to draw people in.

Reaktor blocks is a gamechanger for me, especially with the ease of moving from a balanced module to a balanced audio device. Latency and user interface is a barrier to really complex cross patching between the 2 domains. But, say sequencing at the beginning of a patch, and processing like reverb or granular at the end is no trouble.
Llouwelyn
I have Gearbox for syncing Daw with Modular.
Maybe there is a solution with Matrix Mixer as Pseudo-Sequencer also.
slow_riot
Any soundcard can output a clock from an audio track.

A DC coupled soundcard can output 1v/oct. There are many Max/MSP, Max for Live and Reaktor patches that are designed to output scaled steps that can then be used by a module. Reaktor Blocks that was added to version 6 has been designed specifically to interface with the analogue domain. Here, I used the "8 steps" block to sequence my oscillators using an Echo Audiofire 4 and a 1/4" TRS to bantam cable.

johnnywoods
I've really enjoyed using the Koma Komplex with my wiard system. They play very, very well together.
sabasan
I think the best solution is just wait as most wiarder done in the past,
meanwhile get some euro as metropolis and rene with some utilities you can get close to sequantizer
Llouwelyn
I'm waiting to received my system 300, there are other solutions, but I will never go back to the Euro-rack. SlayerBadger!
dogoftears
hm, i always thought of the blacet frac stuff as pairing nicely with wiard. therefore i suggest hexzone and binary zone.

but yeah a koma komplex would perhaps be ideal.
J3RK
johnnywoods wrote:
I've really enjoyed using the Koma Komplex with my wiard system. They play very, very well together.


Nice suggestion. I almost forgot about that one. That would indeed be a great Wiard companion.
thee ghost ov n_phay
slow_riot wrote:
the commercial imperative means that modules outside of the euro format must be unique enough to draw people in.


I don't think it really matters how unique a module is, the scene as it is is such a monoculture that very nearly nobody gives one (1) fuck about anything that isnt a euro format module. It is a shame but that's the way it is.

If you want something in 300-format, then you'll have to DIY it yourself, there are no available options other than the sequantizer itself. I built for myself a 300 format version of Fonik's VC pattern sequencer, that's a pretty good piece, with enough differences from the sequatizer that it's worth adding to a 300 setup. the PCB is OOP but you may be able to score one from someone who has one but hasn't built it yet. there mey be other sequencer PCBs that can be adapted. Ken Stone's "Gated comparator" can be easily adapted into an 8-step sequencer with the ability to play more than one step at a time, I THINK it may be possible to adapt that into 300 format too, but haven't done that myself.

If you want a module but don't want euro, then Blacet's "Hex Zone" is a 16-step sequencer with 2 rows, 32 memories, chain memories, and the ability to act as a 16->1 or 1->16 programmable switch. Blacet gear has the same power requiremets as Wiard and some of John's other modules, especially the envelope generator and the programmable mixer work very well and are highly compatible with Wiard gear.

If a standalone sequencer is OK, then the Arturia Beastep Pro is very good, a lot of patterns and chains too, very easy to use, patterns are 16 x 2 each with a velo CV out as well as note CV and gate, also very cheap, a real bargain for what it does.

This is based on stuff I actually own and use, not supposition, I may not post much, but when I do, it's quality smile

BugBrand
thee ghost ov n_phay wrote:
I don't think it really matters how unique a module is, the scene as it is is such a monoculture that very nearly nobody gives one (1) fuck about anything that isnt a euro format module. It is a shame but that's the way it is.

If you want something in 300-format, then you'll have to DIY it yourself


I'd have thought Wiard could be one of the few formats (as lovely complete ecosystems) that can survive on a small scale. And the Stock List page maybe gives hope for a return of the Sequantizer, don't you think?

Quote:
Temporarily unavailable pending replacement with a redesigned module.


Its the only module that says that..
thee ghost ov n_phay
BugBrand wrote:
I'd have thought Wiard could be one of the few formats (as lovely complete ecosystems) that can survive on a small scale.



I hope so! it is a very ergonomic and pleasing format to use.
thee ghost ov n_phay
I hadn't realised that the Sequantizer was currently not available, sorry. I would wait for one, as it stands it's a really good little sequencer, I'm sure that any improvements Cary G might make will be very worthwhile, as they were on the Joystick controller thing.
slow_riot
BugBrand wrote:
I'd have thought Wiard could be one of the few formats (as lovely complete ecosystems) that can survive on a small scale.


Not what the job centre told me today about my business...

cry
flts
thee ghost ov n_phay wrote:
slow_riot wrote:
the commercial imperative means that modules outside of the euro format must be unique enough to draw people in.

I don't think it really matters how unique a module is, the scene as it is is such a monoculture that very nearly nobody gives one (1) fuck about anything that isnt a euro format module. It is a shame but that's the way it is.


I don't think that's a very fair assessment these days - even though Euro is the volkssynthesizer as the cost of entry is so cheap, availability better than I ever could anticipate a decade ago, and the options for both DIY and factory made modules are abundant, there are plenty of people fetishizing and lusting for eg. Buchla or Serge... and both formats are surprisingly vibrant as far as small 3rd party manufacturers and DIY projects go. Even 5U systems still seem to draw people in, because of the more pedestrian designs appealing to slightly less experimental synthesists (one of the local friends who hangs out at Music Tech DIY here builds a 5U system specifically because he's a professional keyboardist and more interested on the tonal / playable, the format provides a lot of "classic" Moog style stuff, and is big enough and easy to integrate to everything else...), ergonomics fit for people with large fingers (6U has even more space!), easy to fit DIY stuff in, et cetera.

