MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index
 FAQ & Terms of UseFAQ & Terms Of Use   Wiggler RadioMW Radio   Muff Wiggler TwitterTwitter   Support the site @ PatreonPatreon 
 SearchSearch   RegisterSign up   Log inLog in 
WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

HD, PH, and DA - how to patch together?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> The Harvestman  
Author HD, PH, and DA - how to patch together?
kiddcabbage
Hey there.

I've had a Hertz Donut 2 for a while, really gritty motherfucker that I love. A few months ago, I finally picked up a Piston Honda 2 after a year of waiting and I've got my issues with it, but it has its place to me, but I just got in a Double Andore 2 today. This thing is absolutely amazing. The x-mod just makes this module to me.

My question though is, it was said that this was meant to be the voice controller for the HD and the PH, and when I use the DA for one of them I can get gnarly tones out of it, but trying to use both with it in conjunction, I am getting pretty noisey and unmusical results thus far.

What are some recommended ways to use these three modules together? Honestly the best results I've gotten thus far have been both HD oscillators in each signal in on the DA and leaving out the PH altogether.
hawkfuzz
Doesn't the PH work as a waveshaper as well? Why not put one HD voice through the PH into the DA and the other directly into the DA?
jjh
Set either PH or HD to LFO mode and use it to modulate the other. I use also Mutable Kinks as a rectifier in between to convert the modulator to 0-5V range.
kiddcabbage
hawkfuzz wrote:
Doesn't the PH work as a waveshaper as well? Why not put one HD voice through the PH into the DA and the other directly into the DA?


Yeah, that was one of my earlier attempts, but I have had a hard time getting anything other than very simple waveforms going through the PH without it just turning into noise.

Maybe I could have HD osc2 going through the PH waveshaper at audio rate, as a simple waveform, while also controlling osc1's waveshaper on the HD. That might get some cool internal stuff going on!
Baddcr
One of the things I like about these modules is that there are just so many ways to use them.

I find less is often more, okay they have a reputation for being gnarly and gritty, but beautiful sounds are possible too with consideration and a gentle hand wink

My best advice is to hook up an oscilloscope so you can see what is happening - it was when I did this that the modules really started to make sense and revealed their secrets as the truly versatile modules they really are.
hawkfuzz
You could put the PH in LFO mode and stick it somewhere as well...

I have a PH on the way so I'm not sure the best way to tame the beast but it does have a lot of noise coming out of it, which I imagine is partly due to 8-bit waves. Most people love the harsh IME tones which is why they get the modules. Maybe if you like smoother waves try the Erica Synths wavetable oscillator or the MKIII maybe...

I've only used wavetables in the Braids.
kiddcabbage
Yeah, that high end noise isn't what I'm talking about. I love that about the module. When I say noise, I mean things like feeding complex sounds into the ext in on the PH which is getting to places I don't think I can use.

Anyway, regardless; not exactly the tones I'm looking for. Any other suggestions for pairing the three modules together? Today I'm going to try HD osc1 into VCA 1 and osc 2 into PH ext in, into VCA 2. Maybe I could get neat results by putting PH int osc into the HD modulation bus, but I'm kind of expecting that to get real unmusical real quick. I do like the idea of having so many internal connections, though.
hawkfuzz
It won't happen immediately. Keep wiggling and you'll find it. I sometimes work on FM modulation for hours before it's what I want.
mt3
kiddcabbage wrote:
The x-mod just makes this module to me.


Om

This is one of the keys for me.
Looks like you're focusing quite a bit within HD or within PH, and haven't considered the DA as the adhesive.

Running the harsher PH wavetables through a lush reverb, such as Valhalla DSP's Z-dsp cartridge, is quite a beautiful taming of the shrew.
mt3
Also, looks like it's the PH that you'll have to "study" a bit more since it seems you have the hang of the HD and DA.

There's quite a bit of "magic" knob settings that don't necessarily correspond to reality with a descriptive interpretation...

* I tend to operate exclusively in "hell mode" (Discontinuity Mode is external, all axes selected).

* The PH is actually a "dual mono" oscillator. Always use both INTERNAL and EXTERNAL outputs even without an external signal plugged into EXT IN. Always.

* Turn attenuverter knobs without anything plugged into their associated jacks. Specifically the FM and FM CV jacks. Feed back the INTERNAL output to either FM or FM CV.
The FM CV input is a "unipolar, exponential frequency input" which dares you to plug in malformed AC/audio signals.
The attenuverter is extremely asymmetric in its effect on the signal. Extremely.

* Set GAIN to 7 o'clock (5%). Finely dial it in by listening to where the output is loudest. This tends to be g-spot #1 for me. Most tend to fish for unicorns at the other end of the rainbow.

* G-spot #2 is subjective. With Morph Discontinuity off (Morph Discontinuity knob fully to the right), the wavetable transitions are quite dynamic in level. With the knob in any lower position the dynamics are even, but much lower than when the knob is fully to the right. Choose either one, but try not to modulate between the two.

* Turning only one knob in isolation to "see what it does" is a waste of the module's time. The knobs are highly coupled together. Think of each knob having an x-mod normalized to every other knob. Morph Discontinuity and GAIN need to be adjusted together.

* That said, combined with the "dead spots" in EXT IN's GAIN, the extreme jumps in both timbre and RMS signal level, an LFO might not be the best modulation of the PH (though modulating the x/y/z axes is usually "safe").
williamjturkel
mt3 wrote:
Also, looks like it's the PH that you'll have to "study" a bit more since it seems you have the hang of the HD and DA.

There's quite a bit of "magic" knob settings that don't necessarily correspond to reality with a descriptive interpretation...


Thanks for these tips. Just got a PH2 and really liking it, but I am sure I’m just scratching the surface.
sackley
mt3 wrote:
*Snip* Amazing PH Tips


we're not worthy w00t

I've had this module for quite some time and you've given me some new territory and approaches to explore. I still feel like I've only used a small portion of it's potential. Seems like the above will open some new possibilities.
Baddcr
There needs to be a 'like' button here

Good stuff mt3 applause
the83
No DA on this track, but the only sound sources are HDmk2 and PHmk2:

[s]https://soundcloud.com/theronhumiston/close-to-home[/s]

The modulation osc from HD is FMing the Piston Honda and the main oscillator on the HD...and the output from the Piston Honda is FMing the modulation osc from HD. A Malekko AD/LFO is modulating the FM amount of each, as well as sweeping through the different waves on the Piston Honda.

After that, there's some Make Noise stuff: an Optomix was used for mixing the HD and the Piston, and then routed to an MMG. 2x pressure points + brains plays a slow sequence that's being sent to the cutoff of the MMG and the 1v/oct input of the modulation osc of the HD.

I let that run for 10 minutes without tweaking any knobs or anything. Reverb is courtesy of a Kurzweil Rumour on the "Immense Mosque" preset.
mt3
Also, the first thing I thought after reading the thread title was "Argos Bleak". It connects everything together...

Another "crossmodulation" trick from DA is to take the EOA/EODs while in LFO mode and plug them into a Miggs in "inverted co-opted symbol" mode, sending the gate aggregate into SHmk2's EXT Clk In (or any step sequencer).
mt3
the83 wrote:
No DA on this track, but the only sound sources are HDmk2 and PHmk2:

[s]https://soundcloud.com/theronhumiston/close-to-home[/s]

The modulation osc from HD is FMing the Piston Honda and the main oscillator on the HD...and the output from the Piston Honda is FMing the modulation osc from HD. A Malekko AD/LFO is modulating the FM amount of each, as well as sweeping through the different waves on the Piston Honda.

After that, there's some Make Noise stuff: an Optomix was used for mixing the HD and the Piston, and then routed to an MMG. 2x pressure points + brains plays a slow sequence that's being sent to the cutoff of the MMG and the 1v/oct input of the modulation osc of the HD.

I let that run for 10 minutes without tweaking any knobs or anything. Reverb is courtesy of a Kurzweil Rumour on the "Immense Mosque" preset.


Nice noise. Heard it a few days back.

A variant on this is to invert the FM operator chain "algorithm":
HD modulator -> HD primary -> PH
Also send the HD outs into PH's X Y and Z axes (audio rate timbre).
Mephitif
I remember reading somewhere that the hertz donut was based off the buchla 259. I didn't know shit about specific buchla modules so I looked it up, and also found out about the 259e twisted waveform generator which caught my eye. So this is my favorite thing to do with these three modules, which originated with trying to recreate what the 259e can do:

HD Primay OSC -> PH external in
PH Internal OSC -> DA In 1
PH External -> DA In 2

It's really simple patch, but when you start dicking around with the modulation bus of the hertz donut, and some supplemental patching like maybe running the modulation bus to the fm in of the ph, or to the x y z, you can get some really terrible sounding things. Sequence the two, and add some gates to the DA or just run them in LFO and patch the mix out to some reverb for some nice drones.

It's not quite like the 259e, but the mk3 version of the piston is promising. I'm interested in replicating this set up, but multing the primary osc of the hd to both of the oscillators of the PH MK3 running in external mode, and then modulating the xfade between the two outputs of the mk3 with the modulation bus out of the HD with the DA.
mt3
Mephitif wrote:
really terrible sounding things

You know the magic words of seduction...

Mephitif wrote:

HD Primay OSC -> PH external in
PH Internal OSC -> DA In 1
PH External -> DA In 2


w00t
mt3
Note the Discontinuity (waveshaper) on HD is wavetable-based when the Discontinuity button is in either RED mode (enharmonic wavetable) or GREEN mode (harmonic wavetable).

When the Discontinuity button is ORANGE, there is phase distortion applied between Modulator and Primary.
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> The Harvestman  
Page 1 of 1
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group