Looking from a boring marketing standpoint, I'd say the Wiard system is a pretty difficult niche to sell - being on the Buchla / Serge end of the pricing scale but lacking the notoriety / history of those (or the association between 5U systems and Moog Modular...), being the only system with Bantam/TT as recommended connector format, having an idiosyncratic visual style, and other formats offering overlapping functionality looked from a boring "what does this module do other's cannot" standpoint. Buchla and Serge seem easier to "get" because any modular nerd will soon know what they are, what kind of design philosophy and aesthetics to expect, who the famous users are / were, and so on.

Myself, I still love my Wiard 300 system to bits, and the way it sounds and works fits me perfectly. But most everyone who has tried it has been pretty perplexed by the "pandora's box" style jackfields and the uniform arrangement of the controls making it difficult to learn to first actually use the modules at all, and then learn to do things in intuitive "eyes closed" mode.

I've found it pretty hard to convince anyone that it's actually something they should consider, as it's in many ways so idiosyncratic in its design but on the surface level offering nothing their euro modules wouldn't do (even if the ergonomics, specific combination of things and how things work and sound in practise feel pretty unique), and the cost of entry not being exactly cheap because of the quality.

On a positive note, I took my system to our last year's annual synth meet here in Helsinki and we built a patch that people could build on and listen to - at least it provoked several comments on the style of "what is this? I have never heard about the manufacturer, can you actually buy these somewhere? I couldn't figure out how it works but it sounds and looks superb!"
Llouwelyn
Quote:
"what does this module do other's cannot"


There is more elements to consider for that, Hinton PSU + Modules, Wiard conception, Bantam...
addendum
slow_riot wrote:
BugBrand wrote:
I'd have thought Wiard could be one of the few formats (as lovely complete ecosystems) that can survive on a small scale.


Not what the job centre told me today about my business...

cry


Ahem. Various different manufacturers over the years and decades have approached their module building business from various different angles. With due respect, you chose a particular heavy start for yours - in various respects, not just module design itself, but also in terms of the backup you had, the sacrifices you chose to make etc. Hence, with due respect, your frequent chiming in on Wiard topics, as knowledgeable as you definitely are, reads a bit off-topic and self-centered at times. (Edit: I mean mostly those times when it's something somewhat negative or deterring)

I wish Cary chimed in a bit more often on such questions, frankly and friendly.
The Sequantizer is a fantastic module. I hope that the "redesign" statement on the website denotes an actual process. I'd love to buy a second official Wiard sequencer.

Until then, to me FracRac seems the obvious way to go. Not Euro. Frac runs on the same voltage and connectors as Wiard 300, ergo not much new infrastructure is needed. The Blacet Hex Zone seems very interesting. I seem to recall a small sequencer from Metalzone also? And there were some Klee sequencers built to run off +/-15 V also. Maybe you can still get a kit.

Oh yeah, and there's Mini Waves to be had in Frac, which are absolutely essential for any Wiardo who didn't get to buy another Wiard fossile, the Waveform City. So, another reason to go Frac. If I wanted or had to DIY a sequencer, I'd do it in Frac.
addendum
flts wrote:
But most everyone who has tried it has been pretty perplexed by the "pandora's box" style jackfields and the uniform arrangement of the controls making it difficult to learn to first actually use the modules at all, and then learn to do things in intuitive "eyes closed" mode.

I've found it pretty hard to convince anyone that it's actually something they should consider, as it's in many ways so idiosyncratic in its design but on the surface level offering nothing their euro modules wouldn't do (even if the ergonomics, specific combination of things and how things work and sound in practise feel pretty unique)


You described it all quite well. My experience has been different. I lend some modules to a friend to go with his monosynth, for several months. He said he recorded a lot of stuff with that combo right away. I think it's true what was written in the EM review of the 300 series when it was new(-ish): it's not recommended as a synth player's only axe, at least for most people. But as an augmentation, it's... unsurpassed, in my opinion.

I think the "hardest" modules are the VCO (and Waveform City). These are where the layout really can be cumbering for new users.
I suspect the Wiard may be easier to use the more visually orientied a user is. For non-visual thinkers, what you said holds more true.

I think the difficulty is a good thing because it filters, in theory at least, serious from casual users, and one doesn't learn an acoustic instrument in a week, either. I don't like the Buchla approach of making everything as easy as possible, although it's a very valid concept and very well executed.

I seem to recall that Grant was really concerned about who'd buy his systems for actual use, at least in the early years. Maybe that also influenced his interface decisions. Speculating.
slow_riot
addendum wrote:


Ahem. Various different manufacturers over the years and decades have approached their module building business from various different angles. With due respect, you chose a particular heavy start for yours - in various respects, not just module design itself, but also in terms of the backup you had, the sacrifices you chose to make etc. Hence, with due respect, your frequent chiming in on Wiard topics, as knowledgeable as you definitely are, reads a bit off-topic and self-centered at times. (Edit: I mean mostly those times when it's something somewhat negative or deterring)

.


Yes, upon reflection I shouldn't have commented in this thread, only Cary is in a position to comment on the future of the module. My apologies.
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